Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Wells, McDonald, Wolfe Return to Bigs, Hill to DL, Inglett to AAA, Stewart Out, Benitez DFA'd

Wells, McDonald, Wolfe Return to Bigs, Hill to DL, Inglett to AAA, Stewart Out, Benitez DFA'd

If you haven't been paying attention for the last three hours, well, uh, a lot of things are different.

To Recap.

Vernon Wells and John McDonald are taken off the DL and promoted to the big club - they arrived in Toronto at about noon today. Wells was expected to be out 6 to 8 weeks, and its been almost four weeks exactly, so I guess that broken wrist wasn't so bad. He singled in his second at bat, and looks good. Brian Wolfe has also been promoted to the Majors from AAA, where he had pitched 4 perfect innings with 5 k, 0 bb and 2 hits allowed. Wells was 4 for 8 with 4 singles in A+, McDonald 4 for 11 with 4 singles.

To make room for them, Aaron Hill was placed on the 15 day DL retroactive to May 30th with a concussion. Joe Inglett was optioned to AAA. Armando Benitez was designated for assignment. He had allowed 5.32 runs (earned and unearned) per 9 innings over the last four years, this one included.

Meanwhile, Shannon Stewart left the game with an ankle sprain after beating a throw to first that took Kevin Millar off the bag. Vernon Wells was the defensive replacement, and is now playing centre field - he almost made a brilliant catch at the wall in the 5th, but just missed it. Stewart is listed as day to day.

Find the whole wrap up here.

Hat Tip to everyone pointing things out - I figured there was enough going on for a thread.

Posted by Anders on Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 02:31 PM EDT.

Wells, McDonald, Wolfe Return to Bigs, Hill to DL, Inglett to AAA, Stewart Out, Benitez DFA'd | 40 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Anders - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#186805) #

There are several things that I find amusing, or perhaps I should say sublime, about this.

Firstly, that Alex brought up Stewart and Benitez as two of the biggest, and most predictable, failures of the Jays organization this year, which I agreed with him on. A day later, Stewart is out and Benitez is gone forever.

Two, I generally feel that JP Ricciardi has a lot of strengths and weaknesses, and in the case of Benitez they really come through. While signing Benitez for some depth was hardly a poor move, even with his struggles, when he made it on to the team it became inevitable that he was going to pitch in high leverage situations, which he did. He really wasn't that bad other than last night... after which he got cut. There should be no circumstances in which a player is cut for one outing - it just doesn't make sense to evaluate players on a day to day basis. If the reason he was cut was because he was the last guy in the pen and Wolfe was back, why then was he pitching in high leverage situations at all, especially given the Jays surplus of relievers? I'm glad he's gone, and will be even happier when our bullpen includes Ryan, Downs, Carlson, Accardo and League and one (or I suppose two) of Frasor, Tallet and Camp. A trade needs to be made somewhere - plenty of teams want bullpen help, and its not like the Jays couldn't use a good prospect.

Lastly, Vernon Wells evidently healed a broken wrist in four weeks. I guess 126 million does buy you something.

The_Game - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#186808) #

Shannon Stewart is still in the major leagues, and Adam Lind is still in AAA. Can anybody give me an actual reason as to why this is the case?

92-93 - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#186811) #

"Shannon Stewart is still in the major leagues, and Adam Lind is still in AAA. Can anybody give me an actual reason as to why this is the case?"

The year 2014, and having him under team control. It's as simple as that.

Chuck - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#186812) #

The year 2014, and having him under team control. It's as simple as that.

So the team is concerned about ensuring that a 31-year old Lind is under team control when they likely won't even deem him worthy of being on a major league roster at age 25 (in six weeks)? Doesn't that seem a little unlikely?

Alex Obal - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#186814) #

I was just about to say. That's some confidence in Lind.

According to Cot's, Lind had 0.145 years of service heading into this year. So, my understanding is that if he's on the big-league roster for 27 days this year to get him to the magic number 172, he makes it to one year of service time and the Jays control him for one less year. He's already been with the team for about a week. So, if they bury him in AAA all year and then call him up with two and a half weeks left in the season, they get to keep him an extra year, unless I'm working from a faulty understanding.

