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The affiliates went just 2-4 on Sunday, blowing a bunch of late leads.  But, in more important events, Brett Cecil dominated for the first time in Triple-A. 

Rochester 0    Syracuse 2

The Chiefs only managed two runs on four hits in this one.  But thanks to Brett Cecil's best AAA start to date, it was more than enough.  Syracuse scored both of their runs in the fifth when Pedro Lopez doubled home a Travis Snider walk and a Curtis Thigpen single.  And, well, that was pretty much it.  Snider finished 0-for-1 with two walks. 

But enough of the offense.  The real story today was Brett Cecil.  Seeing Rochester for the second time in five days, Cecil dominated to the tune of seven innings pitched allowing just two hits and a walk while striking out six.  The win evened Cecil's Triple-A record at 2-2 and lowered his ERA to 4.91.  Jonah Bayliss worked the final two innings for his second save.

 

Altoona 5    New Hampshire 4

Oh, man, did the Cats ever blow this one.  Up 4-1 in the ninth, Jason Burch, making just his fifth appearance for New Hampshire was called upon to close things out.  Instead, he went and did the exact opposite, charged with four runs on four hits in just a third of an inng for a tidy game ERA of 108.00.  The guy most likely pissed off was Jean Machi who went the first eight allowing just an unearned run on three hits while striking out six.

Offensively, the Fisher Cats banged out twelve hits, led by Chris Gutierrez's three hit effort.  J.P. Arencibia managed two of his own including a double and an RBI.  Brian Dopirak knocked in two of his own, as well.

 

Clearwater 5    Dunedin 2 (Game 1)

Tied at 2-2 heading into extra innings, the D-Jays gave up a three-spot to drop the first half of a doubleheader.  Edward Rodriguez took the loss thanks to one awful inning in which he allowed three runs on four hits.  A.J. Wideman started and was fine, I guess, going five and allowing a run on five hits while walking two.

At the plate, nobody did much of anything.  Brad Emaus had a double, his 30th, yet oddly just his second during a day game.  Maybe he's a vampire or something.  Cory Patton had two hits while David Cooper went 1-for-4.

 

Clearwater 1    Dunedin 8 (Game 2)

The D-Jays got their revenge in the later-in-the-afternoon-cap thanks to Adam 'Ivan' Calderone and his two big flies, one of which was a Grand Slam.  All in all, Calderone had 6 RBI, giving him 33 on the year.  Cory Patton also went deep while Brad Emaus had two hits, including his 31st double on the year.  David Cooper was 1-for-2 with a double, walk, and an RBI.

Adrian Martin was on the mound for Dunedin and allowed one run on five hits and seven strikeouts in 5.1 innings.  Brian Pettway picked up his first professional save with 1.1 perfect innings.

 

Lansing 3    Fort Wayne 4

In what appears to be a pattern for the affiliates on Sunday, Lansing blew a late 3-1 lead en route to a 4-3 loss.  The Lugnuts managed just four hits on the day, two courtesy of Jonathan Jaspe who doubled and drove home two.  Manny Rodriguez drove in Lansing's other run with a double of his own.

Luis Perez was on the mound for Lansing and worked six effective innings, allowing a run on six hits while striking out five.  Then Michael Barbara came in and everything went to hell.  Barbara allowed three runs in the seventh for his second blown save and fourth loss on the year.

 

Auburn 3    Batavia 5

Auburn spotted Batavia an early five-run cushion and then probably wished they hadn't when they could only muster three of their own.  Adam Amar and Joel Collins homered for the Doubledays.  Other than that, a few other guys had a hit.

Joel Carreno allowed five runs on seven hits in five innings for Lansing.  Three relievers all threw a shutout inning each but the damage was already done.

 

GCL Blue Jays- Scheduled day off

 

Three Stars:

3rd Star: Jean Machi- 8 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 6 K

2nd Star: Adam Calderone- 3-for-6, 2 HR, 7 RBI (doubleheader)

1st Star: Brett Cecil- 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 6 K

 

Brett Cecil Finding Triple-A More to His Liking | 35 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
TamRa - Sunday, August 17 2008 @ 11:35 PM EDT (#190808) #
Brad Emaus is really putting himself on the radar in the second half.


