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While most organizations will take the 'best player available' in the draft, it can't hurt to see what are the positions of need down the line.


Pitching:
Halladay and Burnett seem to be locked in for the forseeable future. The rest of the rotation is a toss up and it doesn't look like there's a #1 or #2 starter types in the minors at the moment.

In the bullpen it's BJ Ryan (assuming he recovers) and the kids. Like starters, relivers are always needed. These pitchers generally are failed starters and not drafted as relievers. With the exception of Street and Cordero there aren't a lot of success stories with fast track relievers so far.

Draft Need?: Always


Catcher:
Zaun and Phillips are manning the job in Toronto. Neither would appear to be in the Jays plans a few years down the line. Thigpen is currently a solid prospect in Syracuse and it's expected that he'll work his way into the lineup in 2008. But catching prospects are always hard to get a feel for - many look promising only to fizzle out (for instance, Quiroz). At this point no other catcher in the Jays system looks to be a good bet to make the majors, although the Jays put Robinzon Diaz on the 40 man roster this offseason.

Draft Need?: Moderate


First Base:
The Jays signed Lyle Overbay for 4 years this offseason. That will take him the 2010 season, assuming he isn't traded. That will take him through his age 33 season which is likely the time the Jays will be looking for a replacement (if not sooner). First base is a good spot to move OFs that can't make it in the OF or 3B that grow too old for the position so that's probably more likely than a 1B in the minors filling the spot. In the minors Chip Cannon is the Jays best prospect at 1B, but doesn't look to be any more than a role player.

Draft Needs?: A need exists for a 1B in a few years, but it's more likely to come from somewhere else than a drafted 1B (who generally don't work out that well in the draft).


Second Base:
Barring a switch back to SS the Jays should be set at second base with Aaron Hill for the forseeable future.

Draft Needs? Not really, especially in light of how cheaply 2b free agents were this past year.

Shortstop:
Unless Aaron Hill shifts back to SS there's a big need there. Olmedo might be a stop gap solution, but there's not much in the minors to rely on.

Draft Needs?: Yes, and then some.


Third Base:
I'll be surprised if Troy Glaus is still the 3B for the Jays in a few years. I imagine that injuries will force him to shift to DH or 1B eventually. The pickings are pretty slim in the minors behind him. Balbino Fuenmayor is promising but he's just 17 (in the draft he'd likely be eligible next year) and still hasn't played in rookie ball yet so you can't count on him right now.

Draft Needs?: You bet


Outfield:
This is more like it. Wells and Rios should remain in the OF for at least the next 5 years, Lind is up now and should eventually hit, and Snider will probably be ready in 2010 at the latest. By far and away the organization's strength right now.

Draft Needs?: No


Summary:
Big needs:
Pitching
Shortstop
Third Base

Modest needs:
Catcher
First Base

Little to no needs:
Outfield
Second Base


So how does this look in comparison to what's available?

There's about 7 HS pitchers in the 10-20 range of most draft lists out there which would be right in with where the Jays pick in the first two rounds. However, since Ricciardi took over as GM they've been allergic to HS pitching. There doesn't appear to be any college pitchers worth taking in the first round (at least starting pitchers).

At the top of the draft there's several HS third basemen that the Jays could consider with their first two picks. Baseball America projected Matt Dominguez for the Jays at #16 in their latest mock draft. Kevin Ahrens and Will Middlebrooks would be other possibilities. In the sandwich round Matt Mangini and Todd Frazier are college players that'd likely be available.

The pickings are slim at SS. In the BA mock draft they had the Jays taking Peter Kozma, a HS SS from Oklahoma, at pick 21.

There's several possibilities with catchers among the college players - Canham, Arencibia, and Donaldson. I originally thought the first two would be possibilities at #21, but they appear to be sandwich picks now if BA's rankings are reflective of where they might go. Devin Mesoraco is a possibility if the Jays wanted to take a chance on a HS catcher in the first round.

Beau Mills and Matt Laporta are two college hitters that could be possibilites for 1B. Mills is currently a 3B, but it sounds like he'll have to move across the diamond. Both have big power.