So the idea is to forego four months of Lind's age 25 season when Shannon Stewart (mercifully, soon to be Brad Wilkerson) is the alternative, for Lind's full age 31 season, when we don't know who else will be in the outfield? Minus a few dollars in arbitration inflation? Maybe I just don't know what's good for me.

92-93 - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#186815) #

Hey, I wasn't sticking up for it! Just answering the question. This isn't a new thing you are seeing with JP - last year's Ohka Thomson Zambrano was the same as this year's Wilkerson Mench Benitez. Of course Lind should be up and starting, and should never have been demoted.

ScottTS - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#186816) #

If the reason he was cut was because he was the last guy in the pen and Wolfe was back, why then was he pitching in high leverage situations at all, especially given the Jays surplus of relievers?

Who makes the decision regarding how a player like Benitez is going to be used? When a player is signed, does the GM say to the manager "this guy should be used in such-and-such a way", or is that totally up to the manager?

92-93 - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#186819) #

"Who makes the decision regarding how a player like Benitez is going to be used? When a player is signed, does the GM say to the manager "this guy should be used in such-and-such a way", or is that totally up to the manager?"

Well, JP has to recognize that Gibbons doesn't exactly trust Frasor and that when he hands him Benitez he is going to be used in high-leverage situations if the alternative RHPs are Camp and Frasor.

Alex Obal - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#186820) #

What he said. I have no clue, but I think a reasonable GM has to expect a manager to place disproportionate trust in a guy with 289 career saves. It's one of the hidden costs of signing veterans.

Ron - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 06:33 PM EDT (#186821) #

"A trade needs to be made somewhere - plenty of teams want bullpen help, and its not like the Jays couldn't use a good prospect."

A middle relief arm isn't going to bring you back a good prospect. Heck the best pitcher in baseball was only able to bring back a bunch of middling to solid prospects. Finding productive bullpen arms is the easiest position to fill in baseball. Heck the Jays were able to obtain guys like Downs, Carlson, Wolfe, and Tallet with minimal resources.

The real question is how much longer does Doc Halladay want to stick around? From the moment he was drafted, the Jays have been non-contenders and they will be non-contenders in the future under the current regime. I'm sure he wants to pitch in the playoffs and he won't be doing this as long as he wears a Jays uni. At Spring Training, he felt like in the past, the Jays didn't have a sense of urgency. I wonder if he feels the same way this season? I wouldn't be surprised if he went behind closed doors and requested a trade/or will do so in the off-season.

Thomas - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#186822) #

I think it's as much to do with Gibbons' evident lack of trust in Frasor as it does with Benitez's career stats. Gibbons has done a relatively decent job with the pen and he showed he was willing to deviate from the strict closer usage pattern in 2006, so I don't think he's necessarily wedded to some of these 'traditional' baseball ideas (contrasted to someone like Gardenhire's bullpen management). So, I think it's as much the fact that Frasor is number 3 on the right-handed depth chart in the pen.

Jdog - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#186824) #

I wouldn't be surprised if he went behind closed doors and requested a trade/or will do so in the off-season.

Well I sure would be. The guy is a rock of integrity, he will honor his contract, i think its clear that he wants to win and that he wants to win here. I have no worries at all of Doc wanting out of here, if he had even sensed wanting out of of Toronto he wouldn't have signed another extension.

A middle relief arm isn't going to bring you back a good prospect. Heck the best pitcher in baseball was only able to bring back a bunch of middling to solid prospects. Finding productive bullpen arms is the easiest position to fill in baseball.

Well Indians, Tigers and Yankees to name a few are finding it fairly hard to find decent arms for their bullpen's this year. The best pitcher in baseball brought what 5 good prospects(1 or 2 could be stars. you never know) and if he was locked up and making the minimum he would have brought back a lot more. If we are to offer one of our young bullpen arms Im sure we could bring back a good prospect.

