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It's long past time for my first Data Table of 2008, no?

It won't be long before Season previews begin to appear at a Batter's Box near you. But before that happens, we have to research and write the darn things. And at this point, we're still divvying up the assignments. But this much is known. Much to my surprise, I will be writing about the Atlanta Braves.

I had naturally expected Liam, my son and heir (sorry, no vast tracts of land...if you like, keep the bass and sell the Strat) to insist on doing the Braves himself. There would be two reasons for this: 1) Liam actually is a Braves fan; 2) Liam has this mysterious power to propel some nondescript loser of a team into the World Series by the mere act of writing a Box Season Preview. It's pretty awesome. He did it with Detroit two years ago. He did it with Colorado last year.

As you can surely imagine, I strongly suggested that he try on the 2008 Blue Jays. "Screw the Round Table!", I said. "You can do this!" But, alas - as you shall see in due course, he's fixed his eye on an even Bigger Challenge.

So I took up the torch with my aging and infirm hand, and dutifully started doing some Braves research. And in the natural course of events, I started thinking about Brian McCann. Just one year ago, I was noting how he compared to a much more celebrated young catcher, Joe Mauer of the Twins. And why not? Here's how Mauer and McCann performed in 2006

Player    Ag   G  AB   R  H  2B 3B HR RBI BB SO  BAV  OBP  SLG SB CS GDP HBP SH SF IBB  OPS+
Mauer 23 140 521 86 181 36 4 13 84 79 54 .347 .429 .507 8 3 24 1 0 7 21 144
McCann 22 130 442 61 147 34 0 24 93 41 54 .333 .388 .572 2 0 12 3 0 6 8 146

Mauer finished sixth in the MVP voting (and there were many people, myself included, who thought he would have been a most worthy winner - and that he had certainly been a more valuable player than the fellow on his own team who actually won the award.) McCann, meanwhile, received no MVP votes at all. Zero. Bugger-all. Not a sausage. It's true that Mauer has an excellent defensive reputation and McCann does not - but you'd still think a 22 year old catcher who hits .333 with 24 HR and 93 RBI might get a little bit of respect. How bad could his defense be?

McCann's offense fell off drastically in 2007. While he was able to stay in the lineup, he spent almost the entire year battling injuries to his thumb and his ankles. However, the Braves were pleased with his defense. McCann isn't all that great at throwing out base runners (last year, he threw out just 19 of the 89 opponents who tried to steal a base.) His handling of the pitching staff received much better reviews. Mark Bowman at mlb.com noted that:

McCann's knowledge of pitchers allowed Braves pitchers to produce a 3.90 ERA when he was behind the plate. That figure ranked first among all NL catchers.

That would certainly be interesting if it was true, but unfortunately it's not. San Diego pitchers had a 3.44 ERA when Josh Bard was catching. Bard caught more than 100 games, more than 900 innings. I think the guy qualifies. The Braves staff also had the third best ERA (4.11) in the National League last year. It sort of figures that the guy who caught 78% of the innings (McCann was second in the majors in innings behind the plate) for the team with the fourth best ERA in the majors might finish fairly high on any list of Catcher ERAs.

And anyway. Don't you rather expect a team's staff to have a better ERA when the number one catcher is on the job? Don't you think it might be one of the reasons he's the number one guy in the first place? It seems only fair to assume that there's much more familiarity and understanding between a team's number one catcher and the pitchers. On the whole, I'd find it a little disturbing if the team's ERA didn't go up when the backup came in.

Might there be another way we could look at this?

Well, yeah. Many, many ways, I'm sure. But what I thought I'd do is look at the difference between the team's ERA when one catcher is in the game as opposed to the other catchers on his own team, and compare them on that basis. Rather than observe what happens when Josh Bard catches Jake Peavy in Petco Park as opposed to when Yorvit Torrealba catches Josh Towers at Coors Field. (Yeah, I want to see that too!)

Where to get Catcher ERA data... most of what's needed can be found over at the Hardball Times. What they actually have are the team's ERAs for each catcher, along with how many innings caught by said catcher. But it's enough - from there, we can figure out the earned runs. And then, from these humble beginnings, we can compare each catcher with the other catchers on his own team. And hope that levels the playing field a little. We'll get a Data Table to look at, and maybe there will be something strange and wonderful to be found....

