Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

I'm at the ballpark, going through the Game Notes...

Here are the Jays leaders in starts by position in 2008:

C - Barajas (90)
1b - Overbay (141)
2b - Inglett (54)
3b - Rolen (105)
ss - Eckstein (56)
lf - Lind (66)
cf - Wells (92)
rf - Rios (85)
dh - Stairs (75)

Wanna know how many games that lineup has started this season? Of course you do!

One. This one, with John Parrish as the starting pitcher.

Incidentally, it's possible but unlikely that either McDonald (49) or Scutaro (45) will catch or pass Eckstein for starts at shortstop.

Posted by Magpie on Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 06:52 PM EDT.

Strange But True | 36 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Chuck - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 07:27 PM EDT (#192548) #

The game notes make any mention of Purcey's shoe size? I'm setting the over/under at 17.

Magpie - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 08:16 PM EDT (#192550) #

Bigfoot wears size 18 - I'm told he gets his shoes from a clown down the street.

Someone was just showing me the Washington Nationals Media Guide. It runs 492 pages, and exactly 2 of them cover the Montreal Expos. Walter Johnson is apparently more central to this franchise's history, even though Johnson actually played for a different franchise, now playing in Minnesota.

lexomatic - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#192551) #

Magpie.. i hope the guide at least covers the other washington in between (texas).. i mean if you're going to do one you need the other for consistency.
seriously though.. 2 pages to the expos? is that team records?

Magpie - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#192553) #

We're trying to figure out if "Rocky Cherry" is a better name for an ice cream or a stripper...

We work very hard here, sometimes.

zeppelinkm - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#192554) #

It's got to be an ice cream.

I mean, think of the implications...

ayjackson - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#192555) #

According to JP on WWJP, Janssen will be fine. He said this very confidently and said he had a "very minor procedure". He's throwing now only 6 months post Op. Very good news.

zeppelinkm - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#192557) #

Not that this is strange but true... but it was certainly said, TSN insider Steve Phillips was just commenting on Mike Lowell's injury, and said he is the greatest defensive 3B in the history of the game, and then specifically said, better then Brooks Robinson.

I know Lowell is extremely well regarded defensively - but best ever? Really? Is he even the best 3B in MLB right now? Better then Rolen?

Twilight - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 11:52 PM EDT (#192562) #

Lowell is a very good defensive 3B, but better than Robinson, Schmidt, and Rolen? Not sure about that.

whiterasta80 - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 08:18 AM EDT (#192565) #

He may be better than Rolen now, but if we talk about primes, my limited exposure says he isn't better than Rolen, Schmidt, and Eric Chavez. Robin Ventura was also a very good defensive 3B, as was Chris Sabo in his limited time with the Reds, though I would say Lowell is about equivalent to those two.

Can's speak to Brooks Robinson, Ron Santo, Buddy Bell (really) or anyone else in the discussion- but I think its safe to say that Lowell is NOT the greatest defensive 3B ever.

Rich - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#192567) #

Greg Nettles deserves to be mentioned too.

ayjackson - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#192568) #

Pedro Feliz is better. His bat sucks, but that's irrelevant to Mr. Phillips' assertion.

92-93 - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#192569) #

I've watched quite a bit of Mets/Phillies action this year, and I don't think Feliz is even better than Wright.

Bid - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 01:40 PM EDT (#192574) #

I guess I can understand why Phillips would make the assertion about Lowell...purely based on fielding percentage:

Lifetime fielding (all positions)

Lowell .975, Robinson .971, Brett .970, Rolen .966, Boggs .965, Matt Williams .964, Schmidt .961

Is the 14 percentage point difference between the Mikes enough to confirm that Lowell is better defensively than Schmidt?

John Northey - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#192576) #

An easy stat to check for defense is RZR (public and easy to find).

Lets check Lowell vs the two most recent Jay third basemen. For 2004-2008...

Lowell: 654, 728, 765, 732, 759
Rolen: 758, 794, 767, 742, 743
Glaus: 765, 713, 687, 706, 706

So, over those 5 years Rolen beat Lowell in this stat 4 times, while Glaus led just once (just 165 innings that year for Glaus though).