Anders - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 08:37 PM EDT (#186832) #

The real question is how much longer does Doc Halladay want to stick around? From the moment he was drafted, the Jays have been non-contenders and they will be non-contenders in the future under the current regime. I'm sure he wants to pitch in the playoffs and he won't be doing this as long as he wears a Jays uni. At Spring Training, he felt like in the past, the Jays didn't have a sense of urgency. I wonder if he feels the same way this season? I wouldn't be surprised if he went behind closed doors and requested a trade/or will do so in the off-season.

Really? Two-fifths of the way through the season when the team is actually looking, a few unfortunate occurences aside, like the best the Jays have fielded in a while? This is the real question of the Blue Jays season? That the team's star pitcher, an exemplary professional committed to the team, would want to bail, with 3 years left on his contract, on an organization that has been good to him? Because Roy Halladay really seems to be the type to demand a trade.

Also, from a USA Today article this past offseason:

Teams invested $109.25 million last winter in multiyear contracts totaling 35 years to 14 relievers. The only closer in that group was Cincinnati's David Weathers, whose two-year, $5 million deal was in the lower half of the contract values.

Thats an average of 2.5 years at 3.1 million a year, for the 14 relievers to sign in the 2006 offseason. This past offseason Octavio Dotel got a 2 year, 11 million dollar contract, Keith Foulke got 7 million for one year, Latroy Hawkins 3.75 per 1, Masa Kobayashi 13 over 2, Ron Mahay 8 over 2, etc, etc, etc, this is the world in which teams aren't willing to give up anything for good relievers making between 300k and a million, under control for several years?

owen - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#186834) #

A middle relief arm isn't going to bring you back a good prospect.

Well, I dunno about that. Sometimes you can get a decent hitter for a middle reliever with upside ... maybe someone who is causing clubhouse problems on his current club, a Shea Hillenbrand type. Or, if you can find a club whose middle relief is really struggling, you might be able to package a couple arms for a blue chip prospect - a Jose Cruz-esque player. Other such scenarios likely exist. In my opinion.

92-93 - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#186835) #

I think Chris Duncan would be a nice addition to our OF, and can be had for some arms to help a struggling bullpen. He hits RHP very well, and the Cardinals have a deep OF with Ankiel, Ludwick, Schumaker, Barton, and Rasmus isn't far behind.

Jake W - Saturday, June 07 2008 @ 11:16 PM EDT (#186839) #

Talking of OFs, I'm concerned about Rios. I haven't been watching every game as of late due to time difference between where I live and Toronto. However, based on what I've seen of Rios and his stats, it looks like he's lost his power stroke. Does it look like he's lost some lift in his swing and that he's back to being a singles hitter with the occasional groundball double? Is he at least hitting hard-liners? He's not slugging and his BA and OBP are both low so it's not like he's turned into an low-power, OBP machine. According to BP he's got one of the lowest VORP amongst rightfielders (sandwiched between Hermida and Guerrero). When I looked at the PECOTA projections early this year I was skeptical about their projections for Rios but now I'm becoming more convinced. I appreciate that his D is valuable but at some point, a rightfielder has to rake as well.

If he continues like this his contract will be discussed in the same conversation as Hinske's. Wonder if Denbo knows something that Brantley did not.

Ryan Day - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:12 AM EDT (#186841) #

This isn't a new thing you are seeing with JP - last year's Ohka Thomson Zambrano was the same as this year's Wilkerson Mench Benitez.

Not really. For one thing, Thomson never pitched in a game with the big league club. Those guys were brought in as competition for the younger starters, and were released after limited playing time when it became clear Marcum and Janssen were better options.Neither Ohka nor Zambrano kept a better player in the minors.

Benitez probably wouldn't have seen much, if any, time in the majors if not for Wolfe and Accardo getting injured/ineffective. Wilkerson came in largely in part because Lind didn't hit at all when he was given the chance. Sure, Lind should have gotten more of a shot, but he didn't do himself any favours: He had one single and one walk in 20 plate appareances. If he was even mediocre, the Jays probably would have stuck with him longer, but he was downright horrible.

Mench doesn't really have anything to do with Lind, since he's on the team as a right-handed bat.

Ron - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:36 AM EDT (#186842) #

"Really? Two-fifths of the way through the season when the team is actually looking, a few unfortunate occurences aside, like the best the Jays have fielded in a while? This is the real question of the Blue Jays season? That the team's star pitcher, an exemplary professional committed to the team, would want to bail, with 3 years left on his contract, on an organization that has been good to him? Because Roy Halladay really seems to be the type to demand a trade."