Overall:
It'd be nice if there were more SSs available in the draft, but overall the Jays needs and the draft seem to line up fairly well. The big question is whether the Jays would take a HS pitcher with one of their seven top 100 picks.  Apparently, Ricciardi said on the FAN that he had no plans to.

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The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 09:51 AM EDT (#168521) #
It would be prudent for the team to draft a centerfielder.  Five years from now, Wells is likely to be a corner outfielder, Rios is likely to a corner outfielder, or (shiver) gone via free agency.  Snider and Lind are likely to be corner outfielders or 1B/DH.  There are no centerfield prospects in the minors, with the very remote exception of Yuber Rodriguez.



ChicagoJaysFan - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#168526) #
I hope we don't draft a shortstop this year.  Primarily because I don't want to read another Griffen article about how we're still drafting shortstops.
Ryan Day - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#168527) #

Is Sergio Santos a mystery piece of the puzzle? If his resurrected offence holds up, he could handle third base; if his defence is good enough, he could play shortstop for a few years.

Or he could get wiped out at AAA yet again. I wonder how optimistic the Jays are.

ayjackson - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 10:22 AM EDT (#168529) #

Who looks good as a high school centerfielder then? 

Both Lind and Snider could end up at 1B, though they don't have ideal height.

ayjackson - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#168530) #
At this point, 23-year old Josh Kreuzer and his 1044 OPS looks to be a better 1B prospect than Chip Cannon.
MatO - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#168533) #

I would say that Santos has at least put himself back in the SS picture seeing that he hit his 11th HR yesterday and has shown better plate discipline.  He certainly has the arm to play short. I think it less likely that his bat will carry him enough at third even though he might be a better fielder there. 

Cannon is a non-prospect at this point and he's 25.

I think Jeroloman should get some consideration at catcher.  He's been a pleasant surprise at Dunedin at least with his OBP and is supposedly excellent defensively.  He's still only 22.  He would be a natural complement to Thigpen as he's a left-handed hitter.

 

CaramonLS - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#168536) #
Catchers are always good prospects, especially those who can bat left handed - which there is a severe drought of in MLB today.

Also, 1B prospects... most defensive failures can be moved from the OF, or any other position for that matter to 1B.  No need to actually draft a 1B unless he really has the best bat available at that point in time.

In terms of Priority for me at least?  You have to look at starting pitching... very very hard.  But money really can't be an issue, with the way the market is shaping up, even with all the restrictions Boras tries to railroad GMs with, it is better value than it is paying a mediocre FA to play for you for a stupid amount of money.

John Northey - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#168540) #
My way of thinking is to look for the best possible hitter who can handle shortstop, centerfield or catcher. Always look for an athlete if you can afford him as they can be shifted around the diamond if needed. Someone who can only play first base/left field must be a very, very good hitter to be drafted early imo. As points of reference, McGwire was a third baseman when he first arrived in the majors, George Bell was able to play third at times, and I'm certain I could come up with more if I thought about it a bit.

As to pitchers, they tend to be a crapshoot and should be mixed in wherever possible but don't forget the tinstaapp rule (there is no such thing as a pitching prospect). ALso don't forget the all-time best Jay pitcher was Dave Stieb who was an outfielder when drafted. Raw arm strength and an ability to learn are vital for pitchers. If you are going to draft a high schooler you better be very, very certain his arm is A) healthy and B) going to get stronger and C) that he has enough brains (baseball wise) to figure out how to adapt when he hits a level where they pound him.
BigTimeRoyalsFan - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#168541) #
The big question is whether the Jays would take a HS pitcher with one of their seven top 100 picks.

jp answered this on the last "wednesdays with jp" on the fan. the caller asked, if in light of the team's recent draft history and its multitude of first round picks, would the team consider drafting a high school pitcher. to which jp answered quickly and emphatically - NO!
Ryan Day - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#168547) #

I'll give you Kazmir, but Cole Hamels? You'd really draft a high school pitcher who already had arm problems? Who, after a nice debut season pitched in all of 10 games in 2004-2005?

It's worked out quite well so far, but do you really want to take that kind of risk with your first-round pick?

