Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

TDIB 3rd April 2008

That's a bit more like it.

The Good Guys won it 5-2 in the Bronx last night. AJ pitched into the seventh and looked good, I don't think he had his best fastball, but his changeup was good and he seemed to gain more and more confidence with his curve as the game progressed. Brian Tallett came in for the 7th and 8th and looked very comfortable, before giving way to Accardo for the save. Accardo had hardly drawn breath before he was in a jam, through no fault of his own, after Hill lost the handle on a grounder and Abreu blooped a single in front of Wells. He recovered well to strikeout Arod and quickly set the next two hitters down. The hitting wasn't quite so impressive last night, even against the shadow of Mike Mussina's former self. Wells at least was htting the ball with authority, but Eckstein still hasn't hit one out of the infield and Thomas continues to look ineffective and mystified.

* Aaron Hill is wasted in the seventh spot in the lineup. He should be hitting first or second.

* The Jays hit into five double plays - I'm imagining Shea Hillenbrand in a hunting blind somewhere sticking pins into a Jays voodoo doll and cackling quietly to himself.

* Marty Pevey was channeling 'Wave Em Home' Wendell Kim last night. If Abreu had made a couple of straight throws two Jays runners could have been out by ten feet instead of scoring. Let's hope this was just a bad day at the office for Pevey, the last thing the Jays need is to find another way to beat themselves.

Trivia - this came up in the game chat: apart from Jeter with the Evil Empire and Varitek with the Just as Evil Empire, who else in MLB gets to feel all self important by wearing a C on their chest ?

Game Day - Dustin McGowan (expected to be over his flu) is set to go against Phil Hughes tonight. McGowan garnered a lot of pundit attention over the winter after his strong second half last year, he was even mentioned as a sleeper for the Cy Young award. I'm hoping Brandon League gets into tonight's game, I think he's going to be a very important player for the jays this year and I'm eager to see what he's got.

Elsewhere it was a very good day for some unheralded starting pitchers. Sabermetric favourite Brain Bannister (7 IP 0R), Tim Redding (Tim Redding!) (7IP 0R), Joe Saunders (8IP 0R), Nick Blackburn (7IP 1R) and Carlos Silva (7IP 1R) and had terrific performances yesterday.

Posted by Gwyn on Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 07:54 AM EDT.

TDIB 3rd April 2008 | 68 comments | Create New Account

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China fan - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 08:29 AM EDT (#181987) #

As I mentioned in the other thread, I'd like to see Hill and Overbay moved up in the lineup. Of course the Jays don't want to demolish Eckstein's self-confidence by putting him at the bottom of the lineup immediately, but if he doesn't begin hitting within a series or two, it will have to be considered. On days when Stewart is playing, I'd like to see the following lineup: Stewart, Hill, Rios, Wells, Overbay, Thomas, Scutaro, Zaun/Barajas, Eckstein. (And when Rolen returns to the lineup., he could bat 5th, pushing Thomas further down the lineup if he's still slumping.) Eckstein could still lead off when Stairs is in the lineup, but I don't want to see the Jays getting locked into a policy that has Eckstein as the permanent leadoff guy, every game, for the entire season.

Pistol - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 08:47 AM EDT (#181988) #

Talk about a short leash - it's been 2 games.

I thought it was a little odd that the Jays didn't put McDonald in for the 9th as Eckstein had just hit to end the 8th.

I'm not sure how they'd break it up, but it was nice to see Tallet get 3 lefties in a row when he came in with Giambi, Matsui and Cano. Then a light hitting Molina and two more lefties.

mathesond - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 08:57 AM EDT (#181989) #

I had forgotten about Abreu's throws - quite the source of amusement for me and mine.

Mind you, if Burnett pitches all year like he did last night, I can see the Yankees offering a good portion of Abreu's $16M that will be coming off the books...

greenfrog - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 08:59 AM EDT (#181990) #

With Scott Rolen already out possibly until early May after finger surgery and Marco Scutaro needing X-rays last night after he was hit on the hand with a pitch,

This was mentioned in passing in the Blair article. Any news on Scutaro's hand?