There were 31 catchers who caught more then 500 innings for their team in 2007 (Oakland and Arizona had two; the Cubs had none). Russel Martin of the Dodgers caught more innings than any other catcher in baseball last year, and Dodgers pitchers posted a 3.95 ERA when he was behind the plate. When someone else was catching, the Dodger ERA was 5.83, and they're probably glad to see the last of Mike Lieberthal. Anyway, that's a difference of -1.88 in staff ERA with Martin catching. Which also leads the majors. Here's the list:.

                                     Catcher                               Catcher        ERA +/-
Last Tm Lg Innings ERA Innings ERA Impact
Martin LAN NL 1254.0 3.95 Other Catchers 196.0 5.83 -1.88
Kendall OAK AL 714.0 3.40 Other Catchers 734.0 5.18 -1.78
Pierzynski CHA AL 1058.0 4.41 Other Catchers 383.0 5.76 -1.35
Paulino PIT NL 1088.0 4.61 Other Catchers 360.0 5.95 -1.34
Ausmus HOU NL 907.0 4.29 Other Catchers 558.0 5.37 -1.08
Snyder ARI NL 891.0 3.73 Other Catchers 550.0 4.80 -1.07
Zaun TOR AL 838.0 3.55 Other Catchers 610.0 4.62 -1.07
McCann ATL NL 1139.0 3.89 Other Catchers 317.0 4.91 -1.02
Ross CIN NL 837.0 4.57 Other Catchers 613.0 5.48 -0.91
Mauer MIN AL 778.0 3.78 Other Catchers 659.0 4.64 -0.86
Molina STL NL 861.0 4.33 Other Catchers 574.0 5.19 -0.86
Bard SD NL 927.0 3.44 Other Catchers 558.0 4.20 -0.76
Rodriguez DET AL 1053.0 4.40 Other Catchers 395.0 5.06 -0.66
Torrealba COL NL 935.0 4.12 Other Catchers 537.0 4.66 -0.54
Ruiz PHI NL 913.0 4.59 Other Catchers 546.0 5.06 -0.47
Lo Duca NYN NL 974.0 4.13 Other Catchers 479.0 4.55 -0.42
Molina SF NL 1104.0 4.11 Other Catchers 349.0 4.46 -0.35
Varitek BOS AL 1064.0 3.80 Other Catchers 375.0 4.06 -0.26
Buck KC AL 924.0 4.43 Other Catchers 513.0 4.63 -0.20
Martinez CLE AL 1043.0 4.01 Other Catchers 420.0 4.16 -0.15
Navarro TB AL 956.0 5.50 Other Catchers 474.0 5.61 -0.11
Estrada MIL NL 961.0 4.44 Other Catchers 483.0 4.45 -0.01
Posada NYA AL 1111.0 4.50 Other Catchers 339.0 4.48 0.02
Hernandez BAL AL 855.0 5.20 Other Catchers 584.0 5.17 0.03
Laird TEX AL 987.0 4.78 Other Catchers 443.0 4.72 0.06
Napoli LAA AL 599.0 4.28 Other Catchers 836.0 4.19 0.09
Olivo FLA NL 990.0 5.04 Other Catchers 454.0 4.77 0.27
Schneider WAS NL 1051.0 4.79 Other Catchers 395.0 4.01 0.78
Montero ARI NL 511.0 4.81 Other Catchers 930.0 3.77 1.04
Johjima SEA AL 1107.0 5.07 Other Catchers 328.0 3.74 1.33
Suzuki OAK AL 539.0 5.31 Other Catchers 909.0 3.70 1.61


A few quick and shallow observations:

The magic of Jason Kendall didn't prove to be portable. Cubs pitchers had a 4.29 ERA over 432 innings pitching to Kendall, a 3.94 ERA in more than 1000 innings with the other guys.

Gregg Zaun, of course, had the great good fortune to be on the Disabled List during the never-to-be-forgotten Zambrano Era.