BigTimeRoyalsFan - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 01:47 PM EDT (#168548) #
maybe not that year. but yes, when the team has multiple top 50 picks, id like them to at least try out one high school pitcher. what i dont like is hearing a gm come straight out and say we will not draft any high school pitcher or scott boras agent. obviously its easy to look back and ridicule adams when good pitchers went after him - thats not what im trying to do. i was just using that year as an example of what can happen when the gm approaches drafts with such strict rules
Marc Hulet - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#168552) #
According to InsidetheDome, the Jays have just signed draft-and-follow 1B Kevin Denis-Fortier.

Pistol - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#168556) #
Here's a brief article on it.

This saves the Jays drafting him for the 3rd straight year.

Newton - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#168558) #

I'm dissapointed JP is still reluctant to draft High School Arms with relatively high draft picks. 

If you want upside you need to take risks.  Also the potential trade value of high school draft prospects needs to be considered.  If a young high school kid tears up Low A ball you've got yourself a great chip to utilize in dealing  for a big league piece during a, dare we dream, pennant race. 

Dismissing an entire category of the available talent pool on pure principle is incompetent and lazy.

 

 

Newton - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#168560) #

Ryan Day:

Re-consider your post by asking yourself this question: What could Cole Hamels yield in a trade right now?

This question assumes the Phillies would consider trading him.  As one of the many teams that still values High School talent, creating the market for trading high school draftees, they probably consider him untouchable.

 

Paul D - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#168561) #

Can anyone point to a study that shows that high school pitchers have higher upsides than college pitchers?  it seems to be taken as an article of faith around here, and I was wondering what the numbers were to back that up.

BP doesn't show an advantage to high schoolers , although they don't show that college pitchers are better.

You can read summaries:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/wtmiller/positions/firstround.htm
http://jinaz-reds.blogspot.com/2006/04/drafting-strategies-high-school-vs.html

 

CaramonLS - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#168562) #

Dismissing an entire category of the available talent pool on pure principle is incompetent and lazy.


I'd actually use a few more negative words to describe what I think of this, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be seeing much more time on this site.  It boggles my mind how he can so easily just shrug off so many players, especially when your two top pitchers were HS picks, and in 5 years of drafting, we don't have another Halladay in the system, or heck, even another Burnett (unless we get really lucky).  A lot of the stud potential pitchers went the HS route, and I think you really need to look hard at that facet of the draft.
parrot11 - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#168563) #

I really don't think that need should be considered much, especially for the early rounds. It opens the door to over-drafting and settling for inferior talent. Furthermore, the need that you have now may no longer exist when that prospect is ready. And it's always easier to acquire a league average player at the position of need than an impact player you might have drafted. I've always believed that in the 1st round you should swing for the fences.

From what Ricciardi has stated, he won't pick a prep arm or a Boras client in the 1st round. I think that really narrows the field. The possible exception to this "rule" is maybe Michael Main who has pretty good upside as either a pitcher or centerfielder, so he has a solid backup plan in case pitching isn't in the cards.

Some of the guys that I like available when we pick in the 1st round are Beavan, Dominguez, Main, Mesoraco, Ahrens, and Burgess.

CeeBee - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#168570) #

"Dismissing an entire category of the available talent pool on pure principle is incompetent and lazy."

Maybe JP is still in the "it's a sore back" mode and he really means the Jays are looking at drafting several high school pitchers and at least one Boras client.

John Northey - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#168578) #
Good point CeeBee.  The whole thing about 'I won't draft a HS pitcher' and 'I won't draft a Boras client' reminds me of an old tv show (can't remember which one) where one of the characters said that if they had super speed they'd call themselves something that did not imply speed at all (say, power fist) so no one knew immediately what they could do so they'd have an edge.

JP knows there are a lot of HS pitchers out there.  He also knows a few teams have picks early and late in the first round just like the Jays do.  If those teams think the Jays won't even look at those pitchers they might let a high end one sit for a few extra picks and give the Jays a shot at a high quality one.  Same with Boras clients.  If I was Rogers I'd be telling JP to take the best and let us worry about the bill.  The potential savings from getting a high end player are far more than the extra cost Boras puts on them.

Ryan Day - Friday, May 25 2007 @ 11:32 PM EDT (#168580) #
Re-consider your post by asking yourself this question: What could Cole Hamels yield in a trade right now?

