Atlanta's recent announcement that they are moving their AAA team out of Richmond VA to a suburb of Atlanta certainly sets up another game of "AAA musical chairs." The last one got the Orioles and Yankees exactly what they wanted, but left other teams disappointed.

If the Nats have any sense, they'll jump all over the opening in Richmond, which opens up Colombus, which ...

Would Ottawa support a Blue Jays AAA team? I have to doubt it, considering how ridiculously horrible their attendance has been.

If Ottawa were to get Toronto's AAA franchise it woudl be successful. It i strue that people stopped goign to Lynx games, but that was after they lost the Expo connection. (Well, a little before, but after the Expo lost their connection to the rest of the country due to ridiculous TV deals.)

 

I would get season tickets, I think.

Well, what about a AAA team moving to Montreal? Is Jerry Park able to be used for baseball anymore? What about the field the CFL uses? Although using the Big Owe would be tempting as then the Jays AAA players could use fieldturf and get used to it pre-going to Toronto plus get to play in what was once a major league park.

Montreal used to be a really good AAA city and I figure could be again. Given the fans there were going to AAA baseball for all intents during the Expos last decade I figure they'll be used to it and 500k to 1 million in attendance would be more than enough support. Mix in some promotion and hype and I bet it would work. After all, easier to cheer a team that is the farm for one club than cheering a team that is the farm for 29 clubs.

Montreal is a brilliant idea if a reasonable rent for a stadium could be worked out. Has there been any discussion in the press about such a move?

Would Montreal folks resent becoming a minor league team for Toronto?

There is no chance at all of the Jays having their AAA affiliate in Ottawa in the foreseeable future.  The Lynx have moved to Allentown, so another International League team would would need to leave its current market and relocate to Ottawa.  I can't think of one that would find it appealing to do so.

I don't think that's the way it works. Major League teams can put their affiliates anywhere they want. Note the Phillies move from Ottawa to Allentown and the Braves' announced move from Richmond to an Atlanta suburb.

If/when the Mets supplant the Jays in Syracuse, the Jays can put their team in Ottawa or Montreal or in my backyard if they want to. Some existing place will be left high and dry (just like Ottawa and Richmond), and my guess is it would be New Orleans.

Major league teams can't put their affiliates "anywhere they want", except possibly if they own the team themselves. I believe the Braves own the Richmond IL franchise, but the Jays don't own the Syracuse team.

In non-ownership cases, it's a matter of negotiation with the minor league teams who gets affiliated with who.

I don't think that's the way it works. Major League teams can put their affiliates anywhere they want. Note the Phillies move from Ottawa to Allentown and the Braves' announced move from Richmond to an Atlanta suburb.

That's only applicable when a major league team owns an affiliate.  The vast majority of minor league teams are independently owned and operated, and the Blue Jays do not currently own their AAA affiliate.  The only way the Blue Jays could do what you're suggesting is if they bought a current AAA team and relocated it, but that is very unlikely to happen for a variety of reasons.  If the Syracuse Chiefs elect not to renew their PDC with Toronto (the Chiefs are the ones making the decision here, not the city of Syracuse), the Jays will go looking for another AAA team to affiliate with and that team will remain in its current city unless that team's ownership believes it is necessary/profitable to move elsewhere.

I believe the only minor league affiliates the Jays own are the Dunedin Blue Jays and the Gulf Coast Blue Jays.  The Chiefs, Fisher Cats, Lugnuts and Doubledays are all owned by other individuals/companies, and as a result the Blue Jays have little or no control on where they may relocate to during the life of the PDC.

Parc Jerry is a tennis court now. Olympic Stadium sold its FieldTurf to BC Place, and I don't think it would be feasible to heat/air condition/light that place for 60 odd times a year with crowds quite possibly under 3,000. Not to mention, it would probably be received by fans as "Remember the Expos? Well here's the minor league team of Toronto. Enjoy!"

Buffalo sounds pretty good to me, though I'd fall in love with  London team. Maybe one day.

That's only applicable when a major league team owns an affiliate.

What explains the Phillies' AAA team moving to Allentown? Did they buy the Ottawa franchise?

What explains the Phillies' AAA team moving to Allentown? Did they buy the Ottawa franchise?

The team was purchased by a group from Allentown in 2006.  I'm assuming they had some sort of relationship with the Phillies beforehand since the Phillies affiliated with the Lynx soon afterward.

VBF: good point about Montreal. Guess I was just figuring it was the best Canadian location for baseball.

