Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
The women put up a solid effort, losing in the medal round to Australia but the men didn't make it that far.  At least the Jays won.


The women's softball team finished in 4th with a gutsy effort from Lauren Bay-Regula who threw a complete game but appears to have been left in too long (5 runs allowed has to be one of her worst results).  Still, at least they got that far.  The men are showing some life, going into extra innings against Taiwan.

The men were trailing 1-0, then leading 2-1, then trailing 5-2, then tied it 5-5 in the 7th, failed to score in the 11th (where they start with runners on first and second base).  The game is over now with Taiwan scoring in the 12th inning with the final 3 for Canada striking out with runners on 1st and 2nd, leaving Canada in 5th place (tied with Taiwan but get 5th slot due to run differential - Canada +9 vs Taiwan -4).  Japan was the only team to allow fewer runs than Canada but only China and the Netherlands scored fewer (Japan outscored Canada by 1).  But of course, if Richmond was there he'd have thrown two shutouts and put Canada into the medal rounds right?

As to the Jays, a 2-1 win over the Yankees is always fun - especially when it comes via an error ... er ... double.  Just adds salt into the Yankees 2008 wounds.
20 August: Olympic Baseball & Softball over for Canada | 24 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
John Northey - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#190979) #
Just for fun I checked attendance figures for the AL today.

Jays: 28,351 per game so far with AL East and Minnesota coming in later on, likely to boost that average a bit more.  Last year was 29,144 per game.

Rank: #7 out of 14, just behind Seattle at 29,314 and just ahead of Minnesota at 27,692.  The White Sox are at 30,521 while just below Minny is Baltimore and Cleveland both in the mid 26k area.  Well below the Jays is Tampa Bay at 21,492 with Oakland and KC both in the high 20k area.

Last year the Jays were #7, just ahead of Texas (29,060) and just behind Seattle at 32,588.  Tampa has improved a fair amount as they were at 17,131 last year.  KC also failed to reach 20k per game.

Thus the Jays are solidly in the middle, with a slight short at climbing one more notch (Seattle fans won't be coming in off the streets for that horrid team, while the Red Sox and Yankees will play a total of 10 more games here vs 9 against all others - the 3 vs Minnesota could mean something if this hot streak continues into Colorado territory).  Minnesota could catch up as they are fighting for a playoff spot but they have 6 vs the Royals which won't do wonders for attendance plus 3 Detroit and 3 White Sox games (those 3 should be near sellouts).
Chuck - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#190981) #
As to the Jays, a 2-1 win over the Yankees is always fun - especially when it comes via an error ... er ... double.

In what bizarro universe do we live when the second Damon non-catch is not an error? That was one sorry piece of official scoring.
John Northey - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#190982) #
The official scoring on Damon reminds me of what I've hoped MLB would get around to.  Adding a 5th umpire who would be in the booth above the field doing official scoring and instant replay.  Makes it far more equal for the scoring around the league (no more home town favorites) and makes it so the instant replay that Bud wants will be done by someone who has a strong interest in making sure the call is right and who would be respected by the umps on the field as he would be on the field the next game with them.  It would also speed up instant replay as there would be no need for consultation between the field and booth or confusion by the umps on the field about the call as they'd just talk to the booth guy after the game.

braden - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#190986) #

If I asked you which Toronto baseball columnist said this today, how many guesses would you need before getting it right?  Negative five guesses?

Considering on-base percentage more important than batting average is not baseball. Jack Cust has a better on-base percentage than Ichiro Suzuki, but who’s the better player?

Pepper Moffatt - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#190987) #
- Micah Owings has infinitely more homeruns than Brandon Webb.
- Ryan Theriot has 20 points of batting average over Hanley Ramirez

etc. etc.

John Northey - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#190990) #
Another random thought - how to tell it is late in the season, the Jays playoff odds (Baseball Prospectus) dropped despite beating the Yankees last night.  Their odds are down to 1.06%.  Back on the 9th was the last time they were over 2%, July 31st they were at 3%.  Got to go back to the day Cito started to get to 5% (June 20th).  Before that I suspect something was screwy as one loss on the 18th knocked them from 11% to 6% which seems a bit odd.  BP also says their odds were below 1% for the first time back on July 8th.

Fun to look at, although a bit depressing that, if the remaining portion of the season was played 100 times that the Jays would make the playoffs just once based on their method.  Of course, that also means we still have hope!
JustinD - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#190992) #
With all this Olympic talk going on here, there is an interesting article on SI about Olympic rosters here. Sadly, the writer failed to include what our Canadian roster would look like. Off the top of my head I can only think of:

C-  Russell Martin
LF- Jason Bay
SP- Rich Harden
SP- Jeff Francis

What else can we look forward to in our 09 WBC?