Because it's early April, I didn't mind Gibbons having extra arms warming in the ninth in case Accardo ran into trouble. As the season goes on, I hope he trusts his relievers more and saves the bullpen arms. My other concern is burning the starters' arms with overlong outings. We have a great bullpen, so there's no need for it. But Gibbons seems to pretty much ignore pitch counts (especially in multiple consecutive starts), especially when it comes to Halladay and AJ. And Marcum and Litsch may be more effective (and healthy) over 160-180 innings than 200+.

I would bat Hill second. A better (pre-Rolen) lineup might look something like:

Stewart
Hill
Rios
Wells
Overbay
Zaun
Thomas
Scutaro
Eckstein

I think Gibbons will revamp his lineup eventually. He probably doesn't want to yank Eckstein, his anointed leadoff hitter, from that slot after two games, though.

China fan - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 09:06 AM EDT (#181991) #

Greenfrog, that was almost exactly my suggestion for the lineup. (Except when Stairs is in the lineup.) I don't mind seeing Zaun or Barajas in the 7 slot or the 8 slot -- either is okay. But the key is to get Hill into the top of the lineup -- there is every indication that Hill is going to have an excellent season this year. (I'm keeping in mind his impressive slugging in spring training, which I don't think was a fluke.)

SK in NJ - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#181992) #

The best lineup the Jays could put on the field based on the available players right now might be: Stewart, Hill, Rios, Wells, Overbay, Thomas, Scutaro, Zaun, and Eckstein. I doubt the Jays will take Eckstein out of the lead-off spot this soon, but it's something to consider if he continues to look this anemic. I think he'll right himself eventually. He's been too consistent of a hitter over the years. As long as he puts up a .350 OBP, I'll be satisfied. Although I can see why many people here were dreading the hype around him. Michael Kay went all out on the YES broadcast talking about Eckstein's grit and intangibles, praising him for fouling off pitches and moving Barajas to 3rd on a grounder. Hey, as long as he's doing it for one of our guys, I have no problem with it.

Hopefully the Jays can win the series tonight. This is a team that simply cannot afford to hover around .500 for the first few months because it's not like they are the Yankees who can turn up the gears in the 2nd half. The goal should be to be at least 10 over .500 ASAP and not look bad. Easier said than done, obviously.

Leigh - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 09:33 AM EDT (#181996) #

Just as Evil Empire

I like it.

I also like "Lesser of Two Evil Empires", which (a Google search reveals) may have been coined (at least in relation to baseball) right here at Batter's Box nearly four years ago.

Jbar - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#182005) #

Love the "just as evil" Empire. It reminds me of the old satirewire post on the "Axis of Just as Evil" in honour of State of the Union address from a few years back. Here's to hoping we can take an early 2-1 advantage on the original Imperial evil-doers.

uglyone - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#182006) #

I like Stewart and all, but putting him at leadoff at the expense of putting Thomas (our best hitter last year) in the 7 slot? I can't see that being the best option.

A.Hill
L.Overbay
A.Rios
V.Wells
F.Thomas
S.Rolen
M.Stairs / S.Stewart
G.Zaun / R.Barajas
D.Eckstein

Dan Daoust - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#182008) #

Michael Kay went all out on the YES broadcast talking about Eckstein's grit and intangibles, praising him for fouling off pitches and moving Barajas to 3rd on a grounder.

Boy, you said it. Him and Paul O'Neill were falling all over each other in praise of the Eck. I loved it in particular when O'Neill was saying how even if Eckstein were on a high school team, he still wouldn't stand out, but he just does the little things so well...

