Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

TDIB 30 April 2008

Well, that sucks.

8.2IP, 5H, 1R. And a loss. You've gotta feel for Doc.

By the way, raise your hand if you've noticed Halladay's velocity dropping over the last few years. Unfortunately for those of us who rely on record-keeping as a substitute for memory, pitch F/X data has only been around for 2 years, but I'm pretty sure that Halladay's fastball was consistently in the 89-91 range last year, lower than it had been in, say, his Cy Young season. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, the point is, whatever velocity was lost seems to be back. Doc is 12th in the majors in average fastball velocity among starters at 92.6 MPH. #1? Why, that would be our very own Dustin McGowan, and by a comfortable margin - D McG is averaging 95.6 MPH, a solid 0.8MPH over the #2 guy (King Felix).

In other news, A-Rod and Posada are both on the shelf for the time being, and with the struggles of Hughes and Kennedy, the Yankees are suddenly looking vulnerable. John Smoltz is also on the DL, though they're saying he won't need surgery. Oh, and Max Scherzer (this year's Joba according to MLB.com) has officially arrived, going 4 1/3 perfect innings with 7 K's. Scherzer had a 38:3 K:BB in AAA in 23 innings before being called up to the Diamondbacks.

Dustin "95.6" McGowan goes up tonight against Dice-K.

Posted by Dave Rutt on Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:22 AM EDT.

TDIB 30 April 2008 | 54 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

jmoney - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#184041) #

Yeah it sucks to be a Jays fan at the moment.

I think the problem the J.P. era jays have is that they pick their season slump in April every year. Then you've got nothing to hope for since their season is done.

Would be nice if they teased us until September or something.

Maldoff - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#184042) #

As a big money player, Vernon Wells has to do more to lead this team. I understand that, like Halladay, he is not a rah-rah leader, but more of a follow-my-lead type guy, which is fine. But to bobble that ball in the ninth last night, when Ortiz would have easily been a sitting duck, is just bad. He also has been terrible thus far with runners in scoring position. He needs to pick it up in a big way, or this team has no chance.

Dan Daoust - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#184043) #

"As a big money player, Vernon Wells has to do more to lead this team."

How many years is it that Jays fans have been saying that?

Magpie - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#184047) #

you've noticed Halladay's velocity dropping over the last few years.

Not exactly, but I've noticed him not throwing as hard most of the time. I've seen him zip in enough at 94 to think it's still there whenever he wants it.

mathesond - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 12:40 PM EDT (#184049) #

"As a big money player, Vernon Wells has to do more to lead this team."

How many years is it that Jays fans have been saying that?

Well, since he signed his big money deal prior to the start of the 2007 season, I'll go with 1 year + 1 month

Dave Rutt - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#184051) #

Not exactly, but I've noticed him not throwing as hard most of the time. I've seen him zip in enough at 94 to think it's still there whenever he wants it.

Yeah, that's probably a more accurate version of the last few years of Halladay. I guess he wants it on every pitch this year.

John Northey - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#184053) #

Today - "As a big money player, Vernon Wells has to do more to lead this team."
1999 - "As a big money player, Carlos Delgado has to do more to lead this team."
1995 - "As a big money player, Roberto Alomar has to do more to lead this team."
1991 - "As a big money player, Joe Carter has to do more to lead this team."
1987 - "As a big money player, George Bell has to do more to lead this team."
1984 - "As a big money player, Dave Stieb has to do more to lead this team."
...
other teams
...
1941 - "As a big money player, Ted Williams has to do more to lead this team."
...
1922 - "As a big money player, Babe Ruth has to do more to lead this team."
...
1911 - "As a big money player, Ty Cobb has to do more to lead this team."
...

Basically throughout baseball history whoever the guy getting the biggest paycheque is, who may or may not be producing, is always said to have failed if his team didn't go all the way. Really not fair as the big guy is rarely the reason the team didn't win, it is more the guys with the 80 OPS+ or ERA+ who are costing the team - and of course the GM who picked those players.