Now, this is hardly a be-all and end-all thing, but it is worth noting that Lowell isn't necessarily the best in his own division let alone in baseball history.

Now, Lowell does lead MLB at 3B this year in RZR (Rolen is 3rd). Since 2004 for all of MLB the best recorded is 801 by Adrian Beltre in 2004. Lowell's best ranks #9 among qualifiers in that time frame. FYI: The worst is Ryan Braun in 2007 at 564 while Hinske's 2004 season is down there too.

The problem is most reporters pick one stat and live and die by it. I am bad for using RZR too much, but find it a pain to get detailed stats for other measures other than fielding percentage. If Lowell was the best all-time though I'd suspect he'd be dominating a stat like this though.

jmoney - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#192578) #

Rolen is the best 3rd basemen I've seen. I'm not sure but I believe SABR guys have Rolen as the best defensive third basemen of all time. At least in some metrics.

John Northey - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 05:04 PM EDT (#192579) #

Yeah, Rolen's defense is something else.

Checking the RZR for Rolen vs Glaus, the last two years are amazingly consistent with Rolen being 742 vs 743 and Glaus being at 706 both years. If we use that difference, 36.5 points, how many plays does that add up to?

In 2007 with the Jays Glaus played 928 innings with 204 balls in his zone.

In 2008 with the Jays Rolen has played 932 innings with 206 balls in his zone.

Wow, now that makes comparisons easy eh?

In 2007 Glaus reached 144 of those balls in zone, plus 48 outside of it. He also started 21 double plays.

In 2008 Rolen reached 153 of the balls in zone, plus 45 outside of it. He also started 13 double plays.

Interesting. So Rolen made an extra 9 outs in zone, but had 3 fewer outside it while starting 8 fewer double plays.

Given balls that get by a third baseman can become doubles easily I like the 6 extra direct plays value over the 8 fewer double plays (which are more conditional on who hit the ball and two other fielders normally) but the spread is sure a heck of a lot less that I'd have expected to see.

Spookie Wookie - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#192581) #

I know it's totally unfair, and actually fairly ridiculous, to judge a player's fielding based on one game -- but after seeing Rolen last Friday against Boston, I would have a hard time accepting that he's the best ever. Definitely one of the worse defensive performances I've ever witnessed in a Major League game, though it was admittedly also the rainiest game I've ever been to, which probably didn't help.

Anyway, came across on old blog post that has Brooks Robinson as the best defender (any position) ever, and Rolen as the best run-saver among active third basemen. Kind of interesting:

http://skyking162.com/2008/01/fun-with-historical-fielding-numbers/

92-93 - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#192585) #

Spookie, I was sitting two rows up just to the left of the Jays dugout, so basically right next to Rolen and 3B. Man was that game ever painful to watch. He made 2 errors, let a hit go by him for no apparent reason, and misfielded a groundball that was called foul (so no error). The drunk Sox fans were really letting him hear it, and I felt bad for the guy - his 7 gold gloves meant absolutely nothing on the night that was arguably the most important game of the Jays season.

Spookie Wookie - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 07:36 PM EDT (#192586) #

92-93, that's funny, I was sitting behind you, though way further from the field (up in section 31). Red Sox fans are certainly not shy about expressing their elation when an opposing player messes up.

I've been to two Jays games this year: that one at Fenway, and another at Yankees stadium. The one against the Yankees was the weekday afternoon game where Barajas horribly misplayed two balls to help keep the Yanks in it, and then Giambi hit a walk-off homer off Ryan.

Maybe I should just stay away.

John Northey - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#192590) #

Given that Barajas is gone for the rest of the year would you call up another catcher for the last week just so Cito has that third option late in a game (especially with Thigpen around)? If so who?