Thomas - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 06:38 AM EDT (#190820) #
In Machi's last two starts he's pitched 14.1 innings with 12 strikeouts and not allowed a run. I guess maybe this is a hint of the talent that JP and the scouts saw when they decided to add him to the 40-man roster.
FisherCat - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#190834) #

In Machi's last two starts he's pitched 14.1 innings with 12 strikeouts and not allowed a run. I guess maybe this is a hint of the talent that JP and the scouts saw when they decided to add him to the 40-man roster.

Having seen Machi numerous times, including yesterday's start, the reason that the Jays' have him on the 40-man is much like why they had Tracy Thorpe on the 40: He can bring the heat!  He consistantly hits 93-96 on the gun, BUT as we all know, any good pro hitter can catch up to it eventually.  And I've seen nothing to convince me that he'll remain on the 40-man heading into spring '09.

China fan - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#190836) #
Also, Machi will turn 27 in a few months -- which is rather old for someone who's been stuck at AA for the past two seasons.
Thomas - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#190845) #
Don't get me wrong, I agree he doesn't deserve to be on the 40-man roster. I've criticised his presence on it for a long time now. My last MLU where he pitched I made some comment to that effect and I know I've made them in the past. A 27-year-old Double-A reliever is not a good use of a 40-man roster spot (barring a complete lack of organisational depth, which the Jays do not have).
FisherCat - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#190867) #

Machi's existance on the 40-man shows you the glaring weakness in the Jays farm system, which I've noted in the past, it is lacking some true "gunslingers".

Other than Brandon League, the Jays' have never seemed to take a flyer on a high-upside young pitcher that can throw 96+ MPH.  Unless I'm missing some guys buried in the minors.

Isn't there an old baseball adage that you can't teach a pitcher speed?

92-93 - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#190869) #
Thomas, what has Machi's presence on the 40 prevented the Jays from doing? You say it's a bad thing, so I would like to understand why - I don't really know the ins and outs of the 40.
whiterasta80 - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#190872) #

Also, Machi will turn 27 in a few months -- which is rather old for someone who's been stuck at AA for the past two seasons.

And yet most of us want to see the organization keep Dopirak...

whiterasta80 - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#190873) #

92-93 This wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_transactions has a pretty good explanation of most of the ins and outs of the 40-man. 

Seeing as we didn't lose anyone in the rule 5 draft last year (I don't think), I doubt Machi's presence on the 40-man had any effect. However if he stays there he could cause us to lose someone in the draft this year (for example if he stays on and Dopirak is not put on the 40-man).  I don't believe any of our big name minor leaguers outside of Dopirak and maybe Lydon (if you consider him a name) are at risk of being picked up- but you never know.

Ryan Day - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#190875) #
And yet most of us want to see the organization keep Dopirak

I haven't heard anyone suggest Dopirak be placed on the 40-man roster, though, which is the issue with Machi.
TamRa - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#190876) #

Also, Machi will turn 27 in a few months -- which is rather old for someone who's been stuck at AA for the past two seasons.

And yet most of us want to see the organization keep Dopirak...



Dopirak is 24




TamRa - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#190878) #
The reason the Jays could afford to carry Murphy and Machi this last year was because of the "valley" in the system between the good young players who had made the team (Hill, Marcum, Litsch, Janssen) or were close to it (Lind, Diaz, Purcey) and the players who were so recently drafted that they did not need to be on there yet.

There is, btw, NO 40 man roster crowding problem. They are at 38 right now with two on the 60-day. Add them back and it's 40
subtract the five free agents and it's 35
add the required young players worth protecting (Romero and probably Ray) and it's 37

Any trade you make will involve at worst a roster nuteral exchange of players

If you were to max out and sign a FA for all three weaknesses (AJ's job, SS, and DH) that would be 40)

It's very likely Frasor will be traded or non-tendered and pretty likely Tallet will be traded and if you get younger talent for them you may pick up a couple of spots

Murphy, at least, can't be seen as a keeper.

So there's not really a roster crowding issue this year.

As for Dopirak, his having been signed as a minor league free agent makes his status a bit more complicated than just putting him on the 40 man roster. According to my research, if a minor leaguer is released before he gets "six year minor league free agent" status a team can sign him for one year, or multiple years up to the point when he would have reached that status.If he's signed for more than one year then i THINK the can protect him on the 40, if not, they have to first re-sign him and then do so.

but he does have to be on the 40 to avoid the Rule 5 becausee have seen veteran minor-leaguers signed and then drafted before.

For the record, I'd rather have him protected than Machi.




