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Lyle Overbay was 1-18 against Odalis Perez when he faced him in the second inning last night.



But even Lyle could hit Perez last night. As for A.J. Burnett, he was more or less unhittable, although he had barely a nodding acquaintance with the strike zone in the early innings. I remember looking up and seeing that it was 9:00 and we were still in the fourth inning....

Troy Glaus looked simply enormous to me last season. He is one Big Fellow. This year... not so much. Why? He's stepping into the batter's box after Frank Thomas.

The Yankees finally got a good performance out of a starting pitcher - Carl Pavano?! - and seeing as how they were up against Sidney Ponson, victory followed, much as night follows the day.

Those fabulous Phillies have now lost six of seven, although Ryan Howard and Chase Utley both hit their first homers of the season. The Giants also sport a 1-6 record. Matt Cain took a no-hitter into the seventh, but a Greene double, a sac bunt, and a sac fly produced the game's only run.

Tonight it's the Redemption Quest, starring Zack Greinke and Josh Towers. Of whom much was expected last season. Of whom nothing was delivered.

Nothing is better
Nothing is best
Take care of your health
And get plenty of rest

And keep an eye out for the skinny lefty throwing out the first pitch. Dude's got some game.

10 April 2007: Redemption Quest | 69 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 07:57 AM EDT (#165446) #
Dude's got some game

...
and some brains.  Good idea to have Bosh throw out the first pitch. 
Flex - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 09:52 AM EDT (#165448) #
Casting forward to tonight, I'm concerned about Josh Towers. It's not based on his spring performance, which was excellent, or on his previous season, which is history. It's based on his statements in various stories over the last couple of days that he is "frustrated" that he hasn't pitched in so long and that "who knows how you feel after 10 days?"

It sounds to me like he's getting his head screwed on all wrong and he's going to be taking the mound with a defeatest attitude and a bunch of built-in excuses. If he's shelled in the first three innings, I for one will not be surprised.
Magpie - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 09:59 AM EDT (#165449) #

he is "frustrated" that he hasn't pitched in so long and that "who knows how you feel after 10 days?"

I'm certain he's having unhappy flashbacks to 2004, when he broke camp as the fifth starter, sat around getting rusty, made finally two mediocre April starts and was promptly designated for assignment.

Maldoff - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#165452) #
While I really enjoyed Burnett battling through and winning an outing he didn't pitch all that well, I think he got lucky he was facing the Royals. If it was a team with a few more major league hitters, last night could have gotten ugly in a hurry.
timpinder - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#165453) #

At least Towers is facing the Royals lineup.  That should increase the likelihood that he'll be successfull and help with his confidence.  I'm actually expecting Towers to be a decent 5th starter with an ERA a little over 4.50.  I don't think he'll ever pitch as well as he did in 2005, or as badly as he did in 2006, but a return to the mean wouldn't surprise me.  My real concerns, whether justified or not, are with Chacin and Ohka.  Call it a gut feeling, but I don't want to watch when Ohka faces the Yankee's but I've got a good feeling about Towers this year.  Time will tell.

 

MrElbertBuffin - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#165455) #
Hearing the concern regarding Towers being rusty tonight I have several questions.  Don't teams have pitchers throw simulated games in order to keep fresh or to come back from short layoffs?  Would Towers not have thrown one of these five days ago?  If not, then why not?  I know that Gibbons said that Towers would be available the day that Ohka started, but is an eighth bullpen arm for a night really more important than keeping a starter somewhat on schedule?

Is this much ado about nothing, or is there cause for concern?  In the latter case, it seems quite odd that given the incredible amount of preparation that goes into fielding a major league baseball team, they would then just turn around and let one of their starters get out of whack.
PeterG - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#165456) #
Okha has had past success against the Yankees. His assortment of curves and change-ups likely gives them trouble.
Pistol - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#165457) #
I'm actually expecting Towers to be a decent 5th starter with an ERA a little over 4.50

That'd make him the best 5th starter in the league.

There were only 22 (qualifying) pitchers with an ERA under 4.50 and only 28 with an ERA under 4.80.
VBF - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#165459) #
And that's entirely within the realm of possibility. Would he have not been the best 5th (perhaps 4th?) starter the the league in 2005?

