Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Sabathia on the Move

The Indians have apparently traded C.C. Sabathia. To the other league.

His destination appears to be Milwaukee, in exchange for Matt LaPorta and some other (unidentified, and so far unnumbered) minor leaguers.

Posted by Magpie on Sunday, July 06 2008 @ 08:48 PM EDT.

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Lefty - Sunday, July 06 2008 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#188464) #

Hard to access this deal until all the chips are in. LaPorta looks like a keeper alright. Sabathia will likley move on after a his gig as a temporary worker in Milwaukee

Reports indicate that Cleveland will also be sending propects back. So it looks like Milwaukee and Cleveland will help establish this years trade deadline market worth.

I wonder if the Dogers have shifted attention to Toronto needing to pick up a shortstop and starter? LA have said they don't want to part with top prospect talent for a rental. However needing two positions maybe the Jays have the leverage to pry something shiney out of them.

Rob - Sunday, July 06 2008 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#188465) #

Check your link, Mags. Here's a working one from BP (where I first saw the news): http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=930.

Say, too bad Seattle wasn't in the running for Carsten Charles. They could have used him today, what with their Menechino Moment in the 15th.

MrPurple - Sunday, July 06 2008 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#188466) #

It will be very interesting to see what the indians can ring up in this trade. It should set the standard for what the jays can ask for when teams come calling for A.J.

christaylor - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 04:59 AM EDT (#188469) #

That's a good sign for moving AJ, in terms of return, but I wonder if the messy contract will prevent AJ from being moved. If a team gets him to agree to opt-out before being traded for then he's like C.C. just right-handed and no-where near as good, but as it stands if a teams trades for him and he blows out an elbow and needs TJ... he might not opt-out, because he could be paid $12M to rehab and $12M for his TJ come-back season (which are rarely very pretty)... and that's just considering TJ. There's shoulder injuries, too. Yay! I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays take is one B grade prospect at most for AJ, because of this risk.

I'm hoping we could get that SS in AA from the PHI, Donald... he's blocked and could fit nicely into the lineup in 2009 after a September call-up this year... or he could be a right handed hitting Russ Adams. I just hope they stay far away from Chin-Lung Hu.

Magpie - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 06:58 AM EDT (#188470) #

Check your link, Mags.

Yeah, whenever I try to incorporate a link it goes nowhere. Don't understand it.

Thomas - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 07:53 AM EDT (#188471) #

Along with setting some sort of standard with regards to the market for FA-to-be pitchers, the other relevant piece of news for Jays fans from these negotiations were that the Dodgers were the other team that remained in negotiations until the end. Apparently, however, they are intent on finding a shortstop (they're currently starting Angel Berroa) and were unable to match the package from the Brewers that eventually got Sabathia. The Dodgers are supposed to be high on Jack Wilson, but David Eckstein has also surfaced.

It would be great if JP could deal Eckstein for something of relative value to a team that is in contention and desperate for a shortstop. If I was JP, I'd quickly be preparing a list of selling points as to why Eckstein is preferable to Wilson.

lexomatic - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 08:27 AM EDT (#188473) #

I wonder if the messy contract will prevent AJ from being moved

I asked this in another thread... but isn't this point moot? My understanding was that player traded in the middle of a multi-year deal could declare themself a free agent at the end of the season if they wanted. Can someone confirm? This would make the AJ situation irrelevant because anyone with a few years left on their contract could opt out if traded. I'm positive I remember reading about this a few times over the years.

Kieran - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 08:47 AM EDT (#188476) #

I believe the provision is that if a player gets traded in the FIRST year of his multi-year contract, he can become a free agent. This therefore wouldn't apply to Burnett, had he not had the opt-out clause.

lexomatic - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 08:57 AM EDT (#188478) #

Ahh thanks. Too bad, it would've been a nice evener (and made this year the definitive time to trade AJ)

Chuck - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#188491) #

Zach Jackson was part of this trade.

92-93 - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#188493) #

"If a team gets him to agree to opt-out before being traded for then he's like C.C. just right-handed and no-where near as good"

For the record, Burnett entered the season with the lower ERA. Now, I'm not seeing he's as good, or even that they are close...but they are certainly "near" as good. This early trade of Sabathia should leave Burnett in the spotlight all of July.