Halladay only has 2 years left on his contract. He's set to make 14.25 million in 2009 and 15.75 million in 2010. Halladay is 31 years old and if he ages like most other pitchers, his window of being an above average starter is starting to close. I imagine he wants the opportunity to pitch in the playoffs while he's still near the top of his game. He signed his last extension before the 2006 season and the Jays don't appear any closer to the playoffs than they did then. If he has already demanded a trade/or will in the off-season, I don't expect him to go public with it. I'm not suggesting I have any inside information on Doc, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear he wants out eventually.

"Teams invested $109.25 million last winter in multiyear contracts totaling 35 years to 14 relievers. The only closer in that group was Cincinnati's David Weathers, whose two-year, $5 million deal was in the lower half of the contract values.

Thats an average of 2.5 years at 3.1 million a year, for the 14 relievers to sign in the 2006 offseason. This past offseason Octavio Dotel got a 2 year, 11 million dollar contract, Keith Foulke got 7 million for one year, Latroy Hawkins 3.75 per 1, Masa Kobayashi 13 over 2, Ron Mahay 8 over 2, etc, etc, etc, this is the world in which teams aren't willing to give up anything for good relievers making between 300k and a million, under control for several years?"

Keith Foulke didn't sign for 7 million, he signed for 700K. You originally said "A trade needs to be made somewhere - plenty of teams want bullpen help, and its not like the Jays couldn't use a good prospect." What I got out of it, is that you think the Jays might be able to get a good prospect for a bullpen arm. I have no doubt teams are willing to trade for middle relievers but to trade a good prospect or 2 for a middle reliever? No chance in hell. You're not going to see a Clayton Kershaw, Colby Rasmus, Desmond Jennings, Austin Jackson, Elvis Andrus, Taylor Teagarden, or a Ben Revere traded for a Jason Frasor or Jesse Carlson. There's a big difference between giving up "anything" and a "good prospect". I've been trying to locate a trade in which a middle relief pitcher was traded for a good prospect, and I can't find an example.

John Northey - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:49 AM EDT (#186844) #

cough...Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell...cough.

OK, that was a long time ago but it has happened and Anderson had never reached even 8 saves in a season at that point (hit 13 a couple years later as his peak). Also in 97 the Jays got Cruz Jr (who was a hot prospect) for Mike Timlin and Paul Spoljaric who were both middle men (although Timlin was viewed as a sometimes closer too but Seattle already had a couple of full-time closers on the team at the time). Both of those came to mind immediately.

I'm sure someone can come up with a more recent middle man trade, but they do happen once in awhile. To count on it though is silly. I figure it would take a steal trade to get a top prospect for a reliever at this point (ie: JP finds someone in the minors who their team does not value). A far better route is trading AJ along with a reliever to get a hitting prospect or two. Ideally CA or SS as the outfield has two guys signed until 2014 and Snider getting close and 2B is signed until 2014 as well. SS can move to 3B if needed, CA to 1B. As I mentioned in the 7th of June thread I see St Louis as the best bet as they have a young catcher already in the majors and a top prospect in AAA but to get him you'd have to give up more, I suspect, than the Jays would be willing to. Guess we'll see as the year goes on.

What is most frustrating though is looking at the 'expected W-L' record - Jays should be in the wild card slot based on that rather than last place tied with the Yankees.

John Northey - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:57 AM EDT (#186845) #

Oh, a fun FYI: the Jays heading into today were listed at 15.89% odds of making the playoffs vs the Yankees at 13.99. Woohoo! First time all year for that, although part of the reason is an error was holding the Jays down until today. Still, it is fun to see.

Glevin - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 02:39 AM EDT (#186847) #

"I'm sure someone can come up with a more recent middle man trade, but they do happen once in awhile. To count on it though is silly."

Rincon for Giles maybe? You can't count on getting much for the Jays bullpen arms apart from Ryan (which would be a great move IMO). The fundemental problem the Jays have is that they are not very good and will not be able to be made good by trading as they only have a few players with any value, all of whom they need if they want to pretend to contend this year.

