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The venerable Sporting News, which has become a better magazine recently with its move to a more feature-oriented bi-weekly publication schedule, has in its latest issue its annual MLB preview, including "Offseason Grades" for each big league club. Just four major league teams received a "D" -- the Twins, Astros, Padres and Pirates -- for their offseason work. There were all sorts of Bs, a few C's, some A's -- even an A+ for the Yankees.

Oh wait,. There was one "F" ... ladies and gentlemen, your Toronto Blue Jays!

Here's the entire Jays preview, brief but pointed ...



KEY ADDITIONS: C Michael Barrett, SP Matt Clement, C Raul Chavez, OF Jason Lane, DH Randy Ruiz, SS Brandon Fahey, SP Mike Maroth.

KEY LOSSES: SP A.J. Burnett, C GRegg Zaun, IF/OF Brad Wilkerson, OF Kevin Mench, RP John Parrish

WATCH OUT FOR: Barrett's list of recent injuries was extensive before he caught a foul ball to his face that caused multipkle fractures and ended his 2008 season in early July. He wasn't in high demand this offseason, but he still has offensive potential.

OFFSEASON GRADE: F

NOW HEAR THIS:
"Nobody wants to lose a guy like A.J. Burnett, who's out there every fifth day," says 1996 A.L. Cy Young Award winnfer and former Blue Jay Pat Hentgen. "It's a big blow. But what staff is better equipped to take it than the one with the best ERA? They have guys in the minor leagues who are probably going to get a taste of it this year. Then you add Matt Clement and Mike Maroth -- both have had some injuries, but also have been big league starters."
Sporting News crushes Jays' Offseason | 28 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mylegacy - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 01:41 AM EST (#196597) #
Oh, the shame of it all...all I can say is...that wasn't very Sporting of them.

On a brighter note, for some unknown reason I'm irrationally confident about 2009. Deep inside the thingy under my skull that passes for a brain I think we've got much better starting pitching than the Sporting News, and the rest of Christendom, give us credit for. Halladay, Litsch, Purcey, Janssen, Richmond, Clement, Cecil, Mills and McGowan - between those nine brawny arms I see 162 quality starts. Offensively - Rios, Wells, Snider, Lind, Rolen, Overbay, Hill and sundry others will strike fear into the hearts of men and make beautiful women swoon at even the mere mention of their names.

We may look like Rodney Dangerfield - but unlike that dude we deserve,  R-E-S-P-E-C-T (to quote Aretha Franklin). No question we gonna' kick some serious butt this year - let's just hope they don't kick back!

Alex Obal - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 02:01 AM EST (#196598) #
Ooooohhhhh, tough guys.

The Jays have a lot of reasonably high-upside players who stand to benefit from a full season with low pressure and low expectations. I'm thinking primarily of Purcey, Snider, Hill and League, and especially Purcey. In light of the strength of the division I think you could make the case that JP handled this offseason exactly the way he should have. But if all you care about when assigning Fs is that your one and only F team misses the playoffs...
Mylegacy - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 02:17 AM EST (#196599) #
Speaking of something completely different...KLaw over at ESPN says that Justin Jackson's upside is 270/350/450 with 10 homers and ++ defense...IF..."he can make more contact." He's also quite high on Cecil who he sees as, "a four pitch starter who misses bats and throws strikes with a pretty aggressive approach" because he's a converted college closer his only concern is will he have been stretched out enough to start now. He says his ETA is 2009.
zeppelinkm - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 08:47 AM EST (#196600) #

Heh. I think they are clearly just listing the players that left, but putting Wilkerson and Mench under any heading with "key" is wrong. Here is a case whereby these two "KEY LOSSES" as sporting news likes to refer to them by, will clearly result in a case of addition by subtraction.

I was going to post this after John Northey made his comment about the gap between Fernandez and Jackson at this respective point in their careers, when he posted their lines. The difference is exactly the ability to make contact. If Jackson can add .40 points of BA, he will be a very similiar player to Tony, albeit with slightly less on base ability and slightly more power. I'll take it!

Mike Green - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 10:22 AM EST (#196607) #
An A+ for the Yankees?  If Derek Jeter is their starting shortstop in 2009, they don't get an A+ from me.  To spend all that money, and still have a pretty fair chance at finishing third and missing the playoffs again, isn't really a mark of excellence.
greenfrog - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 10:40 AM EST (#196608) #
PECOTA is projecting 95.9 wins for the Yankees (and 98 wins for the Red Sox). Projected win totals for the rest of the division: Rays (91.3), Jays (81.2), Orioles (73.9).