Pistol - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#190881) #
what has Machi's presence on the 40 prevented the Jays from doing?

Josh Banks has thrown 78 decent innings (4.37 ERA, 89 ERA+) for the Padres this year.  I believe he was lost when the Jays picked up Mench and Wilkerson.  The Jays felt Machi (and Russ Adams) was more valuable at the time.
Thomas - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#190883) #
My issue with Machi was that I didn't think he was the most effective use of that spot on the 40-man roster. There were other prospects I'd have preferred to keep over him, including Lee Gronkiewicz, Josh Banks and Cody Haerther. Those are three names that immediately spring to mind that the Jays lost off the 40-man roster since the end of last season and who the front office preffered to remove from the roster instead of Machi.

Now, I don't think the results would have much different from what they are now. Gronkiewicz had put up very good numbers in Double and Triple-A for several years in a row, but the Jays didn't like him enough to give him anything other than 4 innings in 2007. He signed with Boston as a minor league free agent and continued his usual success, but unfortunately came down with an arm troubles early on and is out for the year. Banks was having a bad year at Triple-A before he was removed and isn't doing particularly well with San Diego. If the Jays had kept him, he'd have fallen behind Parrish and Richmond on the emergency call-up depth chart and would likely be coming off the roster at the end of the season anyway. Haerther was claimed back by St Louis and is having a miserable year at Triple-A. If the Jays had kept him on the roster, they'd likely remove him from the roster in the offseason, if they hadn't already.

The results likely wouldn't have been any different from what's going on now, but that doesn't mean the decision to keep Machi over those guys was the right one (or the wrong one). My issue is that if you give me a 24-year-old reliever who had a 56 K and 24 BB at Double-A  (and the previous year had 68 K and 37 BB at the same level) or a 28-year-old reliever who had 46 K and 6 BB at Triple-A and 37 K and 4 BB in Double-A in the same season (and the previous year had 33 K and 8 BB at Triple-A), I'll take the latter one every time, no matter how hard the first guy throws. The decision to keep Machi hasn't cost the Jays any wins, but I still don't think it was the right one at the time.
FisherCat - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#190885) #

WillRain, I agree that Dopirak deserves to be on the 40 more than Machi < see the parent club's offense for the reason ;) >

...And as for Josh Banks, I think we were all in agreement that he'd never survive in an environment like the AL East and that the Padres' scouts were right in taking a risk on him as most of his pitching would be done in the pitcher's paradise known as Petco!

MatO - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#190898) #

Honestly, the continous love of Gronk on this site has always been a complete mystery to me.  The guy has been available to every major league team multiple times.  You'd think the A's would have jumped on such an obvious market inefficiency.  He is minor league fodder.  That's all.  Now I know virtually nothing about Machi but I do know that the Jays know way more about their minor leaguers than I do even though I follow them as much as anyone.

On a different topic.  The Yanks failed to sign their 1st and 2nd round choices by the deadline.  Were the Yanks not willing to go above slot?

92-93 - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#190899) #
They were, and Gerrit Cole slipped all the way to them for that very reason. In the end he made the decision to go to UCLA, which is apparently death for pitching arms. You can be sure the Yankees would have done whatever it takes to not let their first round pick slip away.
John Northey - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#190902) #
From what I read it sounded like their first pick wanted to be college educated more than becoming a ballplayer.  I wonder if it is a case of a guy with all the talent but no desire to do what it takes to make the majors.  I suspect his family is well off too otherwise the cash would've been too tempting.  Still, good to see the Yanks lose out for once.
mendocino - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#190905) #

draft bonus money (totals from baseball america)

#1 KC $ 10,165,000 - unsigned 7th rounder

#2 TB $ 9,357,000 - top 10 signed

#3 BOS $ 8,990,000 - top 10 signed

#9 BAL $ 6,077,000 - 10th rounder unsigned

#23 TOR $ 3,589,500 - top 10 signed

#24 NYY $ 3,473,000 - 1st & 2nd rounder unsigned (comp for both??)