It sounds to me like he's getting his head screwed on all wrong and he's going to be taking the mound with a defeatest attitude and a bunch of built-in excuses


You must be hearing wrong then. That's simply not Josh Towers. Dude doesn't/will not make excuses.

Barry Bonnell - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#165460) #

It's very early but the offence is looking as good as advertised.

So good, in fact, I think we should ship Reed Johnson or Alex Rios away for a solid starter. 

This team is one good starter away from being a serious contender in the American League.  Chacin/Okha/Towers does not inspire confidence although Jannsen is starting to be an intriguing prospect for a spot in the rotation.

Adam Lind would be ready to slide into the vacated outfield spot.

Arms Longfellow - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#165461) #
NO! What is this obsession with trading away Rios? I remember last offseason when some people here were begging JP to trade Rios for Brad freaking Wilkerson.
Ryan Day - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#165462) #

I'm really not sure you'd get a quality starting pitcher for Rios or Johnson. The Phils were apparently hot on Rios, and all they were offering was John Lieber.

 Pitching is at a huge, huge premium. Unless someone like the Angels gets really desperate, I can't see it happening; what's the point of trading Rios, while he's still cheap, for a 3rd-4th starter?

  If Johnson has another strong season, I'd consider trading him to open up a spot for Lind. Right now, though, I'm not sure he's completely shed the "4th outfielder" label in the eyes of MLB.

#2JBrumfield - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#165465) #

It's been a while that the Jays have won a home opener so comfortably.  I felt the game was over after the 2nd inning.  The game could've turned out differently because Burnett just couldn't throw strikes in the early going, especially in the 2nd.  That inning ending double play ball A.J. induced to Overbay was perfect because it looked like it was going to be a line out before it short hopped in front of him.  That froze the runners just long enough for them to complete the difficult 3-6-3 twin killing.  It also helped that it was the catcher rapping into the DP.

Those who complain that baseball is a boring sport could pull out the first 3 innings as exhibit A.  Nobody knew how to pitch.  A.J. just couldn't locate with any of his pitches and relied exclusively on the heater though it was on a curve that he got Buck on to end the 2nd.

Another positive was the Jays weren't really giving away any at-bats.  They just kept trying to pour it on and that was encouraging.

The only negative was the Jays inability to reach double digits.  Vernon gets thrown out by a mile at the plate in the 1st and I don't remember seeing Rios near the plate to tell him to slide.  And Hill gets stranded after a leadoff double in the 7th.  If that's the only complaints I can muster, this should be a hell of a season!  :)

Random observations surrounding the game......

The pre-game ceremonies were pretty decent.  For those who weren't there, there were flourescent base lines laid down and just like a stick of dynamite about to go off, the lines lit up like someone rounding the bases.  It was a cool effect.  They also had a montage of play-by-play calls from Tom and Jerry.  Very well done.

The line-up introductions seemed to take forever.  When you're trying to rile up the crowd, I don't think it's a good idea to introduce the trainers first.  It seemed like everyone from the tax accountants and the ushers were introduced before the players.  The jumbotron graphics seemed to come right out of the movie "Tron" for the player introductions.

The Jays had trouble scrounging up a couple of catchers for the pre-game ceremonial first pitches by Ernie Whitt and Alan Ashby.  Tim Langdon had to call out for a couple of volunteers to do it.  Usually, it's the backups who handle these chores but I guess the likes of Jason Smith were too big league for that :).  Lyle Overbay and Aaron Hill did the honours and they went on to have pretty good nights with the stick.  Maybe more of the regulars should catch behind the plate for ceremonial first pitch.

An Ontario Power Authority ad featuring Paul Godfrey and the provincial Energy minister talking about the changes made around the RC to save energy was one of the most painful commercials I have ever seen.  I hope we don't get to see this ad too often.  The script reading was so mechanical, that's the only way I can describe.  I wonder how many takes that took.  I bet the producers at the end of it all probably just said to hell with it, we're done, it won't get any better!  I don't mean to make fun of Paul Godfrey.  He helped clear up a long standing problem I had when it came to ordering Toronto Star Season Passes but that commercial was bad.