A lot, obviously. What would he have yielded in 2004 or 2005, when he was spending most of his time on the DL? Would you have even traded Russ Adams for him?

Hamels worked out pretty well. But he was an extreme risk for a team to take. Even Kazmir scared off plenty of teams - there are reasons why these guys ended up in the bottom half of the first round when they're probably among the top five in terms of talent.

And honestly, we wouldn't even be having this conversation if Ricciardi had taken another college hitter - like Nick Swisher or Mark Teahen. Or if Adams hadn't spectacularly flamed out - even BA said he projected as a solid middle infielder and leadoff hitter.
CaramonLS - Saturday, May 26 2007 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#168584) #
Good point CeeBee.  The whole thing about 'I won't draft a HS pitcher' and 'I won't draft a Boras client' reminds me of an old tv show (can't remember which one) where one of the characters said that if they had super speed they'd call themselves something that did not imply speed at all (say, power fist) so no one knew immediately what they could do so they'd have an edge.

JP knows there are a lot of HS pitchers out there.  He also knows a few teams have picks early and late in the first round just like the Jays do.  If those teams think the Jays won't even look at those pitchers they might let a high end one sit for a few extra picks and give the Jays a shot at a high quality one.  Same with Boras clients.  If I was Rogers I'd be telling JP to take the best and let us worry about the bill.  The potential savings from getting a high end player are far more than the extra cost Boras puts on them.


So it is all an elaborate ploy now?  Oh please.

I guess JP has been setting this up for the last 5 years as well then?
CeeBee - Saturday, May 26 2007 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#168587) #

"So it is all an elaborate ploy now?  Oh please.

I guess JP has been setting this up for the last 5 years as well then?"

I imagine it will all be clear in a few weeks, no?

John Northey - Saturday, May 26 2007 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#168594) #
So it is all an elaborate ploy now?  Oh please.

I guess JP has been setting this up for the last 5 years as well then?


Well, last year he took a high schooler with the first pick he had rather than a college player after everyone kept saying until just before the draft that there was no chance of him doing that.  This year he has a ton of picks that land in the area where solid prospects reside.  This year will determine a lot and JP knows it.  At the ML level injuries have hurt but his choices (SS, CA, etc.) also have.  I doubt he'll chase a Boras client or HS pitcher but if the situation is right why wouldn't he?  We'll see soon enough.

As to his drafting, the minors look weak to many, but JP picks Janssen and Marcum are looking darn good while Litch and Vermilyea both have done good things in their first peaks at the majors.  Aaron Hill has been solid, Adam Lind we all have high hopes for despite his poor showing this season, and Ryan Roberts is getting a small kick at the can this year.   So in his first 5 drafts JP has produced one everyday hitter, a guy who looks like a solid starter, another one who is working nicely as a setup man, and a potential everydayer in Lind as well as getting a full productive season from Adams before he fell apart.  Litch might be a keeper too.  So 3 guys who are solid that any team would like to have (Hill, Marcum, Janssen), 2 who might be before years end (Litch, Lind) and a few bench guys (Roberts, Vermilyea, Adams).  A total of 8 guys in the majors with the Jays plus David Bush (traded and had 3 seasons as a solid starter before flopping this season) and Zach Jackson.  So 10 guys reaching the majors over 5 drafts - not bad given more are coming.

FYI: last I checked teams average 5 new guys reaching the majors a season so ultimately the Jays should get 25 players reaching from JP's first 5 drafts.  Many will get cups of coffee as they become AAAA players but the big question is how many will be like Hill, Marcum, and Janssen.
MatO - Saturday, May 26 2007 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#168603) #
By dropping Pulaski and adding a team in the GCL the Jays have signalled that are no longer providing summer employment to 30th round college seniors.  College players simply don't belong in the GCL and they need to fill the roster from somewhere including 10-15 teenage pitchers.   To that end they've hired the Latin American scouting director away from the Braves to give themselves a bigger presence there and they've been more active in high profile signings.  They've also been active with some Aussie signings.  I suspect that maybe they won't go after highschool pitchers in the early rounds of the draft but instead of college pitchers in the middle rounds they'll draft highschoolders who have committed to colleges and follow them in the summer leagues and try to entice the ones they like to sign by the new August deadline. 
Gerry - Saturday, May 26 2007 @ 05:02 PM EDT (#168606) #
Draft speculation from Bob Elliott
GeoffAtMac - Sunday, May 27 2007 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#168628) #

Re: Bob Elliott's predictions

As long as Julio Borbon is not Pedro Borbon in disguise, I am okay with drafting him.