Eckstein, Brett Favre and Tyler Hansborough: the three greatest competitors known to man. There's something else they have in common, but I can't quite put my finger on it...

timpinder - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#182009) #

I put this in the other thread but since lineups are being discussed, it's probably more appropriate here:

I understand the rational behind leading off with a guy who gets on base and has speed so that he can be slugged home by the big bats behind him. However, there's also the argument that your best hitters should get the most at-bats. When Rolen returns, Gibbons is likely to have Overbay and Hill hitting in the 7th and 8th spots. Overbay's career .816 OPS and Hill's 2007 .792 OPS will see far fewer plate appearances over the course of the season than Eckstein's career .713 OPS. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I agree with Mike Green, and that is that I'd like to see Eckstein hit 9th. Then he can get on base for a lead-off hitter like Hill to drive him home with a double. I'd like to see Stairs DH some, but that's not likely to happen, so I'd go with an order of Hill-Rios-Rolen-Wells-Overbay-Thomas-Stairs-Zaun-Eckstein. Maybe I'd switch Rolen and Wells or move Overbay up and Stairs ahead of Thomas. It doesn't really matter, but I don't like Eckstein and Stewart getting more at-bats at the top of the order than Overbay and Hill.

ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#182010) #

Eckstein, Brett Favre and Tyler Hansborough: the three greatest competitors known to man. There's something else they have in common, but I can't quite put my finger on it...

I'm not sure if you're implying the "only white people are considered great competitors" thing here, but I wonder if anyone has actually ever tested to see if that theory stands up to scrutinization.

I don't usually pay much attention to people who are given those attributes, so the list off the top f my head of other great competitors is pretty short, but Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods are at the top of it. They don't follow that stereotype.

Geoff - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#182011) #

If Thomas is struggling to hit the Mendoza line through April and May, there's no excuse to bat him in the lineup at all. He might as well take a Roger Clemens hiatus and come play in June.

Also, if the Jays are serious about being aggressive on the basepaths, sticking Overbay in front of Rios will not be advisable. I'd sooner see Lyle hit cleanup with Stewart -Stairs batting second.

ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#182012) #

Also, if the Jays are serious about being aggressive on the basepaths, sticking Overbay in front of Rios will not be advisable. I'd sooner see Lyle hit cleanup with Stewart -Stairs batting second.

On the opposite side of things, there is an article in the Sun on how the Jays have done better so far against other team's baserunners. I hadn't heard it discussed before, but it sounds like Burnett has really concentrated on improving in this area this year.

Mick Doherty - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#182013) #

Agree, CJF. The only difference is that Jordan and Woods are incontrovertibly at the top of their respective sports, while, for instance, Favre is the only one of the three mentiond above who is -- Hansborough will be a middling NBA sixth man, Eckstein is a nice player, Favre is a Hall of Famer.

That's anecdotal at best, of course.

HollywoodHartman - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#182014) #

I recall reading he was the easiest guy to steal off of in the AL last year. Something like 28 for 28 against him. If his keeping walks down and keeping baserunners at first is for real.... watch out AL.

ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#182015) #

That's anecdotal at best, of course.

Thought of another one closer to home in Toornto - Alvin Williams is a guy that was always considered a competitor - he's probably more in the line of Eckstein and Hansborough.

Dan Daoust, in future, if you do have evidence of a tendency to over-subscribe white players with attributes like "great competitor" I think you should present it before implying that Michael Kay and Paul O'Neill are racist (even if it's only to a slight degree). Race-based things shouldn't be casually tossed out there or implied, IMO.

Thomas - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#182016) #

On the YES broadcast O'Neill mentioned that Stairs sought him out during BP today and criticized him for talking about how tough it was to get players to play in Toronto because "you have to go through customs" and it's "a different culture up there." Stairs went on to defend Toronto (and Canada) and talk about what a great city it was to play in.

I'm a bit surprised everyone's talking about lineup changes already. It's been two games. If it's like this after ten days then it's something to talk about, but Gibbons had all spring to look at Eckstein and Thomas and decided to hit them where they are. He's not going to change the lineup now, I wouldn't imagine. Besides, McDonald's going to get to play soon, so we'll see a non-Eckstein lineup in a day or two anyway. We wouldn't pull Marcum from the rotation after two starts, would we?

I agree, Tallet looked very effective last night and didn't even seem to throw his newly-learned slider once. I've stuck up for the guy before and it's good to see him continue to look like a fine second lefty in the pen. I was surprised Gibbons left him in for two, but I think he might have decided that on the fly after he looked so good in the first frame.

Alex Obal - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#182017) #

I think the plan was to ride Tallet for six batters - Giambi, Cano, Matsui, Molina, Cabrera and Damon - regardless of how well he did, and come back with a righty to face everyone else. If that was the plan, it was a very good one. Can't use Downs all the time.