This year Wells is playing very much like Joe Carter. He is getting tons of RBI (17 vs #2 on the team Rios/Hill at 13) but has an OPS+ of 99. Whats odd is he is getting on enough to lead the team in runs scored too. Still, he isn't what is killing this team. What is killing them is bad luck (RISP has been shown to be more random than almost everything else in baseball), and the 170 AB's given to Stewart (56 OPS+), Scutaro (68 OPS+), Barajas (56 OPS+), and McDonald (41 OPS+). Not to mention the 60 AB's given to a 75 OPS+ Frank Thomas and the 69 ERA+ of AJ and 52 ERA+ of Accardo.

lexomatic - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 01:15 PM EDT (#184054) #

I'm not disagreeing with what you said John, but would you not agree that it's fair for the fans to expect the players getting the big salaries, will perform at a high level? While Wells is not the reason the Jays are losing, he is PART of the reason, and he is not performing at the expectation level set by his salary. He isn't the only one, but he's an obvious choice for fan disappointment , and SOMEWHAT deserving.

Timbuck2 - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#184055) #

you've noticed Halladay's velocity dropping over the last few years.

Not exactly, but I've noticed him not throwing as hard most of the time. I've seen him zip in enough at 94 to think it's still there whenever he wants it.

I've gotten the impression over the last few years that Halladay treats his 95-96MPH heater as a 'Show Pitch' much like A.J.'s changeup. It helps keep his arm healthy since he's not throwing with maximum effort on every pitch and with his philosophy of movement and location over velocity he doesn't really need to throw 96MPH anymore.

Really makes you think about some of the other fireballers in baseball who would probably be better pitchers if they did the same thing. If I was a pitcher I'd gladly trade a couple MPH for better location and movement.

The_Game - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 01:27 PM EDT (#184056) #

Halladay's velocity declined last year as the season went along. I expect the same will happen again. That doesn't mean he can't still be very effective, though.

tr0mbone - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#184059) #

I've been working with the Pitch F/X data and Doc's cutter is usually 90-92 but it drops to 89-91 later in the game and season. His 4 seam usually is about 92-94 but I've seen more than a few 96 and 97 MPH pitches. What's interesting about Doc is that sometimes his cutter breaks just like a curve ball only at 92 MPH. Also, his sinker confuses my pitch identification algorithms as it's usually as fast as his cutter in the 88-92 MPH range and looks just like his changeup that sits in the 84-88 MPH range.

Doc holding back is still dominant. As long as his pitches are diving and hes hitting the corners it's just a matter of run support.

Craig B - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#184062) #

What's interesting about Doc is that sometimes his cutter breaks just like a curve ball only at 92 MPH.

"Hello Derek. Lovely weather. You're looking well today."

"Hello Alex. Lovely weather indeed! You look like you fell off the back of a truck going sixty."

"Indeed. I feel rather discombobulated at the moment."

"The tall gentleman?"

"The tall gentleman indeed, my friend. He's very... interesting."

"'Interesting' is certainly how I would describe him as well!"

"Very interesting indeed. I find his pitches quite interesting. The cutter interests me quite intensely."

"That is true. One is compelled to take an interest."

John Northey - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#184064) #

I think the big problem with Wells is that he is paid too much for who he is. He is basically Andre Dawson, a low OBP solid Slg centerfielder who has a bit of speed and defense but gained a massive rep off of a couple of very good years.

Relative to league Dawson was better, but for raw stats he and Wells are similar. Both got on around a 330 OBP clip, while slugging in the 400-500 range depending on how good a year they were having. Both drove in runs, both were solid on defense, and both got paid more than they were worth due to peak value rather than their true value (from 88 to 93 Dawson was top 10 in salary all but one season with 2 years in the 130's for OPS+ and the rest in the 115 range except 1993 at a 92 clip).