Top 2 prospects Jeroloman and Arencibia should stay away for now as they don't need to be on the 40 man this winter. That leaves only Erik Kratz with experience above A ball on the team (Al Quintana got into 3 games in AAA but was in A+ the rest of the year). Kratz has been around for 7 years, hit decently in AA/AAA this year (847 OPS in AA, 797 in AAA) and will be a minor league free agent this winter. I say give the guy a call, let him sit on a ML bench and get into one or two games, allowing Cito to run for Zaun and hit for Thigpen. Won't cost the Jays a lot, would increase their odds of resigning him for AAA/AA duty in 2009 (organization guys are useful to help keep prospects from being pushed too fast) and would just be a nice thing to see.

electric carrot - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#192591) #

OK I'm starting a fund to keep Spookie Wookie away from Blue Jays games in 09.

China fan - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 11:43 PM EDT (#192594) #

Sounds like the news on Marcum's injury is going to be bad. Surgery possible. No more talk of trading Litsch, please.

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080918&content_id=3504529&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

92-93 - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 02:50 AM EDT (#192595) #

My two games at Yankee Stadium were Opening Day (first sitting through the rainout in the freezing cold, then the game the next day) when Halladay lost 3-2 to Wang (April 1) and then the game before the start of the 10 game winning streak when Burnett lost to Pavano (August 29).

Combine that with this past Friday night in Fenway, and maybe I shouldn't be making these trips. 0-3 on the road is just brutal.

timsevs - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 08:31 AM EDT (#192597) #

Why do people keep suggesting to trade Litsch - he is only 23 and has had pretty good season. He seems to have improved from last year, surely a very positive sign, better SO to BB ratio. Lower WHIP (1.28 vs 1.37), for comparison AJ is at 1.35. Also he seems to be underrated, another reason to not trade him as we probably wouldn't get too much.

Conversely if we trade anyone it should be Lind. He is 25, he has improved but is probably never going to be much better than an average player. OPS .782 this year. Also he seems to be rated fairly highly (Possibly too much so) and holds quite a lot of trade value so may help bring us a decent young SS.

Why not trade when the value is high for once?..

Wildrose - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 10:04 AM EDT (#192598) #

This could be a bad day in Jay land. Reading between the lines I'm fully expecting Marcum to possibly have T.J. surgery. Let's hope for some good news....

I�m sure Andrews is a really nice guy, but nobody wants to go see him. I�m not saying that Marcum will have to have ligament replacement surgery - I have no idea of knowing whether that�s true, though my sense is that it�s not unlikely - but if he does have to go under the knife for TJ, then we�ll see him again in Spring Training 2010, and what a shame that would be.

John Northey - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 10:10 AM EDT (#192599) #

timsevs, good points there.

Lind looked really good in the minors at times, but entering his age 25 season he has shown himself to be a league average LF. Odds are he'll have a year or two where he'll hit for a 900 OPS but his career should be as a 750-800 OPS LF which is average. Other teams might overvalue him though as he is 'young' and has 'potential'. He might just have the most trade value on the team right now outside of Snider (not counting Halladay of course).

Litsch is viewed as trade bait as he might be at his peak trade value too. Entering his age 24 season in 2009 he has a 116 ERA+ lifetime and looks very good at times. However, his K/game ratio is just 4.48 per 9 IP. Traditionally guys with K/9 IP ratios that low don't last long, with some obvious exceptions (and no, Maddux isn't one of those as his K/9IP is just over 6).

In truth, if JP is feeling brave this winter he'd look for a top shortstop and others via trading Lind and Litsch as some team would be bound to jump on it and it is possible JP would look like he made a steal in a few years.

Hmm. Maybe the gutsy thing to do (ie: go for it) is...
Trade Lind/Litsch for a high end (but $$$) shortstop
Put Snider in LF
Sign a DH
Re-sign AJ

The problem is that would add a lot to the payroll and I doubt Rogers would go for that.

More likely is...
Keep Lind/Litsch in LF/5th starter
Put Snider in as DH
Cross fingers that Marcum and McGowan recover or that Cecil is ready.

Wildrose - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 10:33 AM EDT (#192600) #

Blair ( good to see him back in the saddle) puts a price tag on a Burnett extension.