I'd be curious to know if anyone ever got up in the pen in the 8th inning, when, if anyone reached base, Jeter would have been the fourth guy due up. That would give some clues about Gibbons' strategy to start the year.

#2JBrumfield - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#182018) #

Tallet looked very effective last night and didn't even seem to throw his newly-learned slider once

Mad props to Wolverine!! He looked good last night.

Speaking of impressive relief performances, who was the guy impersonating Miguel Batista in Seattle? He got the save with a 1-2-3 9th against Texas last night as J.J. Putz is on the DL with a rib problem. He went right after the hitters instead of taking 20 minutes to decide which of his eight pitches he was going to throw. As the French say, "Incroyable!"

Magpie - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#182019) #

Eckstein, Brett Favre and Tyler Hansborough: the three greatest competitors known to man. There's something else they have in common, but I can't quite put my finger on it...

I'm sure he's implying that only white guys are considered great competitors.

I don't think it's as true as it used to be, but it's still around, and I think it's worth being on the lookout for. To guard against. The grittiest, scrappiest, most competitive athlete I can remember seeing in my life is Allen Iverson, and I do think there's some general recognition of that fact. But I don't think the basketball world is quite as tied to ancient patterns of thinking as the baseball world. Or the hockey world.

Now how often is a big guy regarded as a scrappy competitor?

Magpie - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#182021) #

But Gibbons seems to pretty much ignore pitch counts (especially in multiple consecutive starts), especially when it comes to Halladay and AJ.

I'm not sure about that, but we may be proceeding from different assumptions. Its very likely, in fact.

I normally don't mind 120 pitch outings, not from fully mature starting pitchers (on this team, Halladay and Burnett qualify, and no one else.) Now I don't want to see them do it every time. And I'm also much more willing to allow it from Halladay (because he works so efficiently that the clock time of the game is shorter as well.)

Anyway, last year Halladay did have three consecutive 120+ outings at one point: his starts of Aug 29, Sep 4, and Sep 10. But he's Roy Halladay, and it didn't set him back at all - he made three more starts after that, won twice and was outstanding in the no-decision (the Yankee game that Aaron Hill coughed up in the ninth inning.)

Burnett can't quite carry the same load, I think. He never did make three 120+ starts in a row. But as we well remember, Gibbons leaned on him very heavily in May (Doc was out, everything was falling to pieces) - Burnett made three starts of 127, 118, and 131 and promptly went on the DL. The 131 pitches in the Tampa game was the most by any Jays starter. Later, in September, Burnett made consecutive starts of 120, 126, and 119 and then got knocked around a bit in the season finale.

McGowan had one start over 112 pitches - his CG win over Boston (122 pitches) in September. That pitch total, at that point of the season, in an isolated start doesn't bother me. McGowan did get cuffed around in his next start, but who knows? The 2007 Yankees cuffed around lots of teams. Marcum topped out at 112, Litsch at 106. Ohka and Towers (twice) both had 100+ outings, not that anyone cares anymore.

Lee - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#182022) #

I also like "Lesser of Two Evil Empires"

For Boston?! I would go with "Several Orders of Magnitude More Evil Empire"...

Pistol - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 01:09 PM EDT (#182023) #

Alex Obal - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 01:30 PM EDT (#182024) #

Out-of-town scoreboard:

Cincy leads Arizona 3-0 in the middle of the third, and the little fella Johnny Cueto is looking pretty freakin' dominant. He's throwing a laser-guided mid-90s fastball down and away to everyone. Nine up, nine down, five strikeouts. It's only three innings, but if Cueto and Edinson Volquez turn out to be the monsters they were in spring training... in that division... hoo boy. We might have a sleeper team.

vw_fan17 - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#182025) #

But I don't think the basketball world is quite as tied to ancient patterns of thinking as the baseball world. Or the hockey world.

Magpie - hard to tell if you're grouping hockey with basketball or baseball here.. If baseball - there are very few "non-white" guys in hockey, which makes it hard for a non-white person to be labelled as a "competitor". I'm pretty sure Iginla is rated as a competitor..