What is funny is Wells won't be getting $10+ million until next year (dead on $10 mil) which is now the salary for a solid regular/near All-Star which he lands in and the $20 million hits in 2010-2014 which is when he will really be overpaid but, given baseball inflation, not by as much as we thought he would be. For example, last year 3 guys (all Yankees) were over $20 million and another 8 were $15+ million. His average of $18 mil a year from '08 to '14 is the same or less than the following will get (deals start in 2008 unless noted) - A-Rod ($27.5), Santanna ($22.9), Manny Ramirez ($20 for 01-10), Miguel Cabrera ($19), Jeter ($18.9 for 01-10), Carlos Zambrano ($18.3), Andruw Jones ($18.1), Torii Hunter ($18), Ichiro Suzuki ($18), and Barry Zito ($18 for 07-13). Quite the crowd now at that level and growing every season by leaps and bounds.

FYI: BJ Ryan is now the 7th highest paid reliever in baseball (per year) while Vernon is tied for 3rd for outfielders. Halladay's silly deal from Gord Ash is still the 3rd richest per year deal given to a 1 year or less service time player.

Boy, looking at all that sure makes the Rios and Hill deals look sweet. In truth I expect Rios to become 'the man' here very quickly if he isn't already while Wells is 'just' the richest guy in the clubhouse until Halladay's next deal.

Chuck - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#184066) #

You've gotta feel for Doc.

Within the context of feeling sorry for well-paid professional athletes who are playing a sport they enjoy, yes, you gotta feel for Doc. Within the context of real life, not so much.

FisherCat - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#184068) #

I think in order for Wells to "shine" in the eyes of Jays' fans, he needs to carry this team offensively over a long stretch, when no one else seemingly can. Every successful team over the last 6 seasons has had a consistent guy keep their team above water until the rest of the team catches up. Yankees=A-Rod (April-May 2007); Red Sox=(Ortiz); Angels=Vlad; White Sox=Dye/Konerko; Seattle=Ichiro; Twins=Torii. But when Vernon has a chance to lift this team on his shoulders...he never does.

Ever since VW "burst" onto the scene in 2003, we've had all the baseball pundits (ESPN, et al) telling us how great he is. But when you see him day in and day out, it just never seems to show itself. I for one firmly believe that he can only become that player when he has a batter just as dangerous as him "ON-DECK" (i.e. Delgado...Rolen?), because if not pitchers know they can get him to swing weakly at THEIR pitch.

I was cautiously optimistic when they signed VW & Hinske way back when because I felt the only reason they "looked" like good hitters, was because they got a steady diet of "hitter's" pitches with Delgado on-deck.

brent - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#184069) #

game 27- WPA hero Halladay (3) WPA let downs Stewart (4), Rios (5), Wells (8), Eckstein (9)

AWeb - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#184070) #

Did anyone else realize that Toronto is slugging .364 as a team? That's...not good. I think it's finally dawning on me why Mulliniks continues to pound home his favourite point - See a pitch you like and let it go (to paraphrase). Perhaps he wants the hitters to take harder swings and try and drive the ball. The Jays aren't striking out much at the plate, but a swing and miss would be preferable to another weakly hit grounder on a 2-1 pitch. The Jays are walking a ton, 3rd in the league without a single guy (remaining - Thomas) who I think of as a "walk guy", aside from Zaun. Overbay in particular seems to have traded power for walks. "Be more aggressive" may sound to a lot of us like bad advice (walks are good, right?), but aggressive to Mulliniks, who always took a good number of walks, probably means something like "If you are going to swing, then swing hard - with less than two strikes, commit to the swing and stop hitting those weak grounders and popups".

I always find it interesting when a player has a higher OBP than SLG - players of this type can be useful if their OBP is high enough, but they are generally the Eckstein type (slap hitters, pesky, not very good hitters). Toronto as a team is close, at .342 (good!) vs .364 (ugh!). Overbay, Zaun, Scutaro, Eckstein, Stewart, and McDonald all have managed OBP higher than SLG so far. That's 3-4 starters a night, two at "power" positions. A walk is not as good as a hit, especially with runners in scoring position.

All the Jays problem come down to the one terrifying, but unsustainable line - .215/.307/.310. That's the line for the Jays in 308 PA with RISP. Save Shannon Stewart, that's a worse line than any regular has put up, despite all the struggles, so there is no reason it should be this bad. For comparison, Boston has had 307 PA's with RISP, managing .304/.398/.404. I'll go out on a limb and say those two lines are probably the entire difference between the two teams right now - the Jays are getting runners to scoring position just as well, they just haven't gotten hits or XB hits to cash them in.

