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The GM meetings have started up and Ricciardi says that the Jays are open to listening to offers on AJ Burnett.

Update:  Ricciardi takes it back.


There's a couple things that apparently are triggering this. One is that Burnett has an opt out clause after next season. The other reason is that the Jays seemingly are frustrated with Burnett staying on the mound.

I mentioned a little while back that I didn't think that Burnett had a whole lot of trade value. If you're trading for him, he pitches well, and is healthy at the end of the season you only have him for one year. If he bombs or gets hurt he's likely not to opt out and then the team acquiring him is on the hook for $24 million over the next 2 years.

So what's one year of Burnett worth at $12 million? I'm not really sure. Nate Silver at BP suggested that Burnett was worth "one Grade-A prospect".

It's hard to imagine that the Jays trading Burnett makes the team better in 2008 - even being injured for 10 starts a year he's pretty valuable on the mound. And in the event the Jays made the playoffs don't you want a pitcher like Burnett on the mound?

As Silver put it trading Burnett "would still leave the glass of the 2010 Blue Jays no better than half-full, while ruining any hopes of contention for this year, and making a lot of the big-dollar veteran contracts pointless".

So I think this will generate some interesting things in the GM and winter meetings, but ultimately I'm guessing that nothing comes of it and Burnett's pitching for the Jays next year.

Burnett on the Block? | 105 comments | Create New Account
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Gerry - Tuesday, November 06 2007 @ 08:44 PM EST (#175871) #

What would JP ask for?  A shortstop?  A catcher?  A younger starting pitcher?  All of the above.

I heard Theo Epstein talking today about the Sox re-signing Schilling because it's impossible to acquire a pitcher.  The free agent pool is very thin in pitching.  I would think Burnett would get a lot of interest.

andrewkw - Tuesday, November 06 2007 @ 09:13 PM EST (#175873) #
One thing to consider would be to trade AJ + a player to be named later.  I believe you get a year to name that player and if he hurts himself and doesn't opt out you throw in a moderate prospect or 5th starter type player and if he doesn't hurt himself you send the 25th man from A ball.

If the jays plan on contending then they should at least look into extending AJ and see what it would take for him to not opt out.  They love to backload contracts so perhaps giving him a couple years at 17 or 18 million added on + some incentives would do it. I have no idea what he'd be looking at on the free agent market, 5/75?  more?



jeff mcl - Tuesday, November 06 2007 @ 09:25 PM EST (#175875) #
Unlike this offseason, there are alot of very good to stud starters available after next season.  A cursory look shows the following:

Johan Santana, CC Sabathia, Jake Peavy, Brad Penny, Jon Garland, Ben Sheets, Derek Lowe, Aaron Cook, Oliver Perez, and maybe Pedro Martinez.

AJ has come exactly as advertised: he's frequently excellent and IS going to miss some time due to injury every summer.  If this opt out provision is weighing so heavily on JP why did he agree to include it in AJ's contract in the first place?  But, on the other hand, if we truly are spread the limit dollarwise, I can understand why he'd like to free up cash for a run at one of the above after next year. 

CaramonLS - Tuesday, November 06 2007 @ 09:34 PM EST (#175876) #

I'm still not getting why people think AJ would opt out.

Sure, AJ can be the most dominating pitcher in MLB when: He is healthy, when he isn't a wuss, is throwing well, hitting his spots, blah blah blah, but to date, he hasn't had one of those seasons which is going to garner him a raise above the 12 million he is going to make.  So if AJ has another typical 20-25 start season, is there a team in MLB who is going to touch him with that sort of 15/18 million a season type deal?  Long term?  Not a chance.

Those stars haven't decided to align yet.

Do you trade AJ though?  Depends on what you get back, but it better be good, and you're basically deciding to mail in the season too.  I know that wasn't part of JP's '5 year plan' (on year what now?).  Who knows though, this team could make many smarter moves before trying to trade AJ though.

parrot11 - Tuesday, November 06 2007 @ 09:58 PM EST (#175877) #

If the jays plan on contending then they should at least look into extending AJ and see what it would take for him to not opt out.  They love to backload contracts so perhaps giving him a couple years at 17 or 18 million added on + some incentives would do it. I have no idea what he'd be looking at on the free agent market, 5/75?  more?

I'm sorry but that just a horrible idea. In the current state of the market (remember, Meche and Lilly are getting similar money), AJ is probably worth around what he's making. But overpaying a high risk pitcher, when there will be plenty of decent replacements available makes no sense at all. IMO, if AJ opts just take the draft picks and move on.

As for what Burnett is worth on the open market, I doubt he's worth a "grade A" prospect (which I assume is a Travis Snider caliber prospect). If I'm a team there's no way I make that trade, especially when I can add a little extra and get Santana (assuming that he's available). Think of it this way, Blue Jays fans would not be willing to trade Travis Snider for one year of Mark Mulder or Rafael Furcal.

John Northey - Tuesday, November 06 2007 @ 10:05 PM EST (#175878) #
Oy vey.  The rumour mill this winter really, really sucks.  First rumours about dumping Glaus and now AJ?  What's next, are we going to see Halladay, Wells, and Rios traded for prospects too?

While I think JP has made some mistakes with these guys dumping and running is not the solution.  The Jays have the cash to afford to eat these contracts and Glaus and AJ both could be very big assets in '08.  If someone knocks JP's socks off then go ahead and deal but if he really is looking to dump guys this winter then this team deserves to see attendance drop like a stone.  

jeff mcl - Tuesday, November 06 2007 @ 10:11 PM EST (#175879) #
Psyche!  Somebody press "mute" on this guy, please.

Ricciardi says Blue Jays not actively shopping starter A.J. Burnett

Tue Nov 6 20:20:07 CST 2007

Shi Davidi, THE CANADIAN PRES



Toronto Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi says starter A.J. Burnett is not on the trading block...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/sports/story/4072160p-4673623c.html

Magpie - Tuesday, November 06 2007 @ 11:11 PM EST (#175881) #
Yeah, it's probably a good idea to see exactly what Ricciardi said to ESPN:

We like having A.J. here. He gives us a good opportunity to win in 2008, and that's our main objective right now. But we're open-minded.If someone blew us away, we'd be foolish not to listen. If someone came to us tomorrow and said, 'We'll give you this, this and this for him,' we'd be foolish not to look at it.

Not exactly shopping him.

ANationalAcrobat - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 12:57 AM EST (#175882) #
Who knows what JP means, he has absolutely no scruples about lying to the press - remember what he said when he was being crucifed over BJ's back, "it's not a lie if we know the truth."

I'd seriously consider trading what is certainly 1 year of Burnett for 12 million for Tejada for 2 years/26 million - perhaps the O's would make a payment to equalise the salaries as well. Tejada does have considerable upside, is very durable, and still young enough that he should be in his prime. I would expect a sharp year from him if he got a change of scenery. Perhaps that's all moot though, since it seems doubtful that the O's would want one year of Burnett...ehh, who knows what the O's want to do.

Burnett will opt out. Even if he has 10 starts next year, he's still worth more than 2 years/24 million. I doubt the Jays will want to/be able to re-sign him after '08 - JP has been quite critical of AJ over the last two years.

I'm still not getting why people think AJ would opt out.

Caramon, you're underrating AJ here. If Zito gets well in excess of 18 million/year, I think AJ does too, but only for three or so years - unless he makes 35 starts in '08, in which case he might get four or five years.

ayjackson - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 01:18 AM EST (#175883) #

Unlike this offseason, there are alot of very good to stud starters available after next season.  A cursory look shows the following:

Johan Santana, CC Sabathia, Jake Peavy, Brad Penny, Jon Garland, Ben Sheets, Derek Lowe, Aaron Cook, Oliver Perez, and maybe Pedro Martinez.