London though? Could work. It has a stadium that isn't too old iirc (for the AA team they used to have) and if it is the Jays there then odds are fans would be more likely to go. Easy access for the Jays going back and forth too with about a 2 hour drive and no border.

Buffalo would be great but Cleveland and Buffalo have been tight for a long time and it is hard to see them splitting up. I guess the Jays could do a one year deal with NO hoping that Buffalo does open up the next season.

Some notes on London:

Labatt Park is a well-maintained 5000+ seat facility with conventional dimensions (330 down the lines, 400 to dead centre) right downtown.  It's a very pleasant place to watch a ballgame and has an old-timey feel.  Just don't park behind the grandstand.  There was was always a loud collective groan when a player hit a high foul straight back and up over the roof onto the hood of some poor schmuck's car back in the London Tiger days.  

I'm willing to bet that the city would bend over backwards to get a AAA Jays affliate in the neighbourhood to provide local bars/restaurants, who have been raking in the dough from the OHL's London Knights at the adjacent JLC, with a steady year rounds base of sports fans.  When fans bailed on the Tigers downtown wasn't the sort of place you'd want to linger if you were with kid, much has changed since.  And London is almost twice the size of Buffalo and probably no longer of a drive to TO with customs factored in. 

What explains the Phillies' AAA team moving to Allentown? Did they buy the Ottawa franchise?

The team was purchased by a group from Allentown in 2006.  I'm assuming they had some sort of relationship with the Phillies beforehand since the Phillies affiliated with the Lynx soon afterward.

IIRC, the owners of the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs also own a couple of the Phillies other minor league affiliates, Reading and Lakewood.

Buffalo would be great but Cleveland and Buffalo have been tight for a long time and it is hard to see them splitting up. I guess the Jays could do a one year deal with NO hoping that Buffalo does open up the next season.

I don't think London would be an option because I don't think Labatt Park would meed AAA standards, either from a size or amenities standpoint.  Buffalo would indeed be great, and the possibility does exist that the Bisons could be up for grabs after the 2008 season.  Columbus is building a new park set to open in 2009 and they're going to lobby for an affiliation with the Indians.  Both Buffalo and Columbus are close to Cleveland, but the Ohio factor may swing a decision in favour of Columbus.

If the Mets do end up in Syracuse and Cleveland in Columbus, assuming no other AAA affiliations change, that would leave Washington and Toronto fighting over Buffalo and New Orleans.  Even though the Mets are saying good things about their current affiliation in New Orleans, it seems no one wants to be in the Big Easy as their last couple of deals have lasted the minimum two years.  Since Buffalo has had great success with the Cleveland affiliation, I'm sure they'll be fighting to retain it, and if they can't, their choice may depend on who can provide them with the best team, which doesn't bode well for the Jays, considering Syracuse's lack of success over the years.

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly would stop the Jays from just starting a new team and placing it where they want?

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly would stop the Jays from just starting a new team and placing it where they want?

The biggest hurdle would be the fact that the team would need a league to play in.  Affiliated minor leagues only expand when major league baseball expands (at least in recent decades -- it was likely different at various times in history), so it's doubtful either the IL or PCL would be willing (or able) to give the Jays an expansion team when there would be an existing AAA team without an affiliation.

Thanks for enlightening me. I'm surprised that the established minor league teams are so well protected.

If the Mets do end up in Syracuse and Cleveland in Columbus, assuming no other AAA affiliations change, that would leave Washington and Toronto fighting over Buffalo and New Orleans.

So if the Nats can purchase the New Orleans franchise and move it to Richmond, everyone gets something good. Seems doable since the Nats have big bucks and Richmond appeared willing to build a new stadium for the Braves.

Clayton McCullough was named manager of the Lugnuts to replace Gary Cathcart who moves up to New Hampshire.  The list of the development staff in the link is interesting, with some old friends resurfacing. 

McCullough is young enough to be my son. Yikes.

I would love to see the Jays AAA team in Calgary.  Over a million people here now, and more than a few Jays fans have relocated out here.

Calgary could be a huge marketing opportunity for Rogers.  However, there are some serious obstacles as well.  Calgary has a short summer - especially when it comes to evening temperatures.  We've had a hard time drawing fans to baseball games, and I think the weather is a big part of it.  As far as reputation for supporting minor ball and weather considerations, Winnipeg would be a better choice for a Jays affiliate.

