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Hey, double digit run production! Only the sixth time all year, and first since June 24.

On the downside, Marcum struggled in his first start after returning from the DL, allowing 11 men to reach base in 4 2/3 innings and throwing 77 pitches. Adam Lind was the offensive hero, going 4-5 with a HR and falling a triple short of the cycle. Over the last 10 games, the Jays have scored 5.5 runs/game, way more than we're accustomed to. Unfortunately, they've also allowed 5.1 runs/game.

Breaking news! Breaking news! Our very own #2JBrumfield was the first to report that J.P. Arencibia drew a walk yesterday! Hopefully it's a sign of things to come.

Speaking of Jays prospects at New Hampshire, has anyone started the Free Scott Campbell campaign yet? Despite jumping straight from Lansing this year, Campbell has had the best season of his minor league career. He's currently at 343/436/489 with a 53/49 BB/K ratio, and this isn't a recent surge - he's been hitting all year. I really see no reason not to promote him. Reports on his defense have been mixed, but even if his defense is poor, he can work on that at AAA too!

John Sickels is scheduled to release a "Blue Jays Top 20 in Review" sometime today at his site. I'd comment on it, but it doesn't exist yet.

Ed Wade apparently still thinks he's in the race, and dealt for Randy Wolf yesterday. I don't even care enough to check whether the guy the Astros gave up is a prospect or not.

In a more sensible move, the D-Backs bolstered their bullpen by adding Jon Rauch. The Nationals receive Emilio Bonifacio, a 23 year old second baseman.

If Jorge Posada keeps playing this year, it won't be at catcher.
23 July 2008 | 83 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Pistol - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#189276) #
has anyone started the Free Scott Campbell campaign yet?

I wouldn't object to him moving up, but to me it's fine if he spends the entire year at AA.

I can't imagine he was in Sickels original top 20, so it'll be interesting to see if he comments on him at all. 
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#189277) #
Campbell did not make Sickels' original top 20
ryan_the_canuck - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#189278) #

Trivia time, Bauxites.

There are 12 active major leaguers (i.e. people who have played at least one MLB game in 2008) who made their big league debuts in the 1980s.  Without cheating, name them.

Magpie - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#189280) #
Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, obviously
Gary Sheffield and Ken Griffey.

Hmm. That was the easy part.

Jamie Moyer, Kenny Rogers.


92-93 - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#189281) #
Well let's go through the old pitchers - Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Johnson, Moyer, Rogers, Wakefield and maybe even Boomer come right to mind. Does Clemens count? On the offensive side, Bonds and Griffey for sure. And I'm sure Henderson and Franco are still playing somewhere.
Dave Rutt - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#189282) #
He said they have to have played 1 game this year, so Bonds, Clemens and Boomer are out.

Maybe Luis Gonzalez?
John Northey - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#189283) #
The Glavine/Maddux/Smoltz/Johnson names came to mind quickly although I'm not 100% on Maddux.  Sheffield, Griffey were also fairly easy as were Moyer and Rogers.

My additions?  Did Matt Stairs play in the 80's?  Frank Thomas didn't, Tim Wakefield I thought didn't start until the 90's.  Timlin came to mind but he was a rookie in 92 iirc along with Jeff Kent.  I don't think David Wells has pitched this year yet has he?  Wells did pitch in '87 for the Jays so he'd qualify.  Hrm.  Stuck at that point with 10 potential names.

Bailey - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#189284) #
Omar Vizquel, Randy Johnson.

When did Frank Thomas start?  89 or 90?


92-93 - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#189285) #
I just asked my friend this question, and the first name he came up with was a nice obscure reliever, and he was right. Action traction is apparently the hint.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#189286) #
I'm not playing anymore, because I looked 'em up. Johnson and Vizquel make it 9. None of the other names mentioned make the cut.  I found two more (one of them a nice obscure reliever!) , but I'm missing the last guy...
John Northey - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#189287) #
Just checked, Stairs didn't make the majors until '92 and David Wells hasn't pitched this year in the majors.  Wakefield was '92, Thomas '90, Timlin '91, Kent '92.