I'd bet Santana, Sabathia, Peavy, Penny, Sheets and maybe Perez are all extended long before they hit free agency - and not necessarily by their current clubs (I'm looking at you, Johan).

unclejim - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 04:58 AM EST (#175886) #
Reality check please...

If you're the GM of a team and you're looking to contend then you'd be a fool not to listen to offers for everyone. No-one is untradable if the right offer came along. Halladay for A-Rod... yep, in an instant. McGowan for Verlander... ditto.  anyone complaining when this or that player becomes 'available' seems to always be assuming the worse case, that they'll be given away for peanuts. SF have announced Tim Lincecum is availalbe, doesn't mean they'd give him to us for Accardo does it.

Me, I would sooner support a club where I thought the GM was trying everything in order to improve the team... get creative, see whats out there.

If you judge the off season by the team that is put on the field April 1st, not on every rumour or half truth printed in various papers and you'll probably have a much better Xmas...

With AJ, he's exactly the kind of player worth offer. If a bad FA market for pitchers lets see what we can get back for a pitcher who, lets be honest, is likely to only be around for another season, but could still be traded on the basis of having a 3 year deal...

Good job JP.

Lefty - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 07:46 AM EST (#175887) #
Just an idea.

Overbay and Burnett to Seattle for Adrian Beltre and Adam Jones.

Troy Glaus makes the necessary switch to first.

Of course the Mariners have to figure out what to do with Richie Sexson.

Seattle needs another arm and Overbay is already a crowd favorite at Safeco.

Chuck - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 08:20 AM EST (#175888) #

Overbay and Burnett to Seattle for Adrian Beltre and Adam Jones.

The only way even a fool like Bavasi bites on a trade like that is if Sexson is included, with no strings, i.e., contract relief, attached.

Pistol - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 09:12 AM EST (#175889) #
I think Rosenthal hits it on the head here:
The Blue Jays will listen to offers for right-hander A.J. Burnett and third baseman Troy Glaus, but they're reluctant to make any move that would weaken their club next season.
Barry Bonnell - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 09:58 AM EST (#175891) #

I'm still not getting why people think A.J will opt out

If he has a career year then he would be crazy not to. He has two years remaining at 12 million per. He could get a 5 year 60 million contract from someone else.

Even if he has a year like 2007  he could still get a 4-5 year deal at 10 million per. Someone will pay him that much.

Wildrose - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 10:19 AM EST (#175892) #
Posada a Blue Jay?  Not likely, probably his agent just trying to drive up the market, but the rumor  is out there.
bryanttelfer - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 10:32 AM EST (#175893) #

I can't see Posada with the Jays. He wants a 4-5 year deal, likely in the neighbourhood of $12M-$14M per year. While he's certainly the best catcher on the market right now, that's an expensive contract for someone who is in the decline stage of their career, especially with young prospects likely only a year or two away from a starting position. If it was '06, absolutely. Now, I don't see the value being there against the cost/duration of the contract.

I see Zaun, TBA vetern/Fasano and Thigpen behind the plate this year, with Diaz on the 40 man to finish it off. In '09, barring issues, you'll likely see Diaz/Thigpen.

CaramonLS - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 11:33 AM EST (#175894) #

36 year old catchers on long term deals scare me.

Maybe a 2 year with a club option for the 3rd (2 million 3rd year buyout or something fair).

Yes, IF AJ has a career year, he can opt out.  However, if he has one of his "typical" ones, he wont opt out.  The BEST he could hope for, is another year or 2 tacked on at 12 million, so, 4/48.

Zito has a far, far better track record than AJ could think of having.  AJ hasn't shown he is better than a .500 pitcher in his career, Zito on the other hand has a lot more hardware to justify getting that contract.

John Northey - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 12:07 PM EST (#175895) #
Calming down now... two days of hearing rumours the Jays were dumping players when they have tons of cash was getting to me :P

Posada does make some sense. Catching for '08 as the #1 catcher, spending '09 as a mix between catching and DH depending on Thomas, '10 as the DH and backup catcher (carry 3 catchers at that point), '11 as the everyday DH and emergency catcher.

His offense isn't great for a DH, but dang good for a catcher. His worst season was a 91 OPS+ with no other seasons (300+ AB's) below 109. His worst OBP is 341, his worst Slg% is 401 (both the year of the 91 OPS+).

Zaun on the other hand has a career OBP of 344 and Slg of 388, OPS+ of 90, or in other words Zaun's average is worse than the worst that Posada has ever done.

Frank Thomas was a 125 OPS+ here last season, 140 the year before. Posada has had a 125 or better OPS+ 4 times and a 110+ 8 times out of 10 full seasons (what I view as the minimum for a DH/1B).

Is Posada worth signing to a 5 year deal? No. But if he is open to becoming a part time catcher, full time DH as the years wear on him then a 4 year deal could work (perhaps a 5th year as an option if he gets a certain amount of playing time), especially since the Jays seem to feel Thigpen is an infielder and not a catcher (make him a super-utility guy thus making a 3 catcher situation easier to deal with). I think the dollars will get too high for the Jays liking though and the Yanks will blow a fortune ($60 million over 4 years, or if they are totally insane $75 over 5) to ensure they keep someone around for '08 and beyond.

If I ran the Jays I'd look at going up to Posada and giving him the best offer we are willing to give (say, $40 million over 3 years with a reachable playing time option for years 4 & 5 at $14 million each) as soon as he can sign officially ala the Frank Thomas signing last year. Tell him this is as far as we can go and it is open until we sign someone - be it him or someone else.
Pistol - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 12:30 PM EST (#175897) #
The difference is that there's a lot of teams that need a catcher and last year there were very few teams (2?) that were going to be considering Frank Thomas.

I don't think that having Thigpen or Diaz means the Jays shouldn't sign Posada.  But I can't see where the Jays can afford him (they'd have to start at 4 for $60) if they're sticking to $90 million and not bumping that up significantly in future years.

Chuck - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 01:42 PM EST (#175899) #

Posada does make some sense.

I think that while we'd all love to see the Yankees lose Posada and Rivera, I just can't see it happening. You look at the back of their baseball cards and you only see one team listed. That says at least a little something about their aversion to change, though I grant that the Yankees have historically flashed enough green at the two of them to render moot any serious consideration for change.

Further to the above, I think that the Steinbrenner lads will be especially willing to pay a premium to keep a couple of Yankee lifers in pinstripes. They want to be seen as competent and in control, just like dad, especially in light of the ARod debacle (which, admittedly, seems to have been out of their hands). To, on their watch, lose still valuable commodities that link to them to their World Series successes would be an ignominious start to their reign.

ANationalAcrobat - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 01:44 PM EST (#175900) #
Zito has durability, which is why he got such a long deal. Burnett has stuff, strikeouts, and a low-ish ERA. He'll get similar money, just way fewer years.
Wildrose - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 02:28 PM EST (#175901) #
I'm glad Glaus and Burnett both appear to be on the market.  Glaus has a player option as well after 2008 to become a free agent. Both these players represent diminishing assets that should be moved. The problem is that we have a G.M. over the barrel.  A poor performance in 2008 could mean J.P. gets shown the door ( although personally I think he'll last to 2010  ), the pressure is on to  compete and short term benefit may trump long term development.

Tejada might be an interesting fit, he's disgruntled in Baltimore, meanwhile Burnett is from the area and  the Jays are openly questioning his toughness. The Orioles probably want a young package of players, but Burnett if given a chance to extend his contract may be a good fit for them.