I think JP's moves this off-season (or lack thereof) have been reasonable, considering his budget limitations. But those limitations have definitely dented the team's chances. Because of its roster construction (with players like Halladay and Wells), the team is going to need more money in 2010 and beyond to contend.
Ryan Day - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 11:02 AM EST (#196610) #
I don't know how the team gets an F - I'd think that would be reserved for teams that actively do something bad, not just a team that doesn't do much of anything. Though I suppose they might be penalized for not signing Texeira, Sabathia, and Burnett.

Speaking of Barrett, the Star has a quote from Cito suggesting the jays want a "catch-and-throw type of catcher". That probably knocks down Barrett's chances of making the team, unless he can rediscover his swing of a couple years ago - at which point he's perhaps a better option for the bench than Millar.

Mike Green - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 11:07 AM EST (#196612) #
Man, I like Cito.  Now, if he can get a bit adventurous and decide that the five man rotation makes no sense with the talent on hand, this will be a very interesting year.
zeppelinkm - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 11:44 AM EST (#196614) #

I also don't understand how the Yankees receive an A+. If the evaluation system is based purely off of the talent of players signed, sure. But does it take into account the Yankees seemed to have significantly overpaid for these players given whats happened tot he market? It doesn't seem to.  The Red Sox acquiring Baldelli, Smoltz, and Penny for a bag of peanuts and some crackerjacks seems much more astute to me than throwing $400,000,000+ at 3 quality players. In terms of future roster flexibility and market conditions, the Sox moves feel far superior to me.

In fact, it's only the Teixeria signing that seems to be a good bet out of the Yankees moves to return something close to the money spent.

John Northey - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 12:03 PM EST (#196615) #
How were those signings for the Yanks anyways.  Checking FanGraphs (yes, I love that site)...
  • CC Sabathia is listed as a $20+ million pitcher for each of the past $34.6 for last year and is signed for $23 mil a year for 7 years - he could be worth it but odds are that he'll be lucky to average it out over those years as he has only passed $23 million twice in his career (the last two years)
  • Teixeira is getting $22.5 per year for 8 years which he has passed once in his career - last year.  Just two other times has he reached $15 million. 
  • AJ signed for $16.5  a year for 5 years, a level he has reached twice in his career - last year and his final year in Florida - with two $11.8's in the middle.  So look for a big year from AJ in 5 years.
So, the 3 guys signed have collectively 20 years of contracts at levels they have reached just 5 times.  The Yankees clearly paid for peak performance but odds of getting that from all 3 I'd rank at a very low level. 
uglyone - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 01:38 PM EST (#196619) #

For me, the Blue Jays' season comes down to two simple questions:

 

1) Can the offense hit the whole year like it did under Cito and Gene last year? (and, more specifically, can Rios and Wells hit like legit middle of the order hitters like they did under Cito and Gene last year?) Because that was an above average offensive team once Cito and Gene took over.

2) Can we get average-ish 3/4/5 starting rotation slot production out of Purcey, McGowan, Richmond, and Cecil this year (the 4 starting rotation candidates that I personally have legit confidence in)? Because if they give us average or even just slightly below average production in those 3 slots, then along with the best starter in baseball and the best bullpen in baseball this will once again be a very good pitching staff.

 

I'm not going to say I'm overly confident that the answer to either of those questions in clearly YES.......but I do have to say that I don't at all think that it's an extraordinary longshot for both these questions to be answered in the positive.

And if they are indeed both answered YES, then this team has the potential to be pretty darn good.....and at least good enough to make a potential mid-season upgrade at least an interesting possibilty.

R Billie - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 02:51 PM EST (#196622) #

It's interesting PECOTA pegs them as a .500 team which is about what I figured.  A lot would have to go right for them to surpass that.

While on the surface Hentgen's comment may seem comforting, I think he forgets to take into account that the Jays have not lost just Burnett (which in itself is a pretty big deal) from the rotation but also Marcum and probably McGowan for half the year or more depending on his rehab.  The people stepping in to take their spots are all either young and relatively untested or recovering from very serious injury.

Meanwhile in the pen, Scott Downs is experiencing some arm discomfort in spring training after is performance faltered late last year under what I believe to be fatigue.  After major injuries to Ryan, Accardo, Janssen, McGowan, and Marcum, at some point you have to figure it's not just bad luck but a definate trend that may be stemming from the way these guys train or are used during the season.

For the relievers at least, I've been consistently cringing at the number of times I see relievers pitching three days in a row, 2 out of 3 days, 3 out of 4 days, or 4 or 5 times in a week.

Ryan Day - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 03:04 PM EST (#196624) #
Meanwhile in the pen, Scott Downs is experiencing some arm discomfort in spring training after is performance faltered late last year under what I believe to be fatigue.

That was, in fact, a badly sprained ankle.
Dave Till - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 06:30 PM EST (#196630) #
I think that the Jays will be lucky to make .500 - I figure it's 78 wins and fourth place, unless two or three starting pitchers suddenly ramp it up and the offense puts it together.