And Brian McCann, the point of this whole exercise, does come out looking rather well. The Braves ERA was a full run better with him behind the plate.
Catcher ERAs | 20 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Alex Obal - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 07:47 AM EST (#180389) #
Gregg Zaun, of course, had the great good fortune to be on the Disabled List during the never-to-be-forgotten Zambrano Era.

That is a very good point. Zaun was on the DL for 45 games. Six were started by Tomo Ohka, two by Josh Towers, one by Gustavo Chacin, four by early Jesse Litsch, and seven by early Dustin McGowan. Only six by Doc. And of course there were the two epic performances by Zambrano. The Jays' rotation never looked nearly that bleak at any point after Victoria Day.

But still. A 3.55 Catcher ERA as a full-time player on an AL East team that plays in a hitters' park? I can live with that from a starter.
Chuck - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 08:10 AM EST (#180390) #

Another factor to be included in the calculus is the use of personal catchers. Their existence will contradict the tacit assumption that the starting and backup catchers handle the same pitchers. And who knows, perhaps there is a home/road usage disparity that factors into the mix as well. And a further who knows, perhaps there is a starter/reliever disparity as well. A catcher with a good defensive rep who serves as a defensive replacement will come into a disproportionate amount of games where the team's strongest relievers are being used.

While catcher ERA can be informative, there are many factors to adjust for before making definitive claims.

Magpie - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 08:22 AM EST (#180391) #
the use of personal catchers.

I'm not sure how much of that still goes on, at least now that Greg Maddux and Javy Lopez are no longer team mates. Can anyone think of any current examples?

But I do think the Sample Sizes over the course a single season are generally too small to indicate a dependable ability. It's just a record of what happened. The fact that the Jays had an ERA of 5.91 with Sal Fasano catching doesn't really tell us much about Fasano's skill set.
Chuck - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 09:11 AM EST (#180393) #

Wakefield, of course, has Mirabelli. I believe somebody on the Orioles actually had Paul Bako (though I am not possessed of the masochism require to wade through Oriole game logs to prove this).

And while it's not advertised as loudly as it was when Maddux's personal catcher was "anyone not named Javy", you sometimes hear of managers aligning their backup catcher with a particular pitcher or two. Whether that's just idle talk, however, only a whackload of tedious research could prove.

Still, the assumption that the starting catcher and backup catcher each handle a similar distribution of the team's pitchers would need to be addressed, even if that disparity came by chance alone.

ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 12:16 PM EST (#180398) #
Castro and Martinez is the only other combo that I can think of for personal catchers - although from my understanding, it's not an exclusive situation and I don't know even know if it's anything beyond just circumstantial (or even that level, as I'm going off of memory of what I've seen / heard in broadcasts and not checking box scores).

I'll add to Chuck's point about needing refinements to a catcher's ERA.  It is not only the distribution of pitchers are caught that you need to consider, but also the distribution of opposing teams.  Better catchers will likely face a disproportionate amount of better offenses.

A specific example is that if you're a contending team, you're going to make sure that your best catcher is in as frequently as possible against the teams you're competing with for a playoff spot (i.e. Yankees will probably not rest Posada when playing the Red Sox).  As better offenses are correlated with better records, it's likely that the better overall catcher will overall face tougher offenses (at least on contending teams).
John Northey - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 12:53 PM EST (#180400) #
Catchers ERA has been torn apart in many quarters, as there are plenty who feel the only defensive skill a ML catcher brings is with his arm.

I've fought the good fight against that one elsewhere in the defense of Mike Piazza. His teams consistently finished in the top handful of teams for ERA when he was the regular catcher, while failing to do so as soon as he left. For example, in LA his last full season they came in 2nd for ERA, then he split a season between there and NY, then the Dodgers came in 7th for ERA. The Mets in 97 were 6th for ERA, 5th in '99, 3rd in '00. 2005 was Piazza's last NYM season with 100+ as catcher and they came in 3rd for ERA, the following year with Piazza in SD the Mets came in 3rd again while SD went from 7th to 1st (where they still were post-Piazza). If Piazza is such a terrible catcher then why didn't his teams improve in ERA without him or drop with him? Could be coincindence but I think it is worth noting.