Tejada circa 2004-2006 was a 25-30 linear batting runs above average player ( given the poor offense  of the typical shortstop he'd be about 45 runs above the average shortstop). In 2007 he had a wrist injury and dipped to 6.1 batting runs. The question is if he starting on the downwards slope or was this an injury anomaly? Rally has him projected as a league average defender in 2008 using zone rating. Basically if he hits like he did in 2006 and is a league average player defensively, he's a  4 win player ( Tango has each marginal win at about $4.5 million and climbing), meaning he should be paid at $18 million/year. At 13 million in 2008/2009 if he can recover he'd be good value.

 
groove - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 02:32 PM EST (#175902) #
Off topic - The gold gloves were announced a little while ago and I think the Jays got snubbed. Wells loses his gold glove to Sizemore and Johnny Mac and Hill got passed over for other new winners.  At least Jeter lost his.
Wildrose - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 02:45 PM EST (#175903) #
Yesterday they  released the American Gold Glove winners. Looking at the Fielding Bible however, ( poke around a little bit on this site) you could make a strong case  that 3 Jays, McDonald, Hill and Rios truly deserved better recognition. 
Frank Markotich - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 03:14 PM EST (#175904) #

Wildrose, the fact that Glaus and Burnett can opt out after 2008 does make them short-term assets, but it doesn't follow from that that they should be moved.

What would you trade them for? Prospects? If so, what is your plan and your timetable for contention?

The team is set up to attempt to contend now. I hope you aren't suggesting a permanent treadmill strategy - keep dealing off good players for the "future" as soon as they become expensive or can leave.

 

John Northey - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 03:55 PM EST (#175906) #
Tejada for AJ? Some tempting aspects to that. Contracts are not drastically different this year. If Tejada is really unhappy in Baltimore and they are desperate (media reports appear to be saying this) things get interesting.

What if...
Baltimore wants young pitching (who doesn't) thus the Jays could send them Chacin & Litsch plus a prospect. Jays look like clear winners to anyone who pays attention to K/IP and its projection ability but the Orioles might go 'young lefty, young rightie, both with recent success for a malcontent'.

That would strengthen the Jays for '08/'09. However, like I said, it would be a bad move for Baltimore so I doubt it although it makes more sense for them than AJ would unless they really think they are ready to climb 25+ games in the standings.
Frank Markotich - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 04:07 PM EST (#175907) #

John, I can't imagine Chacin and Litsch getting you Tejada. I suppose there's no harm in asking.

I say keep Glaus and Burnett (barring the proverbial "knock your socks off" offer), and if they leave after 2008, they leave. Take the draft choices and the saved dollars and see what's available through free agency or trade at that time. I strongly doubt anybody's going to give up a top notch major league ready player for a one year rental. Otherwise, it's just a salary dump so rogers can save money. Whoopee.

Wildrose - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 04:07 PM EST (#175908) #

The team is set up to attempt to contend now. I hope you aren't suggesting a permanent treadmill strategy - keep dealing off good players for the "future" as soon as they become expensive or can leave



It's not as simple as you make it. There's probably an 80-90% chance Glaus and Burnett will both opt out after 2008. The team needs to decide to;

A.) Keep them , try to contend and then take the draft choices in 2009.

B.)  Keep them, compete  and then let them go and spend the money elsewhere in 2009.

C.)  Try to "buy" out the player option  by  extending their contracts.

D.)  Trade them for a mixture of prospects (  e.g.  Adam LaRoche )  or as I've somewhat suggested, trade for a veteran like Tejada.

I have more patience than most, so I'd maximize my resources by choosing D. I can certainly however, see the argument for A and B . Lots of other variables such as future financial resources, the effects of Mitchel's investigation, the scope of Burnett's injury all need to be considered.






 

Pistol - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 04:14 PM EST (#175909) #
Both these players represent diminishing assets that should be moved.

Well, the key is to recognize this before they reach that point.  Both players are essentially the same as they were when they were acquired, just 2 years older.
Chuck - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 04:42 PM EST (#175910) #

[re: Tejada] The question is if he starting on the downwards slope or was this an injury anomaly?

Strictly speaking, most every non-pitcher past 28 should theoretically be heading down the slope. That said, it's funny how rose-coloured glasses preclude this same amount of (appropriate) scrutiny from being applied to players on the home side.

Overbay, Glaus and Johnson are all a year or less younger than Tejada, but card carrying members of Optimists R Us all assert, with great confidence, that it is only a return to good health that stands in the way of a return to their former glory. The very odd player improves in his 30s (Molitor, Zaun). Some players retain their value into their 30s (Alomar). Most players, however, head downhill in their 30s with a handful retaining enough of their value (Winfield, McGriff) to stay useful. Most others (Bell, Moseby, Barfield) just entirely fall apart due to a combination of injury and/or diminished ability.

While Overbay and Johnson are good bets to bounce back from disastrous 2007 seasons, will they bounce back far enough to be useful? Will Glaus ever again be a 500 AB player? While there's no reason to take a purely pessimistic view, any optimism on all three fronts has to be tempered. Any gameplan which counts on 2006 redux from these three is entirely too naive for my tastes.

Returning to Tejada, it's tough to get a consistent take on his defense. If he is, in fact, an average or better defender, then his bat, being swung by a shortstop, is still good enough to mean that he can offer value, even if 2007 represents his new level. Not many shortstops can put up a 296/357/442 line.

Mike Green - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 04:47 PM EST (#175911) #
Here are Burnett's age 30 BBRef comparables.  He's a better pitcher than most of them, but seeing the Guzmans and Kerry Wood there is kind of funny.  Burnett  has been better post-TJ than he was before it, but 160-170 innings is probably a reasonable expectation from him. I don't know that he is a diminishing asset, if one means from the performance, as opposed to contract, perspective.
Wildrose - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 05:03 PM EST (#175913) #
I have Burnett as a diminishing asset from a contractual aspect. Rather than taking draft choices  ( which the truth be known in the long term may be the best strategy)  or re-investing the money in 2009,  I'd try to control my own destiny by seeing what the market for Burnett or Glaus holds.  It may not be much, but there's no harm in being pro-active.  I don't see many takers for option C, extending the contracts at a higher value. As Chuck points out it's rarely a good choice given the players in question, respective  age and health histories.
Mylegacy - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 07:24 PM EST (#175916) #

I think we have to keep AJ until the end of 08 at the least. There is no combination of moves involving removing him that I can see being as productive as just keeping him. We really have a chance in 08 and to lose his one healthy year would make my brain hurt.  The only move that I even marginally like is a trade for Tejada, but I can't see the Orioles doing that anyway.

I'm not too concerned with losing AJ after 08. I've got that funny feeling I get now and then - for some reason - I've got a really good feeling about Purcey. He's doing quite well in the AFL and I BELIEVE he's turning the corner with his control. I think he's the "08 Minor League Surprise." However, if I'm right about Purcey, it would be great to have Roy, AJ, McG, Purcey and Janssen or whomever till 2012! How sweet it is!

Ducey - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 08:13 PM EST (#175917) #

I might trade Glaus because he seems to be permanently hobbled by something or another.  However, I cannot see trading Burnett as some have suggested.  He still can be a dominant if inconsistent pitcher.

There appear to be few steady Eddies on this team with only Hill, Rios and Halladay giving me any sense of reliability.  The fact is that this team is (and I guess most teams are to a lesser extent) a whole series of gambles.  The return you will get for almost any of the Jays is much less than what they are worth to the Jays if they have one of their better years.  If they all do have slightly above career average years I think this is a contending team.  This is not likely but is possible and I think therefore you have to go with Burnett and the rest and just cross your fingers.

Besides, even giving up a league average starter these days is a bad move with pitching so hard to come by.  The best part of the team last year was the pitching.  You have to expect a step back from a Marcum or a McGowan or whomever.  You need as much depth as you can get.