Greg Maddux reached the bigs in '86 - much earlier than I thought.  Glavine was '87, Smoltz '88, Johnson '88, Sheffield '88, Griffey '89, Moyer '86, Rogers '89.

So we have 8 for certain.  4 to go.
Bailey - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#189288) #
Moises Alou?
Dave Rutt - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#189289) #
So we have 8 for certain. 4 to go.

Plus Vizquel - 3 to go.
Bailey - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#189290) #
Tom (Flash) Gordon.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#189292) #
Vizquel was #9, Gordon is #10, Obscure Reliever (74-67, 25 SV) is #11.
Bailey - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#189293) #
Did Rudy Seanez pitch in the 80s?  He's in his 40s and still playing.  Or is he the obscure reliever? 
Magpie - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#189294) #
Okay, I was thinking of a different obscure reliever. Action Traction is #12.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#189295) #
Rudy Seanez is in, and I've given clues for the last guy (because I thought he was the aforementioned obscure reliever. My bad.)
92-93 - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#189296) #
Mags, is there a reason the Jays didn't face him in 92? I see he worked 3 innings the series before.
ryan_the_canuck - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#189297) #

Heh, didn't expect this much of a reaction so quickly.

Seanez makes it 11, and I'd have thought he'd actually be *more* obscure (albeit only slightly more) than the last one.  Hint: #12 is a lefty.

On another note, I was astonished to learn that Arthur Rhodes made his debut in 91.

Magpie - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#189298) #
I dunno. He was the second lefty in the pen, and the Jays had a RH lineup, with some switch-hitters. Olerud was the only lefty bat.
DiscoDave - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#189299) #
Kent Mercker?
DiscoDave - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#189300) #
If the above is correct, the hints, lefty, and second lefty in them 92 pen did it for me.

Watching the Braves on TBS finally pays off!

92-93 - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#189302) #
Yep.
ryan_the_canuck - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#189303) #

It is indeed Kent Mercker.

Now back to our regularly scheduled TDIB discussion.

Magpie - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#189304) #
The next clue would have been "Unlike most Obscure Relievers, this guy actually pitched a no-hitter in Dodger Stadium."
John Northey - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#189305) #
Mercker sure was a 'just' qualified.  2 games in '89, 4 1/3 IP - games were September 22nd and September 27th, the 155th and 160th games for Atlanta that year.  Just 13 2/3 IP this year.

So we have a dozen candidates to join the 4 decade club in 2010.  Wonder which ones, if any, will make it?

Players on the team...
PItchers: Greg Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Johnson, Moyer, Rogers, Mercker, Seanez, Tom Gordon
Shortstop: Vizquel
Outfielder/DH: Griffey Jr, Sheffield (who started as a shortstop)

Hmm.  Guess a new challenge is who was the last catcher from the 80's to play in the majors, along with the last first baseman (not counting Griffey/Sheffield who could play there), second baseman, third baseman and a third outfielder plus an extra to cover DH if Sheffield is left to the outfield.

DiscoDave - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#189306) #
My gut tells me that Maddux will pitch as long as he has an arm, he just loves to play the game, and that Smotlz is done.
FisherCat - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#189307) #

Hmm.  Guess a new challenge is who was the last catcher from the 80's to play in the majors, along with the last first baseman (not counting Griffey/Sheffield who could play there), second baseman, third baseman and a third outfielder plus an extra to cover DH if Sheffield is left to the outfield.

Julio Franco covers the 2nd base position!

Bailey - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#189308) #
I'd have to guess Sandy Alomar for the catcher.  He was playing regularly up until two years ago with the Dodgers before he was injured and Martin stepped in.   He could split time with Benito Santiago. 

Julio Franco at 1B.



Mike Green - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#189309) #
Mercker, of course, was on the 93 Braves staff with Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine. The odds that four pitchers on the same staff, aged 27, 27, 26 and 25, will end up still pitching at the age of 40 have got to be very long.
Bailey - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#189312) #
I'd prefer Biggio at 2B. 

Sosa, Bonds, Finley all played in the 80s and played last year, so they could be in the OF

Dan Daoust - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#189313) #

Boomer is doing color for the Yankees.  That's my contribution.