In a rip off of the sausage race in Milwaukee, they had a Chili race but it was too short and lame.  It was opening night, hopefully they can iron out the kinks and make it longer and funnier.

Even Ryan Greer had a blooper as well as he forgot the name of the other car in the GM giveaway when he asked the winner which car she wanted. 

As far the scoreboard goes, it appeared the linescore graphics were made bigger but the auxiliary stats scoreboard graphics were made smaller. 

The one thing I wish they'd bring back was the bio information on each player on the jumbotron during their first at bat (birthplace, bats, throws, etc.).  Instead, they just threw out some random facts about each player before running down their plate appearances in the later AB's.  I also wish the Jays would take a page out of the Phillies scorebook and list a scoring play after each at-bat, such as 4-3, 3-6-3 DP, F9, etc.  It'd be a way to encourage people to score the game and maybe buy more programs as a result.  

Anyways, it's good to have baseball back in town and I hope we have more games like this one all season long! 

 

Ryan Day - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#165466) #

The Jays are having a bit of fun with the with the whole "Frank Thomas shouldn't beat children on television" silliness:

Not only have the Jays appealed that ruling but they’ve taken the whole matter a step further by declaring their game against the Seattle Mariners at Rogers Centre on Sept. 2 Frank Thomas “Pillow Giveway” day for kids.

The first 5,000 kids aged 14-and-under – watch out, the Jays will probably be checking for ID – into the Rogers Centre for that game will be given a free pillow. One side of the pillow will have a picture of Thomas and the other side will carry his name.

Frank Markotich - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#165469) #
And the first hundred kids get to be hit by a pillow by Frank Thomas himself.
Magpie - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#165472) #

Okha has had past success against the Yankees.

Hmm. While he does have a 0-1, 1.50 record against them, that's in two career starts (12 IP), none of them in the last three years.

Barry Bonnell - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#165476) #

NO! What is this obsession with trading away Rios? I remember last offseason when some people here were begging JP to trade Rios for Brad freaking Wilkerson.

That's lunacy. But is trading Rios for another solid starting pitcher lunacy? Especially with Adam Lind waiting in the wings? i don't think we should trade him now but wait a couple months and if he starts putting together a season like the first half of last season his trade value will skyrocket.

I don't think this team can seriously contend with the rotation we have. Especially with the Yanks adding Clemens and the Sox adding Jon Lester later on in the year.

Barry Bonnell - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#165477) #

I'm really not sure you'd get a quality starting pitcher for Rios or Johnson. The Phils were apparently hot on Rios, and all they were offering was John Lieber.

Did the Dodgers offer Brad Penny? That would have to be seriously looked at.

Barry Bonnell - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#165478) #

Just to be clear; I do believe the best case scenario for the Jays is we keep Rios and Janssen and/or McGowan becomes that solid #3.

timpinder - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#165480) #

Towers has spent his entire major league career in the AL East and his ERA is 4.89.  That's including his horrible 2006 season.  (From www.thebaseballcube.com)

Maybe an ERA around 4.50 is hoping for the best, but I'd take a 4.89 ERA out of the 5th spot too, especially in this league and this division.

krose - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#165482) #
Last season was no sweetheart at the rodeo for Josh. There need be no spite or anger toward Towers. He will either provide the answer (as per the 2005 season), or he will have to leave.

A byrd's eye view for tonight's game!!
Mylegacy - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#165483) #

My two bits worth...

AJ...last night he showed great stuff, with very little command. I can see why when he can command he can dominate. He improved as the game went on. Is he the co-20 game winner we need with Doc? Yea, I think so. I still don't like the way he falls off to his left after a pitch.

"A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!" or the 21st century version..."Rios for an Ace starter!" Ain't gonna happen. Might get a Lilly...maybe a Meche...but ONLY after they've crashed and burned and their team wants to get rid of them. Rios is going nowhere...until the trading deadline (if at all...) when we pick up someones bad contract.

