Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - 2009 Hall of Fame Ballot

2009 Hall of Fame Ballot

Figured this hasn't received a thread, so why not? What better thing to get debates going than the good ol' HOF.

This years ballot is a very short one, just 23 players - the smallest in history.

• Harold Baines
• Jay Bell
• Bert Blyleven
• David Cone - Blue Jay in 1992 and 1995
• Andre Dawson
• Ron Gant
• Mark Grace
• Rickey Henderson Blue Jay in 1993
• Tommy John
• Don Mattingly
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris Blue Jay in 1992/1993
• Dale Murphy
• Jesse Orosco
• Dave Parker Blue Jay in 1991 to end his career
• Dan Plesac Blue Jay in 1997-1999, 2001 and 2002
• Tim Raines
• Jim Rice
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell
• Greg Vaughn
• Mo Vaughn
• Matt Williams

Many are going to be one and outs, but the guy getting in for certain is good ol' pain in the butt Rickey Henderson. 3000+ hits, just shy of 300 HR, 2000+ walks, 1406 stolen bases, 2295 runs scored. Just a wow all around. He was viewed as a HOF'er almost from day one and kept building on it. Still seems weird that he was briefly a Blue Jay.

First timers also include Ron Gant, David Cone (another ex-Jay), Jesse Orosco, Dan Plesac (another ex-Jay), Mo Vaughn and Greg Vaughn (cousins), Mark Grace (most hits in the 90's), Matt Williams (could've broke the HR record in '94 if it wasn't for the strike), and Jay Bell.

Jim Rice and Tommy John are on the ballot for the final time with Rice likely to get in and John not - the opposite of how I'd like it but such is life.

Over 50% last time were Rice (72.2%), Dawson (65.9%), and Blyleven (61.9%). Two guys were in the 40's - Lee Smith and Jack Morris. In the 20's you had John, Raines, and McGwire. Everyone else was too low to expect to ever make it via the writers (even though Alan Trammell deserves it and Dale Murphy is a better candidate than Rice imo) with only Baines below 10%. Baines just barely cracked the 5% level last year (what you need to stick) - if he had 2 fewer votes he would've been removed. Should be interesting to see if he stays around for the 2010 ballot.

So, my ballot (if I had one) would be Henderson, Blyleven, Raines, McGwire, John, Trammell with a 'nice guys deserve a vote too' sent out to Dan Plesac. Dawson I could be talked into due to my Expo fandom but only after Raines gets in. Cone & Smith are my 'tempting but nah' guys. Rice, Murphy, Morris and the rest just are not HOF'ers imo but belong in the Hall of Very Good players.

Posted by John Northey on Monday, December 01 2008 @ 02:22 PM EST.

2009 Hall of Fame Ballot | 23 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

TamRa - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 03:15 PM EST (#194478) #

Raines is my pet pony here. No way he gets in in the same year as Henderson (the comparisons are too easy) but I do want to see him at least get up over 50% and establish a "growth curve" that will lead to his eventual election.

Very few of the rest do I care about - they are either "obviously not" or "borderline"

Mike Green - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 04:19 PM EST (#194480) #

My ballot: Henderson, Raines, Blyleven, Trammell, John.

KL - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 05:21 PM EST (#194482) #

Ditto.

christaylor - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 06:40 PM EST (#194484) #

It is an absolute travesty that Blyleven isn't in the Hall. Hopefully he and Rickey get in this year. Dawson and Rice shouldn't be in the Hall although I wouldn't be upset if they were.

kevinm - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 07:14 PM EST (#194485) #

wasn't Dave Parker a Jay at the end of one year. I'll be it very briefly. I vaguely remember that

MrPurple - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 07:16 PM EST (#194486) #

Yep, 1991 but was picked up after the august deadline and was ineligible for post season play.

CeeBee - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 07:21 PM EST (#194487) #

My vote would be Henderson, Blyleven, Raines, John, Trammell, Dawson and McGwire. IMO the first 3 are no brainers and the others borderline but I like em so I would vote for em.

zeppelinkm - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 08:15 PM EST (#194491) #

I'd give a vote to Henderson, Blyleven, Raines, John, Trammell, Dawson, McGwire, and Murphy.

I'm really hoping the veteran's committee puts Dick Allen and Joe Gordon in. (Joe just because he was the starting 2B on my JG team. Yup, how do you like that logic???) But seriously, Dick Allen seems like a no brainer. He's one of the best hitting infielders the game has seen. And Gordon, from a statistical standpoint appears to be one of the best 2B ever. How was his D?