[Bows.]

TamRa - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#189314) #
Moyer and Maddox might both be guys that join the exclusive "4 Decade Club" before the call it quits. Maybe Griffey too.


greenfrog - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#189316) #
I'm guessing that more than a few people will be watching AJ's start tonight with interest (I know I will be). I still think it's unlikely that he gets dealt--he has too many performance/health/contractual issues to command a great package in return--but if he can put together another strong start or two before the deadline, you never know.

The Jays' drafting over the last two or three years has looked more promising, so unless JP can get a really good prospect in return, I would prefer to see him keep AJ in the hope that he attains Type A status with a strong second half.
92-93 - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#189317) #
"I would prefer to see him keep AJ in the hope that he attains Type A status with a strong second half."

I think he has already attained that status, now it's a matter of not losing it over the second half. If you look at his spot on the rankings heading into 2008, there were only a few guys between Burnett and the bottom A guy, and they are all pitching worse than AJ. People get scared off by that high ERA, but that's only one of the 5 areas Elias looks at. Burnett's new ranking will factor in 2008 and erase 2006, and he already has thrown as many IP, has more K, the same amount of Ws, and a similar W-L% to 2006. A full season like he's having so far and AJ is a near certainty for type A status.
Original Ryan - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#189318) #
If I'm not mistaken, Vizquel, Griffey, Gordon and Rogers are the only active players who have played at least one regular season game at Exhibition Stadium.  Last year there were a few more active guys, with Franco, Wells, Mesa, and possibly one or two others being in that exclusive club.

Interestingly, Franco appeared in more games at Exhibition Stadium than at SkyDome/Rogers Centre.

TA - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 11:40 PM EDT (#189326) #
Robert Macleod of the Globe reports that Purcey is called up and Litsch is sent down.
Matthew E - Wednesday, July 23 2008 @ 11:50 PM EDT (#189327) #
That's weird. I wonder what the point of it is.

Presumably Litsch will be back up if it turns out McGowan is out for the year. Yes? No?

The_Game - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 12:58 AM EDT (#189329) #

Don't really understand leaving up Parrish over Litsch. Litsch has a future with this team and was putting up decent enough numbers.

Purcey definitely deserved the call-up, though.

92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 01:28 AM EDT (#189330) #
Litsch might not have the greatest future with this team, by this time next season the rotation could be Halladay Marcum McGowan Purcey Cecil, in a perfect world. But I would guess the reason Parrish was kept is because the Jays are still committed to winning this season, and obviously JP sees Parrish not only as a better starting option than Litsch, but also as a commodity he doesn't want to lose by exposing him to waivers.

*Sigh* I'm afraid I'll have to rename one of my fantasy teams - "Litsch's Bitches".
Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 01:32 AM EDT (#189332) #
Litsch has a future with this team and was putting up decent enough numbers.

Maybe,  and no. Over the last two months he's 1-6, 6.12. In 50 IP, he's struck out just 22 and given up 68 hits. He needs to fix some things and major league hitters aren''t giving him the chance.
The_Game - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 02:52 AM EDT (#189334) #

Maybe,  and no. Over the last two months he's 1-6, 6.12. In 50 IP, he's struck out just 22 and given up 68 hits. He needs to fix some things and major league hitters aren''t giving him the chance.

He has a 4.46 ERA and a 1.33 WHIP in total. Hardly terrible.  Most teams would take that from their #4 starter, let alone their #5.

The_Game - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 02:57 AM EDT (#189335) #

Also, I agree with the opinion that Parrish is still starting here because JP still thinks this team is somehow in the playoff race. It's just too bad it came at the expense of Litsch who has pitched fairly well at this level over 2 years, and is probably a better option for the rest of the season than John anyway.

pooks137 - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 03:39 AM EDT (#189337) #

I really don't see the harm in seeing if Parrish can reproduce his recent AAA success at the major league level even if he is just auditioning to become an emergency spot starter for next year.  I'm not sure what his contract status is as of the end of the year or if he is still arbitration-eligible if he is kept on the 40-man, but I certainly wouldn't mind him being resigned as depth even if he is on the wrong side of 30.  The Jays have been extremely fortunate this year with their rotation staying healthy almost right up until the break.