ChicagoJaysFan - Sunday, May 27 2007 @ 07:42 PM EDT (#168632) #
Northey, I agree with you, but you've left at least two people out (I have JP as drafting and signing 12 guys who made the majors).

I have the following (and where I currently think they stand as a major leaguer - i.e. not my projection for them, just what have they done now):
Solid starters: Dave Bush, Aaron Hill, Tom Mastny
Roster Fillers: Shaun Marcum (perhaps too pessimistic of me), Ryan Roberts, Adam Lind, Casey Janssen
Cups of coffee: Russ Adams, Adam Peterson, Jamie Vermilyea, Zach Jackson, Jesse Litsch

For three years of drafting (only a few drafted players in total from the 2005 draft have made the majors), I think that places him at least middle of the order, regardless of what the reputation of the minors is.  I'm not saying JP's a god at drafting, but I do think he is far from the worst.

And if you follow baseball cube's simple "draft score" ranking (which is admittedly incomplete, but gives each team a point each season that a drafted player spends in the majors), the Jays are 10th in 2002, tied for second in 2003, and tied for first in 2004.
ChicagoJaysFan - Sunday, May 27 2007 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#168633) #
I should probably have written "Solid Contributors" instead of "Solid Starters" - I basically mean anyone that is solid as one of your starting 9 hitters, a top-3 starter, or one of your late-inning relievers.  Anyone else who still stays on the major league roster is what I meant by "Roster Filler".
ayjackson - Sunday, May 27 2007 @ 11:37 PM EDT (#168635) #
Looking at Mastny's and Janssen's season and career lines, I don't know how you can say that one is a solid contributor and the other isn't.
ChicagoJaysFan - Monday, May 28 2007 @ 02:58 AM EDT (#168640) #
Looking at Mastny's and Janssen's season and career lines, I don't know how you can say that one is a solid contributor and the other isn't.

It's just my opinion, but I'd say both pitchers are borderline between the two categories, so if I had a category in the middle I'd slot them there.  Without creating too many categories, I thought it best to split the two.  As to why I bumped Mastny up and not the reverse - all K rate.  I don't like relievers that can't get K's.
R Billie - Monday, May 28 2007 @ 02:29 PM EDT (#168669) #

Shaun Marcum to me looks at least as good as David Bush and he looks a bit harder to hit.  I think his long term ERA will be lower.

Janssen's probably at his best in the position he's in now, as a setup guy and righty killer.  Unless he can find that K-rate he had this spring again it will be hard for him to do more than that.  But his minor league K-rate was around 8/9ip so I think it's a matter of finding mechanics.

Mastny's always had solid numbers and is a big tall pitcher.  For whatever reason the Jays decided he was fungible.  Perhaps because he was an 11th round pick who wasn't a scout's darling.  This organization in general though hasn't had much luck keeping pitchers who have gone on to do a lot more for other teams (Loaiza, Escobar, Carpenter, Gaudin, Mastny, etc).

ayjackson - Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#168783) #

I'm not sure I see SS as a draft need.  It is a need on the big club, no question, but the draft isn't going to help for maybe five years.  The Jays have to address SS with a trade or FA (or Hill), because the draft has left a void there (surprisingly, with all the attention over the years).  If we're addressing needs in the draft with high school hitters, then these needs have to be made with foresight to 3, 4, 5 years down the road.

So for high school hitters, 3B looks like an attractive selection in the first round, given the quality of bats that project to be available.

If we believe JP, and we aren't drafting HS pitchers, then I would expect our first seven picks to be heavy in college pitchers and HS hitters.  I could see us coming away with Joe Savery, LHP, Rice and Matt Dominguez, 3B, Chatsworth HS, in the first round.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted two HS pitchers in the first either - say a Madison Bumgarner and a Michael Main.

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