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The Canadian Press is reporting that Adam Lind has received the call up and will be starting in left field and batting eight for the Blue Jays today. Thanks to many for bringing up rumours. Jeff Blair's take is here. Joe Inglett is the man getting sent down.

Lind was hitting .365/.423/.587 in AAA, with 3 home runs, 6 walks and 10 strikeouts through 69 PAs.




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Magpie - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#183790) #
"Our long national nightmare is over."
 -- Gerald Ford, August 9, 1974

Hey, kid. Welcome aboard. In case no one's told you, there are concerns that the season is swirling down the drain.

No pressure.

CaramonLS - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#183791) #
Just in case you haven't heard yet Adam, you're our savior - Not to mention the roster replacement for a future hall of famer.

As Magpie said... no pressure.

robertdudek - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#183792) #
Just in case you haven't heard yet Adam, you're our savior - Not to mention the roster replacement for a future hall of famer.

You seem to be a little more bullish on Joe Inglett than I am. -;)


uglyone - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#183793) #

Adam is a solid biblical name and all, but Jesus might be more appropriate.

 

Agreed, though - no pressure. none whatsoever.

braden - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 07:41 PM EDT (#183796) #

On a clear ball, Lind just grounded into a fielder's choice.

Send him down. Free....Ryan Patterson!

uglyone - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 08:03 PM EDT (#183798) #
can't hit, can't field - bring back Shannon.
soupman - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 08:09 PM EDT (#183799) #
SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!

...and so on

/removes nerd glasses and steps out from mom's basement

greenfrog - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 09:16 PM EDT (#183801) #
Is it just me, or has Vernon basically given up on going the other way? Driving some balls to right-center might reduce the Ks and left-side groundouts.
Ishai - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#183802) #
D. D. Animal
ramone - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 09:32 PM EDT (#183803) #

Agreed, Vernon does not look good right now, Stairs need to be clean up, maybe Rolen 5th, and Wells 6th. 

scottt - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#183804) #
Trailing by 1, bases loaded with 2 outs  in the 8th.  No pressure at all.
Craig B - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#183805) #
Hey, kid. Welcome aboard. In case no one's told you, there are concerns that the season is swirling down the drain.

True, and while I'm thinking of it I'd like to get this one on the record when this season ultimately dissolves in an orgy of finger-pointing and character assassination.  The first person to sprain his thumb on the panic button was none other than our esteemed general manager, who said after the meeting where Frank was released, that the Jays couldn't afford to fall too far behind while they waited for him to turn things around.  The Jays were 10-10 at the time.  No one else anywhere, as far as I am aware, had suggested that the season was in jeopardy.

So later on, when the same guy takes a shot at somebody for suggesting that the team is dead in the water, I need to remember who said it first, to preserve my sanity.
Jdog - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#183806) #
Seriously when is this going to end.
robertdudek - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#183807) #
So later on, when the same guy takes a shot at somebody for suggesting that the team is dead in the water, I need to remember who said it first, to preserve my sanity.

Dear JP,

The ship is sinking.

Regards, your friend, Shea.


Craig B - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#183809) #
How long, O Lord, how long?!?


Mylegacy - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#183810) #

OK kiddies -

Eck (the guy I love to hate) just got a single in the ninth. Hill - mister choke of late is up and flies out to center - two out. Now comes the Great Casey to the bat - er Rios - one ball, one strike - shudder. Six straight losses. 1 in 14 with runners in scoring position. That has got to change - even roadkill gets the occassional hit.

The good news - we've finally got the team that we'll either sink or swim with. I am suprisingly calm. Now is the time to sit back, buy an extra large buttered popcorn and watch us get back into this race by the All-Star game. If not - well - I could always go to the UK and watch Cricket - not the game - just the little insect.

King Ryan - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#183811) #
I think I speak for all of us when I say...


...ARGH!!!!!
greenfrog - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#183812) #
Blue Jays 11 for their last 100 with RISP - per Mike Wilner. That is a truly amazing stat.

One player who impressed me tonight (apart from Marcum, who was terrific) was Eckstein. He had 3 hits and some great ABs after a rough night last night.