Besides Purcey and maybe Davis Romero, there really aren't any more candidates for spot starts at AAA.  If Burnett opts out and McGowan does end of needing surgery, the Jays' once formidable rotation is once again looking thin near the back end next spring.  I doubt Janssen will be considered a candidate to start if and when he recovers.  Brett Cecil is doing very well in AA, but still seems to be on strict pitch counts that limit him to 5-6 innings.

As previously mentioned, Litsch's overall numbers for the year are excellent for a 5th starter, but he has been hit hard since he peaked at 7-1 in late May.  I personally don't see this move as a last ditch attempt at a playoff run.  In fact, I see this as more like JP waving the white flag and starting to hold auditions for spring 2009.

Alex Obal - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 03:41 AM EDT (#189338) #
It's weird. I actually read it the exact opposite way. The Jays think they know what they have in Litsch. He's almost certainly a better pitcher than Parrish right now. If they thought they were still in it they'd probably keep him up, or at least call him up after he shockingly dominated AAA hitters with ease. But they're 8 games out, unlikely to make a serious run at the playoffs. So why not have a looksee at Parrish, who's out of options and has nothing to (im)prove in AAA, and see what he can do as a regular starter? If he bombs, he bombs, call Litsch back up and you weren't going to make a run anyway. If he pitches well, suddenly you've got one more trade chip than you had.

Heavens only knows what the Jays' actual rationale is but I don't mind this move.
Alex Obal - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 03:42 AM EDT (#189339) #
Yeah, what he said.
Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 04:43 AM EDT (#189340) #
Something's messed up with Litsch and it needs to get fixed. He's got options, and as a bonus you get a chance to give Purcey a a genuine look..

But Litsch is the issue. You can't keep running Litsch out there to get hammered. You just can't. He's pitched well once in the last two months. He's an automatic loss at this point.  The other guys on the team notice things like that, and inevitably conclude that no one is serious about winning this game. It's just generally a bad thing...
brent - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 04:59 AM EDT (#189342) #
When was the last time the Jays had two lefties in the rotation (Chacin & Lily?)? When did they have two for an extended period of time? I think it is better to have two lefties in the rotation all of the time if possible. Is there any measurable benefit to having righties split up? Who benefits more- righties or lefties?
Matthew E - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 09:00 AM EDT (#189345) #
Yes, Chacin and Lilly in 2005-6. Before that, they had Hendrickson and Doug Davis for part of 2003. Before that... Flener and Viola both got starts in '96... There was a year when Leiter was a starter and Spoljaric got one start... That was it unless you go back to the late '80s/early '90s when they had Key and Wells and Cerutti and Flanagan and Musselman. In 1990, six different lefties got starts: Key, Wells, Flanagan, Cerutti, Bud Black and John Candelaria.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 09:37 AM EDT (#189348) #
Well, I don't quite see this one the same as Magpie.  Here's Litsch's 2008 game log.  While he is not striking out as many as he did earlier in the season, he continues to have good control and he is not giving up the long-ball particularly often recently. He needs good defence behind him and hasn't received it recently. With Scutaro and Inglett getting much more time in the middle infield than previously, it is understandable that a pitcher like Litsch might struggle.  The July 1 game illustrates the point.  15 ground balls and 7 hits, but no walks or homers and one strikeout, in 5.2 innings (leading to 3 runs, 1 earned).  I don't call this a good outing, but it's not a bad one either for Litsch. 

Tuesday's outing was terrible, and it might be nice if he could spend a little time in the pen to work things out, but I think that the club overreacted in an effort to make a place in the rotation for Purcey.  I would have left Litsch in the rotation bearing in mind the shortage of good options, and brought Purcey up to the major league bullpen.

I do not like the club's handling of Purcey, at all. He needs to be introduced to the major leagues in a low stress situation, but the club is finding new and creative ways of adding stress to his adjustment.  Bah.