S P - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#186853) #

I have a soft spot for Shannon Stewart. Forgive me. He is, after all, one of the best hitters in franchise history and as recently as last year, he still had it, so I'm not sure why Jays fans are so unhappy with him. Yes he's struggling but so is rest of the lineup. I bet most of it is bitterness about Reed Johnson but I stand by JP's decision in the spring. It was the right move and 20/20 hindsight is unfair.

But with his recent injury, if it's serious enough for a DL stint, then I'd like to see Adam Lind brought up for good to share time with Stew. Then Wilkerson can be released when Stewart is back. Rios or Eckstein can lead off until Stewart is back and then Rios should be moved down to 6th or even 7th. He needs to know that he has to and that he can play much much better and moving him down will send that message.

Magpie - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#186854) #

Stewart is on the DL - Joe Inglett, who probably hadn't even made it to the airport, is back.

Mike Green - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#186856) #

I'm liking today's starting lineup. Rios, Stairs, Wells, Rolen, Overbay at the top is exactly right. When Hill returns, they'll be all right.

It is important to bear in mind that the club has been missing Wells, Eckstein, McDonald, Zaun and Hill, and functioned quite well until Hill's concussion. Ricciardi's depth signings came in handy this year. He did a much better job at it this off-season than in previous years.

Magpie - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#186857) #

Wilkerson is not going to be released (especially now that he's actually starting to get his bat untracked) - of the three outfielders on the bubble, he has the only LH bat and has the most defensive utility. It's going to come down to Stewart or Mench.

It's odd how it all turns out. The argument for Johnson over Stewart was his clear defensive superiority and the fact that in a platoon arrangement with Stairs, Sparky's bigger platoon splits would actually be helpful. So what happens? Stairs exits the OF picture to become the full-time DH. This ought to make Stewart a better option, as well as by far the cheaper one, seeing as he hasn't historically had the same kind of platoon splits.

So naturally, Stewart comes up with a Sparky-sized platoon split this year

greenfrog - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#186862) #

How do you choose between Stewart (240/325/303) and Mench (238/277/286)? Neither is a great 3rd, or even 4th, OF option. I'm guessing they keep Stewart, because of Mench's limitations against RHP and maybe Shannon's track record as a leadoff hitter. Interestingly, their career OPS's are almost identical: 790/788.

Of course, they could dump both and recall Lind. That would be a nice performance-based HR move.

I agree that JP has done a nice job with bench depth (Barajas, Scutaro, Inglett, McDonald, Wilkerson) but the team has been extraordinarily weak in two areas: LF and DH (against LHP). I wonder how many wins these two black holes have cost the team this year. Of course, the pain is compounded by the fact that we have a LF mashing in AAA to the tune of 329/386/525.

John Northey - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#186863) #

Stewart's platoon spread is a reminder - platoon spreads are fairly standard and universal no matter what short term stats say. There can be exceptions but generally they are for extreme cases where a guy just cannot hit pitchers who throw from a certain side. We all get caught up in them (I know I do at times), but in truth a platoon spread should be around 20% iirc for all players and if a guy does more or less it is probably a statistical fluke more than a skill/lack thereof. Platooning is useful if you have two guys who are decent at the same position as you can give both rests and have a better bat on the bench. But do not count on a guy who kills lefties to continue to do so or for a guy who is horrid vs RHP to continue to be so unless that is their overall skill set (ie: a 100 OPS+ guy won't be a 150 OPS+ vs RHP for long and to count on it is foolhardy).

FYI: Stewart: 240-325-303 73 OPS+, Johnson: 265-344-364 84 OPS+

scottt - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#186865) #

Wells heals a broken wrist in 4 weeks and comes back looking better than when he left. (5 for 7, on 1HR)

I wouldn't be surprised if some folks want to talk with his trainer.

greenfrog - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 06:39 PM EDT (#186866) #

Amazingly, the Jays trail only Tampa Bay and Oakland in the wild card race (they're in a virtual tie with NY). The Jays are 5.5 games behind TB and 1.5 behind the A's.