But I don't see how the Yankees are going to do that well. Sabathia replaces Mussina, and Teixiera isn't that much of an upgrade on Giambi. Burnett will improve them (though he won't have the Jays' defense behind him any more), but the core of their offense is old and old. Unless they stay healthy all year or trade for another star or two in mid-season, I predict 85 wins and no wild card in the Bronx.

timpinder - Friday, February 20 2009 @ 07:37 PM EST (#196631) #
I have to agree with Dave Till that the Jays will probably finish slightly below .500.  If they were in any other division they'd probably finish at .500 or with a winning record, but when about 30% of your games are against Boston, NY and TB, it's tough.  Of course, if everything goes perfectly they could make the playoffs, but I'm not betting on it.
Glevin - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 01:10 AM EST (#196638) #
"I have to agree with Dave Till that the Jays will probably finish slightly below .500.  If they were in any other division they'd probably finish at .500 or with a winning record, but when about 30% of your games are against Boston, NY and TB, it's tough."

I agree. I would see 75-80 wins as a pretty decent season for a team with this talent  Some good things will happen and some guys will break out and some may have a career year but some bad things will happen as well and guys will get hurt and under-perform. I think many on here overrated how good the Jays were last year because of putting way too much stock into the problematic pythagorean record, but they won 86 games last year and are considerably worse this year in a division that has improved. The Jays easily have one of the worst offenses in the league and after Halladay a rather sad rotation. I don't find knowing that the Jays are not going to win at all depressing.  I always find the joy of baseball is in the journey and the surprises anyway. The outcomes are largely predictable (Of the 8 playoff teams last year, only Tampa was really a surprise San Diego will be bad this year, the Mets will contend, etc..)   The joy is in the box score, the prospect whose swing makes us hopeful. Well, until there's a contender here that is.     
92-93 - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 06:43 AM EST (#196639) #
"but they won 86 games last year and are considerably worse this year in a division that has improved."

Considerably worse? Where? I'll recognize the loss of Marcum is huge (and Burnett's departure hurts too) only when you recognize the massive gaping holes in LF/DH from last year's team.

LF - .258/.325/.384
DH - .247/.325/.418

Now, obviously there's no lock for an improvement there, but wouldn't you say on paper that Lind and Snider represent upgrades there?

I just don't see how this team is considerably worse from the one that severely underperformed its Pythag last year.
Dave Till - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 08:12 AM EST (#196640) #
Lind was .282/.316/.439 last year, which isn't much of an improvement on Wilkerson/Mench. He's young enough to improve, but those aren't good numbers for a left fielder. His destiny is to be a left-handed spare part - if Eric Hinske can stay employed in the major leagues, Lind certainly can.

Snider has unlimited potential, but he's a year away, I think. Both Lind and Wells had a "speed bump" year after jumping up several levels in one season, and I suspect that Snider will too. Pitchers haven't found the holes in his swing, and he hasn't needed to adjust at the major league level.
zeppelinkm - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 08:15 AM EST (#196641) #

I think having an excellent defence coupled with an excellent bullpen will help the Jays tremendously out-perform expectations.  The Jays don't need 6 or 7 breakout offensive performances to have an average offence. An "up" year from Wells, and a breakthrough from Rios along with any of Hill, Lind, Snider, or Rolen being significantly above average will do that, I think.

I'm envisioning the Jays surprising most people and winning 83-85 games.

zeppelinkm - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 08:31 AM EST (#196642) #

You can't compare Lind's overall line to the line 92-93 posted for LF and say it isn't much of an improvement, because Lind's production in LF is a significant part of that overall line.

Consider:

Wilkerson: .216/.297/.332  OPS+ 68
Mench: .243/.321/.357  OPS+ 81
Stewart: .240/.325/.303  OPS+ 69

Lind: .282/.316/.439  OPS+ 99

The production we got out of non-Lind LF last year was truly abysmal. Just having Lind in there for a full season would represent a significant upgrade to our offence even if he just simply reproduced his exact line from last year  for the entire season. Keep in mind he is also just entering his age 25 season (you did acknowledge this Dave). The time is now, if he's going to take a step forward and become a good MLB starter.

DH production (primary sources)

Matt Stairs .250/.342/.394  OPS+ 96
Frank Thomas  .167/.306/.333  OPS+ 71

Not as much of black hole of terrible production, but still, even Snider a year away is probably a pretty safe bet to provide something like a .250/.325/.455 line (I don't think that's a ridiculous statement, and infact is probably underselling him), but even that still would represent a significant upgrade over the production we got out of DH.  This is a crude analysis, obviously, as Stairs played only 75 games at DH and a few in the outfield as well.  But considering we trotted Eckstein out to DH on occasion, and Barajas as well, the guys who made up of the rest of the DH AB's probably bring down the overall line from what Stairs was delivering.