Chuck - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#188494) #

Ignoring the potential threat posed by Burnett's player option (he could get hurt and then lock in for $24M), what separates Sabathia and Burnett is reliability. You plop Sabathia into your rotation and you're pretty sure he'll be there for the balance of the year. Anyone acquiring Burnett won't have that confidence.

Now, what Sabathia's long term prognosis might be is a different story, He's a big guy.

92-93 - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#188495) #

"Ignoring the potential threat posed by Burnett's player option (he could get hurt and then lock in for $24M)"

Burnett could go on the DL today for the rest of the season and it would still be the smart thing for him to do to opt out and test the market. At the very least he receives a Carlos Silva type contract which effectively extends his current deal a few years.

Magpie - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#188496) #

At the very least he receives a Carlos Silva type contract which effectively extends his current deal a few years.

I dunno. I think he needs to improve his numbers a little to guarantee that. If he ends up 11-13, with an ERA over 5.00, and with his health record... it only takes one dumb GM, but the bidding might start at $6 million a year. That would certainly be a kick upside the head. He might really be better off to stick with the bird in his hand.

Ryan Day - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#188497) #

If he's healthy for the rest of the year, he'll have over 200 strikeouts. He's still just 31, he's still got the awesome stuff, and you know there'll be at least a few teams out there that think they can straighten him out.

SIlva's an easy comparison, but just look at what Andruw Jones got coming off a bad year from a team that hoped his talent would bounce back.

ayjackson - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#188500) #

AJ's injury risk is a bit overblown. He's only lost 7 of his past 62 turns. Those seven misses were with a sore shoulder that reared its ugly head after three starts averaging 125.3 pitches. I think his elbow problems are behind him and if handled properly, his shoulder shouldn't be a problem either.

That said, there seems to be a bit of a problem between the ears.

robertdudek - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#188508) #

Burnett has spent most of his career in the NL, where ERAs are lower due to facing a pitcher. Sabathia has been in the AL his whole career.

That said, Burnett has generally put up decent numbers in Toronto, and this season is not a lost cause either. His peripherals are solid and I'd rather have a high-strikeout guy entering his mid-thirties than a finesse type guy.

He hasn't been nearly as durable and workhorse-like as Sabathia, and this accounts for the bulk of the difference in value.

He's valuable. He just hasn't been the world-beater that many fans expected. His stuff is a shade behind Rich Harden's, but he doesn't seem to have the same feel for pitching that Harden has.

When he was acquired I thought his numbers would go up because he was going to the tougher league and the DH, so I'd say his performance has been just about what I expected.

skippy23 - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#188514) #

I think Milwaukee just wants C.C. for his bat. [He hit a 440 foot homer earlier this year in interleague play...]

John Northey - Monday, July 07 2008 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#188519) #

Burnett has actually (outside of this season) pitched as good as could reasonably be expected. 115 and 119 ERA+'s over 21 and 25 starts in those two seasons. His last year in Florida was a 115 preceded by a 112. His best is a 122 (not counting the 125 in his rookie season over 41 IP).

This year though is horrid. He is down to an 82 ERA+ over 113 IP. For comparison Towers had an 83 last year over 107 IP. I'd expect more from AJ going forward, and I suspect most teams also feel that way thus the Jays should be able to trade him. Get a solid SS in AAA or AA (or even the majors) and a B prospect and I'd go for it.

Glevin - Tuesday, July 08 2008 @ 01:48 AM EDT (#188523) #

"That said, Burnett has generally put up decent numbers in Toronto, and this season is not a lost cause either. His peripherals are solid and I'd rather have a high-strikeout guy entering his mid-thirties than a finesse type guy."

I am sure some team will be willing to give up something of quality for Burnett, but if I were a GM, I wouldn't. The guy is 31 years old, in his 10th season and he is just missing something. He throws too many pitches, seems to follow a game where he looks like an ace by one where he looks like #5 starter, and doesn't seem to know how to use his awesome stuff. He's not some 22-year old and I see no reason to believe that at 32, he'll just figure things out if he hasn't already. (Or, get healthier) He is a pretty good third starter. That's it. Guys like this (or like Daniel Cabrera) are so frustrating, because they have the stuff that anyone would be jealous of and it doesn't make sense why they aren't better. If you have a high 90's fastball and great breaking stuff, you should be a very good pitcher.

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