Finally, there will be the chance to dump AJ at the trade deadline (with his permission of course).  I think that is a better time to judge whether he is likely to bail and where the team is at.

R Billie - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 08:18 PM EST (#175919) #

The only way I think you can remove Burnett and still compete in 2008 is by making very significant follow up moves to take advantage of a somewhat deep free agent outfield class.

You gain $11 or $12M by moving Burnett (assuming you take no salary back) and hopefully at least one good young player who can be ready to contribute either right away or by 2009.  You also move one of your outfield or DH assets for another resource, perhaps on the pitching side or left half of the infield.  And finally you sign up a veteran outfielder to fill the void of the asset you traded, perhaps making Stairs your DH on most days.

This would require a very active off-season where a lot of things were made to go your way.  The issue is your most tradeable outfielder is Alex Rios and he's also the guy you should probably most want to keep, what with him being one of the best two-way rightfielders in baseball.  You'd be selling very low on Wells and Reed Johnson probably has very little market...if you couldn't move him to leverage his career 2006 season, it's unlikely you'd move him for anything worthwhile right now.

greenfrog - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 09:47 PM EST (#175921) #
What makes JP an average GM is that he doesn't have a coherent long-term plan (compare the way the Indians, Tigers, Yankees or Red Sox are run). JP just makes it up as he goes along, year-to-year. He has made some good moves (for example, Accardo, Snider, Hill, Janssen), but hasn't done enough to build a solid foundation for the organization.

I think JP has two options. He could go for it, team-briefcase style. Keep AJ, acquire a frontline SS or catcher (or both), a solid backup 3B (like Lamb or Ensberg) and aim squarely for the postseason. Then start rebuilding in 2009 and 2010 when the veterans retire, go into decline, or depart via free agency.

Or he could take a page from the Oakland or Florida manual and trade expensive veterans now (while they still have market value) for young talent. In other words, rebuild the team around Rios, Hill, Wells, Snider, Lind, the talent in the low minors, and a good young pitching staff. Aggressively trade AJ, Glaus, and maybe even Halladay or BJ Ryan for the next wave of Hanley Ramirez's and Dan Haren's. Look to start seriously contending year-in, year-out around 2010.

The obvious problem, which JP seems unable to admit, is that right now the team isn't a legitimate postseason contender. They're a legitimate 82-90-win team.

Based on his track record, I'm guessing JP tries to have it both ways, and misses both opportunities by trying to take the middle path.
brent - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 10:01 PM EST (#175923) #
(Off Topic From MLB.com)Explaining his decision to re-up Mota, Minaya added: "I knew at the time that he was a user and I went ahead and signed him. He was caught. He admitted it. So I said, 'OK, we'll sign him, knowing that he made a mistake.' Look, people make mistakes. I'm one who believes people should be given a second chance." If I were Bud Selig, I would be making a nasty phone call to the Mets GM and remind him about him about plausible deniability.If GMs start admitting to things, then Bud can't continue to pretend what he does and doesn't know. Will JP want to wait until the Mitchell Report comes out?
melondough - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 10:48 PM EST (#175925) #

Maybe we can keep AJ and still have money left over to persue a decent SS.  This brings me to my currency exchange rate point.

Over the past few days I have been wondering how much of a competitive advantage Ted (and therefore JP) may gain from the increase in the Cdn $ versus the Greenback.  In James Munroe's article titled "Blue Jays hit a currency home run", it appears that for every cent the Cdn $ gains against the the U.S$, the team gets a $720,000 benefit.  I have to assume that this number takes into account any currency heding the bean counters have made.  I found it humourous that Godfrey feels even a loonie worth $2 U.S. would not tempt them to bid on Arod.

Doing a little number crunching of my own, I found that so far this year the Cdn $ has increased against the US $ by 26.3% while a lesser 8% since the Jays played their last game of 2007.  This equates to a $5.7M befefit to ownership since October 1st and a $19M windfall YTD!  Seems to me that they need to hedge some of this gain now (although I can see $1.20 exchange if China does as expected and takes their peg off the US $).  I say that they should spend $3-$5 million now to improve the team.

Here is the link: http://www.680news.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20071107_151329_5204

timpinder - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 10:57 PM EST (#175927) #
Rotoworld just posted that Brad Lidge has been traded to the Phillies in a five player deal.
scottt - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 11:00 PM EST (#175928) #

The team needs to decide to;

A.) Keep them , try to contend and then take the draft choices in 2009.

B.)  Keep them, compete  and then let them go and spend the money elsewhere in 2009.

C.)  Try to "buy" out the player option  by  extending their contracts.

D.)  Trade them for a mixture of prospects (  e.g.  Adam LaRoche )  or as I've somewhat suggested, trade for a veteran like Tejada.

Actually, there's only 2 choices, you trade them or you keep them.

I would think the idea is to work with the young players--which are cheap--and to fill the critical roles with Veterans.
The team is trying to contend now so they can't just trade a player for prospects.

The only way realistic way you can swap veterans with another team is if they have  depth at a position like the Braves did at SS.

The Toronto Sun reports the Jays, who have little financial flexibility for next season, go into the GM meetings looking for another catcher - someone like Mike Lieberthal.  I don't see why Thigpen can't be the backup.

Wishful thinking, but I'd like to see a genuine base stealer on the bench since the Jays use pinch runners for both Glaus and Thomas.


HollywoodHartman - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 11:21 PM EST (#175929) #

Brad Lidge is in fact a Philly. He and Eric Bruntlett were traded with Michael Bourne, Geoff Geary and Mike Costanzo going back to Houston. IMO Terrible move by Ed Wade.

-Rotoworld

TamRa - Wednesday, November 07 2007 @ 11:28 PM EST (#175932) #
I think it's a given that the Jays buy AJ out of his opt out. An extra 2 mil in '09, 3 on '10, and a 2 mil signing bonus. Maybe even extend it a year at 15 so he and doc don't come up in the same year.

Outside of a major injury, I don't see the faintest reason why this wouldn't happen before the deadline to opt out ever occured. If I were JP I'd have the offer in hand as soon as the last out of the last jays game in 2008 was recorded.


Chuck - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 07:10 AM EST (#175934) #
IMO Terrible move by Ed Wade.

Let's see, that's one transaction for Wade, one middle reliever acquired. Just watch him this off-season. I bet he can't make a transaction without acquiring one. Not sure if the genome project will ever be explain that particular propensity.
John Northey - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 08:00 AM EST (#175935) #
melondough - should look back at the A-Rod thread and my article on how the Jays can afford a $125 million payroll.  Basically I figured, based on publicly available data, that the Jays have about $100 million in Canadian revenue each year (tv contract, tickets, with the concessions going to cover the costs of the dome).  This means each penny shift equals another million in the bank.  Mix in that Bud said the average revenue in baseball is $200 million per team, the fact the Jays are in one of the top 10 markets in baseball (based on population for the greater city area) and perhaps one of the top 5, the fact they have exclusive control for TV purposes of a market of over 30 million (bigger than any other club) and you have a team rolling in the cash right now.

If the Jays decided they wanted to win they could easily afford A-Rod even at $30-$35 million a year.  If they decided they wanted to win right now and didn't want A-Rod they could easily afford both Barry Bonds & Jorge Posada.  That is why I get so angry when I hear of the Jays locking in at $90 million and that they might add $10 million to it.  Last winter they were willing to go to $110 million (based on the Lilly & Meche offers) with a dollar that cost them about $20 million in revenue vs this year.

Sigh.  No point in yelling anymore.  Seems the Jays are determined to line Rogers pockets in '08 then, once JP's contract runs out, they might decide to go for it again.  