Jdog - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#183813) #

Not sure how it looked where everyone else was, but that ump had some interesting ball and strike calls tonight. One particular call that hurt was the first pitch to Lind in the 8th, clearly a ball. However he seemed equally bad and inconsistant with both clubs. Rolen looks fairly good so far to me. Zaun also had some good at bats.

The_Game - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#183815) #

I think I speak for all of us when I say...

I don't know, I find not having expectations helps the frustration.

Jake W - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#183817) #

Anyone have any thoughts about moving Hill up to leadoff, batting Overbay 2nd, dropping Eck to 9th and moving Zaun and Lind up to 7th and 8th?  It's been a year and a couple of months since Overbay has shown much extra base power and while he has a high OBP, most of it seems to be coming via the walk which doesn't result in RBIs.  Perhaps having him walk in front of Rios, Wells and Rolen will help produce some runs.  Batting Eck 9th means that if he does get on base he still gets driven in by Hill's doubles.  If the Jays are playing station-to-station and Eck isn't going to steal then maybe this is a profitable alternative.

It may be the case that Eck is more of a .330 OBP-type now and it's possible that Overbay may never get his home run power back in which case something must be done with him as the Jays are stuck with him at 1B until... Dopirak learns to hit offspeed stuff?!  What do you do with a first baseman who can get on-base at a .390 clip but can't slug .400?

brent - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#183821) #

game 25- WPA heroes Eckstein (6), Stairs (3), Marcum (3)      let downs Lind*, Wells (7), Hill (8), Rolen

* means more than +-.300

 

TamRa - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#183822) #
I vote for flipping Rolen and Wells in the order...


Lefty - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 11:35 PM EDT (#183823) #
I haven't heard JP give us last years patented line: "I still like our team".
King Ryan - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 11:48 PM EDT (#183824) #
All this talk about sinking ships and re-arranging the batting order. 

Well...there's a well-known analogy that fits here I think....
Shane - Saturday, April 26 2008 @ 11:53 PM EDT (#183825) #

Well...there's a well-known analogy that fits here I think....

Is it the one about the Titanic?

92-93 - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 12:21 AM EDT (#183826) #
1. Rios
2. Overbay
3. Rolen
4. Stairs
5. Wells
6. Hill
7. Lind
8. Zaun
9. Eckstein
katman - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 01:00 AM EDT (#183827) #
Some random thoughts amidst the disgust (11 for 100!):

Today was one thing - Jays really needed offense and were behind, so I don't object to Eckstein staying in. But the nonsense about playing Eckstein for 9 innings no matter what, even when we're leading in close games, while keeping a gold glover on the bench... has got to end. If it doesn't, I think we can legitimately begin to ask why Gibby still has a job because it's just poor managing.

Right now it's a race between Marco Scutaro and Shannon Stewart as to which player ends up being cut next. Joe Inglett probably replaces Scutaro with similar value ad a possible upside. As for LF...

This is a team that, quite frankly, needs a huge shakeup and a scary bat with power, plus a good OBP. Lind may be good, but isn't that. I don't care what Selig's office thinks - it's time to start thinking seriously about Barry Bonds as a LF/DH when Stewart goes - and the day a deal is worked out should be the end of Stewart's tenure.

Both Stairs, who has been surprisingly great given the hip, and "Free Adam" Lind, would still get a good playing time with Bonds around. Barry would rest some days, DH others. But Wells should not be hitting 3 or 4 in a major league lineup based on his performance last year and this year (6th more like), LF needs a serious bat upgrade, Stairs won't play every game and probably shouldn't field if his hip is a problem, and Rod Barajas is not a legitimate DH for a team with any pretense of contending. There may be players to be had cheap as a split boost - but I suspect Bonds would cost a lot less than most people would expect right now. And he'd fill holes and offer opportunities that a split-role player would not.

Yes, he comes with negatives. But (1) I think he would still be damn impressive even with no chemicals; and (b) as for clubhouse chemistry... precisely how much good is our present chemistry doing us right now?
halejon - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 01:05 AM EDT (#183828) #
I was wondering about this myself, I thought Marcum was getting some nice calls. Ran it through the pitch f/x 2000 and it looks like a pretty good night for the ump overall. Zaun got absolutely hosed in the 9th, but that pitch to Lind while just as often not called was technically a high strike.
John Northey - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 01:26 AM EDT (#183829) #
Well, at this point going for Bonds really isn't the #1 idea.  I'd love it, of course, but we now have two left handed hitting LF/DH's on the team who are either A) hitting well (Stairs) or B) Young and expected to hit.