Starters...If Ohka bobbles next time...Janssen. If Chacin bobbles...Zambrano. If Towers bobbles... Marcum. We have the technology, we can rebuild from within, only when our in house techy's can't do it do we consider trading Rios.

Remember...last year Towers got 10 flights of steps down the staircase to hell. This year we've got the backup to save ourselves before he (or any of the other three Tower's we have) gets even 10 steps down that staircase. That is a huge, massive, gie-hu-moung-ous, (...er you get the idea) difference.

Opening day at home, Good.

Winning by 246 runs, Great!

51,000 Jay's fans, screaming our feathered friend's every play, Priceless! 

FanfromTheIsland - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 05:33 PM EDT (#165484) #

Woo-hoo, first post.  As well, last night was the first home opener I went to.  Pre-game was cool, but as #2JBrumfield said, player introductions were a bit too long. 

It was nice when everybody gave the Big Hurt a nice welcoming ovation.  And some fans in right field were giving Matt Stairs a "Bleacher Creatures" type of roll call.  Us Blue Jays fans. *chuckles and shakes head*

FanfromTheIsland - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#165485) #
Way off topic, but what happened to good 'ol NFH?  BB isn't the same without POTD.
Joanna - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 06:04 PM EDT (#165486) #

That was a crazy game.  AJ, for those two innings, decided it just wasn't a Blue Jay game unless someone pitched like Ted Lilly.  He had a 3 hit shut out going and it felt like any minute he was going to just lose it. The strike zone was elusive and he was walking guys with two outs.  Working from behind.  Crossing up his catcher.  The boy has dynamite stuff though and if he can get his head going and his feelings out of it, he is going to be a lot of fun.

Aaron Hill had a beautiful game.  And Vdub swore when he popped up, a true indicator that the baseball season has begun.

And re. Josh Towers.  That guy had a crappy year.  A nightmare year for any pitcher.  But he never blamed anyone else, he took responsibility for his own performance.  He also never got snotty with the media.  His team also seems to love him and were very supportive of him.  He worked very hard in the winter and spring to earn his job back, so I'm going to support him now.

Ryan C - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#165487) #
Trading away Rios for anything less than a young #2/3 starter would be a completely boneheaded move at this point.  The team has a glut of decent 3-4-5 starters and relievers already, to the point that they had to give away Rosario for nothing, so adding another makes zero sense at any price.

Rios is a talent, he's one of the only good young hitters on this ballclub and a better hitter than either Johnson or Hill.  Lind might be very good (if unproven), but who here would be comfortable going the rest of the year with an OF of Wells/Sparky/Lind/Stairs?  If Wells were to go down for any length of time we'd be completely sunk.

Lefty - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#165488) #

Didn't even need the give away clue to recognize this influential 1968 album.

But let the record show it wouldn't be until around 1975 or 76 till I fell in love with it.

Lefty - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#165489) #

Richard Griffin has an excellent column on AJ Burnett in todays's Star online. Here is an  excerpt from the top.

"There are reasons why A.J. Burnett has never fulfilled his awesome potential. One of those downside risks counteracting his talent is a focus that isn't as simple to describe as day-to-day. It can be inning-to-inning, even pitch-to-pitch."

RhyZa - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#165492) #
Look, JT can be a wonderful person and I don't doubt that, but one thing I'm sick of hearing is excuses for the guy.   He's clearly a smoke and mirrors, put the ball in play and hope for the best type pitcher so it shouldn't come as a surprise when these balls fall in, and it shouldn't just be discounted as luck either since it's part of his makeup. 

I know it sounds harsh to criticize him this early but I just think this is all a big waste of time (and starts) to continue this ill-fated Josh Towers experiment.  With naming him as a starter, there is an inherent obligation to giving him multiple chances, when it's clear that the inevitable conclusion will lead us to the fact that he doesn't belong in the rotation.   If this is the case, I'd rather he get shelled now than be just mediocre enough to prolong his removal, and his subpar contributions, from the rotation.

timpinder - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 08:58 PM EDT (#165493) #
It's the middle of the 6th, and I have to say a feel really badly for Josh Towers.  He deserved better.  I thought he pitched well but he didn't have great defense tonight, he hasn't had run support, his last earned run scored after Downs was brought in, and he just seemed to have some bad luck.  I hope that this unfortunate outing, and the fans booing him after every run or hit, doesn't affect him too much.  I'm really going to be rooting for him now. 
Mike Green - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#165494) #
Towers pitched well enough tonight, and much better than Burnett and Ohka did in their first appearances.  I have no idea how he will do over the season, but criticizing him for tonight's start is quite harsh.