Squiggy - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 08:11 AM EST (#175937) #
Or he could take a page from the Oakland or Florida manual and trade expensive veterans now (while they still have market value) for young talent. In other words, rebuild the team around Rios, Hill, Wells, Snider, Lind, the talent in the low minors, and a good young pitching staff. Aggressively trade AJ, Glaus, and maybe even Halladay or BJ Ryan for the next wave of Hanley Ramirez's and Dan Haren's. Look to start seriously contending year-in, year-out around 2010.

Great post, I could not agree more.... there is no reason to expect different results in 2008 with this same team is there? The JP 2008 party line seems to be that all good things from 2007 will repeat (i.e. young pitchers emerging, Hill improving), while none of the bad will happen (injuries and/or inconsistency from Ryan, Glaus, Wells, Overbay et al.).

AJ is an absolutely perfect candidate to trade in this very weak pitching market. In particular, a team like the Cardinals, with a chance to sign him long-term, might give an impressive bounty.

Frank Markotich - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 08:45 AM EST (#175938) #

John - I would like to know how you arrive at your Blue Jays revenue numbers.

How do you get $100 million in Canadian revenue (based on public information)? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would like to know the breakdown.

To this you have to add the $US revenues. This would be the national TV and radio amounts, merchandising, whatever they get now from MLBAM. Maybe I'm forgetting something else here.

Saying the average team has $200 million in revenues is meaningless in the context of the Blue Jays. You have to do the specifics for each team.

Ditto, talking about the market size of Canada isn't relevant unless it can be translated into revenues.

melondough - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 09:20 AM EST (#175939) #

Thanks for your Reply John but I have to agree with Frank that there are some pretty braod assumptions you made there.  Even still, your $1M estimate of gain per Cdn penny increase is close enough to the $720k estimate in the article I quoted.  So, I think we can assume that the actual number is somewhere in this ballpark.  I have to agree that Ted is looking to line the pockets of the Corp.  Also, have to agree that it is very frustrating why the team seemed willing to go past $100M last November but not so this time around - YES VERY FRUSTRATING!  This is especially aggrevating when it now seems we don't need to overspend on pitching, making it possible to concentrate on either one of our biggest needs - a power hitting SS or C.

I should have added in my last posting that I am 100% certain we should move Glaus.  There are two reasons:

1) His type of foot injury is the type that could very well be a cronic one (kind of like Forsberg - yes I know its a different part of the foot)

2) The Jays HAVE TO get faster.  They cannot have Glaus and Thomas in the same lineup (not to mention Overbay and Stairs).  If there is anyway we can get Figgins to play 3rd (he was available last year and if the Angles sign Arod that would make it even more plausible) then JP needs to explore that.  They also have to once again run more - they are WAY too one-dimensional.

melondough - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 09:23 AM EST (#175940) #
Oops, I misread your posting.  Not sure where I got the idea you made a $1M increase assumption from - sorry.
ayjackson - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 10:43 AM EST (#175942) #

From Rotoworld it appears as though the Twins are trying to find a good young hitter and are dangling Matt Garza.  They've reportedly shown interest in Chase Headley in SD and Young and Upton in TB.  This may indicate that the Twins are fairly confident in being able to extend Santana.

I wonder if Lind/Johnson would get the discussion started for Garza?  Lind would be the good young bat and Johnson could help out there CF situation (though not likely on his own).  Adding Garza to our stable of young pitchers would be a coup.

China fan - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 10:47 AM EST (#175943) #
   melondough -- I hate to burst your bubble of optimism on the Canadian dollar, but China will not remove the yuan's peg to the US dollar.  China will continue to allow some gradual appreciation of the yuan against the US dollar, but it will not be totally unpegged.   (I can say that reliably, as the only Bauxite to be based full-time in China.)   However, notwithstanding this point, the Canadian dollar will continue to rise.  It might even hit $1.20 without any help from China.  How much does that help the Jays to increase their budget?  Unfortunately my crystal ball does not extend that far.
John Northey - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 11:14 AM EST (#175944) #
Hi Frank.

The $200 million per team is based on Bud saying MLB revenue is $6 billion - divide by 30 teams and you get $200 million each. Given the Jays are in, by any measure available, the 6th largest market (the NY's, LA's are clearly larger even split in two while Philly and Miami are slightly ahead in size with the Rangers next at almost 700k fewer people availble when you include Dallas) and possibly the 3rd largest when you factor in the massive potential TV audience that is exclusive territory for them (all of Canada) there is no logical way they can be in the bottom half of revenue.

As to Canadian revenue - take $23 per seat (the US dollar value last year) times 2.5 million (rough estimate) and you get $57.5 million. I can't find the source, but I could swear the Jays sold tv rights to TSN and CBC for around 200k per game. If you use that as the value of their games on tv and multiple by 150 (roughly the number shown) you get another $30 million. That puts us at $87.5 million. There are also other sources of revenue on a per game basis for concessions, advertising, parking, etc. If they average $5 per person coming to a game (low estimate I'm sure) you end up with another $12.5 million or $100 million total.

As to where the other $100 comes from, you have around $5-10 million a year from the satellite radio business, $20 million from TV rights, $20-30 million from merchandise (shared by all teams so when a person buys a Yankee cap 1/30th of it goes to the Jays), a big chunk from international rights (Japan is a big market) that has never been reported, and internet revenue which appears to have passed all other shared revenue based on reports.

If you check Forbes (who are known to be fairly accurate) they list the Jays as having $157 million in revenue in '06 and an $11 million profit. Their overall figures for MLB were over $1 billion below what Bud said they were. So just using that simple measure you get an extra 20% in revenue - or $31.4 million - added to the Jays figures pushing them to $188.4 million. Add in what Godfrey admits to (720k per penny) and a 20 cent gain since last winter and you get another $14.4 million which shifts them to $202.8 million US in revenue.

There is no way the Jays can avoid rolling in cash in 2008. If they keep their payroll sub-100 million Rogers will be very happy with profits that will be in the Maple Leaf range ($50 million+). If any club can afford A-Rod it is the Jays. Sadly, like the Leafs (and Marlins in baseball), they appear willing to be mediocre and rich rather than winning with a lower profit margin.
ANationalAcrobat - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 11:35 AM EST (#175945) #
Adding Garza to our stable of young pitchers would be a coup.

A coup indeed! It's a bit shocking he's even available, though the Twins did have problems with his attitude early in '07. I'm not sure Johnson/Lind would be of that much interest to them - maybe last year, but right now the Twins would probably be looking for Alex Rios.

Trading Rios sounds disastrous - he's young, affordable, a very good hitter, and an excellent defender. On the other hand, his numbers against righties: 283/334/468. There are not many situations where trading Rios puts us ahead, but you do have to give talent to get it in return. Would an outfield of Wells/Lind/Johnson/Stairs be suitable until Snider is ready? What if it meant having a rotation of Halladay, Burnett, McGowan, Marcum, Garza/Lincecum?

Ehh, it's always worth being aware of your options.

ayjackson - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 12:40 PM EST (#175946) #
Well Rios for Garza would be a considerable overpayment.
ayjackson - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 12:48 PM EST (#175947) #
There's a video piece on Patterson and Snider at MiLB.com.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 02:57 PM EST (#175949) #
For what it's worth, the Twins originally drafted Adam Lind in the 2002 eighth round.
ayjackson - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 05:10 PM EST (#175951) #
Kyle Lohse and Carlos Silva are looking to score 4/$40m deals this winter.  In this kind of market, shouldn't Towers be offered arbitration ($2.2m, I believe) and trades explored.  To just let him walk seems a bit foolish.
John Northey - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 05:39 PM EST (#175953) #
I suspect JP has been looking for a partner for Towers but hasn't had much luck. I suspect once Lohse or Silva sign for stupid dollars ($10 mil per year qualifies) then someone will make a decent offer.