Mike Green - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 09:53 AM EDT (#189349) #
Ack, ambiguity.  In the July 1 game, there were 15 ground balls off Litsch and 7 ground ball hits (as well as 3 others).
China fan - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#189362) #
Mike, I don't understand your point about Purcey.   Why does he need to be introduced to the majors in a low-stress environment?  He's 26 years old and has already had two starts in the majors, plus a lot of time at Syracuse.  The vast majority of major-league starters were not introduced to the majors via the bullpen, were they?  Is there some reason why Purcey needs to be treated with kid gloves?  The Jays have given him plenty of time to develop, and they've given him a taste of the majors already, and he is 26 years old with a strong season at Syracuse behind him this year.  Plus, the Jays have pledged that they'll give him an extended run in Toronto over the next few weeks or months, which should further reduce the pressure on him.  He seems to have been given every possible reassurance and assistance that he could need.  Why is this considered bad handling of him?
Mike Green - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#189365) #
Three reasons for starting out Purcey in the pen:
  • He's apparently been treated for ADD. 
  • His minor league career has been filled with stops and starts.
  • He looked completely out of sync when introduced into the rotation previously

92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#189368) #
Replace "ADD" with diabetes and you could have said the same thing about McGowan last year. This IS the low-stress environment - they are 10g back and handing him the ball telling him he's going to be out there every 5 days. He's got nothing left to prove in AAA, and he is 26. I'm all for the promotion, and it certainly makes a fifth of the games more watchable down the stretch.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#189370) #

Replace "ADD" with diabetes

I see the point you're trying to make, but are you diabetic? (I am.) I doubt it, or you'd never, never make that comparison. That dog won't hunt.

92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#189371) #
I apologize if that's somehow offensive, but all you are doing is strengthening my point. McGowan had an even bigger reason to be starting out in the bullpen (+ TJ!), but the team took the approach of letting him know he has the job, show us what you got. I like working a guy in through the bullpen too, but that's only necessary when the games mean something.
Barry Bonnell - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#189372) #

Speculation that the Jays are shopping an unhappy Halladay.

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/07/ny_yankees_in_the_market_for_a.html

Smells like B.S to me.

John Northey - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#189373) #
One does wonder what Halladay would get.  A practical side of me wonders at least, emotional goes 'NOOOOOOO'. 

Halladay is in his 30's now, has completed a _lot_ of games which could lead to problems later (although his low pitch counts suggest otherwise).  Would trading him now be a 'sell one year too early rather than one too late' thing?  What would it take to trade him?  I'd think anything less than an A+ shortstop who is young and pre-arbitration would be ignored.  Plus a minimum of 2 other players who are top prospects on the verge of the majors if not here already.  A very, very high price tag but anything less and we'd see some very ugly stuff at the RC.

John Northey - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#189374) #
Woohoo!  A 5-1 victory yesterday that finished today :)

Lind is at 838 for his OPS now.  AJ gets another W and another effective start officially.  Downs & Carlson both pitch well as does Camp.  Rios up to 26 stolen bases, Lind up to 1.  McDonald getting both a sac bunt and a sac fly.  With just 80 pitches AJ should be in top shape for his next start too.

Mick Doherty - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#189375) #

Lind up to 1.

Let the sports books betting line begin. Who ends up with more steals this year, Adam Lind (1) or Ted Lilly (1)? They are now also tied with two (2) career steals.

The race is on!

Anders - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#189377) #
"Halladay is apparently unhappy in Toronto and has let management know it, and management has apparently responded by doing some quiet surveying of teams (such as St. Louis and the Dodgers)..."

This apparently comes out of the stories in the Toronto press at the ASB, which Halladay later clarified.

Doc makes a very reasonable $30 million dollars over the next two years. It's hard to think that there would be many players who are no longer under team control that would be worth more - he is one of the three or four best pitchers in baseball.

TA - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#189378) #
Three reasons for starting out Purcey in the pen:
  • He's apparently been treated for ADD. 
  • His minor league career has been filled with stops and starts.
  • He looked completely out of sync when introduced into the rotation previously

While disagreeing with Mike Green is usually a fool's game (see: Marcum, Shaun), I must admit that I am not too hot on the idea of Purcey in the pen.