JustinD - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#190993) #
Oh, and of course Matt Stairs and world beater Scott Richmond...
Chuck - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#190994) #

Canadians in MLB

Another list (may be identical in concent)

92-93 - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#190995) #
If the Jays win with Purcey going tonight and earn the series win, I'd rather Litsch start tomorrow so Halladay-Marcum-Burnett get the Red Sox.
JustinD - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#190996) #
How could I forget about Morneau. Looks like the strength of Team Canada at the WBC, much like it was at the Olympics, will be in the pitching with Harden and Dempster a good 1-2, Bedard another option at 3 and Francis if we should need another starter. Don't know how many starters you really need in a tournament like that. The everyday lineup would have these sort of players...

C- Martin
1B- Morneau
2B- ???
3B- ???
SS- ???
LF- Bay
CF- ???
RF- Matt Stairs?? Can he even play the OF anymore?
DH- Joey Votto

Pete Orr, Adam Stern, Scott Thorman are other possible position players...Ryan Braun was born in Canada, but sadly not the Ryan Braun that is mashing for the Brewers but this guy.

John Northey - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#190997) #
Another useful link is http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/CAN_born_debut.shtml listing players born in Canada (thus missing guys born elsewhere who moved to Canada and became citizens, but still has the vast majority of guys) by the date they first reached the majors.   Provides a nice link to their ML stats from which you can reach their minor league stats easily.
Wildrose - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#190998) #
But of course, if Richmond was there he'd have thrown two shutouts and put Canada into the medal rounds right?

Too bad we didn't get to see what impact Richmond would have had, the loss of right handed shortstop Danny Klassen to injury was also unfortunate . Five close one run losses, very tough, every  little bit would've helped.

It's not as if there is one lone voice in the wilderness decrying Richmond's absence.

It's still difficult to wrap your head around the Toronto Blue Jays' calling up Richmond on the eve of the Beijing Olympics, effectively tossing a grenade into Canada's pitching plans. He is no prospect, this native of North Vancouver, B.C., and former Vancouver dockworker who honed his pitching talents in the independent leagues. Surely the Blue Jays could have waited longer to get a read on him — September, maybe — and surely there must be some other right-hander in the organization available. The Blue Jays can say they're still in the wild-card race even if they're not and it's okay to send the fans messages that you'll still be competitive, but bringing up Richmond accomplishes neither.

Also I don't think the boys when sitting around the bars in Beijing  re-hashing the tourney will be be singing a rousing rendition of  " Lets go Blue Jays"  any time soon.  

When asked for his reaction to Jays’ demotion of Richmond, who was originally targeted to pitch for Team Canada at the Olympic Games, Clapp stared at the reporter and said: ”No comment. No f---ing comment.”

The way this team hit in the clutch you'd think Gary Denbo, not Rob Ducey was the hitting coach. The hurlers however really did a fine job. A lot of these guys put their careers, in some cases on the line for this tournament, I respect this group.
 
Magpie - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#191000) #
That was one sorry piece of official scoring.

I'm told that it was reviewed again when the game was over - someone requested it, probably Veras or his agent - and he stuck with his ruling.
Dave Rutt - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 06:56 PM EDT (#191001) #
A great article on Josh Banks. I discovered it through a THT article on current MLBers who throw a knuckleball. Apparently, Banks throws one about 22% of the time, in addition to 7 other pitches.
John Northey - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 08:10 PM EDT (#191003) #
As I pointed out on BBTF Richmond would've had to win 2 games single handed, plus save 3 more runs on top of that for Canada to have made the playoff round.

Namely they'd have had to shutout the US and almost shut out Taiwan, or hold Cuba to 2 runs and Taiwan to 1 in order to have a shot at the playoff round (he couldn't have pitched in both the US and Cuba games).  Not an easy feat, or a likely one.  Especially for a guy who, so far, has 0 wins in AAA or the majors and is just 5-12 in organized ball.

This team had enough talent to make the medal round, but adding one more pitcher wasn't what would've done it.  Adding a hitter or getting a bit of luck is what would've done a lot more towards getting into the medal rounds.

Wildrose - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#191005) #
As I pointed out on BBTF Richmond would've had to win 2 games single handed, plus save 3 more runs on top of that for Canada to have made the playoff round.

John, I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion ? Overall plus/minus is not the first tie breaker. The first tie breaker is head to head competition. Earlier I said Richmond was going to start the Cuba game, I guess I was wrong. Elliott states in his article he was actually slated to start against the Americans.( his replacement Avery did instead) We'll never know how he would have done, maybe he gets bombed, perhaps he continues his hot AAA pitching (this is essentially an AAAA tournament )   and has the game of his life and shuts the Americans out over 7 innings, and our early 3 run lead holds up for a win. Instead of losing a meaningless game against Taiwan with our fate already sealed, maybe we win that game to.

A good start against the USA ( plus a win over Taiwan) (USA and Canada both finish at 4 and 3)
could  have put us through to the medal round as we probably win( against the Yanks) on the first two tie breakers (head to head and runs against). All this talk of yours about overall tournament plus/minus is not relevant. A two run swing  sealed this teams fate.