92-93 - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#190906) #
*Sigh* It mystifies me how a team with a 90m+ payroll can be do damn cheap when it comes to the draft. JP has no problem dishing out millions at projects like Ohka Thombrano or bench fodder like Stairs, Scutaro, McDonald, but he all of a sudden pinches pennies come draft time.
John Northey - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#190907) #
Actually, I don't recall a lot of talk of guys who slipped due to signability issues this year.  Last year there were many, but this year I can't recall any offhand.  Which guys who slid and got lots of cash would various bb people want the Jays to have taken instead of their early round picks?  On the surface to me it looks like the Jays just did a good job of negotiating with the players this year, unlike the Yankees who lost out on their early picks.
92-93 - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#190908) #
I'm not well versed in prospects enough to know the answer to that question. But if the Red Sox could spend way more than the Jays despite picking after them in the first round, it stands to reason they were taking more risks on higher ceiling players than the Jays were. That frustrates me, because the draft is the one spot where you can neutralize these teams' financial advantages.
Ryan Day - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#190913) #
Weren't Sobolewski and Thames considered tough signs this year? And last year they had to lure Eric Eiland away from a football scholarship.
CeeBee - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#190914) #
Maybe some draftees see the Jays as an easier and quicker way to the majors than Boston or maybe the Jays just did their homework better for once?
MatO - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#190915) #
The Red Sox threw a ton of money at Casey Kelly their 1st pick.  If he were considered to be that great he would have went much earlier in the draft and got his money that way.  It seemed to be a pretty crappy draft in terms of talent available in comparison to last year.  When the Jays picked they could have picked anyone for all I cared.  I had absolutely no preference as the prospects all seemed so blech.  However, they seem to have made a good pick in Cooper.
Ozzieball - Monday, August 18 2008 @ 08:26 PM EDT (#190916) #
*Sigh* It mystifies me how a team with a 90m+ payroll can be do damn cheap when it comes to the draft. JP has no problem dishing out millions at projects like Ohka Thombrano or bench fodder like Stairs, Scutaro, McDonald, but he all of a sudden pinches pennies come draft time.

With the exception of the Red Sox, the listed teams are all ahead of the Jays by how much they spent on their first pick: Hosmer, Beckham, and Matusz.  KC gets pushed to first probably by the money they spent on Tim Melville, who every team passed on at least three times.

Hell, the fact that the Giants shelled out 7 500 000 for Buster Posey and aren't at the top of the list is more of an indictment than the Jays landing at spot #23.

But hey, keep on hating on that machine.
mendocino - Tuesday, August 19 2008 @ 12:16 AM EDT (#190926) #

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/allstargames.jsp?mc=_nyp_08&sid=milb&sid=milb&sid=milb

New York-Penn League All-Star Team, for the Jays:

Robert Bell, Joel Carreno, Castillo Perez, Adam Amar, Michael McDade, Chris Demons.

two draft picks, two latin signings & two indy league signings...... Jay's scouts covering all the bases.

Thomas - Tuesday, August 19 2008 @ 06:14 AM EDT (#190937) #
The guy has been available to every major league team multiple times.

The same thing was true of Jack Cust. Has he not become a useful big leaguer? Brendan Donnelly didn't reach the majors until he was 30 and then for several years was Anaheim's best middle reliever. Jesse Carlson has been available to "ever major league team multiple times." And so on. All of these guys would have been dismissed as "minor league fodder" by many before their success. Also, Gronk was signed this offseason by Boston, which is clearly one of the game's best front offices. It's hardly an indictment that the Red Sox picked him up.

I'm not saying Gronk would have been the BJ Ryan or had a run like Brad Ziegler. But, he's had success at every level he's pitched and there's no reason he shouldn't have received a chance to get major league hitters out or at least been higher up on the minor-league depth chart than he was. I'd rather keep a guy with minor league success  (which includes very strong ratios, so it wasn't just smoke and mirrors) over a marginally succesful Double-A reliever. There's no reason Gronk couldn't have become a useful middle releiver. He's never received that chance (and might never recieve it depending on how serious his arm problems are), but neither had a bunch of other players who overcame people writing them off as "minor league fodder" before they became useful major leaguers.