Interestingly enough, just watched the "Everybody Hates Chris" episode about blacks in hockey last night (I thought it was really good, if you like the show). Mild spoiler alert: stop reading now if you haven't watched it and want to.

One quote was something like (said by Willie O'Ree - first ever black NHL player):
WO: "The three of us must be the only black hockey fans in New York."
Chris: "Actually, I'm not a fan, I'm just watching out for him, so there's only two of you..".

Their dad buys Drew a "98 Gritzky" jersey from Risky because the dad doesn't know the difference (even though he's a huge baseball/basketball fan).

vw_fan17 - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#182026) #

Sabermetric favourite Brain Bannister (7 IP 0R)

With a name like "Brain Bannister", I'm sure he is QUITE the Sabermetric favourite :-)

CaramonLS - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#182027) #

Or the hockey world.

Well, not exactly a lot to choose from. Although Iginla is probably considered one of the top competitors in the NHL. Forgetting Derek Jeter? I think the guy is overrated, but there is no doubt he brings it every single game and plays hard.

Stop trying to grasp for racist straws.

vw_fan17 - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#182028) #

Yeah, it takes a lot of time to get used to the languauge, clean city and polite people.

Well, if you're gonna use THAT kind of "LANGUAUGUE", I could see why it would be confusing to US Folk :-)

In all seriousness: the US is NOT uniformly rude and obnoxious, despite our best stereotypes. I mean, imagine if, for example, the Jays relocated to Hamilton.. Ugh. So much for coming across as polite and clean! (I'm drawing on my experience as a member of the Argos band when playing at an Argos-Tiecats game, not just based on stereotypes). The Bay Area isn't that different from Toronto, IMHO. Except for the constant politics.. :-(

VW

Dan Daoust - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#182030) #

"Dan Daoust, in future, if you do have evidence of a tendency to over-subscribe white players with attributes like "great competitor" I think you should present it before implying that Michael Kay and Paul O'Neill are racist (even if it's only to a slight degree). Race-based things shouldn't be casually tossed out there or implied, IMO."

Easy does it. My lighthearted take on a thoroughly observed phenomenon in sports media is nothing new. For example, see http://deadspin.com/sports/baseball/vote-for-your-favorite-white-guy-209985.php and http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080401.

92-93 - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#182032) #

I see many of you are privy to the YES broadcast...am I the only one who gets extremely annoyed when Doc is referred to as "Holiday"? Geez Michael Kay, it's really not that hard a name to pronounce.

Shane - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#182033) #

Well, i've had the day off to watch all the many get-away games that are on the tele this afternoon. Lots of good ball games going on. Had the opportunity to catch up on some former Blue Jays as well. Orlando Hudson and the D-Backs having a perfect game thrown at 'em. Dave Bush is pitching pretty well. There's Troy Glaus getting his cuts. Troy Tulowitzki's manning shortstop.

Ron - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#182034) #

The latest issue of SI has a nice feature on Tulowitzki and of course the Jays are mentioned in the article. JP said it was his decision to take Romero and obviously the selection doesn't look good right now but he still believes in him. Tulowitzki said the Jays were interested in him but he felt like they wanted pitching more. JP said he decided to go with the pitcher because free agent pitchers weren't exactly knocking on the Jays door and Romero's pitches were impressive. Epstein had a quote were he thought Romero was a sure bet.

At the time, Romero was thought of a low upside/low risk pitcher that would move quickly through the Jays system. The writer even threw in the names of Michael Jordan and Sam Bowie. That's a stretch to compare those 2 to Tulowitzki and Romero, but at this point, Romero has been a massive bust.

Barry Bonnell - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#182035) #

Dustin is going tonight and Scutaro's x-rays were negative.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/baseball

Barry Bonnell - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#182036) #

BTW, how are you guys getting the YES broadcast? I don't mind Jamie Campbell so much but Rod Black makes me want to rip my ears out.

Thomas - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#182037) #

I see many of you are privy to the YES broadcast...am I the only one who gets extremely annoyed when Doc is referred to as "Holiday"? Geez Michael Kay, it's really not that hard a name to pronounce

Yes. I remarked as much to a friend when watching the opener. Once or twice would have been okay, but he does it every single time.