I'm not sure having Richmond would have put the team over the top, but it certainly didn't help either. Better clutch hitting and a little luck where also in order.

I guess the rabid blue Jay fan still clings to that 1% chance of winning and will never accept any roadblock to that end. The  nationalistic fan  of the Canadian Olympic team will never accept putting team before country. Trust me it's tough to be a supporter of both programs in a situation like this.

Still , this is once again lots of negative press for an organization that could  use  a little more good news.
Rob - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 11:49 PM EDT (#191008) #
Matt Stairs?? Can he even play the OF anymore?

Could he ever?

As for the infield, Klassen at short, Orr at second, Roglestad at third jumps to mind. And we can do better than Stern in CF. (What's that? We can't?) Thorman might be playable in left, but Thorman and Stairs in the corners requires O-Dog range out of Bay.

Or we can just fake a passport for Usain Bolt and tell him to run towards the ball if he has a glove on, and away from it if he doesn't.
Wildrose - Thursday, August 21 2008 @ 12:04 AM EDT (#191013) #

As for the infield, Klassen at short, Orr at second, Roglestad at third jumps to mind.


Rob, I think that's how it will play out quite frankly. Teahen could play third, but he was very poor with K.C at this position 2 years ago. If Bay could play centre ( a real stretch) , Votto who has played several games in the outfield in the minors might get Stairs in at D.H.  

You can have a roster of 30 for this tourney. Canada had 14 pitchers ( because of the strict pitch count rules) last go round. I'm sure Carlos Tosca would have wet dreams about having this number of hurlers at his disposal.
Wildrose - Thursday, August 21 2008 @ 12:07 AM EDT (#191015) #
Here's another good site in terms of putting together a mythical roster.
John Northey - Thursday, August 21 2008 @ 12:15 AM EDT (#191020) #
Ah, I thought the tiebreaker was just plus/minus.  Given that Canada, even winning both games would've still needed 3 or 4 more runs (I forget which) it made it almost impossible to catch up.  So what they needed was for Richmond to win both the US and Taiwan games, vs the 1 run loses in both.  Still a tall order. 

To me, counting on a guy who never played in the organized minor leagues before this season (not to mention using a coach at second and a guy who was retired as your left handed specialist in the pen) just states how low level the Olympic tournament really is and how desperate Team Canada was. 

Yes, leaving Richmond down so he could play for Canada would've been nice from a PR level (although if he was pulled mid-game due to pitch count restrictions I could just see the poison pens coming out in force) but a quick look at how the tournament turned out and knowing that odds were Richmond would've been left in t he minors for all of 2008 thus missing out on both a brief shot at the majors and a shot at the MLB pension money (qualified after 1 day in the majors, get a fair amount once you get to 43 days - used to be 4 years but was reduced - plus medical and the like).

Wildrose - Thursday, August 21 2008 @ 08:24 AM EDT (#191036) #
So what they needed was for Richmond to win both the US and Taiwan games, vs the 1 run loses in both.  Still a tall order. 

No they needed a quality start from Richmond against the U.S, say something along the lines of 7 innings and two runs against. Given how Begg and Johnson had similar starts against Japan and Korea, and both are considered inferior pitchers to Richmond, this may have happened. They also needed one more timely hit in any of their other 4 , one  run losses to pick up another win. My point is that the margin for error in this tournament was frustratingly very thin for Canada.

The argument  that pro sports teams should never say die has some validity. Is there anybody out  there ( beyond club employees) in the mainstream media making this argument? Not everybody gets their information from fan blogs. The Blue Jays brand is really being hammered in the broader world.
92-93 - Thursday, August 21 2008 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#191083) #
"The Blue Jays brand is really being hammered in the broader world."

No, it really isn't. Fans who are casual and stupid are the only ones who are even giving any Richmond/Canada angle to his call-up. These are the people who are going to go to their 2 games a year anyways and get a t-shirt and team hat, and then tell all their friends how bad JP is because he hates Canada and Richard Griffin said so. Knowledgeable Jays fans that come to read this site and are heavily attracted to baseball see right through media-created shenanigans like this, and simply do not care. You can keep arguing against it all you want, but calling up Scott Richmond for 3 starts was the absolute right move for the Toronto Blue Jays, and I am sick of your chirping otherwise. It's flat out wrong, Team Canada shouldn't be a consideration in Ricciardi's head - putting the best product on the field to win JAYS games should be, and it was, SO LEAVE HIM ALONE.
Wildrose - Thursday, August 21 2008 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#191095) #
SO LEAVE HIM ALONE.

What are you his mother ? Stop the personal attacks, I'm entitled to state an opinion without being called stupid. Frankly I'm sick of your in-ability to indulge in mature discussion about different viewpoints.
20 August: Olympic Baseball & Softball over for Canada | 24 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.