Maybe Gronk would have come up and been rocked for three weeks. That's very possible, but I'd prefer to keep the guy who has had proven minor league success over a guy whose sole positive attribute seems to be "he throws hard." We likewise kept Tracy Thorpe around for a few years in hopes that he'd put it together and he never did and I have a feeling the same thing will happen with Machi. I would have also kept Banks and Haerther (at least) over Machi, but I would likely taken both off the 40-man at the end of this season, which is what I think will happen to Machi.
MatO - Tuesday, August 19 2008 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#190944) #
Gronk was simply on the minor-league merry-go-round like a whole pile of other players in the off-season.  I think you read too much into why the the Red Sox signed him.  I just don't understand why Gronk gets so much ink here when he might at best be a decent middle man.  Those guys are a dime a dozen.    The Jays have done a better job than most in identifying those types of guys (Downs, Tallet, Carlson, Camp, Wolfe etc) and they decided against Gronk.
Ryan Day - Tuesday, August 19 2008 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#190945) #
I tend to agree that Grokiewicz should have gotten more of a shot, but it's not like the Jays are afraid of unconventional pitchers. Ricciardi and co. have put together an excellent bullpen out of largely spare parts like Carlson, Tallet, and Camp, the dreaded "short righthander" Jason Frasor, and they've relied on guys like Marcum, Litsch, and Towers in the rotation. I think they've definitely shown a tendency to reward performance regardless of physical stuff or draft slot, a la Parrish and RIchmond.

Maybe Gronk would have been an improvement, but I'd say Ricciardi also deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to identifying bullpen talent.

John Northey - Tuesday, August 19 2008 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#190950) #
Gronkiewicz isn't a bad player, but who would you have cut from the Jays pen this year?

We have BJ Ryan, and Scott Downs who wouldn't have been cut.  Frasor, Accardo, Tallet had success before and would've been far higher on the depth chart.  Carlson, Camp, and League have been effective as has Wolfe.  Parrish was useful but mainly a starter.  Richmond was just a starter and the same for Purcey. 

Thus guys who we'd have said the Jays shouldn't call up before him are Benitez (8 games, 6 1/3 IP) and... er... maybe the 1 IP given to Wells (Rule V pick)?  Yeah, a bit much talk for a guy who would've been given, at most, 10 innings or a shot at Camp's low leverage 36 (and I doubt he'd have done much better than Camp has).
singlefather - Tuesday, August 19 2008 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#190951) #

 

" two draft picks, two latin signings & two indy league signings...... Jay's scouts covering all the bases."

Mendocino,

Do you have a link for the above ? The link you provided tells about the all star signings only, unless I have had not enough coffee yet..

.

Thomas - Tuesday, August 19 2008 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#190969) #
Gronkiewicz isn't a bad player, but who would you have cut from the Jays pen this year?

Nobody. My point was about the 40-man roster, not the 25. I would have kept him as an 8th or 9th reliever, something the Jays would have needed during the year, anyway. Depending on how he was pitching (and if he was healthy) I might have called him up over Camp when Accardo went down. Also, Machi himself is a reliever, too, and I don't see him being in a hurry to knock anyone out of the Jays pen either.

I will concede Ryan's strong point that JP's been fairly good at identifying good relievers and that I should give him extra benefit of the doubt for keeping Machi over Gronkiewicz. I guess that's what makes the decision somewhat more puzzling as the Jays have been fairly good at rewarding performance, yet clearly failed to do so with Gronk. I suppose I'm curious as to what made them decide Gronk wasn't going to be successful at the big leagues, given that they allowed Carlson or Wolfe to prove themselves. I saw his four innings and his stuff wasn't particularly impressive, but I'm sure I could say the same thing about Wolfe, especially with his first couple of appearances.

Anyhow, this discussion has continued far longer than I intended. The decision to keep Machi probably hasn't cost the Jays anything this season, although I don't think it's an effective use of the roster spot. If he's not removed from the roster this offseason we can continue the discussion then, as I'm sure I'll think someone else should be on it instead.

Also, most of the ink on Batter's Box (of which there really hasn't been that much) is because I get involved in debates like this, so blame me and not the rest of the Roster. However, I'm certainly not the only person to name him on our ballots for the annual Top 30 prospect lists, or else he wouldn't have finished as high as 18th last year.
MatO - Tuesday, August 19 2008 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#190970) #
What did they see in Carlson?  He's left-handed.  Lefties will always get that 2nd, 3rd, 4th chance.  What did they see in Wolfe?  A 95 mph fastball.  Scouts,  talent evaluators and GM's don't generally like short, soft-throwing right-handers.  That's not a Blue Jay thing, it's a baseball thing.
mendocino - Wednesday, August 20 2008 @ 12:23 AM EDT (#190974) #

singlefather, it was just a personal comment giving kudos to the Jays scouts finding talent in different ways

Brett Cecil Finding Triple-A More to His Liking | 35 comments | Create New Account
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