Now, finding a right handed bat that is better than Stewart - that would be a fine idea.  Obvious options...
  1. Mike Piazza: emergency catcher, can play first thus can give Stairs a night off or Overbay.  A 96 OPS+ last year but that was his first sub-100 since he was a 23 year old rookie.  He is 39 though with a lot of miles on those legs but is a free agent still thus would be cheap and easy to release if needed.
  2. Josh Phelps: In AAA for St Louis but would be easy to get I'm certain.  Not hitting well at the moment (210/244/309) but hit 306/399/503 in limited playing time in the majors last year (183 PA) and lifetime in the majors is 273/344/476 112 OPS+ and vs LHP is 296/364/500 lifetime.  He caught some last year (4 games in the majors) thus is a solid emergency catcher, backup at first, DH just like Piazza would be.
  3. Reggie Sanders: had a 135 OPS+ for the Royals in just 85 PA's last year.  The past 5 years OPS+'s for him are 131-103-127-86-135.  If healthy why not?
  4. Sammy Sosa: tons of controversy?  Yup, but also hits lefties well still.  328-410-613 last season over 139 PA's, could platoon in LF or DH
  5. Julio Franco: OK, this is just because I'd love to see him play in the season he turns 50 during.  2005 was the last OPS+ over 100 but in extremely limited time  (35 PA) last year he did hit LHP to the tune of 250/400/393
Of course, they could go get Sal Fasano as he is still out there it appears along with Jason Phillips :)

I checked http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/06/free-agent-position-players.html to get an idea of who is available for nothing more than salary.
Magpie - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 01:51 AM EDT (#183830) #
Of that group, I would have liked Sanders best (well, I'll always like Julio best but he doesn't really fit this team's needs.). But Sanders said this winter that if he couldn't find a West Coast team that had some interest in him (and was a contender), he'd rather just retire. And presumably he has, although I may have missed the press conference.

Mind you, Piazza would be an upgrade on Barajas, no?

I think Stewart will eventually hit. But I do think that he's going to be day-to-day for the rest of his career. He's just got one of those bodies - could pull a muscle going across the street for a loaf of bread.
Magpie - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 02:22 AM EDT (#183831) #
Piazza is evidently interested in playing, but not just anywhere. (Apparently the Twins tried to trade for him last year, Piazza didn't want to go, and Beane did him a favour and didn't make the deal. The quid pro quo came this winter when Piazza declined the A's arbitration offer and became a free agent.) Apparently the Reds and Yankees both have expressed some interest. Piazza would prefer to go the NL; he'd rather be a backup catcher than a full-time DH anyway. He likes to catch. Go figure.

As for Julio - hey, he's playing most every day for los Tigres de Quintana Roo. He's been in a bit of a slump lately, and he's hitting .254/.358/.347. But he's spending his summer in Cancun, playing baseball. Damn! That sounds great!  Franco turns 50 in the last week of August, and come September 1 the Braves will almost surely sign him as a free agent to pinch hit a few times down the stretch. They were very pleased with what they got out of him last season.
timpinder - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 03:49 AM EDT (#183832) #

First of all, despite going 0 for 4 tonight, I have no doubt that Lind will hit.  This lineup is too good to keep struggling like this.  The bats will break out soon enough.  Now, I wouldn't mind seeing a cheap platoon partner for Stairs to DH against LHP, but I don't want Bonds here.  I just can't stand the guy.  I look at this lineup and pitching staff and know what Ricciardi sees.  They should be really good.  Hopefully it's just a slump.  If they don't come around though, I'd bet my house that the team will be blown up before the deadline with Burnett, Eckstein, Overbay, Stairs, and maybe even Rolen and Ryan, up for grabs.  I just don't think that's going to happen.

Getting back to Lind, as it turns out, Gibbons was apparently pressing to have Lind called up earlier but was denied.  Service time was the problem, money was the issue.  Ouch.  As a die hard fan, that really irks me.  My wife and I will be renting our movies from Blockbuster from now on and I'm switching my home phone and cellular to Bell!