I think the Rays will hang around the playoff race. Not necessarily around .600+, but they have a talented ballclub. I also think the Yankees will find a way to compete (they can always pick up a good player in a salary dump trade, the way they landed Abreu). The A's? I have no idea, but they have a track record of finishing strong (which may be statistically meaningless) and Beane is a shrewd GM.

Should be interesting. The Jays might be able to land a big scary LF/DH bat like Bay, Dunn or Holliday, but I think players of that calibre will be pricey. I would be surprised if we have enough minor league depth to pull off a coup of that magnitude. It might be worth giving Lind a shot now instead. A line of 270/350/450 might be enough to ensure meaningful games in late September. That's about 150 points of OPS more than we've been getting from our current LF--and better than Holliday's career away stats of 274/336/444.

scottt - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 11:21 PM EDT (#186873) #

We'll see where they stand at the end of the month. They have a favorable schedule in June. It's going to get harder after that.

The_Game - Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 11:38 PM EDT (#186874) #

It's not about him being one of the best hitters in franchise history, and it's certainly not about Reed Johnson. Shannon Stewart has a .628 OPS...which is the 3rd worst OPS for any major league starting outfielder. Only speedsters Tavaras and Bourn are worse.

S P - Monday, June 09 2008 @ 02:09 AM EDT (#186875) #

Stewart, of course, has no other redeemable qualities as a baseball player. He can't field, run, or throw, and as I just proved to you...can't hit. There is absolutely no reason he should be in the majors, and I can't believe that anybody would defend him, especially when they have Adam Lind at AAA.

No other redeemable qualities? He has a career league average FP and RF, so this myth about him being an abominable fielder is exaggerated. His arm hasn't been awful either. I don't remember any times this year where runners took advantage of him. In fact, he has 3 assists. I also can't remember his running ever being a liability. He's no Jose Reyes, I'll give you that. And as for him not even deserving to be a MLer, well, just last year he hit .290 with a 101 OPS+. He has sucked this year at the plate, no doubt, but the man has a track record and he can lead off. That said, I never said anything about Lind not deserving to be with the big team. I said the opposite, saying Shannon's injury is the perfect excuse to bring Lind back up. I said the same thing after Wells' injury also, but JP has some other agenda. Regardless, Lind simply should be playing in Toronto, period.

The_Game - Monday, June 09 2008 @ 05:16 AM EDT (#186876) #

No other redeemable qualities? He has a career league average FP and RF, so this myth about him being an abominable fielder is exaggerated. His arm hasn't been awful either. I don't remember any times this year where runners took advantage of him. In fact, he has 3 assists. I also can't remember his running ever being a liability. He's no Jose Reyes, I'll give you that. And as for him not even deserving to be a MLer, well, just last year he hit .290 with a 101 OPS+. He has sucked this year at the plate, no doubt, but the man has a track record and he can lead off. That said, I never said anything about Lind not deserving to be with the big team. I said the opposite, saying Shannon's injury is the perfect excuse to bring Lind back up. I said the same thing after Wells' injury also, but JP has some other agenda. Regardless, Lind simply should be playing in Toronto, period.

His career stats have nothing to do with anything, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up. Stewart has regressed considerably and is nowhere near the type of player he once was.

Stewart is by far our worst defensive outfielder...there's a reason he's been replaced by Kevin Mench late in games at times. He gets terrible jumps, has poor speed (that's where his running hurts, he's not a bad baserunner), and an awful arm. Assists have nothing to do with the strength of your arm. Teams tend to challenge those who they believe are the weakest players, and for that reason those players can get a lot of assists simply because of the other team taking risks. Remember when Manny Ramirez was at the top of the AL in assists a few years ago?

And no, I do not believe he should be a major leaguer anymore. The only reason he's in the majors right now is because the Jays were the only team willing to actually play him in the outfield. His '07 bat certainly isn't good enough for the DH position, and with the defense he has in left, he's basically an overall liability at this point in his career. And that's even assuming that his numbers will eventually climb at some point. Having a .628 OPS in nearly 200 AB, along with terrible defense, kind of suggests to me that his time at this level might be done. 29 other teams certainly thought so...it's about time JP thought so, too.

