Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - 5 June: Some Cautious Optimism? Oh, Why Not!

5 June: Some Cautious Optimism? Oh, Why Not!

It was a little more than three weeks ago when the Jays hit rock bottom, losing their ninth game in a row as Roy Halladay was shelled for the second time in a week. The very next day Doc was having his appendix removed. Things looked... grim?

Since then, Toronto has posted a pretty nifty 14-8 record. That's .636 ball, and that's generally good enough to take a team as far as it needs to go. If the Jays maintain it, they'll end up winning 93 games. Nine game losing streak and all. Obviously that's going to be hard to do.

But just as obviously, they're still not firing on all cylinders. Halladay himself is back, apparently as good as ever, but he only appeared in one of those 22 games. Gregg Zaun and Reed Johnson missed every one of those games, and Troy Glaus may very well be day-to-day for the rest of the season. They're getting by anyway.

The loss of Lyle Overbay for the next month or so essentially means that both Matt Stairs and Adam Lind can be expected to play every day. Stairs, of course, has been en fuego lately and Lind had a nice breakout day on Sunday. Frank Thomas and Vernon Wells, for the most part, have yet to be heard from. Thomas is looking extremely frustrated, partially because he's actually starting to hit the ball well. So far, they're hooking foul, or finding fielder's gloves. That worm will turn.

This thing ain't over yet.

Posted by Magpie on Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 05:08 AM EDT.

5 June: Some Cautious Optimism? Oh, Why Not! | 21 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

rtcaino - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 06:51 AM EDT (#169254) #

Hopefully this year we will be in a position to blow the dust off the Lyle Lovett Rally Monkey and grow some sick Fu-Manchu's in support of a Blue Jays play-off push!

clark - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 08:45 AM EDT (#169257) #

Not to mention it looks like the bullpen may be getting a boost with Brandon League on the comeback trail.

MatO - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 09:35 AM EDT (#169259) #

Has anybody heard about plans to move Thigpen off the catching position. I caught the last part of a call during the post-game on Sunday and Wilner said that he (I assume Thigpen) was considered too athletic to stay at catcher and that as a result the Jays had no catching prospects at this time. It sopunded like he'd been told that and not as opinion. I know they have been fiddling around with Thigpen at Syracuse but this is news to me. I can't see him playing short so I see his hitting profile fitting 2 positions, 2B and C, and there's someone already filling the 2B position pretty well. Maybe they see him as some sort of super-utility player.

Mike Green - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#169260) #

There was some suggestion that the club might attempt to work an early Borders-Bench-Sprague type conversion to third base for Thigpen. It works for me.

Pistol - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 09:52 AM EDT (#169261) #

There was a blurp on Thigpen at the Jays site a few days ago about that.

"He's so athletic that we may be better off putting him somewhere else to take advantage of his ability to run," Toronto general manager J.P. Ricciardi said on Friday. "He's got really good hands and he's a good hitter. He may be better suited to play second base, or better suited to play third base".

Ryan Day - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 10:02 AM EDT (#169262) #

"Too athletic to catch" seems kind of silly, particularly considering the Jays don't have any other real catching prospects. And second base is kind of occupied right now - if they're considering moving Hill back to short, they should do it now and sort out their second base options. (For that matter, they should figure out what they want to do with Thigpen, too)

Third base would be an intriguing possibility, but isn't his primary weakness as a catcher arm strength?

Mike Green - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#169263) #

Thigpen's arm is not great, but it is OK and enough (I am guessing) for a third baseman. More importantly, he has the reflexes and athleticism to field the position very well, and the lesser defensive demands would allow him to focus on his hitting. A career like this one might be a reasonable target.

PeterG - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#169265) #

Could be JP is thinking about trading Glaus!

Mike Green - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#169267) #

Glaus' health might, at some point soon, necessitate a position move.

AWeb - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#169268) #

Toronto has even managed to reach second place again, with the typically bizarre Orioles (in the last month they have a 4 game win streak, a 6 game win streak where they won by 3 or more runs every time, a 5 game losing streak, and the current 4 game losing streak) dropping back again. Toronto on a 14-8 streak stretch since the 9 game losing streak, are the anti-Orioles : no consecutive losses, no more than 3 consecutive wins. It's frustrating that they can't string together a long winning streak, but in the end, they are picking up games.

Toronto's pitching has been a pleasant surprise (to me) this year; it's only weakness is that it gives up too many homers. Burnett's never given up close to this many HRs before, so hopefully he'll return to normal in that area. Teams only reach base at a .313 clip against the staff. The relievers, even with League MIA and Ryan terrible/injured, have a cumulative line of .219/.293/.339. For all the grief that Gibbons gets here sometimes for his bullpen usage, it's hard to argue with the results so far. Janssen, Accardo, Tallet and Downs : not the four man combo we figured in April, but they've been incredible so far.

timpinder - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#169269) #

Hill has a very good arm and quick reflexes, but he might not have the range to play SS. He's showed that he has some power this year and could be a good 3B, with Thigpen possibly taking over at 2B.