I wondered about the decision to give Smith and Stairs starts in the field in Towers' first appearance of the season, and in particular the effect on his confidence.

Magpie - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#165495) #
He's clearly a smoke and mirrors, put the ball in play and hope for the best type pitcher

So?

And oh, I don't know, Tom Glavine isn't?

I'm inclined to give Towers a chance because of his upside. Only two men in the Blue Jays organization have posted a 120+ ERA over 200 innings in the major leagues. One of them is  Roy Halladay. Only one man in the Blue Jays organization has ever strung together twelve quality starts in a row, and it wasn't Roy Halladay. Surely someone who has demonstrated that they can actually achieve things like that at the major league level seems worth checking out, at least as much as someone who can sting radar guns at AA but doesn't have a clue how to actually, you know, pitch

Anyway, Towers was just fine tonight, although the team behind him stunk out the joint. If - and it's a reasonable if - but if he continues to throw as well as he did tonight, he'll win a dozen games this year.
RhyZa - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#165496) #
I'll let that Glavine reference go because I'm sure you actually know better, and even though you're not comparing them, it is equally absurd to merely mention him in the same breath as Towers.  That was a good stretch that Towers had, I will give you that, but many pitchers who have put up such runs have failed to repeat it and I believe the peripherals would back up that there is a strong possibility that it was merely a one-off. 

And this was KC, this is about as good as I expect to get out of Towers.  I hope I'm wrong, I really do.  If and when I am, I'll be back to take my lumps and be the first to tip my hat to him, as it naturally behooves me to root for one of my own.   
Rob - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#165497) #
Anyway, Towers was just fine tonight, although the team behind him stunk out the joint.

Agreed. At least for Towers' sake, his ERA isn't outlandish. If all those runs were earned, he'd be at 9.53, but then again, if the Jays didn't play like that, he wouldn't have to worry about his numbers anyway. At least Towers can say he's twice given up 10 hits in the second Jays home game of the year.

I can't believe they made just four official errors tonight. Seven would be just as believable. That was pathetic.
Magpie - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#165499) #
No, I'm not comparing them. But it irritates me to no end that people are so easy to dismiss guys who don't stand 6-5 and throw 95 mph as doing it with "smoke and mirrors."  When it's simply no such thing. It's pitching. I like to bring up Glavine because every last pitcher at every level in the Blue Jays organization throws harder and has better stuff than Glavine.

Even Towers!

Actually, so do a few of the position players, now that I think about it.

Ryan C - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#165500) #
Actually, so do a few of the position players, now that I think about it.

Frank Menechino threw a mean sinker.
ahitisahit - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#165502) #
I think Gibbons is the weak link on this team. If my team had just won 3 (should have been 4) games in a row, what would I change... absolutley nothing. Instead, Stairs was in playing an abysmal left field, Jason Smith and Jason Phillips also got the start (I guess an argument can be made about giving Zaun the night off). I thought Towers picthed pretty well. Rios seemed to have some zeal at the plate batting first, but he made some pretty bad plays in the field.
Lefty - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#165503) #

What was the message to Towers tonight, was is like we trust you and here is your test Grasshopper.

Or we could give a damn for your success, your crap anyhow so we might as well rest our A team while your on the hill.

I would actually like to hear Gibbons or Ricciardi express their line-up decision tonight. To me that was just bailing on a teamate that could use just a little extra support in his first start of the season after a woeful 06. And I'm not blaming his teamates per say. I think Rios was tight tonight, knowing there was no margin for error. That was just about his worst night ever on defense and he has had a few clangers in the past.

Stairs in left tonight, I mean what the hell is the thinking tonight of all nights.

