I 100% disagree with people calling for Gibbons head. He is using the team that he was given, both the good and the bad. There is nothing that he can do to make this team more "clutch", which is the team's biggest problem. He can't suddenly make Kevin Mench a legitimate middle-of-the-order hitter. He can't make Vernon Wells stop popping up to second base.

I think a manager's most important moves come to dealing with the pitching staff, in particular the bullpen. With this, Gibbons has done a great job. A new manager will not fix what ails this team, only a makeover of the offense.

I agree with Pistol that Ricciardi is an average GM.  I, however, have no faith that Godfrey could select an appropriate successor.  In fact, I tend to assume that someone worse would be hired and take the team back to square one (but have his incompetance masked by the emerging farm system).  So until Godfrey is replaced, I'd take JP and just hope he can find the catalyst to ignite the offense.

The hitters are choking with runners on base and they're not hitting with a power stroke.  Initially, it was poor luck but I think it is beyond that now.  Luck plays apart, but so does confidence.  They're mostly late on fastballs.  Lack of confidence leads to tentative swings.  Tentative swings lead to late-on-fastballs.  Late-on-fastballs leads to outs and weak hits.

Firing Ricciardi isn't going to turn the season around.  We should reassess his position and performance in September.  Ultimately, if a team's performance is less than the sum of its parts, it's the manager's responsibility.

If a player performs below expectations, he's responsible.  If a team performs below expectations, the manager's responsible.  If a team performs up to expectations, but still doesn't achieve any positive results, the GM is responsible.

I think this is out of Gibby's hands, but that doesn't shift responsibility.  In every sport, it's the manager/coach's responsibility to get the most out of his players.  Gibby, for whatever reason, has seen his offence underperform for too long a time.

Hey, nothing wrong with firing JP either.

By the way, why all of a sudden now when Gibby's head is on the block does he get entitled to the "it's not his fault, he can only deal with the players he has" defense, as if he has otherwise done everything right?  Isn't he the one who continues to bat Rios in high-impact spots in the line-up, be it third or lead-off?  Is he too afraid to challenge Rios by batting him sixth or lower?  And how about staying with Inglett in LF for a little while, if he's the only outfielder with an OPS that isn't cover-your-eyes awful?  And what of the fact that whenever someone leaves this team (Hillenbrand, Lilly, Thomas), it's always under a cloud of discontent?  Is that all on them, nothing to do with Gibbons?  Isn't it possible that Gibbons is overseeing a disfunctional clubhouse that he can't turn around?  Doesn't any of this redound to him?

Just saying...

Ewwww.  Richie Sexson is awful.  He certainly has no more pop than Wilkerson and is sporting a considerably worse batting average and OBP.  He is 33 and has seen five straight years of statistical decline.  If we're looking for a righty bat with Pop, there are a ton of ways to go before we get to Sexson.  Just a couple off the top of my head - Wells, Rios, Rolen.

I find it strange that so many people are opposed to firing Gibbons and Ricciardi. Ricciardi is one of the longest serving GMs in the game right now, and hasn't accomplished anything significant. Yes, the team is better now than when he took over, but that's damning with faint praise. And Gibbons is one of the longest serving managers right now too.

Both GM and Manager are traditionally very volatile positions, and 5 year terms are the long end of what to expect without at least making the playoffs. Neither of these guys is notably good enough at their jobs to keep them despite an underperforming team, as far as I can tell. Ricciardi is good at filling holes with decent players, signing second-tier free agents (second tier is still good, just not superstar)  and finding bullpen arms. Not exactly championship skills, just good ones. Gibbons (and his coaches, I see them as a unit) uses his staff well (I think), and shows some willingness to platoon, but what players have added new skills under his watch. Did anyone become a top base-stealing threat? Did anyone pick up unexpected skills?