Meanwhile the god of catching, I-Rod, was catching teams that were in the bottom half of the league for ERA for virtually his whole career until recently, although things went back to 'normal' this year with Detroit's ERA ranking 9th in the AL after the oddity of coming in first last year (8th in '05, 13th in '04 which was his first year in Detroit). I-Rod's one year in Florida they came in 7th out of 16 (dropped to 8th the following year, but 6th in runs allowed per game, they did stink pre-I-Rod in 13th place). After I-Rod left Texas they came in last for ERA (from 3rd from last in I-Rods final season which was preceeded by 2 last place finishes, they reached the heights of 6th place just twice with I-Rod over his 12 seasons there) then jumped to 5th the 2nd year post-IRod. To me there is something there if it is consistent across many teams (including two with pitchers parks now) thus I give I-Rod very little credit for defense no matter how good his arm is.

Catchers defense I think is an area that a team could really make hay with if they can figure out how to measure game calling ability. From what I can tell I-Rod was extremely poor (I remember interviews with him in the 90's where he admitted to not going to catcher/pitcher meetings) while Piazza was extremely good (he was known to do extra meetings and the like). If the Jays signed Piazza as the backup catcher I would not have complained one bit as, outside of his arm, I've yet to see anything proving he has issues behind the plate. Scouts and the like claim Piazza sucks but I wonder how much is the reverse of the 'cant hit so must be good defensively' situation.
John Northey - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 01:05 PM EST (#180402) #
Fasano started 14 games last season in the majors. The guys he caught were...

Chacin, AJ (7 runs), Zambrano, Ohka, Ohka, Halladay (7 runs), McGowan, McGowan, Ohka, Litsch (2/3rds of an inning then to the minors), Halladay (0 runs), McGowan, Halladay (8 runs), Halladay (3 runs).

So he caught Halladay 4 times, Ohka 3 times, McGowan twice, and Litsch & Chacin once apiece. 18 runs over those 4 Halladay starts given up by Halladay is fairly poor (4 1/2 per start vs 3 1/4 overall). Maybe Fasano is a good catcher but the early evidence sure doesn't show it.

I put the run totals in for AJ and Halladay as a note about how he did with the vets. Litsch as it could've been his last ML start the way that game looked.
John Northey - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 01:07 PM EST (#180403) #
Sheesh, trouble counting what is in front of me today...

Fasano caught...
Halladay 4 times
Ohka & McGowan 3 times each
Litsch, Chacin, Zambrano, and AJ once each
TamRa - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 02:41 PM EST (#180408) #
That is a very good point. Zaun was on the DL for 45 games. Six were started by Tomo Ohka, two by Josh Towers, one by Gustavo Chacin, four by early Jesse Litsch, and seven by early Dustin McGowan. Only six by Doc. And of course there were the two epic performances by Zambrano. The Jays' rotation never looked nearly that bleak at any point after Victoria Day.

But still. A 3.55 Catcher ERA as a full-time player on an AL East team that plays in a hitters' park? I can live with that from a starter.

Earlier in the winter, I went through the boxes and figured Zaun's ERA when catching the front four and their results when pitching to all others. I don't remember off hand what the exact figures are, but there is still a spread of about 1.1 runs, even with all the losers shaved out. It was something like .384/4.96


Magpie - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 02:44 PM EST (#180409) #
the assumption that the starting catcher and backup catcher each handle a similar distribution of the team's pitchers would need to be addressed, even if that disparity came by chance alone.

For sure.

It is not only the distribution of pitchers are caught that you need to consider, but also the distribution of opposing teams.  Better catchers will likely face a disproportionate amount of better offenses.

Yeah, but... gulp.