What has led to his stops and starts in his minor league career is his walk rate, which only now he seems to have figured out. I fear that putting him in the pen would increase the demand and subsequent anxiety to throw strikes which could adversely effect the gains that he's made in that respect.  A starter can work their way through the occasional bought of the yips with much more wiggle room than a reliever.

You could make an argument for long-relief considering the injuries to McGowan and Marcum have made quality starts less likely, but then if both are out, or far below 100%, then you need to see if Purcey can provide those quality starts in their place.


Mike Green - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#189379) #
Thanks, TA, for the compliment.  I was thinking about long-relief for Purcey for the remainder of the 2008 season, with a goal of him entering the rotation for 2009.  The point is that the medium-term development needs, in my opinion, are more important than who will start until McGowan returns.

Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#189381) #
I haven't caught the names of the Orioles broadcasters (on Channel 399 for everyone with Rogers Digital!), but that sure sounds like Jim Palmer doing the colour. Anyway, I just loved what he said when Payton overthrew the cutoff man, and the catcher, and...

"Cabrera, of course, wasn't even paying attention."

Flex - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#189383) #
I think in a perfect world you might start Purcey in the pen, but the Jays need more help in the rotation right now, and this way the kid gets a chance to get into a rhythm.

And to say that overall, Litsch is putting up decent numbers so why the heck send him down is to give a bad name to numbers. Litsch's year is proof that numbers don't tell the whole story. Right now he's lousy and needs to work it out.
Ron - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#189384) #
No player should be untouchable and that includes Doc. If Doc was traded, I imagine it would be one of those 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 swaps. The problem with these kinds of trades across sports, is that the team giving up the one player usually loses the trade. We all know Doc is one of the 10 best starting pitchers in baseball, but I doubt he would even be able to bring back 2 impact prospects/young established players in return. For example the Jays won't get a Bruce/Volquez type package for Doc.
The_Game - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#189386) #
Halladay is untouchable to Paul Godfrey. As long as he's here, Roy isn't going anywhere.
John Northey - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#189387) #
OK, this is just weird.  Cabrera relieved Cabrera.  Better than the days when Gross relieved Belcher but it still catches the eye.

Btw, with 7 (and maybe more) runs this afternoon the Jays now have scored 5+ in 3 straight games and 10 times in July out of 18 games.  Sadly the pitchers have given up 5 runs in 11 games.  Sigh.  Just as one part gets going another falls apart.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#189389) #
Ah, .500 in July. It could be worse.
perlhack - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 05:48 PM EDT (#189390) #
Jayson Stark also has a tidbit about interest in Halladay by other teams. And apparently, the Bonds market is heating up on Wall Street.
scottt - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 06:14 PM EDT (#189392) #
Lind is at 838 for his OPS now.

Yeah, now batting .311.

I'll always wonder what would have happened if they had brought him up right away instead of worrying about that super 2 nonsense.
China fan - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#189393) #
Ricciardi, in his latest comment on Purcey, might be alluding to the ADD issue when he says this:  "He's going to have to get through the hurdle of being a little nervous at times."     Certainly we all saw this nervousness in his first two outings for the Jays this season.   It sounds like the Jays are fully aware of his tendency to get unfocused or frazzled, and let's hope that they are working on calming him down and getting his concentration up.  Another example of the vast importance of the mental part of this game.
brent - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 07:09 PM EDT (#189394) #

Thanks, Matthew E.

JP said he wanted a package equivalent to Cecil and Arencibia (sp?) on the Jaystalk because he felt that is what he could draft with Burnett opting out. Do you Bauxites think that JP could draft as successfully as those two again, or was he lucky last time? I think I would be satisfied with just one of those players (as long as they are in double or triple A and succeeding) and a throw in.

 

King Rat - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 07:43 PM EDT (#189399) #
Regarding trading Doc: for me, the issue is that the Jays simply couldn't get a reasonable offer for him. He's one of the top five pitchers in baseball, he's reliable, and he's under contract for two more years at a below-market rate. What could you possibly offer in trade? Evan Longoria, David Price and another top prospect or two? That would never be offered, but that's the only sort of thing I'd take.