Pistol, I had the same question when hearing about the Stairs story. I guess it's plausible he was in the clubhouse and the game was on the TV or something, but I actually assumed that someone else heard it and passed on the message to Stairs. Either way, glad to see him say something.

Also, it was mentioned on the YES broadcast but I'm not sure about Sportsnet, so if you don't know, Alex Rios' hitting streak against the Yankees in the longest in 56 years. I thought that was pretty impressive.

John Northey - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#182038) #

Syracuse doing OK so far...

Home run by Lind, 2 hits for Diaz, Purcey giving up 1 hit, 1 walk, 4 K's over 4 2/3 so far. Did you know they have gameday for AAA now? Coooool. More ways to avoid work :)

92-93 - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#182040) #

Barry, I live in NY, and I far prefer the YES broadcasts to the Sportsnet/TSN ones, despite Michael Kay not knowing the name of our ace.

John Northey - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#182041) #

Wow, according to Gameday Syracuse is going with a dozen pitchers. A bit excessive in AAA isn't it? Just 3 men on the bench. JJ Cannon, Pedro Lopez, and Hector Luna.

FYI: Purcey is now up to 6 shutout innings with just 2 hits, 2 walks, and 7 strikeouts. Looking good. Diaz and Lind the lights on the offense, 2 hits and a home run respectively. Russ Adams is hitting cleanup. Ouch.

Noah - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#182042) #

interesting to see Russ Adams playing in right field and batting cleanup. I guess they're trying to mold him into a utility everything player. Although its not like his bat is that good that we're dying to get him into the lineup.

Mike D - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#182045) #

His two GIDPs were costly, obviously. But say this for Eckstein: The next time he sees 22 pitches in five plate appearances, doesn't strike out and scores a run, he would have to be pretty unlucky to be again referred to in hindsight as an "abscess" at the plate (per Blair).

He'll get his OBP into a useful range soon enough.

Pistol - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#182047) #

BTW, how are you guys getting the YES broadcast?

I live in the US and it appears that the home team broadcast is the one used on the Extra Innings pacakge. If you watch MLB.tv it seems to be more random (although maybe it's changed; I'm not getting it this year).

It may have changed last year, but now all of the games are shown on Extra Innings (except for national games and probably Sat afternoon games). In the past the Jays would often get bumped if there weren't enough channels. And they never showed the Jays broadcast (which I thought was odd because that's never a problem with Center Ice). They seemed to use the more popular broadcast and now it appears to be the home team. Ideally you could choose which you wanted, but they'd have to double the channels for that.

John Northey - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#182049) #

Checking Baseball Prospectus' views on the Jays is always depressing. Nate Silver really dislikes them this year as he has them falling below Baltimore. Below the (#&@! Orioles! C'mon. You gotta be kidding there.

Both Halladay and McGowan listed as possible Cy Young vote getters. 9 of their writers had the Jays in 4th behind the Rays while 7 had them finishing 3rd ahead of the Rays. All had the Yanks/Red Sox 1/2 and all but the one mentioned earlier had the Orioles last.

For those who are curious their predictions for 2007 were Yanks/Sox/Jays/Rays/Orioles. Silver had that exact order while some others had the Orioles finishing 3rd and one optimist having the Jays in 2nd ahead of the Red Sox.

scottt - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 06:34 PM EDT (#182053) #

It's normal to predict Boston/NYY finishing first and second. That's not because their teams are so much better, but because they have a history of finishing first and second, and that's mostly because if something goes wrong they'll just spend the money and fix it.

Mike D - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#182055) #

At the risk of reverse jinxing an AL East rival, I want to say this on the record on April 3:

I get the rationale behind the trendy Tampa-to-third-with-a-bullet prediction. But the Rays' bullpen has big problems. And it's a big problem for the Rays that their bullpen has big problems.

uglyone - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#182056) #

You guys might want to sit down before you read this....

The Jays have actually received THREE pieces of health-related GOOD news.....all in ONE night tonight.