What you end up doing, in the first instance, is looking at each pitcher on the staff''s performance with each of the team's catchers.  I actually did this kind of exercise, back towards the tail end of Season From Hell. I ended up with this:

Roy Halladay
w/ Cash: 4-4, 4.02, 69.1 IP
w/ zaun: 3-3, 4.81, 48.2 IP

Miguel Batista
w/ Cash: 1-5, 6.59, 55 IP
w/ zaun: 8-7, 4.39, 125 IP
w/ Myers: 0-0, 2.57, 7 IP
w/ Quiroz: 0-1, 24.00, 3 IP

Ted lilly
w/ Cash: 1-5, 5.79, 51.1 IP
w/ zaun: 9-4, 3.25, 122 IP
w/ Myers: 1-1, 2.84, 12.2 IP

Josh Towers
w/ Cash: 1-1, 3.94, 16 IP
w/ zaun: 8-5, 5.06, 80 IP
w/ Myers: 0-0, 6.75, 4 IP

Dave Bush
w/ Cash: 1-0, 1.69, 21.1 IP
w/ zaun: 2-4, 4.84, 57.2 IP
w/ Quiroz: 1-0, 1.50, 6 IP

Justin Miller
w/ Cash: 1-1, 5.13, 26.1 IP
w/ zaun: 2-1, 4.95, 43.2 IP
w/ Quiroz: 0-1, 45.00, 1 IP
w/ Estalella: 0-1, 5.40, 5 IP

You see the problem we start to have. The samples get really, really small. And that's without even taking the quality of the opposition into account. And of course the smaller the sample, the bigger an impact either of these variables would have.

I'm proudly and unapologetically fond of the Small Sample Size - I believe baseball is all about the small sample size. Sure - after all, after several thousand games, what could be a smaller sample than one at bat in the seventh game of a World Series? That's sometimes how the Champion of the World gets settled. The Problem with the Small Sample, as everyone knows, is its uselessness in forecasting the next small sample (or a large quantity of small samples) and hence its utter uselessness in describing a set of abilities. Which is what we'd like to do.

I doubt that we can do that. I'm interested in noting what happened, but I agree entirely that we would need to be very cautious and very skeptical about trying to draw any meaningful conclusions from it regarding a player's abilities in this area.

Unless it persists year after year after year.
ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 05:16 PM EST (#180412) #
Magpie - you definitely have more patience for researching baseball stats than I do.  Those types of breakdowns would really help solve the question I'm talking about.

You see the problem we start to have. The samples get really, really small. And that's without even taking the quality of the opposition into account. And of course
the smaller the sample, the bigger an impact either of these variables would have.

I think I see the issue a bit differently.  I'm thinking of doing catcher ERA somewhat similar to (what I believe) is the OPS+ or ERA+ calculation.

At a rudimentary level and hypothetical level, let's say Roy Halladay pitches a complete 1-run game against Baltimore and AJ Burnett gives up 6 runs in a complete game against the Red Sox, both of which are caught by Zaun.

Let's say the Doc gives up 50% fewer runs than average and Baltimore scores about 10% fewer runs than average - we'd thus expect the Doc to give up about 45% of the league average in runs in his start against baltimore (.50 * .90), or about 2 runs (assuming a 4.5 run average, I don't know what the number is off the top of my head, but this is just for illustrative purposes).  Hallada's 1-run start puts Zaun 1 run above average over 9 innings.  Conversely let's say AJ is 20% better than average and the Red Sox score 10% more runs than average.  We'd expect that he'd give up 3.95 runs, so in this case, Zaun is about 2 runs worse than average over the 9 innings - over his 18 innings, Zaun is 1 run worse than average.  Our sample set is 18 innings (or 2 starts, however you want to look at it) and keeps increasing in size as we add pitchers, innings, and opponents, as opposed to decreasing.

We don't end up slicing up the data, we just end up normalizing it.

I know there are lots of problems with that analysis (for starters, it punishes catchers who catch good pitchers), but it's a starting point for building an analysis of the sort that I was talking about.

dp - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 06:21 PM EST (#180413) #
Great piece, thanks.  John, I agree entirely about Piazza- throwing out runners matters in close games, but really, if you have a catcher who can hit it should balance that out.  I think the reason why throwing runners out gets fetishized is because we have a stat for it, even if that stat is more of a reflection of the pitcher's attempt/ability to hold runners on.   The Mets quite foolishly  dealt for a catch-and-throw guy who can't hit, and it's going to come close to costing them the division this year.  The lesson of Piazza should have been that as long as the guy is a good "field general" out there, don't worry about his arm. Piazza had shockingly good mobility, even in his last years as a Met- he got to pop-ups nicely, and he was tough in blocking the plate. 