John Northey - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#184071) #

Something interesting from Baseball Prospectus today was QuickERA which basically figures out ERA from the components that are most likely to stay stable for a pitcher. Namely the walk rate, the strikeout rate, and the ground ball rate. Makes sense so lets see what it says about the Jay starters.

NAME	ERA	QERA	Spread
Roy Halladay	3.26	3.52	0.26
Shaun Marcum	3.24	4.30	1.06
A.J. Burnett	6.07	5.31	-0.76
Dustin McGowan	4.18	5.13	0.95
Jesse Litsch	4.85	4.15	-0.70

Interesting. The dark green indicates guys who are likely to improve in ERA - AJ (expected) and Litsch (really?). Halladay is solid at 3.26 or 3.52 so no real worries there. Marcum listed as really being a 4.30 isn't a shock either as that is where I see him long term. But McGowan is scary. His ERA at 4.18 is about where many expected him to be this year, dancing around the 4.00 mark, but QERA suggests he is performing at a level that should result in an ERA almost a full point higher, into 'dump from rotation' level at 5.13. Uh oh.

Magpie - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#184072) #

In other news, a two-run double by Eric Munson in the 7th gave Nashville a 4-3 victory over Colorado Springs today. Josh Towers took the loss, to fall to 2-2; Dave Bush started for Nashville, wasn't around for the decision.

Chuck - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#184073) #

I think there are two notions of aggressive which often get mistaken for each other.

There is Rance Mulliniks aggressive which means to swing only at strikes, but without concern for the count. If the pitcher grooves a 0-0 fastball, swing at it, don't take it with the idea that you'll work the count because (a) that may be the best pitch you'll see in the at-bat and (b) you'll be starting out 0-1, which is a serious hole.

Then there is Mookie Wilson aggressive which means to swing at everything, strike, ball or otherwise.

The former means you will draw your share of walks, because you are staying in the strike zone. The latter means that you better be Vlad Guerrero or you won't have a job for too long (Mookie's decade long career notwithstanding).

While the actual numbers may prove me wrong, it seemed that Frank Thomas often took first pitch fastballs and put himself into 0-1 holes, because it was his nature to work the count. Were he of a mind to heed Mulliniks' counsel, he might be swinging at those 0-0 fastballs, and, say, hitting homeruns off of Manny Delcarmen.

grjas - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#184075) #

While the usual suspects are taking the heat for the continuing lack of BJ production, it is interesting that our most recent "saviour" Adam Lind has one miserly BB in 10 at bats since being freed. Yeah I know it is a small sample size and I hope it's a short term aberration, but it's interesting to see how deep the funk is right now. Adding Lind and Rolen in the last few games turns over almost 25% of the line up and we still can't get it done.

Hopefully the April jinx ends by tomorrow.

uglyone - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#184076) #

But McGowan is scary. His ERA at 4.18 is about where many expected him to be this year, dancing around the 4.00 mark, but QERA suggests he is performing at a level that should result in an ERA almost a full point higher, into 'dump from rotation' level at 5.13. Uh oh.

That's what happens when you give up 7bb in 4.0ip in 1/5th of your starts. I'm betting on that being an anomaly.

The Litsch stats are the most interesting to me - unlike most, I like this kid......and I really don't think he's getting the credit he deserves for something particularly important - STRIKEOUTS. His peripherals are the reason why many don't see him lasting, but the fact is that he's still a baby, and has been steadily improving them every month of his career.

May '07: 1.4k/9, 0.4k/bb
Jun '07: 4.2k/9, 1.5k/bb
July '07: 4.5k/9, 1.7k/bb
Aug '07: 4.8k/9, 1.7k/bb
ST '08: 8.5k/9, 3.0k/bb
Apr '08: 6.9k/9, 2.9k/bb

His peripherals are starting to more resemble his minor league numbers now.....AAA 6.0k/9, 3.3k/bb....AA 6.9k/9, 3.7k/bb....A 7.9k/9, 6.3k/bb.