Here's the source:

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080426.wspt-jays-royals26/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home

Dave Till - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 09:10 AM EDT (#183833) #
Wow, this is depressing.

I'm wondering whether a flu bug is running through the team right now. Rios was out for a bit; if one guy gets it, usually they all get it. (Major league clubhouses are obviously not very sanitary places.) Perhaps they're not hitting because they all feel awful?

Or perhaps they're just pressing. Batting slumps can be contagious, especially when everybody knows that the team is hitting something like .037 with runners in scoring position. There's a sense of, "It's all up to me," and the result is another infield popup with a runner on third and one out. Vernon Wells, in particular, seems vulnerable to this; I'd move him out of the #4 slot, tell him to just relax, play centre field awesomely, and whatever happens, happens.

Rolen does look pretty good (based on the two games I've listened to on the radio, before I turned it off due to excessive gloom). After having been Tony LaRussa's personal whipping boy for two years, he can probably handle the pressure of being The Man in Toronto; I'd put him at #4 as soon as he's completely healthy.

And I am glad that Adam Lind is finally free. He needs a full shot at a starting job; the Jays need to learn whether he will be a long-term solution, or whether they have to wait for Travis Snider to grow up. Lind's career path has been remarkably similar to Vernon Wells': both men shot through the minors and had a year in which they regressed.

By the way, Frank Thomas is 1 for 10 in Oakland as I write this; he's had one single. He's now at .157. And Troy Tulowitzki ("the next Derek Jeter!") is currently batting .165 for the Colorado Rockies. So perhaps we should hold off on the J.P. Ricciardi Necktie Party for a while yet. :-) (Then again, Reed Johnson is hitting .324 for the Cubbies. No one's perfect.)

Dave Till - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 09:17 AM EDT (#183834) #
One more thing:

The first person to sprain his thumb on the panic button was none other than our esteemed general manager, who said after the meeting where Frank was released, that the Jays couldn't afford to fall too far behind while they waited for him to turn things around.  The Jays were 10-10 at the time.  No one else anywhere, as far as I am aware, had suggested that the season was in jeopardy.

Maybe J.P., or John Gibbons, thinks that his job is on the line this year. The Jays are expected to win, or at least contend; if they don't, Ted Rogers might want some heads to roll. Job insecurity tends to lead to panic.

Mike Green - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 09:41 AM EDT (#183835) #
In unrelated news, Guillermo Quiroz, Dioner Navarro, Joe Mauer and Jeff Mathis all played yesterday.  As far as I can tell, this is the first time that they have played on the same day since Aaron Gleeman and I made our bet oh so many years ago.  Quiroz homered for the O's.  Navarro pinch-hit a single in the eighth inning in front of Iwamura's 2 out 2 run homer in the 8th to hang a really tough loss on Clay Bucholz.  Mauer went 2-4 and scored 3 runs in a Twin laugher, while Mathis took a quiet 1-4 in a Halo loss to the Tigers. 

After the rough starts to the careers of Quiroz, Navarro and Mathis, it would be amusing if all four of them went on to be solid major league catchers.  It might yet happen, although the odds against Quiroz are pretty stiff.

grjas - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#183842) #
I vote for flipping Rolen and Wells in the order...

Well this didn't take long. While Wells was knocking the cover off the ball, no one said a word. Once the league saw one turkey after another hitting behind him, he got pitched around. And guess what: he's pressing.

May be Rolen will eventually have to move up the order. But it would be nice to cut Wells a bit of slack. He carried the team for a week or two which is more than you can say about any other batter in this lineup.
scottt - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#183843) #
I'm sure no one is suggesting Gibbons is responsible for every losses.

I wouldn't mess with the lineup. Hill, Wells, even Rios are in a bit of a slump. Not going to last.


Shane - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#183848) #

Well this didn't take long. While Wells was knocking the cover off the ball, no one said a word. Once the league saw one turkey after another hitting behind him, he got pitched around. And guess what: he's pressing.

Well he may infact be pressing and coming up with sub-par results. But really, it's hard to pitch around Wells if he won't let you, what with his own form of strikezone and overly aggresive batting approach. It Wells fault if he won't take BB's if they're being offered to him. Overbay and Zaun don't seem to have a problem with it.

greenfrog - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#183850) #
I wouldn't mess with the lineup. Hill, Wells, even Rios are in a bit of a slump. Not going to last.