And I assume the Jays will eventually choose to keep Wilkerson over Stewart/Mench. He plays decent defense (and can play the other outfield positions), and is actually a left handed bat...something this team needs. Lind is obviously not going to play if he wasn't up by now.

Thomas - Monday, June 09 2008 @ 05:35 AM EDT (#186877) #

His arm hasn't been awful either. I don't remember any times this year where runners took advantage of him. In fact, he has 3 assists.

Just because you don't remember something, doesn't mean it's not true. Honestly, Stewart has one of the worst five outfield arms in the AL, if not the majors. He's not got great, or even average, range either, as the other poster said. As for your comment about releasing Johnson being the "right move at the time" many of us questioned the decision then, in part due to Stewart's defensive limitations and the fact many of us thought he was nearly done as a batter.

People aren't bitter about the Johnson move. I wish they had never made it, but I also wish the team had never signed Royce Clayton or Armando Benitez, had not waived Josh Banks, etc...etc... Any baseball fan has to accept that the team they follow will make personell moves they disagree with. Nobody's cheering Stewart's failures. We just want the Jays to succeed and the less playing time Stewart gets, the more they're likely to do that.

China fan - Monday, June 09 2008 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#186883) #

Shannon Stewart makes a very convenient punching-bag and an easy scapegoat. But if you want to pinpoint the reasons for the poor offensive performance by the Jays this year, Stewart is not the biggest culprit. Let's face it, the biggest disappointments are Alex Rios (OPS of .695) and Aaron Hill (OPS of .685). Those two players should be entering the peak of their careers. They've been rewarded with comfortable long-term contracts, and they were widely expected to be ready for break-out seasons. Instead their numbers are not much better than the much-hated Shannon Stewart. So let's try to keep things in perspective. If Rios and Hill were living up to expectations, the Jays would be in the thick of the pennant race.

Mike Green - Monday, June 09 2008 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#186885) #

Rios and Hill have been offensive disappointments so far this year. However, they are young and have made enough of a defensive contribution to have significant value. Stewart has not. He ought not to be playing every day at this stage of his career.

S P - Monday, June 09 2008 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#186887) #

Just because you don't remember something, doesn't mean it's not true.

Well, would you like to point out the instances then? I've seen every game and I can't remember any times where his arm was an issue. True, his jumps off the bat aren't great. However, people are ignoring the facts and relying on a reputation. The stats say he is a career league average player in FP and RF. I understand why he is the whipping boy this year, but pinning the Lind and Reed situations on him is terribly unfair.

Mike Green - Monday, June 09 2008 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#186888) #

While Stewart often takes awkward routes, he actually has, over his career, had adequate or better range. Here are John Dewan's 2005-07 numbers, which put the case for him at its best. Right now, I'd mark him down for average range.

But, his arm is very weak. It was poor when he came up- which is why the Jays, incorrectly in my view, moved him from center to left for Jose Cruz Jr. It's much worse now. Here are John Walsh's arm numbers for 2007. You'll find Shannon Stewart at the bottom for left-fielders.

Magpie - Tuesday, June 10 2008 @ 01:00 AM EDT (#186922) #

the Jays, incorrectly in my view, moved him from center to left for Jose Cruz Jr.

I always thought that was the main reason they moved him to left: because his arm wasn't good enough to handle centre field. In other words, for the same reason the Pirates moved Bonds to LF, the same reason the Tim Raines in centre experiment didn't pan out for the Expos, the same reason Rickey Henderson spent most of his career playing LF.

I simply don't expect left fielders to have good arms - most of them don't, and the position doesn't really require one. The few that can throw are generally playing left because the team has better options for the other two spots, or because they're simply not quick enough to play the other spots at all. Manny, who actually can throw (don't forget, he also led the league in BaseRunner Kills when he was playing RF in Cleveland) plays left now because he's no longer quick enough to cover right field. He moved to left in the first place because Fenway's very weird right field gave him all kinds of trouble when he arrived.

Wells, McDonald, Wolfe Return to Bigs, Hill to DL, Inglett to AAA, Stewart Out, Benitez DFA'd | 40 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.