If those K numbers are anywhere near for real this year, this kid will be fine.

MondesiRules - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#184081) #

Well for everyone on here that wanted Adam Lind so bad, how exactly is he helping us over Thomas? Being 0 fer after 4 games is certainly not what I had in mind...

scottt - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#184082) #

Oh, come on! Lind is just waiting for the right moment.

timpinder - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#184083) #

AAGH!

2nd and 3rd, nobody out, and only one run is produced. Gibbons may not be able to swing the bats for them, but he is the only person responsible for batting the worst starting hitter on team 2nd in the order. Absolutely terrible ("Terrible" applies to both Gibbons and Eckstein in this instance).

Stairs, Lind, and Rios have all hit line drives right at Boston players. When is this going to end?

Matthew E - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#184084) #

Oh, whatever.

(McDonald getting picked off.)

Bid - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#184086) #

Johnny Mac would simply have been the front end of the double play anyway.

But what a terrible call at first...Overbay was halfway to the Pesky pole when the throw arrived.

Sherrystar - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#184087) #

After Gibbons is fired, hpefully the new manager will have faith in relievers other than Scott Downs.

This ship has sunk.

Ryan Day - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#184088) #

The only thing John McDonald can do is play defence. So of course, let's use him as a pinch-runner for the DH, practically ensuring he doesn't play any defence.

And while I'm usually quick to point out that Scott Downs isn't a LOOGY, it's also probably not the best idea to have him pitch to Manny Ramirez when he's getting over some arm troubles.

Blah.

ramone - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#184089) #

I can't believe gibby didn't go back to the pen for Varitek, clearly downs was getting hit hard.

grjas - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#184090) #

So today Wells makes the throw, but still we lose. They did get a run today, but still no base hits with RISP.

Can someone explain why we are still watching these guys? Is this some sort of early spring sado-masochism?

HollywoodHartman - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:17 PM EDT (#184091) #

I'm 17 and this team is going to give me an ulcer.

Jonathan - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:22 PM EDT (#184093) #

That was sick. I'm actually scowering the standings, thinking of who I want to cheer for, for the rest of the season. I don't know why I allow myself this masochistic behavior. And my god, it's only April.

I see that the Mariners have released Brad Wilkerson today. He would be a great pickup at little price to the Jays. He would help to re-balance the lineup with another left handed bat. He can play left and first pace in the event that Overbay's lack of power continues. I think it's time to cut bait on Shannon Stewart; with Lind up now, Shannon will see little playing time and has shown little to nothing at the plate thus far.

Gerry - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#184094) #

Ryan pitched Sunday so he was due to pitch, maybe it was too cold for him. Tabler, Carlson, Frasor and Camp must be in the doghouse.

greenfrog - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#184095) #

I was surprised Downs was left in to pitch to all hitters in the ninth. Downs is coming off being unavailable due to a sore shoulder and he was falling behind the hitters and the curveball wasn't sharp.

I was surprised too, although I wasn't watching the game--I caught the last half-inning on the radio. It seemed pretty clear that Downs didn't have it (although he managed to K Lowell, who is usually a tough out in the late innings). He was also hit pretty hard his last time out. I would have liked to see Frasor to face Ramirez and Lowell. And maybe Carlson to face Varitek.

I'm listening to Wednesdays with JP and I have to say, I'm not crazy about his attitude (defensive, touchy and subtly evasive). I guess I just don't find Ricciardi especially credible these days.

Seamus - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 11:28 PM EDT (#184097) #

I don't think I can watch this team on a day to day basis for a while. Too depressing.

I'll check in again in a few days.

I've always been an optimist about the Jays, but I think I'm ready to see J.P. go. This is just horrible.

90ft_turnleft - Wednesday, April 30 2008 @ 11:45 PM EDT (#184098) #

A few things are adding to the increase of acid in my stomach right now not the least of which is hearing J.P. try and defend keeping Eckstein in the game in the late innings vs. putting in Johnny Mac.as a defensive replacement with the lead.

I can't say this is verbatim but close enough,J.P ......."I can't say that Eckstein has cost us very many games because of his defense"......or to that affect.