Based on an early reading of the market, one major-league executive told me this week that the Blue Jays will need to offer Burnett at least an average of $15-million (all currency U.S.) a year for at least the next four years or possibly closer to $18-million.

SK in NJ - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#192601) #

Anyone else feel the Jays should start rebuilding ASAP? If Marcum has to miss all of 2009, and if McGowan is out for an unknown amount of time, and Burnett is on the way out, then the Jays no longer have a playoff calibre pitching staff. That coupled with their bottom feeder offense and lack of financial wiggle room makes it a pipedream to compete with Boston, Tampa, and New York next season.

Halladay has the most value he's ever had. Wells has had a bounce back year despite injuries. Overbay has become good enough to trade in a pure salary dump. Ryan has established his value again. Now might be the last time the Jays have an opportunity to trade veterans on the high end of their value before the inevitable downturn once Halladay is free to go to a franchise worthy of having him. The team still lacks the high upside young talent, other than Snider, so trading the vets for young talent and getting some top 5-10 picks might be better in the long run.

Trade Roy for 4-5 prospects, Ryan for 2, Overbay for salary purposes, Downs for 2, and hope to god someone is willing to give a much shorter contract for Wells, and the franchise may start looking better long-term (but much much worse short-term).

Moe - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#192603) #

2009 could be 2006 all over again. Lots of runs and weak pitching.
I was getting optimistic that the Jays could actually be a good offensive club with Wells and Overbay fully healthy and Lind and Rios having good years and Rolen and DH not being black holes. I still think that could happen, but with no full rotation that won't be enough.

On the topic of resigning AJ -- I really hope the Jays don't commit 4-5 years at 15m, independent of the Marcum situation. As good as he has been this year, odds are very much against him staying healthy for a full season ever again. And he also doesn't strike me as a guy who would age well (aside from health)

John Northey - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#192604) #

Aaaargh. No more rebuilding from scratch!!!

OK, the Jays have right now... (age is for 2009, OPS+ career)
CA: Barajas: decent defense, 77 OPS+, age 33
1B: Overbay: top defense, 111 OPS+, age 32
2B: Hill: top defense, 96 OPS+, age 27
3B: Rolen: top defense, 124 OPS+ (103 in 2008), age 34
SS: McDonald: top defense, no offense, age 34
LF: Lind: solid defense, 97 OPS+, age 25
CF: Wells: decent defense, 109 OPS+, age 30
RF: Rios: top defense, 106 OPS+, age 28
DH: Snider: livable defense, unk offense, age 21

Shortstop and catcher are the only real holes on offense, the defense is scary good. This is not a league average starting 9, this is above average.

Prospects...
CA: 2 high end ones (Jeroloman, Arencibia) starting in AAA in 2009, a few decent ones in A ball
1B: hot prospect (Cooper) in AA for 2009 I suspect
2B: hot prospect (Campbell) in AAA for 2009
3B: nothing in AA/AAA
SS: see 3B
OF: he is here already

Pitching...
SP: Halladay - 'nuff said
SP: Marcum - injury issues
SP: McGowan - see Marcum
SP: Litsch - done well, but seems to be with mirrors
SP: Purcey - 'the girl with the curl'

Cl: Ryan - solid, but scary at times
RP: Downs - darn good, proven
RP: Carlson - darn good
RP: Tallet - solid
RP: League - seems to finally be here
RP: Frasor - respectable
RP: Wolfe - solid
RP: Camp - 8th man in a 7 man pen

Prospects...
SP: Cecil - 22 yrs old, reached AAA, burning hot prospect
SP: Mills - 24 yrs old, reached AA, hot prospect
SP: R.Romero - 24 yrs old, AAA, finally showing his stuff
SP: Richmond - 29 yrs old, more emergency starter

Now, what does this say? It says we have tons of talent just short of the majors and in the majors already. The Jays have an above average pitching staff, above average lineup (defense/offense mixed together) and weaknesses that are obvious at SS with nothing to replace it and at CA with some talent ready to step in. The rotation has the potential to be a quagmire depending on injury recovery by Marcum/McGowan.