Wells's career OPS against RHP is 776, which isn't good enough for a cleanup hitter, especially in our division. Against LHP, his career OPS is much higher: 901.

Scott Rolen's career OPS against righties is 865, almost 100 points better than V-Dub. Of course, that includes some monster years from his prime. But if Rolen shows he can still hit, I would rather see him hitting 4th.
Ishai - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#183854) #
The question with what to do with Stewart is similar to what it was with Thomas: How long should elderly players who have hit for their whole careers be given before it is decided that they have run out of gas?

Personally I think the Jays are panicking too soon, not because the lack of Right-handed DH hitting is not a problem, it is a problem, but because dumping these players for other elderly Right-handed DH options seems unlikely to produce better results. Is an old hitter who is slumping less likely to hit later in the year than an old hitter who isn't even on a team? I tend to agree with JP's defense that Stewart is a career 300 hitter, and will come around, although using that argument somewhat undermines the case that Thomas should be benched because he wasn't hitting. He, too, is a career 300 hitter.

This offseason JP acquired some players in their mid-30's who could run out of gas at any moment, which is a clever strategy for a mid-market team trying to compete again large market teams (it is easier to find a good deal on older players), but makes the question of when a player has run out of gas very important. If we jettison too many parts, it will reach a point where the replacements will have a smaller likelihood of contributing. That said, I am curious if anyone has a way of deciding when a player is done, how long should they be given?
GregJP - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#183858) #
Wells's career OPS against RHP is 776

I hadn't realized how poorly Wells has done in his career against righties.  That is MI hitting 7th or 8th in the batting order poorly.
Anders - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#183859) #
Well this didn't take long. While Wells was knocking the cover off the ball, no one said a word. Once the league saw one turkey after another hitting behind him, he got pitched around. And guess what: he's pressing.

Well Wells isn't getting pitched around at the moment, though I agree it is ridiculously short sighted to push the panic button at this point. However, as has been pointed out, Wells might not have been the best choice to hit 4th - I didn't think so before the year, nor when the Jays got off to their hot start.
scottt - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#183860) #
Wells's career OPS against RHP is 776, which isn't good enough for a cleanup hitter, especially in our division. Against LHP, his career OPS is much higher: 901.

Scott Rolen's career OPS against righties is 865, almost 100 points better than V-Dub. Of course, that includes some monster years from his prime. But if Rolen shows he can still hit, I would rather see him hitting 4th.


I'd still give it a month. Rolen is still banged up. Career numbers aren't so important because both players have had up and down years and it's to soon to tell what kind of year they're having.


scottt - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#183862) #
Based on today's lineup, I'd say Gibbons is standing on the panic button.
GregJP - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#183863) #
Based on today's lineup, I'd say Gibbons is standing on the panic button.

I disagree.  Overbay (high OBP) should be hitting near the top of the order, and I have no problem with Rios leading off.  As long as Eckstein is NOT leading off it is an improved lineup.
GregJP - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#183865) #
Joe Carter was a very good baseball player, but he was a terrible commentator, and what he is spewing right now on the telecast is mindless blather.  I love you Joe, but STFU.
scottt - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#183866) #
Hopefully Gibbons doesn't freak out again. He got his 2 innings of shutout ball.
greenfrog - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#183869) #
Does anyone else find those abbreviated "autotrader.ca" commercials (flashed in between pitches) incredibly annoying?
Nick Holmes - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#183871) #
Does anyone else find those abbreviated "autotrader.ca" commercials (flashed in between pitches) incredibly annoying?

Yes, and I sent a grouchy email to their sales dept.

sales@trader.ca
John Northey - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#183873) #
All in favour of Gibbons yelling and swearing at other pitchers when they have bad outings raise your hands.

7 IP so far 1 ER, 2 runs total, 0 walks, 4 K's, 5 hits, 93 pitches.  Sweet.  Only problem is he'll have to be sworn at next time he has a bad game :)

Matthew E - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#183876) #
If the Jays aren't careful, they could win this game.
John Northey - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#183877) #
Just call Litsch the stopper.