How did Thigpen perform defensively during his AAA games at 2B?

Any Glaus trade would have to bring in a SS or maybe a 3B if the Jays thought Hill could play SS, because Eckstein is the only decent SS scheduled to become a free agent this year.

PaulE-O - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 11:32 AM EDT (#169273) #

you don't develop thigpen to take over 3rd base for glaus, who knows if the guy will ever make it to the big leagues?

you designate thigpen to the position that gives him the best chance of becoming a major leaguer, and if that's third you worry about moving people once he's shown good reason to think he can play in the major leagues

R Billie - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 11:35 AM EDT (#169274) #

Seems to me like a bit of a waste to move Hill off of 2nd now that he's playing it so well. That seems to be his ideal position for now. Though if Thigpen could play it comparably then I suppose Hill has the better arm for third. I'm a bit nervous about throwing a guy into a middle infield position at the big league level when he really hasn't played it much at all in recent years.

Third would seem like an easier adjustment for Thigpen in the short term but I think they'll move him all over as needed. Occasional starter at catcher, 2B, 3B, 1B, maybe even LF in place of Lind sometimes. And a backup at all of those positions. It's always nice to have a third catcher who can do other things.

Of course, if Hill can move to short and Thigpen can handle 2B then you might be best off offensively in the long run but you might take a hit defensively at both middle infield positions. You really do need a young catcher with Zaun, Phillips, and Fasano really not figuring to more than another year or two after this and Thigpen is ready to get some experience in that capacity. Thigpen is a good hitter for a catcher...not so sure he's such a good hitter for other positions besides 2B where he's not as good as Hill.

Kieran - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#169279) #

It would seem to me that Hill's combo of offence and defence are above-average for a 2B. At third, his defensive abilities might not be as noticeable, and his bat would seem to be average compared to bigger, stronger guys with more power.

Has there been anything to suggest Thigpen can hit as an average player at any position besides catcher? The thought of him at 3B sounds wrong to me. His minor league career line is .279 .374 .433. He seems to have good plate discipline but below average power and little-to-no "flash" in any other capacity.

westcoast dude - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#169292) #

I second the motion: Thigpen can't hit well enough to be anything but a catcher, unless he wants to try pitching.

Ryan Day - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#169294) #

He'd never be a star at third - I'm not sure he'd be one at catcher, either - but Thigpen can probably hit well enough to be an average or slightly-above third baseman. Somewhere around Casey Blake, perhaps.

Mike Green - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#169296) #

I haven't seen official confirmation of Thigpen's promotion, but he's off the Syracuse roster with Schneider, Kratz and Zaun as the team's catchers (for the time being).

Gerry - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#169298) #

Schneider was in AA at the weekend, his promotion shadows Thigpen's I assume.

Thigpen has had a very good bat, albeit without much power, and he could play at second base in the majors. Third base would be a stretch. Remember his boyhood idol was Craig Biggio and so far he looks a lot like him.

Kieran - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#169301) #

Biggio came up with limited power, mind you it was a different era. He did, however, have 20-25 SB speed and blossomed into a 15-20 HR/30-40 SB player. I know that power tends to develop, but does Thigpen have legs?

Avail - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#169303) #

"Any Glaus trade would have to bring in a SS or maybe a 3B if the Jays thought Hill could play SS, because Eckstein is the only decent SS scheduled to become a free agent this year."

Did I miss the part where Eckstein became a decent Shortstop? or is everyone still looking at him through rose coloured glasses due to his MVP award?

ChicagoJaysFan - Tuesday, June 05 2007 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#169321) #

Did I miss the part where Eckstein became a decent Shortstop? or is everyone still looking at him through rose coloured glasses due to his MVP award?

I completely agree that he has no power and am not trying to say that Eckstein is elite, but a .350 OBP (career and last season) is a dramatic improvement over anyone the Jays currently have playing SS and puts him in the middle of ML SS's. As to his defense, I'm not going to make a claim, but I've heard mixed reviews (fans of Eckstein say he's solid, others say he's garbage, which is what you would expect for a player that's rather polarizing). I would say that if Eckstein's defense is above average, his OBP puts him in a category where he is a slightly below average SS overall (defense plus offense) - something that's a drastic improvement over what we have now and what I would call a decent shortstop. If his defense isn't good, then he probably doesn't bring enough and I agree with you.

5 June: Some Cautious Optimism? Oh, Why Not! | 21 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.