If not then the Jays would be smart to offer arbitration as they'd be stuck with no more than a $2-$3 million contract which is chicken feed vs being caught without a starter.
ayjackson - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 05:46 PM EST (#175954) #
I agree John.  Magpie came on here last month though and said that it was the worst kept secret in baseball that Towers would not be tendered.
scottt - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 05:47 PM EST (#175955) #
shouldn't Towers be offered arbitration ($2.2m, I believe) and trades explored.

He's out of options and it would really blow to pay him $2m and release him. They would have find a trade before they offer arbitration, if that's even legit.


Michael Bourn would have made a great platoon with Johnson to lead off. The Phillies traded him for a closer--the Jays have 2. Is Brad Lidge worth more than Accardo?

Miguel Cabrera is on the block. Apparently the Marlins want Hughes. It would be a coup if the Yankees can land him for Kennedy.

Once A-Rod, Lowell and Cabrera are off the market, bids will rise for Tejada, who is now viewed as a 3rd baseman. Bedard might be included in a package.  Baltimore looks pretty thin on paper right now.
melondough - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 06:41 PM EST (#175958) #

It's funny how you've lost all credibility in my eyes with that statement.

Since you didn't specify I will have to assume that you had an issue with both parts of my post.  I don't understand how you can say getting a player in Figgins and his measley 41 SB's and .330 average could be seen as an non credible alternative.  Maybe you looked over the fact that  he had 155 Sb's over the past 3 years and he can play 3B as well as OF.  As for my point about the Jays being too slow and suggesting that they should not proceed with both Thomas and Glaus in the same lineup, well I guess I don't like watching station to station ball as much as you may (not to mention all those DP's they ground into).  I guess you also don't mind watching many of our opponents use their speedsters to swipe bags almost at will without having much means to do the same (dont' get me started on Zaun's arm!)

Sorry but the entertainment value of station to station ball is just not appealing to me.  And yes, more omportantly I do think they would have a better chance to compete by having a more balanced approach, and that means moving Glaus for Figgins.  I think you may be caught up a bit too much in the names on the back of the shirts rather than the reality of what they can actually do for the team.

ANationalAcrobat - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 07:08 PM EST (#175960) #
I apologize for the disrespectful tone in my earlier post - I should have expressed myself respectfully and more specifically.

I have no issue with getting Figgins on board, though his value right now is sky-high when you consider what he's actually likely to do next year. He's a decent player who had a year he's unlikely to ever repeat.

I just think that Glaus, Thomas, Overbay, and Stairs are not the problem. I'd much rather have a team with an OBP over 327 (12th out of 14 in the AL) than one that steals more bases, which would only marginally improve our run total. In case you're interested, Baltimore and Tampa were first and third in stolen bases in the AL last year. The Angels were second, however they also had a team OBP of 345 - third in the AL.

Scoring runs > balanced approach.
melondough - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 07:38 PM EST (#175962) #

Good points ANational, but I don't think your analysis really factors in the intangibles that speed brings such as avoiding hitting into ralley killing DP's or extending innings by going first to third while allowing the hitter take 2nd.  Granted, it would be hard to quantify but I don't think you can label a team "fast" soley by looking at how many SB's they have. 

For me the bottom line is that in this specific case, we are talking about having two of the slower runners in the game in Thomas and Glaus hitting back to back.  I think the bigger issue for the Jays is that they do have some speed (Wells, Hill, Rios, MacDonald, Thigpen, and Johnson) with a manager unwilling to use it, although every spring he says he will.  Figgins would signal in a new era in style for the Jays and I think his best attribute would be very contagious.  In a post season interview last month, Vernon himself said that the reins were too tight on the runners this year.  As a side note, doesn;t anyone else find the Blue Jays style a bit boring?

timpinder - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 08:53 PM EST (#175963) #

Melondough,

It's likely to get worse next year too, since against righties we're probably going to see Thomas-Glaus-Stairs go 4-5-6, and if they Jays decide to put speed at the top of the order and break up the right-handed hitters, then Rios-Wells-Overbay(L)-Thomas-Glaus-Stairs(L) is possible.  That's one SLOW middle of the order!  But if Glaus goes back to hitting 35+ homers a year, which I expect he will, at least having two OBP guys in front of him should help produce runs, even if it's less exciting than watching speedsters on the bases.

John Northey - Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 09:31 PM EST (#175964) #
Thinking about the balanced approach reminds me of how much I enjoyed those mid-80's teams.  They were what made me a baseball fan.  Bell/Moseby/Barfield could & did hit 20+ home runs and steal 20+ bases.  Fernandez & Garcia were quite fast and would make contact with anything the pitcher threw.  Heck, even Upshaw at first had some speed.  Walks were sadly a rarity outside of Moseby & Barfield (plus Mulliniks of the platoon slot) but those teams were never dull.

I'd like to see some more running from Rios, Hill, Wells, Johnson, and anyone else who has some speed.  I can understand why we don't but I still would enjoy seeing it.
dalimon5 - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 12:45 AM EST (#175968) #
Vernon and Glaus will bounce back. And if Glaus has further problems with his foot, I think JP trades him by the end of May. Or, he can trade him right now. Rosenthal is reporting that Miguel Cabrera is being shopped, and that the Angel's are being asked by the Marlins to offer Howie Kendrick, Brandon Wood and Nick Adenhart. He then says the Dodgers could also jump in and offer the Marlins Kemp, Clayton Kershaw and La Roche. Now, this is all heresay by Rosenthal and pure speculation, but you have to think he is in the ballpark in terms of what these teams are being asked to offer, or are willing to part with. If I were JP I would offer Glaus to one of the LA teams, and ask for a third of the players they are apparently willing to part with. Think about it: if the Marlins call up the Angels and tell them they can have Miguel Cabrera for Kendrick, Wood and Adenhart...wouldn't it look almost as attractive if the Jays called the Angels and offered Troy Glaus (prob. less injured on natural grass) for Brandon Wood alone? On another note, has anyone seen the new TB jerseys? There quite nice. Find them over at the TB MLB site.

And one more thing, for the posters including Halladay in potential trades to rebuild a team to start competing in 2010, shame on you.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7421808
Magpie - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 04:27 AM EST (#175971) #
I suspect JP has been looking for a partner for Towers but hasn't had much luck. I suspect once Lohse or Silva sign for stupid dollars ($10 mil per year qualifies) then someone will make a decent offer.

The Jays will probably have to make their final call about Towers before those guys get signed. The deadline for offering arbitration is December 1, and the minimum they can offer Towers is $2.3 million. I find it hard to believe the Jays will make that offer, and I suspect that 29 other GMs find it hard to believe as well.

While there will certainly be conversations, and perhaps some informal agreements, most teams will wait until after December 1 before they start to seriously pursue free agents. After all, the ones who haven't been offered arbitration don't cost you any draft picks. If you sign a free agent before the arbitration deadline (the Cubs and Scott Eyre), the team losing the free agent "offers" arbitration and gets compensated.
Pistol - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 08:38 AM EST (#175973) #
The deadline for offering arbitration is December 1

I believe 12/1 is for free agents.  If I read this correcly teams have until 12/12 to decide on arbitration eligible players.

Regardless, even if the Jays were to trade Towers they're not likely to get anything more than a C prospect.
melondough - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 09:05 AM EST (#175974) #

wouldn't it look almost as attractive if the Jays called the Angels and offered Troy Glaus (prob. less injured on natural grass) for Brandon Wood alone?

I agree,  except I can't imagine the Angles moving him now that he is ready to play everyday.  Wood had an off year last year so they can try it, though I perceive they see him (as far as the power goes) as an Adam Dunn clone within two years.  I still say it would be better to move Glaus for a player with more speed.