Thus the Jays dumping all quality guys (Overbay, Ryan, Halladay, etc) who make any money then we'll be acting like the Expos used to. Far better to figure out how to fill the obvious holes (CA/SS) and to compliment the kids coming up (starting pitching, right handed DH/LF/1B) than to blow it up and go 'oh well' for 5 more years.

Ash's problem in the late 90's was not bringing in the help truly needed (2B was a deep hole waiting to open up, rotation has holes) and mis-allocating resources (keeping Alex Gonzalez when Batista was better, sending Tony Fernandez to Japan after a 124 OPS+ season, trading Green for Mondesi rather than addressing other needs, trading Wells for nothing, the horrid mid-season trade of 2000 for he who shall not be named that still haunt the Jays).

JP has to be careful not to repeat the mistakes of his predecessor this winter. Assess the weaknesses, check where no backups exist and build some depth. Don't do challenge trades (ala the Wells/Sirotka and Green/Mondesi trades) unless they are very one sided in the Jays favor. Don't keep guys likely to decline, or get in someone young who can replace them soon (Rolen and Overbay both are potential risks due to age).

The Jays are close, and the Yankees/Red Sox are both rich enough that any slumps won't last long thus taking chances now is far better than trying the Tampa method which sometimes works but requires a decade of being at the bottom of the majors to get a 2-3 year window of opportunity before the dumping begins anew.

Jdog - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#192605) #

Just 1 thing.

Brian Jeroloman is not a high end prospect. To call him a high end prospect, makes someone look like a real homer. So far in 75 AB's in AAA he is hitting a solid .200/.302/.227. His best season so far was at 23yrs old in AA where he put up a 270/396/416, Curtis Thigpen also in AA at 23 put up a 259/370/421. By all accounts Jeroloman's defense is much better, but to call the guy a high end prospect is foolish in my eyes. He may eke out a Kevin Cash type career if he is lucky(IMHO).

Wildrose - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#192606) #

The Globe is reporting that it's T.J. for Marcum. This needs it's own thread.

Ryan Day - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#192607) #

Litsch is viewed as trade bait as he might be at his peak trade value too. Entering his age 24 season in 2009 he has a 116 ERA+ lifetime and looks very good at times. However, his K/game ratio is just 4.48 per 9 IP. Traditionally guys with K/9 IP ratios that low don't last long, with some obvious exceptions (and no, Maddux isn't one of those as his K/9IP is just over 6).

There are enough exceptions to be encouraged, though. Litsch's k rate compares very well to John Garland (4.7/9) and Chien Ming Wang (4.03/9), for example, and Litsch has better control than either of them. He's also got much better control than the guy people keep bringing up as a comparison, Gustavo Chacin - Chacin had more Ks, but also more walks, which added up to high pitch counts and injury. Paul Byrd's a pretty decent comparison, as is Carlos Silva prior to the insane contract the Mariners gave him.

No one's going to confuse Jesse Litsch with Roy Halladay, but I don't see why he can't keep doing what he's been doing. People said "Sell high!" last year and predicted his inevitable implosion, but he lowered his WHIP and BB, and raised his Ks. He seems to be durable, as much as any young pitcher can be. I'm not saying don't trade him - if you get a good deal, trade almost anyone. But it may be time to stop trying to dump him and complaining that he isn't Dustin McGowan, particularly given that Litsch is younger, healthier, and the better pitcher.

Ducey - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#192610) #

Anyone else feel the Jays should start rebuilding ASAP?

Yes! Unfortunately, we will have to wait a year. This is JP's last chance year before he gets canned and he is not going to do a rebuild. Should he?

Lets see.

JP has built strong bullpens and will have one again. I think he could serve to trade Ryan to free up some money and get assets for elsewhere.

The Rotation is (as has been pointed out) now a mess. If they can't keep AJ (they can't) there are simply too many holes to fill. They will have Doc, Litsch and ?

With the bats, I can live with Wells, Rios, Overbay, Lind and Hill/ Inglett. Catcher is as likely to be a negative as a positive, SS is below average, Rolen is fading (when he can play) and Who is the DH.