"Cost us very many games"..........if he even has cost you/us one game b/c Gibby and you have chosen to stick with him regardless of his defensive limitations,that is surely,to me anyway,one too many.

Proof positive yet again tonight when Overbay had to once again bail out a low one- hopper from Eckstein in the late innings which surely could have lead to the go ahead run at the time,when we were tied one apiece.

And yes I am a bit over the top here about when to use Johnny Mac. in the late innings with a lead but I'm almost close to suggesting we use him in a game like tonight, tied in the oppositions yard with a ground ball pitcher on the mound.I do realize it goes against the baseball 'mantra' of playing for a tie at home and a win on the road, but I still would be tempted to do this only with the belief that my defense and bullpen would outlast the oppositions.

At least prove to me there's a beating heart in this team by showing me some ingenuity and risky creativity with your choices in all areas,not just some areas some of the time.Especially when your team is in a huge,lethargic tailspin.

Even simple decisions like tonight when Poppy comes to bat and parks one in the first row down the right field line, and you play him to pull(like you should on the infield) but basically play him straight away in the outfield,although with a bit more 'gusto' and fearlessness I still believe Rios could have caught that ball.Why oh why is Rios playing almost straight away in right with a dead pull hitter at the plate.

Manage to win,don't manage by trying not to lose.C'mon.Enough already.

I'm not suggesting that I don't admire Ecks. gutsy at bats and hustle but I am questioning why night after night,especially when the losses mount you don't use what is essentially a gold glover more often,if only to test my theory that great pitching and defense will always outlast good hitting.

And I don't have the energy right now to even wade into the debate,if one even exists,as to why Downs is out on that mound for all those final at bats.

CaramonLS - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 01:00 AM EDT (#184099) #

Scott Rolen is living this Mantra right now.

He is looking for a fastball, elevated in the zone and is going out and getting it.

timpinder - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 01:20 AM EDT (#184100) #

J.P. did say on the show that Gibbons would likely be shaking up the batting order again. I can only hope this means that Eckstein (the worst hitter in the lineup) will finally hit 9th. Of course, with his grit the Jays are probably going to make him a pesky little clean-up hitter.

ComebyDeanChance - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 07:03 AM EDT (#184102) #

I thought Ricciardi was impressive on the post-game radio show. in response to the predictable calls for Gibbon's head, he took responsibility for the offense (or lack thereof). In response to a call about team speed he said no one other than the '85 Cards stole their way to the WS, and stated that it's more important to be on base (though that hasn't generally been the team's problem - it's OBP ranking is far higher than it's ranking in runs, OPS, or ba).

In response to the tiresome calls to sign Bonds, Ricciardi said that he's not going to do something wrong for the organization out of fear for his job, and that signing Bonds would reflect negatively on the integrity of the organization, and he essentially said it reflects poorly on the integrity of the fans who would 'sell their souls' to bring in Bonds, who may not be useful anymore in any event.

He was asked by one of the Bonds callers why the team stuck with Zaun after his less than satisfactory 'explanation' after the Mitchell report and Ricciardi candidly admitted that they likely would not have signed Zaun to a contract had the report been released, but it wasn't out when he was signed. I wonder how Zaun will take that. To heart, I hope.

He also said it's one month out of six, and asked people to give the team a little more time. I agree with him on this, if only because there's not really much option at this point and there actually may be a value to these losses. Something about what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, though I'm thinking many more road trips or series like that may indeed kill me at least.

Thomas - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 08:37 AM EDT (#184105) #

I thought Ricciardi was impressive on the post-game radio show.

I couldn't disagree more. I was so incensed by it I wrote up a feature on the piece that I decided (so far, at least) not to run. Aside from taking responsibility for the team's failures and defending Gibby from some undue criticism, I think several of his answers were, even for a call-in radio show, shallow attempts to dodge the question and misguided and occasionally hypocritical answers.

Perhaps the bar for your standards of what's impressive has been set so low by the Blue Jays offence that anything looks good in comparison?