I read yesterday on RealGM Baseball an interesting comment, " With Todd Helton enjoying playoff success this season, Halladay now has the title of best player to have never played in the postseason."  Here is link to the entire post - quite a good summary of the team's strengths and needs.  Also found it interesting that the Jays had "one of the finest Pythagorean records for any team who didn’t qualify the playoffs."

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_teamarticle/399/20071022/the_state_of_the_franchise_toronto_blue_jays/

ANationalAcrobat - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 11:13 AM EST (#175976) #
This is from the Globe and Mail:

Blue Jays shut down Wells ROBERT MacLEOD Print Edition 21/09/07 Page S3 Vernon Wells suggested last week that his ailing shoulder could require him to end his 2007 season sooner than later.Turns out he was right.The Toronto Blue Jays said yesterday the 28-year-old all-star and Gold Glove centre fielder will miss the rest of the season and have surgery next week to repair a torn labrum in his left (non-throwing) shoulder and ''assess'' a cyst that has grown in the shoulder. There is a chance the cyst will also be removed.

And then Mylegacy posted here and here that the cysts were not removed. I'm guessing he read that on Scout.com or something, because a quick google search and a globe and mail one revealed nothing. Either way, at least the torn labrum ought to be repaired, even if the cysts are not gone.

Mylegacy - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 11:21 AM EST (#175977) #

I may be the source of Wells' shoulder woes story. I wrote on this site that shortly after he had the surgery that Wells "shoulder" surgery had gone OK BUT there was a second problem which I believed was "cysts" and they couldn't remove these "cysts" because they were too close to something or other. At the time I tried to re-find that article and I couldn't.

However, I've now found it:

Blue Jays | Wells goes under the knife
Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:39:40 -0700

Jordan Bastian, of BlueJays.MLB.com, reports Toronto Blue Jays OF Vernon Wells (shoulder) had his left shoulder operated on Tuesday, Sept. 25, by Dr. James Andrews. Andrews was able to repair Wells' torn labrum but could not remove the cyst that had developed due to its close proximity to a nerve in the shoulder. Wells should be able to swing a bat again in three months time, and he should be fully recuperated by spring training.

http://www.kffl.com/player/5569/MLB

Sorry I couldn't find the story when I first reported it back in September.

TamRa - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 01:39 PM EST (#175981) #
I cannot source this and am far too lazy to look for it but I believe that other stories on that subject implied that he had had the cyst, and the team knew about it, for years and it hadn't been a problem with his play.


ayjackson - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 03:13 PM EST (#175982) #

Jon Heyman at cnnsi believes the Yankees will go hard after Johan Santana - likely dangling a package that includes Hughes or Chamberline.  Pat Gillick opines that it is a sure thing that Johan will be moved this offseason.

It's tough to keep pace when you don't have the blue chippers that the Yanks and Red Sox have in their system, but I think we should inquire about Erik Bedard.  We could offer a package from hitters Adam Lind and Yoherman Chavez and pitchers Shawn Marcum, Jesse Litsch, Casey Janssen, Ricky Romero and David Purcey.  Bedard is a free agent next year (unless he's a Super Two) and the Orioles have indicated they'd listen to offers.  In addition, he shares the more norse spelling of E-R-I-K with my seven month old son.  What would it take to land him?  Could we do it without decimating our system?  Clearly, we'd want to sign him long term (to replace AJ after his opt-out).  How about Litsch, Marcum and Lind?  This is the season to dream about next year's team and one with a rotation of AJ, Bedard, Doc and Dustin makes me drool.

Frank Markotich - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 05:02 PM EST (#175983) #
As best I can tell, Bedard has two more years before free agency. Cots has him at 3 years 171 days after 2006. And "super two's" are an arbitration category, nothing to do with free agency.
Pistol - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 05:02 PM EST (#175984) #
I can't imagine the O's being interested in any trade involving the Jays for Bedard that doesn't involve McGowan and Snider.
ayjackson - Friday, November 09 2007 @ 05:39 PM EST (#175985) #

As best I can tell, Bedard has two more years before free agency. Cots has him at 3 years 171 days after 2006. And "super two's" are an arbitration category, nothing to do with free agency

The Super Two reference was because I noted at Cot's that Bedard has been Arb eligible for the past two years.  Thus if he's not free agent eligible for two more years, then he must be a Super Two (four years of Arb eligibility).  If he's not a Super Two, then this is his third and final kick at Arbitration.  That was poorly worded, I hope the gist is across.

Magpie - Saturday, November 10 2007 @ 12:24 AM EST (#175989) #
Bedard has two more years before free agency. Cots has him at 3 years 171 days after 2006.

In which case, after 2008 Bedard will have 5 years and 171 days of major league service. Leaving him exactly one day short of free agency. ("172 days constitute a full year in the major leagues.") I'd imagine he will be very, very aware of that fact. And possibly not filled with warm and fuzzy feelings about the Orioles as a result.

Bedard first came up, briefly, in April 2002. He spent 2003 on the Orioles' 60 Day DL. He won a spot in the Orioles' starting rotation in spring 2004, but was optioned out twice early in the season (the team said they didn't need a fifth starter) for just long enough to make up for his 2002 stint in the majors....
Wildrose - Saturday, November 10 2007 @ 10:30 AM EST (#175991) #
Maybe we should be charging this guy royalties. Basically if the Jay's decided to move Burnett they'd be peddling 1 year of a reasonable contract and a negotiating window for an extension  or 2 draft choices...what's that worth on the open market to a team like the Met's ? Good question.
Wildrose - Saturday, November 10 2007 @ 10:45 AM EST (#175992) #
Strictly speaking, most every non-pitcher past 28 should theoretically be heading down the slope. That said, it's funny how rose-coloured glasses preclude this same amount of (appropriate) scrutiny from being applied to players on the home side.

Tango's aging chart.
ayjackson - Saturday, November 10 2007 @ 11:59 PM EST (#176009) #

Minor League Update is nearing the bottom of the page, so I thought I'd post an update here.

David Purcey was excellent tonight again in AFL action.  5 IP, 1H, 0ER, 1BB, 8K

For the fall season, he is 22 IP, 13H, 9BB, 25K, 1.23 ERA.

Sergio Santos was 4 for 4 with 2 doubles and Snider had one double in four trips to the plate.

Mylegacy - Sunday, November 11 2007 @ 12:40 AM EST (#176011) #

Purcey's getting me goose-bumpy.

This guy is a stud...if the light's clicked on and he's now a stud with CONTROL - WOW!

We'll have 4 ACE type pitchers; Roy, AJ, McG and Purcey, AND he's a lefty to boot! I really think Purcey is going to be the suprise that by year's end puts us over the top. By years end Jay's fans will be building a shrine to JP!

timpinder - Sunday, November 11 2007 @ 03:44 AM EST (#176012) #
I'm glad Purcey's pitching well, but I don't want to get my hopes up.  He's teased us before.
CeeBee - Sunday, November 11 2007 @ 07:49 AM EST (#176014) #
I'd like to see Purcey have a couple of months like this in AAA next year before I get too goose-bumpy.... but it is nice to see him pitching well in the AFL after the up and down/injury filled season he had. I'm almost as happy with Santos as he is about the furthest along infield prospect and gawd knows how devoid the upper level system is in that area.
greenfrog - Sunday, November 11 2007 @ 09:41 AM EST (#176015) #
I wonder if other teams are noticing Purcey. Would packaging him in a trade be selling high or low? I guess time will tell. He's still only 25, so he could still be coming into his own.