A good bullpen, 2/5 of a rotation, and 4 holes in the offence does not make a playoff team (especially in the AL East) - even with good defence.

Conclusion: Trade everyone who is not a prospect or named Lind, Snider, Litsch, Rios, or one of the recovering pitchers. In 5 years the prospects will be ready, the high first round draft picks will be ready and the Jays can be the next Rays.

John Northey - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#192611) #

Good point Jdog, I did go overboard with Jeroloman. He had a fine year in AA but not AAA (didn't notice just how bad he did there, just looked at overall stats).

I think Jeroloman is better than Cash though. Cash, at 23, was in A+ hitting 283/357/453, thus a full level slower.

Y'know, double checking Cash's minor league stats they are a heck of a lot better than I expected. Below AAA he hit well but in few games (never more than 105 at any other level) with OPS of 780/810/851 from A/A+/AA then AAA was a disaster at 229/304/396 over 339 games and the majors is 184/248/288 for a 39 OPS+.

2009 is key for Jeroloman's career. If he learns to hit AAA quickly then he might have a ML future. If not then he probably doesn't.

I am hoping the Jays find a solid backup for Barajas as I doubt Jeroloman, JP, or Thigpen will be ready to backup in the majors early in 2009 but in 2010 the Jays have to think one of those 3 will be ready (JP most likely). If a solid ML catcher is available who can hit then go for it and figure the kids will back him up in 2010 and slowly take over after that. Otherwise go cheap and hunt down a real all-around shortstop plus (given Marcum is gone for 2009) a solid starting pitcher.

FYI: not counting Zaun here are the free agent catchers this winter (some have options)
Henry Blanco * CHC
Johnny Estrada WAS
Toby Hall * CWS
Adam Melhuse TEX
Mike Redmond * MIN
Ivan Rodriguez NYY
David Ross BOS
Javier Valentin CIN
Jason Varitek BOS
Vance Wilson DET

I-Rod and Varitek were great but are near their ends now I suspect and odds are wouldn't come here anyways (Veritek is a Sox for life if at all possible, I-Rod is going to be expensive and is a league average at best offensive nowadays). The rest are no better than Barajas. Any others to chase down?

JustinD - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#192614) #

Why don't we just re-sign AJ, sign Sabathia and Texiera and go from there? Oh wait, cause we're not the Yankees....

I guess next years rotation all hinges on the hopes that some of these things happen
1) Janssen can come back and can start (long shot since he's never been a successful starter in the Majors before)
2) That Brett Cecil is ready to start in the Majors and can go pass 5 innings
3) Mills can make a jump from AA to the Majors a la Litsch and that
4) McGowan comes back healthy in May and is a dominant #2
5) Purcey can find consistency

Then we're also hoping that...
1) Rios continues his resurgance- I'd say this is very likely
2) Wells and Overbay hit like they did in 2006- Wells much more likely than Overbay
3) Rolen finds the fountain of youth- I don't think he'll ever reach his 2004 numbers again, but he could be an .850 OPS player
4) Aaron Hill can come back from his concussion
5) Lind becomes a solid ML hitter- outside of his outstanding July where he had a 1.040 OPS he's had OPS of .739 and .667 in August and September
6) Someone can DH, Snider could be the answer here, but more than likely he will have his growing pains and
7) The massive hole that is SS.

This seems like a lot of ifs for next year. I might be leaning to the rebuilding option for next year. Trade Ryan, a 30 save closer could be a good trading chip, trade Downs, and trade Lind while his vaule is high. And *gasp* we might have to look into moving Halladay too. I just don't see how this team contends next year. There is nothing worse than being out of the pennant race in June, and that's how I've felt the last two years. You're either rebuilding or contending. The rest is pointless. This September has been a great month, but really, outside of that 10 game winning streak, we've been a .500 team or less. I don't think we should evaluate a whole year based on a stretch of 10 really good games.

That was a long rant. I really only meant to post the sarcastic comment about signing Sabathia and Tex. Sorry for that. Make me feel better guys. Rip that apart and tell me I'm wrong. I don't want Halladay to go.

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