It's for precisely that reason that I'm not worried about Doc being traded before 2010, if ever. Nobody would be willing to pay a fair price.
TamRa - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#189404) #
Three reasons for starting out Purcey in the pen:
He's apparently been treated for ADD.


If I may speak to the contrary, from what I know of ADD, I would think that the regularity and routine of starting would be much more ADD friendly than the irregularity  of relief pitching.


AWeb - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#189407) #
With the Jays reaching and exceeding .500, a home series against the league's worst team next up, and coming off two wins in one day, it's officially time to get our hopes up again! Hooray? Let us just hope that the management (whoever is really calling the shots now) remains a little more sober, but for now, I'm happy with the accomplishments of the day.

I'd also like to note that Lind not only has the best OPS, BA, and SLG on the club, but it's plausible that he could lead the entire team in the triple crown categories this year. HR - he's on pace for roughly 15, assuming he plays out the year, which is looking certain to lead this team unless Stairs gets hot again (or anyone else aside from Barajas' streak earlier in the year gets on a power hitting streak even once this entire year...is it so much to hope for?). His .311 average is well ahead of anyone else, and he's only 22 RBI behind Rios. Keeping up his RBI pace would be tougher (on a 120 RBI pace for 162 games), but Lind will end up near 65 at this rate. Which is awfully close to the pace of Rios for the year, which I put at 70, give or take. Lind projected over 150 games, roughly - .311/25/105.



Chuck - Thursday, July 24 2008 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#189408) #
If I may speak to the contrary, from what I know of ADD, I would think that the regularity and routine of starting would be much more ADD friendly than the irregularity  of relief pitching.

I concur. Based on observations of those close to me so afflicted, a predictable routine is highly desirable. As I understand it, the four days a starter doesn't pitch also have a fair degree of structure and predictability to them. Emulating Halladay's five-day cyclical routine would be of great value, I would imagine.
Mike Green - Friday, July 25 2008 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#189419) #
That makes sense, Chuck.  The ideal would be regular low leverage work to start, but failing that, it might be better to have the regular routine of starting than irregular relief work.  If they're going to do that though, they should go whole hog and give Purcey a regular turn in the rotation for the rest of the year.  My fear is that they're going to choose the worst of both worlds and give him irregular (spot) high leverage/pressure work.  It would be nice to be wrong about that.
Chuck - Friday, July 25 2008 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#189433) #
Absent the ADD, I do agree that Purcey could do with a bunch of Earl Weaver-style low leverage bullpen innings to find his footing at the major league level. The downside of that, though, is those innings are rare indeed on a 12-man staff.
China fan - Friday, July 25 2008 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#189434) #
Mike, my understanding is that the Jays have promised Purcey exactly what you're suggesting:  a regular turn in the rotation for the forseeable future.   Of course they can't promise him a regular turn for the entire second half of the season, because there are too many imponderables.  What if he suffers a lot of blow-outs and third-inning exits?  It will be hard to keep him in the rotation forever if that happens.  Similarly, if McGowan is ready to return in September, or if Jesse Litsch has a string of great starts at Syracuse and seems ready to return, there's no guarantee that Purcey won't be sent down -- but those are both unlikely to happen for a couple of months anyway, and even then the Jays might just bump Parrish to the bullpen to make room for McGowan or Litsch if Purcey is doing well.   So, again, I think the Jays are giving Purcey as much steady reassurance as anyone could want.  This is his long-awaited opportunity to show his stuff on a regular basis, and let's hope he does as well with it as Adam Lind has done.
John Northey - Friday, July 25 2008 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#189436) #
I'm curious to see if Cito can be as patient with Purcey as he is with Lind.  Give him confidence and get him going when he had issues before.  If so then I nominate Cito for manager of the year :)
Chuck - Friday, July 25 2008 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#189439) #
I'm curious to see if Cito can be as patient with Purcey as he is with Lind. 

Lind has hit .365 since his call-up. It's not like Cito has had to show a whole lot of patience with him.
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