Does no one else remember what a huge difference Cito Gaston made when he took over as manager? He took over a talented but struggling 12-24 team, and they went 77-49 from there. I'm not suggesting Gaston be hired again, but managers can make a difference. Just making changes and shaking up a team that isn't performing up to par is worth doing once in a while (and it's been 5 years, hardly a knee-jerk reaction).

• Hillenbrand + Chulk for Accardo
• Stairs (138 OPS+) for an 850k contract
• Scott Downs for free

I'm not sure what you're looking for in this

The whole point of my post was, what is the reason to keep JP in the GM position.  What has he done to deserve continuing on here after 7 years?  As I pointed out, you can't say, well it's because he's built a great farm system, because he hasn't.  You can't say it's because the team has made the playoffs, because they haven't.  You can't say because of all the great trades he's made, because he hasn't.  The examples you gave are decent moves.  As I said, he has made some decent moves, and some not so decent moves.  Is that a reason for him to keep the GM's job after 7 years?  If the best he has done after 7 years is sign Matt Stairs/Scott Downs and trade for Jeremy Accardo, I say that's not good enough.  Don't forget, you have to balance those decent moves against the moves that haven't been so favourable.  Like I said, he hasn't been terrible, but where's the meat in the sandwich?

Another point in Kim Ng's favour is that the local media has even less of a clue about women than they do about baseball.  I would expect the first year or so to be highly entertaining, as guys like Steve Simmons and Richard Griffin struggle to figure out how to be their usual condescending selves without coming off as horribly sexist.  At least Bob Elliott would be happy that scouting would be emphasized, since baseball scouts are the only guys he likes to talk to.

It seems unlikely to me that Rogers will fire J.P. in mid-season unless they already have a candidate lined up.  If a division of a large corporation is operating poorly, and does not appear to be improving anytime soon, a change in management would be the logical next step.  However, to ensure stability, and a smooth transition, the corporate leaders would identify and prep the new management team before jettisoning the old one.  This way you can spin it as a situation that you already have under control, and while the previous manager should be thanked for all the hard work, the new manager represents the positive change that you've been seeking for a while, blah blah blah.  Corporations like stability and predictability, and I see no reason why Rogers wouldn't treat the Jays any differently than they would their internet division, or their wireless division, or their TV division.  J.P. did what they wanted - cut costs, work with a small budget, deliver a team that isn't a total embarrassment.  But after giving him more and more money to work with, the product has not significantly improved, so the investment they've made in the club has not produced the expected results.  If the wins aren't there, the attendance suffers, thus bringing in less revenue.  They're not losing money yet, but the brand suffers if the team isn't doing well, and negative media coverage keeps casual fans away.  So, a change may be necessary, even if you're only interested in a cosmetic change to generate some positive publicity.  If LaCava is the guy you already want, then you're golden.  If he's not, then you start looking for someone else.  But it's crucial that you have the replacement ready when you do decide to make a change.  Otherwise, you're the Mariners, stumbling around like a blind man in a minefield, trying to find a new GM with the media spotlight glaring at them, the rumour mill churning non-stop, and potential candidates fielding calls from Peter Gammons every five minutes looking for a scoop.

Firing J.P. now is a panic move, an act of desperation from a company that does not seem particularly desperate, so that's why I don't expect anything to happen.  But come Spring Training 2009, it'll be a different person at the helm, and we can only hope they're an improvement.

One aspect of how you evaluate JP is whether the team is in better shape now than when he left it.  I think it is about the same. 

JP was jammed up initially by some financial constraints and big contracts but he also had the benefit of some nice prospects (such as McGowan and Rios).

JP has had enough time to make his mark on this orgainzation and I can see no basis to believe that the Jays are a well run orgainzation.  This is a team that has to be built through the draft and shrewd moves.  The drafting has been poor, with the result that JP is unable to trade prospects to other teams for their prospects or develop "stars"  (Marcum and maybe Hill are the exception) for the home side. 

Most damning is the fact that the drafting has been poor mostly as a result of the GM's personal philosophy to draft college players to the exclusion of high schoolers.  This has changed in the last two years, but given we won't see these players for another 4 years, it is likely to be too late for JP.