5 times through the rotation and Litsch is the only one with 3 wins.  Go figure.  Litsch and Burnett are the two slow pokes in ERA, the rest of the rotation is above 100 for ERA+ with Marcum at 132 leading the way.

Huh.  The #4 guy has the best ERA and highest strikeout total, while the #5 guy has the most wins.  Accardo leads in saves at 4 and in losses at 3.

Flex - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#183878) #
So I read the box score but missed the game and one thing leaps out at me. Why was Ryan used in a hold situation and Carlson given the save? I can see not using Ryan at all, or using him to close out a game. One or the other. But this makes, to me, absolutely no sense.

Happy for the win, but scratching my head. Was there some explanation for this during the game? I'd love to hear it.
scottt - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#183879) #
Overbay (high OBP) should be hitting near the top of the order, and I have no problem with Rios leading off.

Overbay's career OBP is .364. Hitting in front of Stewart and Scutaro has helped inflate his current numbers. I'd be surprised to see him walk a lot in the #2 slot, especially since he's not getting much extra base hits.

I don't mind him there, but that's because it spreads the left bats.
John Northey - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#183880) #
I 'saw' it on gameday and thought 'wow, Gibbons using the closer when it is most important - what do you know!'.  In the 8th it was a one run lead and a fair number of lefties coming up.  That was the best time for using your best reliever and he did use him. 

Now, if Gibbons can keep doing stuff like that I'll start regaining respect for his judgment as that is a move that should be done but isn't and can give the Jays an advantage over guys using closers for 3 run leads in the 9th only.

timpinder - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#183881) #

Flex,

I think that Gibbons was going to use Ryan for a two inning save.  At least, that's what Fletcher and Campbell were suggesting.  After throwing only 9 pitches in the 8th, I wouldn't have had a problem seeing him come out for the 9th.  However, the Jays then scored two runs and took a three run lead, and it was at that point that Ryan headed off the bench, likely to get his work in on the side.  My guess is that if the game was still 3-2 going into the 9th, Ryan would have come back out.  That's how Fletcher saw it too. 

Speaking of Fletcher, is he ever a nice reprieve from Rance Mullinicks, who in my opinion might be worse than Carter.

scottt - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 05:45 PM EDT (#183882) #
I 'saw' it on gameday and thought 'wow, Gibbons using the closer when it is most important - what do you know!'.  In the 8th it was a one run lead and a fair number of lefties coming up.  That was the best time for using your best reliever and he did use him.

I'm skeptical that the 8th, 9th, and 1st hitters were seen as more dangerous than the heart of the order. More likely, Gibbons panicked and decided to use Ryan for a 2 inning save. I would have no problem with that if Ryan was back at 100%.

Good thing tomorrow is a day off. Gibbons will probably ride Rolen until something gives.
greenfrog - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#183883) #
Yes, and I sent a grouchy email to their sales dept.

Writing Rogers might make more sense, since it would likely be more concerned about losing viewers. Autotrader is probably happy that its ads are getting noticed, even a negative light (any publicity being good publicity).
deep dish - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#183884) #
Speaking of Fletcher, is he ever a nice reprieve from Rance Mullinicks, who in my opinion might be worse than Carter.

Having Fletcher around is like watching the game with a good buddy who knows a lot about baseball, breaks down the game and makes you laugh.  Rance... well, I never liked him as a player (when I started watching in about 1987) and I find his analysis very old school; his tone also leaves a lot to be desired.

I remember a point last year when Campbell was talking about a speed dating promotion the Jays were running, Campbell was being a bit jokey about it and the camera shot of Rance made him look like he wished the ground would swallow him up.


CaramonLS - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#183885) #
ABT - Anyone but Tabler.

Honestly, Rance is easily the smartest one out of the bunch and by far my favorite.  He has a lot of great insight into the game and pitch selection in particular.  He makes a couple head scratchers on occasion like "clogging the bases", but overall does a superb job.

Anders - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#183886) #
I'm skeptical that the 8th, 9th, and 1st hitters were seen as more dangerous than the heart of the order. More likely, Gibbons panicked and decided to use Ryan for a 2 inning save. I would have no problem with that if Ryan was back at 100%.