LoDuca, it should be noted, was on the DL during a good portion of the Met implosion last year.  Maybe they imploded b/c he wasn't there calling the pitches, but they didn't magically regain anything when he came back (unfortunately).

While we're on the subject, is anyone else amazed by the inability of the Jays' farm system to churn out a major league catcher?  It wasn't that long ago Werth,Phelps, Lawrence, Cash and Quiroz all started off as passable behind the plate.  Thigpen looks like he might not cut it either, though I'm hoping he takes a nice step this year. 

ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 06:35 PM EST (#180414) #
While we're on the subject, is anyone else amazed by the inability of the Jays' farm system to churn out a major league catcher?  It wasn't that long ago Werth,Phelps, Lawrence, Cash and Quiroz all started off as passable behind the plate.  Thigpen looks like he might not cut it either, though I'm hoping he takes a nice step this year.

I think part of that comes from too quickly moving guys away from behind the plate.  If my memory is correct, Werth and Phelps were moved because the organization though Cash and Quiroz would be full-time catchers and thus Werth and Phelps would have more value to the team elsewhere.  With Thigpen, the same thing seems to be happening - Diaz is making the team think of moving him elsewhere.

I think Werth and Phelps turned into ok hitters and if they had stayed behind the plate, they'd probably be considered pretty solid major leaguers right now, so I think it's more of a decision of the organization to not develop catcher's than it is an inability to develop catchers (although the two are quite likely tied together)
dp - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 06:50 PM EST (#180415) #
Yeah, I wasn't claiming that there's some organizational problem, just that it seems strange that we've had so many "catchers of the future."  The Jays envisioned a Delgado-like path from Phelps and I think made the right call.  Looking at Werth now, it's amazing he ever caught.  Thigpen doesn't seem to have the bat to play anywhere else...

Oh, and I see the defensive specialist the Mets traded a future all-star OF for is at the bottom of MagPie's list.  Genius!

92-93 - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 10:58 PM EST (#180416) #
I was in "Impressionism" today daydreaming about the Jays winning the Series and all of a sudden the professor announces "and here's what the Magpie thinks"...pathetic that that is what it took to get my attention!
Pistol - Thursday, February 28 2008 @ 11:17 PM EST (#180417) #
Werth and Phelps were moved because the organization though Cash and Quiroz would be full-time catchers and thus Werth and Phelps would have more value to the team elsewhere.  With Thigpen, the same thing seems to be happening - Diaz is making the team think of moving him elsewhere.

I think it's more simply that they couldn't catch.  Werth and Phelps were both pretty big guys for catchers.
greenfrog - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 09:45 AM EST (#180421) #
While we're on the subject, is anyone else amazed by the inability of the Jays' farm system to churn out a major league catcher?

It's been a while since we produced an above-average 3B, 1B,  and SS as well. And of all the shortstops we have attempted to develop in the last decade or so, isn't Michael Young the only really notable player? Felipe Lopez had a very good season in 2005 for Cincinnati, but that's about it.
hugo - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 12:13 PM EST (#180522) #
It's worth mentioning that Catcher ERA, though it is not used much in the states, is one of the primary tools used in Japan to evaluate catchers.  Obviously, that proves nothing, and many, including Bill James, contend that it has no worth as a stat,  but it's worth thinking about, at least for Edo-philes such as myself. 
Chuck - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 04:36 PM EST (#180544) #
many, including Bill James, contend that it has no worth as a stat

Has Bill James actually said that? I have no memory of such. I do know that the first time I ever saw catcher's ERA was in a Bill James Abstract.
hugo - Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 12:19 PM EST (#180611) #
I didn't mean to overstate my case.  Bill James didn't dismiss Catcher ERA outright or anything, nor did he ever say that catchers did not exert any influence over pitching performance.   However, he looked at Catcher ERA and determined, upon analysis, that it wasn't a useful stat as variation from year was too great for the stat to have any predictive value or for it to be a reliable indicator of whatever ability a catcher might have to influence pitcher performance.  I don't have a link to a primary source, but <a href="http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1489"> this Baseball Prospectus article </a> discusses James' work and conclusions. 
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