McGowan is good to go
Stairs is good to go
Scutaro's finger is fine

If I had heard this two days ago, I wouldn't have believed it for a second. But it's April 3rd now. Is it a full moon or something?

scottt - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 06:56 PM EDT (#182058) #

And it's a big problem for the Rays that their bullpen has big problems.

Their starting rotation isn't going to scare anyone either.

Alex Obal - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 07:05 PM EDT (#182059) #

I'm not usually terribly entertained by player movement rumors. But I I think it would be really fun to see the Rays sitting somewhat pretty in late July, say 58-50, two games off the AL East and wild card paces, coming off a three-game sweep at the hands of the Jays where they blew three straight leads in the late innings, pondering whether to deal a Wade Davis or a Jacob McGee or one of their other uberpitchingprospects for some also-ran's closer.

Alex Obal - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#182061) #

Also, in the interest of math and accuracy, that should read 53-45.

And I cringe every time Michael Kay says 'crisp'. I can't be the only one.

Dan Daoust - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 08:04 PM EDT (#182062) #

BTW, how are you guys getting the YES broadcast?

I too live in New York.

Thomas - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 08:10 PM EDT (#182063) #

I live in the US and it appears that the home team broadcast is the one used on the Extra Innings pacakge. If you watch MLB.tv it seems to be more random (although maybe it's changed; I'm not getting it this year).

I'm on MLB.tv and I've got YES for all three broadcasts, so far. I imagine it will change to Sportsnet tomorrow.

Thomas just got called out on strikes and let the ump have it. I'm not sure if I've ever seen him so mad as a Jay. He was run from the game, so we'll have Stewart as DH in a couple of innings, I imagine.

CeeBee - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 08:18 PM EDT (#182064) #

I'm not that good a lip reader but to me it looked like the first words the ump said when Frank got in his face started with F... plus he flipped the ball right behind Franks head almost like he was daring him to even open his mouth... Maybe I'm wrong but to me it looked like he was looking for an excuse to toss him and he found it.

NDG - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 08:19 PM EDT (#182065) #

Apparently big Frank feels that rooks should have to throw him seven strikes before he strikes out. I'm glad that Thomas got tossed. I may be a Jays fan, but that at bat was ridiculous. I would be tossing stuff if McGowan threw that many strikes to A-Rod without the calls. Even Tabler commented {paraphrased} "Big Frank must be upset that the same pitch was thrown twice before in that at-bat without being called strikes". Note that he never mentioned that they were called correctly before.

Alex Obal - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 08:29 PM EDT (#182066) #

Well, Hurt kind of had a point about strike three being noticeably further inside than ball two...

make the call blue!

Jbar - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#182067) #

Nicely done Alex. Is it possible to show pitch tracker to an ump in between innings?

VBF - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#182068) #

"Melky Cabrera is The Man"

"And here comes Mr. Clutch!"

I'm not going to fault him if he says stupid things, or cliche things, or whatever, but I just wish Black would stop this whole Yankees obsession. He is only fit to call games of teams that have no identifiable characteristics to them like the Royals. But he'd probably find something about them too and cling to it the entire broadcast.

It's been bad before, but this is really bad.

jmoney - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#182069) #

Does Gathright still play for the Royals? Rod could fixate on how he can jump over a car.

VBF - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#182070) #

Oh yes, that's right. I also realized that Mark Teahen is part Canadian, Mike Sweeney used to play for the Royals, and Kauffman Stadium is a great ballpark.

Flex - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#182071) #

Much as I love Hill, that was a pretty crummy at bat to close out the game. Man I hate to see a guy take a fastball anywhere around the zone for strike-three, out-three.

brent - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#182072) #

Today's WPA heroes are Eckstein, McGowan and Rios (3). The letdowns were Hill, Overbay and Downs.

Jdog - Thursday, April 03 2008 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#182073) #

In both losses the defense has been a let down. This game saw Zaun let a ball get by him that he could have stopped which may have prevented a run, and then Downs error on the bunt. But if we keep getting pitching like we have we will win a lot of games. Both our losses to date really come down to the other team catching more breaks.

Frank Markotich - Friday, April 04 2008 @ 08:53 AM EDT (#182081) #

Three close games that could have gone either way. The Yankees could just as easily say they should have swept.