I'm almost certain that, as had been mentioned, Gibbons went to Ryan to get the two lefties with Tony Pena Jr. in between, up by a run. He did, the Jays scored, and Gibbons wisely decided not to use Ryan again with less leverage. While the merits of using Ryan for two innings can be debated, he used his closer and arguably best reliever in a high leverage situation as opposed to waiting for the ninth, and it paid off. I don't see where the grousing comes from.

If anything, the Jays have been overly cautious about injuries, giving people plenty of days off and not taxing BJ unduly - he hadn't pitched in several days. The starters are not going too deep into games other that Doc either.
Gerry - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 06:16 PM EDT (#183887) #
Ryan needed to get an inning in after 3 days rest and an-off day tomorrow.  If Gibbons had left Ryan to the ninth and KC had gone ahead in the bottom of the eighth then Ryan wouldn't have got to pitch.
Magpie - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 07:17 PM EDT (#183888) #
And unlike many closers, Ryan doesn't need the save. He's not negotiating a new deal for a couple more years.
CeeBee - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 07:22 PM EDT (#183890) #
Nicely pitched game and nothing like a bit of luck here and there to break the streak. 3 1/2 back in the East is not insurmountable if the Jays can reel off a 7 out of 10 streak or two.
Flex - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#183891) #
Okay, thanks for the explanations on Ryan. Just to clear up any confusion, I wasn't actually grousing about using Ryan in the 8th, I just didn't get it. But now, thanks to my BB friends, I have a very clear picture. It all makes sense. Gibbons was giving his team its best shot to survive the game, and it worked. And I think Magpie's observation is a good one - Ryan's in the position of not needing to hoard saves, so it's no skin off his nose.

I come to Batter's Box and am enlightened.
Jdog - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#183892) #

I'd still give it a month. Rolen is still banged up. Career numbers aren't so important because both players have had up and down years and it's to soon to tell what kind of year they're having.

I don't quite get this logic. How do you give it a month to figure out today's lineup.  Im of the opinion the lineup should be adjusted ever so often according to how hitters are hitting at any given time in a season. I thought today's lineup was well thought out,  as two good hitters who have been slumping were dropped down a little(Hill and Wells). I dont think Gibbons needs to be married to any set lineup and should be adjusting it when the need arises. 

Mike Green - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#183893) #
That was pretty much optimal use of the pen.  This club can now run out a pretty good starting lineup against right-handed pitching, with players who can reach base 1-9. 

timpinder - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#183894) #

According to Gibbons, the new lineup changes will persist.  Gibbons is going to use Eckstein as the #2 hitter from now on.  I don't agree with that decision and am baffled by their obsession with Eckstein.

Anyway, my guess is the lineup will be similar to tonight's going forward:

Rios
Eckstein
Rolen
Stairs
Wells
Overbay
Hill
Lind
Zaun

I don't like Eckstein hitting second, but at least the left-handed hitters would be more evenly spread through the lineup.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080427.wblair28/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home

Shane - Sunday, April 27 2008 @ 11:21 PM EDT (#183896) #

Seeing the line-up trotted out today was very much a surprise and refreshing. I mean come on, Wells vs Righties finally dropped in the line-up card will you get a tad hopeful. But now that Eckstein is only being dropped from 1 to 2 and Overbay (whose only use to this point being his high walk accumulated OBP) is still left lower in the order, rather than at the 2 hole (or 1 hole for that matter), leave me still at indifference to giving a frig about what comes next. What's the difference John? if Eckstein goes from 1 to 2 in the line-up? Without getting into line-up composition wars vs. studies findings... **** it! Whatever John, your job not mine.

timpinder - Monday, April 28 2008 @ 02:03 AM EDT (#183900) #

Some bad news:  Carlson got the save last night because Downs was unavailable with, "tenderness in his shoulder".  It's not known if it's serious or not, but "tenderness in his shoulder" in Blue Jays' speak could mean anything.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/baseball

In other Jays' news (sort of), David Bush has been sent to AAA.  Was I ever wrong on the Overbay trade.  I thought it was terrible deal at the time because Bush had a great WHIP and had showed signs that he could be a very good #4 starter, Jackson was a big 1st round lefty, and Gross was full of potential as well.  That trade has turned out alright afterall, assuming Overbay finds his lost power stroke, and I'm sure he will.

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