Thomas - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 08:51 AM EDT (#184107) #

For example, a caller asked why McDonald didn't play more. JP replied that McDonald had to a tendency to break down over a full season and that's he not the offensive player Eckstein is. The latter is true and it did seem like McDonald's struggled more than usual with the bat when forced into everyday duty.

However, then Wilner interjected about using McDonald as a defensive sub for Eckstein and JP went on about 'it's not cost us many games' and 'it's not the reason the team's not winning' (approximate, if not exact quotes). Nobody was saying the team would be 17-10 if the team used McDonald as a defensive sub, but you can make a very compelling case it's led to one loss this season and might lead to a couple more if you compare it to a relatively strict policy of bringing in McDonald in the 7th/8th in any close game.

He didn't answer why the team wasn't doing this on a regular basis, he only went on about it not costing the team several games, which wasn't the original claim.

His Bonds answers were even worse.

Craig B - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 09:18 AM EDT (#184110) #

He was asked by one of the Bonds callers why the team stuck with Zaun after his less than satisfactory 'explanation' after the Mitchell report and Ricciardi candidly admitted that they likely would not have signed Zaun to a contract had the report been released, but it wasn't out when he was signed. I wonder how Zaun will take that. To heart, I hope.

I thought that was BS on Ricciardi's part - Zaun's explanation of the situation was full and complete, and backed up by the evidence in the Report itself. I understand the PR value of what Ricciardi said, but he lost even a little more respect in my eyes when he threw his player under the bus like that. Zaun has stood up for the team and the management when few others would, and this is how he was repaid. Sad.

Mike Green - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#184114) #

It's a little late to be commenting on Tuesday night's game, but I was travelling yesterday.

Vernon Wells' 9th inning told the tale of the game for me. In the top of the inning, his shot up the middle (which I thought deflected off Papelbon slightly) was snared by Pedroia very nicely. With two outs, Rolen would have surely scored from second had it gone through. In the bottom of the inning, Wells' difficulty coming in on the ball was exposed. With two outs and Big Papi on first and Ramirez at the plate, he was rightly playing very deep and so he had no play on what seemed likely to be a catchable ball. With Youkilis at the plate and Ortiz on second with two outs, Wells was still playing deep and so when Youkilis singled up the middle and the ball started to die on the Fenway grass (as it always does), they waved the lumbering Ortiz and Wells bobbled the ball. I would have liked to have seen Wells playing further in.

A little bad luck and a little thing not done right all contributed to another 1 run loss. After last night's game, the team is now 3-12 in close games and 11-17 overall despite a positive run differential. Yuck.

John Northey - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#184116) #

For pure torture I present the last 4 games...
7 runs allowed over 4 games, under 2 per game.
7 runs scored over 4 games, under 2 per game.
Record: 1-3

The pitching right now is just amazing. The offense is equally amazing but in a bad way. Did someone bring in baseballs from the 1910's or something?

What is funny (sad) is that the 5 games before this 4 game streak were all loses where the Jays allowed 5 or more runs in each game but scored 3 or more (enough to win any of the past 4) 4 of those times.

The streak where the Jays score 5 or fewer runs is now up to 14 games with just 6 times all season that they have scored 6+ out of 28 games.

The 'good' news is that with a -3 luck rating the Jays are not the most unlucky in MLB. Atlanta is at -4 with no one else worse than -2. At 4.1 runs scored per game we are ahead of KC and Minnesota. Only Oakland has allowed fewer runs per game (to one decimal) than the Jays 4.0 (A's at 3.5).

Sigh. Still, at least the games are quick when it is 1-0 or 2-1.