 

timpinder - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 08:56 AM EST (#196643) #

I'm very worried about Adam Lind as the regular DH, since he struggled in the role last season:

Lind as LF:
.292 / .331 / .450  (OPS+ 107)

Lind as DH:
.231 / .242 / .385  (OPS+ 64)

That's a huge difference.  Were his struggles because of the move to DH, or did Lind just go into a slump anyway, and that slump just happened to coincidentally coincide with Snider's promotion and Lind's move to DH?

ayjackson - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 10:16 AM EST (#196646) #
I think Lind's performance had little to do with the position he was playing.  He seems to be a streaky hitter and got cold in September, when Snider was here.  He was already slumping in August, prior to the move to DH.
Chuck - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 10:43 AM EST (#196647) #

[re Lind] He's young enough to improve, but those aren't good numbers for a left fielder. His destiny is to be a left-handed spare part ... Snider has unlimited potential, but he's a year away, I think.

I agree with Dave on both assessments.

Some cannot resist the temptation to lump Lind and Snider together (two young left-handed hitters), but these two are very different animals. Lind is almost five years older than Snider. Turning 26 this summer, he should, theoretically, be on the precipice of entering his peak years. He could well elevate his game to the next level, but his ceiling may well be competent major leaguer rather than star performer. Snider, of course, is very young with many more developmental years lying ahead, most (all?) of which will take place in the majors. It is difficult to not project stardom in his case, though I'd prefer to see his baptism by fire commence in 2010.

timpinder - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 11:47 AM EST (#196649) #
I'm sure some or most are optimistic about Lind's future in the majors because of his very strong minor league history.  He sports a minor league line of .318 / .380 / .509.  That's very impressive and I'm hoping (and predicting) that those numbers will start to translate into a productive major league career.  Someone wrote here (I think it was Mike Green) that you can expect a 30 point decline in most major statistics when transitioning to the majors.  That still suggests a .288 / .350 / .479 line, which would be just fine.
Dave Till - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 04:48 PM EST (#196653) #
My biggest problem with Lind is his low walk totals, both in Syracuse and in Toronto. And there's nothing he does exceptionally well, except perhaps hit for average: he doesn't have exceptional power, he doesn't run well, he doesn't control the strike zone, and he isn't a particularly good fielder. Where's the growth potential there?

Or, to put it another way: what players who had minor league careers like Lind's have gone on to become quality regulars?

He could improve and become the next Frank Catalonotto (which would be quite useful). Or he could regress and become the next Robert Perez. Being left-handed helps him.

(Mind you: his numbers look a lot like Kelly Gruber`s, and Gruber had one really good peak year. So you never know. But Gruber was a better athlete than Lind is.)

zeppelinkm - Saturday, February 21 2009 @ 05:30 PM EST (#196654) #

I don't think anyone here is advocating that Lind will be an all-star. Those hopes have faded rapidly since his first September call-up. My assertation the entire time has simply been that compared to what they trotted out last year in LF (Wilkerson, Stewart, Mench), Lind represents a significant upgrade, even if he doesn't improve at all.

I'd still really like to see them sign a guy like Alou, just so that they can keep Lind in LF and out of the DH spot, and allow Snider to polish up for a few months before being unleashed on hapless starters across the American League.

 

 

 

christaylor - Sunday, February 22 2009 @ 12:02 AM EST (#196660) #
Lind's 90-percentile PECOTA projection is 307/.362/.531 - so take that for what it is worth. However, without even looking it up, I'm pretty sure the PECTOA projections beat Wlkerson & Mench easily. Lind's 60-percentile is .276/.330/.467 - which beats Wlkerson & Mench, of course, but it is also would be a line that I think the team could win (at least as many games as last year) with that from our LF/DH. Also Lind's two year plus minus is -2, so it is hard to make an argument that Lind will hurt the team on defense - average in LF is fine with me as any better than average fielder in LF is a bit of a waste.
Rich - Monday, February 23 2009 @ 10:25 AM EST (#196686) #
I think a bottom 3 of Lind, Barajas, and Snider are likely to form a reasonably productive trio but I think the larger question is the one BP raises - are the Jays' best players good enough to form a championship-calibre core?  If you took the career years from Wells, Rios, Rolen, Hill, and Overbay then I'd say yes, but given the inconsistency of this group it's more likely that 2 of them will have excellent seasons, 2 will miss a lot of time and 1 will play below his peak level.  If that's the case the team is going to continue to struggle offensively.   It's absolutely imperative that Wells play 150+ games this year since he has the best chance of any Jays' hitter to put up monster numbers.
Sporting News crushes Jays' Offseason | 28 comments | Create New Account
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