Nolan - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 09:58 PM EST (#194495) #

If I had a vote, my ballot would include Henderson, Raines, Blyleven, Trammell and McGwire.

It's interesting how many here would vote Tommy John into the Hall of Fame; I never believed that John was Hall of Fame material, but after taking a look at his BaseballReference page once again, he would be on my "could-be-swayed-to-vote-for" list. He had a very long career of above average quality and a nice group of prime years. He didn't have a great peak, but he is far and away a better candidate than Jack Morris - 1200 more IP and a 110 ERA+ vs. 105 ERA+.

David Cone would also be a borderline candidate for me, but if was to be inducted then so should Stieb, Saberhagen, Key and maybe Appier. I know that the Hall of Merit has voted in Stieb and Saberhagen, but I'm not sure if they belong....although, again, they're better candidates than the writers' favorite son Jack Morris.

John Northey - Monday, December 01 2008 @ 11:58 PM EST (#194498) #

Doh, totally forgot about Parker being here in '91. He skipped sitting on the bench for the first round of playoffs but said he'd sit there (unable to play) if the Jays made it to the World Series. Always thought that was a dumb blunder on Gillick's part - not getting Parker pre-September 1st. Considering our main two DH's were Rance Mulliniks (92 OPS+ well past his prime) and Pat Tabler (63 OPS+)...brrr...they shared DH duties in the playoffs with Joe Carter getting in twice (Mookie Wilson played in the outfield those games). Parker hit 333/400/444 in very limited playing time pre-playoffs.

AWeb - Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 07:48 AM EST (#194501) #

In my order: Henderson, McGwire (I don't begrudge his election at all), Raines, Blyleven, Trammell, John

Last on - Tommy John, who I don't think gets enough credit for being a pioneer (surgery) and being remarkably consistently above average (17 straight ERA+ seasons at 100+, including both sides of his surgery). Not a great peak, but one hell of a plateau.

Last Off - Jim Rice - Just don't think he was good enough - he was only in the top 5 OPS+ (a rough measure, admittedly) twice, finishing 6th 3 times. That's impressive for a catcher or middle infielder, but for a corner outfielder? His teammate Dwight Evans was better (defense, greater weight on OBP in the same OPS+), but didn't get a sniff.

Timbuck2 - Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 08:24 AM EST (#194503) #

Looks like the Future of the blue jays without Ted Rogers begins today...

http://money.canoe.ca/News/Sectors/Entertainment/2008/12/02/7605606-cp.html

rpriske - Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 08:41 AM EST (#194504) #

• Harold Baines
• Bert Blyleven
• Andre Dawson
• Mark Grace
• Rickey Henderson Blue Jay in 1993
• Mark McGwire
• Dale Murphy
• Dave Parker Blue Jay in 1991 to end his career
• Tim Raines
• Alan Trammell

Obviously I'm a 'big hall' kind of guy.

Chuck - Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 08:43 AM EST (#194505) #

Ted Rogers has passed away. I'm sure this warrants its own thread.

John Northey - Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 09:43 AM EST (#194508) #

'Big hall' guys will have nightmares in a couple of years. If the steroid stuff keeps strong with the writers we could have a ballot in 2014 with Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Bonds and Palmeiro all eating up a chunk of the vote (seems 25% of the voters have no problem with steroid use). Mix in other 2007/2008 guys like Mussina, Maddux and Glavine (looks like Glavine and Maddux are retiring too) and you got one full ballot. Given the 'speed' of the HOF Raines could still be kicking then, Trammell would be on his final ballot (I think), Lee Smith might still be getting around 50% of the vote, and I suspect Grace will probably stick around (most hits in the 90's). Add in anyone else who is added to the ballot but not voted in between now and then and you will have more than 10 (arguably) worthy candidates.

I wonder if by then they'll adjust the 5% rule as I doubt they'll want to see guys who really deserve to get in being kicked off that fast (Lou Whittaker should not have been a one and off guy imo).

Nolan - Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 05:26 PM EST (#194520) #

Amen, John. If I had had a vote, Lou Whitaker would have been near the top. Nineteen seasons at second base with 3 GG`s, 2300+ hits, 1300+ runs, 200+ homeruns and a 116 OPS+. That is a Hall of Fame resume.

Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 05:47 PM EST (#194521) #

blyleven, henderson, mcgwire, raines, trammell... and I'd write in Lou Whitaker if I could

John Northey - Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 06:17 PM EST (#194523) #

Maybe the vet committee (however it is set up by then) will put Trammell and Whitaker in together, as it should be, in 2016 or thereabouts.

Trammell: 110 OPS+ at SS with great defensive rep
Whitaker: 116 OPS+ at 2B with great defensive rep

Career Tigers who played together from 1977 to 1995 with Trammell getting in one extra year in 1996. Always thought of them as HOF'ers during their careers. No idea what the writers are/were thinking when it comes to these two (let alone the way they keep voting for Jim Rice, a slugger who couldn't reach 400 HR or 1500 RBI's, slugged 600 just one time-on the button, fewer 100 RBI seasons than Joe Carter, matches 100 RBI seasons with 'unfeared' Fred McGriff).

Mike Green - Wednesday, December 03 2008 @ 08:50 PM EST (#194544) #

Speaking of the VC, they have the ability to right a significant historical wrong. Bill Dahlen is on the ballot. If the VC does the job (results will be reported on Monday), that will correct one of the five worst omissions of the writers. They already got one of them (Arky Vaughan). Santo is on the other VC ballot, and if they summons him, that would be good. And if by some slim chance, the writers also realize the error of their ways and switch horses from Rice to Raines, the HoF will regain some of its lustre.

Mick Doherty - Thursday, December 04 2008 @ 04:33 PM EST (#194547) #

You know I see a list like this, I start doing roster calculations -- can this group ...? Let's see ...

The only problem is a complete lack of a catcher -- well, wait. We can avoid 120 passed balls per game by moving Dale Murphy back to his original position (did you know that?), as he caught 85 times over his first four seasons, all in the 1970s before moving to 1B then the OF, where he ended up winning five Gold Gloves. So, we have a Gold Glove winner behind the plate, voila! Sure, he won those GGs in center field, but still ...

I tried to go with the best player at each position -- with the exception of 1B where my Personal Bias places Donnie Baseball (Mattingly) ahead of the Incredible Bulk (McGwire). Aplogies to Andre Dawson, best player not in the starting lineup, and to Jim Rice who will probably make the HOF this year but who is also not in the starting lineup. The bench lacks versatility, but hey, in the Murphy mold, Gant came up as a 2B/3B, played more than 200 games there early in his career, and McGwire came up as a #B, believe it or not ... so we do have some coverage of the infield.

I count 10 guys of the 23 on our "roster" below I'd rather see in the HOF ahead of Rice. I don't think they all should go in, but be that as it may. What do you think of this team? Would that not be the greatest pitching staff in the history of the game? A four-man rotation and a three-man 'pen and they'd still win 135 games in the 2009 NL West.

C Dale Murphy
1B Don Mattingly
2B Jay Bell
SS Alan Trammell
3B Matt Williams
LF Rickey Henderson
CF Tim Raines
RF Dave Parker
DH Harold Baines
Rotation: Bert Blyleven, David Cone, Tommy John, Jack Morris
Bullpen: Lee Smith, Jesse Orosco, Dan Plesac
Bench: Andre Dawson, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Mark McGwire, Jim Rice, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn

zeppelinkm - Friday, December 05 2008 @ 11:42 AM EST (#194565) #

Mick: It's great fun to look at the list of people who receive MVP votes in a given year and try to make a roster out of those guys. Typically there are between 24-26... normally you are short on the bullpen, but otherwise can normally put together a full team. The 1990 AL MVP vote getters would score a lot of funs.

Mike Green - Monday, December 08 2008 @ 03:20 PM EST (#194628) #

Well, the VC (pre-43) summoned Joe Gordon to the Hall and the VC (post-43) chose nobody. Gordon was a good choice, but his omission was not on the level of Bill Dahlen. Ron Santo is still waiting.

If you want to know who the best players in the game are, you can still skip Cooperstown and instead wander off to BTF's Hall of Merit pages. Don't get me wrong, Cooperstown is great and you can enjoy taking a mock swing in front of Babe Ruth's locker with your kid or niece/nephew or whatever, as long as you don't obsess about whether someone is in or out of the Hall.

Mike Green - Tuesday, December 09 2008 @ 03:22 PM EST (#194662) #

Congratulations to Tony Kubek, the recipient of the 2009 Frick award.

2009 Hall of Fame Ballot | 23 comments | Create New Account

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