ComebyDeanChance - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#184120) #

I thought that was BS on Ricciardi's part - Zaun's explanation of the situation was full and complete, and backed up by the evidence in the Report itself. It was? Kirk Radomski testified that he shipped steroids to Zaun at the Royals' clubhouse in 2003 and had a cheque for $500 from Zaun. Luis Perez testified that he personally obtained steroids for Zaun in 2003. He presumed that teammate Jason Grimsley had connected Zaun to him. They were both with the Marlins in 1998. Zaun declined to speak to the Mitchell Commission. When the Report was made public, he changed his phone number and declined interviews with the media for two months. After two months, he told the following story. He said that the $500 cheque was for Grimsley, but he didn't write Grimsley's name on it. He didn't know the purpose of the cheque to Grimsley, assuming it was either a debt or a bet. He said he didn't know Luis Perez. He said that he assumed Grimsley used the cheque for himself. He said that he wasn't going to take legal action against anyone, which would obviously have exposed him to testifying under oath where perjury is punishable. Zaun's explanation isn't consistent with the Report at all. Radomski testified under oath as part of a criminal proceeding. Luis Perez was with the Marlins in 1998, when Zaun was as well. Zaun could have spoken to investigators to refute claims being made, and chose not to, and his delay in giving any response, his failure to take any legal action (particularly against Perez) and expose himself to testifying under oath, all of these point to what we see from the steroid guys time and time again - trying to lie their way out of it. It's one thing to cheat, it's another to lie and think the rest of the world is so gullible that they will believe stories like his, and Palmeiro's, and Clemens', and Bonds' etc.

ComebyDeanChance - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#184122) #

Sorry, the sentence about being connected by Grimsley should be one sentence earlier, after Radomski not Perez.

uglyone - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#184123) #

So Papelbon mows us down in the top of the 9th.

And then, with Ort'n'Manny coming up in the bottom of the 9th, I'm all psyched to come back from commerical and see BJ on the mound, ready to take them out.

But it was Downs instead.

I'm not one to complain too much about pitching changes, and I like Downs and all, but that's just a bad call. a very bad call.

Ryan HAS to go in there. Gibbons always complains how Ort/Manny always seem to magically come up in the 9th.....and then, with a well-rested BJ waiting, he chooses to go with his 2nd best option.

The_Game - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#184126) #

I thought Ricciardi was impressive on the post-game radio show.

Wow, as long as there are sheep like you for fans in this city, JP Ricciardi has absolutely nothing to worry about.

Personally, I've never heard such BS come out of him like that. Almost every answer he gave didn't make any sense. He says he wouldn't have signed Zaun (which is a pretty horrible thing to say about your starting catcher), but then lists him off as a character player on the team. And then he actually has the nerve to serve as some kind of moral compass for the fans? What a joke of a general manager this guy turned out to be.

However, one doesn't change their tune that much in one week without a little bit of help. Godfrey clearly had something to do with what we heard last night.

The_Game - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#184127) #

Oh and I forgot the best part. "John McDonald is probably a better defender than David Eckstein."

ayjackson - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#184136) #

Oh and I forgot the best part. "John McDonald is probably a better defender than David Eckstein."

If this was indeed the best part, then you are probably not an objective critic of JP Ricciardi. Either you doubt that MacDonald is a better defender than Eckstein, or that you believe that JP should have said it categorically and failing to do so is somehow reprehensible.

I, for one, agree with JP that JMac is probably a better defender than Eckstein.

'probably' definition:

with considerable certainty; without much doubt; easy to believe on the basis of available evidence

China fan - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#184144) #

In addition, of course, it's considered impolite for any GM to state publicly that one of his players is better than another player, even if it's obvious to everyone. If Ricciardi was comparing Rios to Stewart, he would say that "Rios is probably a better hitter than Stewart." He wouldn't make a flat statement that Rios is superior to Stewart (even if we all know it statistically) because it might cause insult to Stewart, and no GM wants to insult one of his own players. So it's not at all surprising that Ricciardi would describe McDonald as "probably" a better fielder than Eckstein. That's how a GM softens the blow. You can't blame him for the occasional euphemism.

The_Game - Thursday, May 01 2008 @ 08:14 PM EDT (#184178) #

Ayjackson, I would have thought it was faily obvious that I'm not being objective anymore. I mean are you actually showing me the definition of "probably?" If JP was going to show confidence in his players, he would have said that McDonald is by far the better defensive SS, because that would actually be the truth. But instead...took the opportunity to bash John.

Anyway, the final straw for me was when he bashed some fans for wanting Barry Bonds to come to Toronto. He was really able to bash a lot of people in a short period of time last night.

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