Calgary does represent a good market to spread the Jays brand though.  Calgary has a very successful all sports radio station that does an excellent job of promoting local sports.  A Jays affiliate would benefit from this, I believe.  Sportsnet West or Shaw Cable could even broadcast a few AAA games.  Calgary is reluctant to buy anything from Toronto.  However, if they could put the Calgary stamp on the Jays by locating a AAA franchise here, it might help the Jays' cause out west.

I'm not sure the PCL would be too enthusiastic about trying Calgary again for a AAA franchise.

You could pencil me in for AAA Jays seasons tickets if they decided to relocate to Calgary - but they need to fix up that junk hole of a stadium they have now in order to bring it up to a realistic standard.

As a London native, I can say that the Knights are the top sports billing in this town, by a mile and a half.  It's not even close.  There might be room for a summer guest, but they will never supplant the Knights.  That would be weird optics (if a Junior "A" hockey team consistently outdrew a AAA MLB team, but whatever).

That said, I don't know what acceptable AAA attendance marks are, but I would guess the team would do well.  There are lots of baseball fans in the London and surrounding area, and getting a chance to watch future Jays would never hurt.

Could I suggest Medicine Hat as a location for the AAA team? Beautiful Athletic Park, built on the banks of the South Saskatchewan River. Excellent training facility next door. Drawing population of over 100 000. AND a Blue Jay heritage to boot!

So if the Nats can purchase the New Orleans franchise and move it to Richmond, everyone gets something good. Seems doable since the Nats have big bucks and Richmond appeared willing to build a new stadium for the Braves.

In theory, yes.  In practice, no.  New Orleans is in the PCL, and there's no way the league would allow one of it's teams to move to a city on the East Coast.  A road trip to NO is already long enough for the other teams in the league.   I guess they could try to negotiate to join the IL, but then another PCL team would have to move with them.  Geographically, it would make sense for New Orleans and Nashville to be in the IL rather than the PCL, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

As far as a new stadium, I don't know about that.  They may be more willing now that it's too late, but over the last couple of years, Richmond was really dragging its heels over a new stadium for the R-Braves, and that could have been one of reasons Atlanta chose to pull out.

Calgary could be a huge marketing opportunity for Rogers. 

I agree it would be a huge marketing opportunity but at the same time, If anyone in Alberta should get an affiliated pro team back first, it's Edmonton.    Telus Field is a much better stadium than Foothills Stadium and the Trappers were averaging over 5,000 fans a game until their last year in 2004 when they still drew 4,200 before the Eskimos sold them to Nolan Ryan so they could move to Round Rock.  The Cracker-Cats, despite a crappy 2007 on the field, still outdrew the Vipers by 200 fans a game even Calgary won their first half division title and advanced to the league final. 

Calgary is the nicer city, has the better hockey team/arena, the better football team/stadium and the better baseball team BUT not when it comes to baseball fans/stadium.  

Calgary has a very successful all sports radio station that does an excellent job of promoting local sports.

I  won't even argue Calgary has the better sports station (because they actually broadcast the odd Jays game!) but the Vipers are at the bottom of the pile.  Last season, their games were broadcast on a competing station on the internet only. 

Winnipeg would be the best option if a AAA team were to move to the prairies.  The Goldeyes led the Northern League in attendance once again with an average of 6,542 fans per game, four times more than Edmonton or Calgary.  The Alberta teams continued to have the worst attendance in the league with averages of 1,792 and 1,551, respectively.  Winnipeg has a beautiful new stadium and no competition from an NHL hockey team.  They're also closer to Toronto than Edmonton or Calgary.  With a population of around 700,000 people Winnipeg is large enough to support a team.  Calgary and Edmonton may have joined the other four Canadian cities with populations over 1,000,000 (census metropolitan areas), but that doesn't necessarily mean that fans from those cities will go to ball games.  Ottawa is our fourth largest city and certainly hasn't been very successful with its AAA team.  In Winnipeg the fan base and stadium are already in place. 

Personally I'd like to see Buffalo or London get a AAA team since I live in the area, but Winnipeg would also be nice since my wife is from there and I (have to) visit often.  We went to Syracuse this summer but the drive was just too far.

Winnipeg's attendance is already at AAA level. Most of the teams in the International League are in the 6,000 to 9,000 range of average attendance. Charlotte and Richmond fell below that, as did Ottawa (far, far below). 2007 attendance figures:

 http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/about/page.jsp?ymd=20061214&content_id=148614&vkey=about_l117&fext=.jsp&sid=l117

Winnipeg might be a better geographic fit with the PCL than the IL.