McGowan pitched well, but I'll say this (relative to the 6th inning). There is nothing, nothing, that drives me crazier than a pitcher who gets ahead in the count, gets to 0-2 or 1-2 and then starts messing around and gets to a full count and ends up losing the hitter. McGowan has the stuff to go right after them and put them away.

I hope the Blue Jays can take from this series that they can play with anybody. The team has the ability to contend for the post-season with normal luck. To me, this team has previously lacked a sense of urgency, and I question whether John Gibbons is the man to provide it. What they need is a Tony Larussa type - preparation, focus and an intense emphasis on winning the game in front of you.

greenfrog - Friday, April 04 2008 @ 09:10 AM EDT (#182082) #

Frank: I'm with you on Gibbons. I don't have confidence that he can bring the team to the next level. He strikes me as too tentative and too much of a people-pleaser to give the Jays what they need (strong, informed, intuitive, decisive leadership).

I think what you see is what you're going to get, however. At least in 2008. If Gibbons gets fired, it will mean that the Jays have stumbled badly and likely fallen out of contention.

zeppelinkm - Friday, April 04 2008 @ 09:14 AM EDT (#182083) #

Frank, I agree about not finishing off batters. McGowan nibbled a bit too much. He's gotta just attack with his stuff. That's what I told myself one time when I was ultra nervous as he ran the count to 3 - 0 on someone "He's a guy that just lay a fastball in there on a 3 - 0 count and theres absolutely no guarentee the batter will hit it hard". Not a lot of guys can give you that kind of peace of mind.

McGowan definitely didn't have his best stuff last night and he still only allowed 2 runs in 6 innings against the most established offence in MLB. What I saw was McGowan consistantly missing when he was trying to throw higher in the zone. He seemed to be throwing more strikes lower in the zone, then he would try to challenge someone with a high 2 strike fastball and miss high by 18 inches.

Still though, we held the Yankee's to an average of 2.67 runs a game. Encouraging start.

Chuck - Friday, April 04 2008 @ 09:56 AM EDT (#182085) #

There is nothing, nothing, that drives me crazier than a pitcher who gets ahead in the count, gets to 0-2 or 1-2 and then starts messing around and gets to a full count and ends up losing the hitter. McGowan has the stuff to go right after them and put them away.

I only started watching in the 6th and McGowan was looking a whole lot more like an early vintage Kelvim Escobar than the man who had just shut out the Yankees for five innings. He had Damon 0-2 before Damon hit a 3-2 meatball for a double. He had Jeter 0-2 before a 2-2 HBP. He then nibbled incessantly against Abreu, a player well noted for rarely chasing pitches out of the strike zone. He then followed up striking out the best hitter in the lineup, Rodriguez, on a nasty running fastball that was almost entirely unhittable.

Evidently it's easier to tell young pitchers to just trust their stuff than for them to actually believe it. And no doubt facing the Yankees, especially in Yankee Stadium, just addrf to the pressure, but hopefully McGowan can get to that place where he knows he has the tools to challenge anybody... and to put hitters away on 0-2 and 1-2 counts. His physical skills scream "ace". Now it's time to hone the mental skills.

Four Seamer - Friday, April 04 2008 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#182087) #

Now it's time to hone the mental skills.

And the razor. Those sideburns have got to go.

Apart from the facial hair, and the nibbling in the sixth, I liked what I saw from McGowan. I'm not so sure though whether he was nibbling so much as starting to lose his command a little bit - he hadn't thrown that many pitches, but it is early in the season, and both he and Hughes appeared to be starting to flag somewhat. Anyway, three games in and the pitching appears as advertised. Unfortunately, so does the offense.

uglyone - Friday, April 04 2008 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#182101) #

The Yankees could just as easily say they should have swept.

Not sure how "easy" it is to say you should have swept a series that you were outscored in.

CatchdeTaste - Friday, April 04 2008 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#182115) #

Fitting day to post for the first time...Alomar easily the greatest Jay of all time....homerun against Eck was my favourite Jay moment.....on to now presser is on...did I just hear JP take credit for drafting Rios???

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