JP has proven he is excellent at low level deals to fill out a bullpen or fill a platoon.  This is Assistant GM stuff.  Lets let him go back to doing that stuff and get a better GM in place. 

However, I do think you're underestimating how difficult it can be to move bad contracts.  Dumping Mondesi was not an insignificant accomplishment at all.

Not insignificant but J.P was lucky that a panicked Steinbrenner told the GM that he had to trade for Raul making JP's job a lot easier. A lot of J.P's moves seem to be dumb luck as opposed to shrewd deduction, i.e not being able to sign Lilly and Meche, not finding someone willing to take Rios when he was offering him up for people like Brad Wilkerson and Mike Sweeney.

Also a lot of J.P's draft picks Janssen, Litsch, Marcum have come in the later rounds after J.P has left the building and the scouts are making the decisions.

 I believe that cases can be made that it is both to early and/or to late to press the eject button on these guys and since we don't have a fastforward for the rest of the season we might as well sit back, put our feet up and raise a brew or two and see what developes... then at the end of the season push for Godfrey's replacement with Paul Beeston... or at least someone with more baseball knowledge and more "gumption" or "moxie" ...someone to view the Jays as more than just a vehicle for filling air time, as more than a commodity that can be written down or off in the cable/communication business and someone with insight enough that could increase or optimize the Jay product to become a more valuable asset within Rogers... unfortunately the only person that knows less about baseball than Godfrey is Ted Rogers so ...

92-93, I'll give you that with the splits, but I will hold to the belief that there must be a better way to go than Sexson - but maybe he should be platooning with Overbay. 

In other news, Elliot said that Rios was out of the lineup tonight and implied it was due to performance.  He also said that JP wasn't on this road trip.  I wonder if he's in the Dominican Republic in advance of the international signing window.

My much smarter brother says we lure Brian Cashman (his contract is expiring and he must already be fed to the teeth with young Steinbrenner) with Godfrey's job, and let him find his own Gillick-like, ie scouting-oriented GM, who will pick his own coach. Sounds good to me.

I asked my friend, Big Joe Mufferaw if he thought JP should go.

Me: "Big Joe should we send JP packing?"

Big Joe: "Ab-so-toot-ly. It's all that man's fault. He done put a hex on that Rios boy. No way that stud hits less than 40 homers 'lessin JP gave him the evil eye. Then there's that Overbay guy. Guaranteed 45 doubles in his sleep - that man can just plain hit! Leastwise 'till JP put somthin' in his jock that he didn't take kindly to. Musta been somthin' like that. Heck, you ever seen that boy Wells! Bigger than an 'ol White Spruce up on Packenham mountain. That man coulda paddled all the way to Mattawa from Ottawa in just one day - ifin he were into paddlin'. Nope, that man has had his mind fried by JP - gots to be - can't be no other explanation - least wise as far as I can see. Not to mention what he done to Ryan and Janssen's arms - no man should be able to do that an' still keep his job. Did I mention what he done to League?"

Me: Well, there you have it. Big Joe, the best baseball man from Smith Falls to Dacre - and all points in between, has spoken. JP, your days are numbered.

• Hillenbrand + Chulk for Accardo
• Stairs (138 OPS+) for an 850k contract
• Scott Downs for free"

Will Carroll at Baseball Prospectus has an interesting list of the top GM candidates:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7683 (subscription not required for this one)

Personally I wouldnt mind someone like Jed Hoyer, Assistant GM of the Red Sox.   Very well run organization with a great balance between scouting and analysis.

Interestingly Tony LaCava is #5 on his list.

I think if JP's on his way out, I'd like Tony LaCava to get the job.  I think JP's brought in some good talent around him with LaCava, Lalonde and the likes.  LaCava is very well respected around the league and almost got the GM job in Pittsburg last year (I think...didn't he turn it down?)