I would like to see the organization hang on to him, but if Purcey could be the centerpiece of a great trade to strengthen the big club now, JP might have to go for it.

jgadfly - Sunday, November 11 2007 @ 01:03 PM EST (#176018) #
RE: Tavis Snider...Interesting YouTube video of Travis Snider in Arizona and his High School career footage that Tao of Stieb has a link to at  http://taoofstieb.blogspot.com/
greenfrog - Sunday, November 11 2007 @ 02:57 PM EST (#176020) #
Lee Gronk has pitched well in 3 AFL games so far: 4.1 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 6 K, 0.92 WHIP.

He can't do much else to prove himself in the minors. I wonder whether he'll get a shot in 2008. He seems like a good 11th or 12th pitcher to carry.



TimberLee - Sunday, November 11 2007 @ 03:31 PM EST (#176022) #
The Gronk is listed among the Minor League free agents. He could well get a chance in the Bigs next year, but it looks like it won't be in Toronto.
melondough - Sunday, November 11 2007 @ 03:43 PM EST (#176023) #

Purcey's getting me goose-bumpy.

I agree so it was a good thing then that JP moved Zack Jackson and not Pursey in the Overbay deal.  I found it interesting reading the post from two years ago, just after Overbay was aquired - http://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?story=20051207190006431

 

 

jgadfly - Sunday, November 11 2007 @ 05:04 PM EST (#176025) #
Travis Snider again... An interesting 9 1/2 minute audio interview with the kid courtesy of the guys at projectprospect ...  http://projectprospectbeta.com/podcast/4
HollywoodHartman - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 02:25 PM EST (#176049) #

Congrats to Dustin Pedroia and Ryan Braun (who won by only 2 points over Tulowitzki), your 2007 Rookies of the Year.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7438664

Also, add Dayn Perry to the list of people who believes the Jays must aquire Tejada, and the O's must trade him to us.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7431662

Frank Markotich - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 02:44 PM EST (#176052) #

Ricky Romero and salary relief for Tejada? Sign me up.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this doesn't strike me as realistic from the O's standpoint. Even a Blue Jay fanboy trade proposal would include more. You know, like we'll throw in Jordan deJong and John-Ford Griffin.

 

greenfrog - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 03:22 PM EST (#176053) #
Perry's proposal is a dream trade from the Jays' point of view. I can't see it happening, though. The shortstop market is extremely thin right now (IMO this is the main reason JP moved quickly to sign McDonald during the season), and Tejada could be marketed as a SS or 3B. If he gets traded, he'll command more than Ricky Romero-plus-lesser-prospects.

That said, Tejada would be a huge boost to the team. Not only would he strengthen the Jays' lineup, but he could also sub for Glaus at 3B. JMac could start some games at SS, play defense at three positions in the late innings, occasionally spell Hill at 2B, and pinch run. The infield and bench would be deeper and more balanced, offensively and defensively.
Chuck - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 03:50 PM EST (#176058) #

Maybe I'm wrong, but this doesn't strike me as realistic from the O's standpoint.

I entirely concur. Dayn Perry is usually a much more sensible chap than that. The same organization that reckons that Baez and Walker deserve $10M a year between them can't be too fussed about making it a priority to unload Tejada and his $13M for salary relief alone. If they move him, it will be to get something useful, not bric-a-brac (the usual ingredient, usually served up in quantity, in fanboy trade recipes).

I mentioned this in another thread, but the Tejada/Young divide is a hard one to fathom. These days, Tejada is being spoken of in a very negative light (his defense is shot, his offense is in the crapper). Michael Young, however, remains universally beloved with nary a criticism levelled his way. The two of them are the same age and had the same OPS+ last year, that in a Tejada down year and a typical Young year. Why are they seemingly subjected to different levels of scrutiny, particularly when the latter is making more money?

 

ayjackson - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 05:27 PM EST (#176066) #
Great Day for the Jays in Arizona.
Seamus - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 06:33 PM EST (#176067) #
I really think the Jays should try to make some impact move this offseason.  Getting Tejada would be a nice move I think.

In fact, if the Jays could acquire him somehow, perhaps it would make sense to move Thomas or Glaus.  If you traded Thomas, Glaus could benefit from spending some time in the DH role (or at least having that option).  Although I suppose this idea would only make sense if you got something worthwhile for Thomas.

Then, the Jays could alternate between - SS: McDonald (or a ptbnl), 3B: Tejada, DH: Glaus and SS: Tejada, 3B: Glaus, DH: Stairs.  It would be nice to have some flexibility.

That being said, having a healthy lineup with Wells, Glaus, Rios, Thomas, and Tejada could be pretty powerful.

Mylegacy - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 06:54 PM EST (#176068) #

I think, JP thinks, had half the team not needed four surgeries each in 07 that they would have contended.

I think, JP thinks, that in 08 - God willin' an' the river don't rise - we're going to be a contender. I go along with JP on this one. This IS his team. He REALLY THINKS that it can win - so do I. Tejada would be nice - BUT JMac gives our ground ball pitchers out after out after out. JP, and I both think that: Stairs/ Johnson will be an improvement in LF, that Wells post surgery will be better this year, that Rios will grow to that extra level, that Glaus will - at least - be a bit healthier, that Hill will climb the next mountain in his career path, that Overbay post surgery will be ol' Mr. Doubles again, that Zaun with two hands instead of one being broken will be an improvement, that Frank Thomas KNOWING he is healthy and KNOWING he's going to staat playing in April instead of July will revert to being a force to be reckoned with. EVERYONE of these EXPECTATIONS is not unreasonable. If EVEN HALF of them come to pass this is a contending team.

By the way, did I mention we've a few guys that pitch as well?

greenfrog - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 07:42 PM EST (#176069) #
I think Perry gets it wrong on another level, too. He says that the Jays don't have much young talent to trade. Is he forgetting about Lind, Janssen, Litsch, Wolfe, Marcum, Accardo? Everybody wants young pitching, and the Jays have a fair bit of it.

JMac gives our ground ball pitchers out after out after out

He also gives their ground ball (and fly ball) pitchers out after out. That's the problem.


ANationalAcrobat - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 07:59 PM EST (#176071) #
I've said it before, but Miguel Tejada on a two year/26 million dollar deal is well below market value. I'll take that any day, and I'll even pay extra for it (prospects or salary relief). It's a low risk deal since it's only two years, and the player has just had an off year, which means I would be buying low. Additionally, when J-Mac is my SS, Tejada becomes that much more valuable to me.

Gotta pull the trigger on this one!

timpinder - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 08:28 PM EST (#176074) #

Count me in as somebody who would love to see Tejada here.  He'd likely only be the Jays' SS for a single season in 2008.  If Glaus has a healthy season this year he probably won't pick up his player option for 2009, opting instead to become a free agent.  Tejada could then shift over to 3B for 2009.  The Jays would have a hole as SS in 2009 (I'm referring to McDonald as a "hole").  But with Lind ready to go in LF in 2009, Wells locked up through 2011 in CF, and Snider possibly ready to start 2009 in RF, Rios could become very valuable trade-bait to bring in a SS, if he's not locked up this off-season. 

Tejada would just give the Jays some insurance, not just for 2009, but also for 2008 if Glaus misses time to injury again.  Tejada could shift over for a few games, or even a few weeks or months, with McDonald filling in at SS.  And $13 million per season is not unreasonable.

(For the record, I love Rios and am not advocating that he be traded, I just have a feeling that, with Wells' enormous contract locking him in as the Jays' CF for many years and with Lind and Snider on the way, J.P. may decide to trade Rios next year instead of spend the money on him.  As a young 5-tool player who could be peddled as a CF, he would net a very good return)

ayjackson - Monday, November 12 2007 @ 09:44 PM EST (#176078) #

If Glaus has a healthy season this year he probably won't pick up his player option for 2009, opting instead to become a free agent.

Wow, if Glaus, Burnett, Downs and Johnson leave after next year, 2009 would be the draft of the century - those could be seven compensatory picks in the first fifty.

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