Yeah, I 'd say management should take a few lumps for this loss.

AWeb - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#165504) #
I had similar thoughts when I saw the starting lineup, along the lines of  "doesn't gibbons want Towers to succeed?". If you need to work Stairs into a game, do it with Burnett or Hallday, two guys who give up a lot fewer outfield balls in play. Of course, Wells and Rios both misplaying balls didn't help. And then the infield crapped the bed on top of that. Better defense might result in 2-3 fewer hits, 2-3 fewer runs. The Jays lost this one as a team, from opening lineup choice straight through the game. It happens.

Towers did manage to strike out 6, something he managed 6 times in 2005, and not at all in 2006. So that's a good sign, right?

John Northey - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#165505) #
This game did look like Gibbons decided ahead of time it was a lost cause. 3 regulars sitting, your number 5 starter going on 10 days rest. If it was Pete Rose managing I'd have wondered if he was betting on the games before and after.

In the end the 3 subs went 3 for 10 (2 singles and a double) with no walks, a strikeout, one run scored and one error made. Downs, for the first time this season, was allowed to face more than two batters. Marcum, the 12th man on the staff I suspect, was given 2 innings. Both pitched well, but the use of them suggests the same as the others used. Namely that this game was viewed as a lost cause.

Perhaps this is a good thing for Gibbons to do. When you have your 5th starter going to give a few regulars a day off and basically see if the baseball gods will be kind and give it to you. Maximize your shot at winning the other 4 games while making it so you need your 5th guy to pitch his heart out. We'll see what Josh & Gibbons do in his next start on Sunday vs Detroit.
Ryan Day - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#165506) #
Only two men in the Blue Jays organization have posted a 120+ ERA over 200 innings in the major leagues.

  Three, actually: A.J. Burnett did it in 2002. He also came darn close in 2005, with an ERA+ of 117 in 209 innings. And  Gustavo Chacin barely missed the club in 2005: 119 ERA+ in 203 innings.

 Not that this affects your point.

   Of course, many would say that Chacin is just another "smoke and mirrors" guy, but he and Towers combined to pitch over 400 innings with a 3.71 ERA in 2005. And while it's fair to suggest neither will ever be that good again, I, too, am somewhat baffled by much of the "Get rid of 'em!" cries.

  Towers isn't going to get the chance to seriously hurt the Jays in 2007. If he has two or three more bad starts - and I'm not sure tonight was entirely bad - either Janssen or Marcum will be in the rotation.

  I have to agree that Gibbons didn't exactly field the best lineup. Smith and Stairs hurt the defence, while Stairs and Phillips are offensive downgrades. I understand trying to get everyone some playing time, but three backups in one night?
jsut - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#165507) #
I was at tonights game and I feel horrible for Josh.  To my mind both of Stairs' misplays in left should be charged as errors to Gibbons.  I can't even begin to fathom what the message to Josh was supposed to be by sitting 3 starters.  I sure hope Gibby was apologizing to Josh for selling him out when he took the ball from him in the 6th, because that's what he did.  Hopefully in his next start the rest of the team will actually show up to play too.
westcoast dude - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#165508) #
Victor Zambrano is literally the most feared pitcher in baseball. He's the kind of man who might plonk ARod rather than waste four pitches on an intentional pass with first base open--and do it with a big smile. In Spring Training, we saw how he sawed Cano off at the hands.  There just has to be a way that he starts against the Yankees.  The team didn't play well behind Towers. Setting aside Matt Stairs as a separate issue of Chronic Clown Canadian Contentitis, if the likes of Rios and Wells, the All-Star outfielders, aren't comfortable behind Towers, put him in the pen where he can adequately eat innings in mopups or blowouts. Victor is Ready.
Magpie - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 11:12 PM EDT (#165509) #
A.J. Burnett did it in 2002

Uh... uh... I said "in the major leagues."

Oh, all right!
Alex Obal - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 11:13 PM EDT (#165510) #
I have nothing to contribute. I'd just like to add one more voice to the chorus. Josh Towers was fantastic for 5 innings tonight and deserved better behind him.

Josh ran out of gas in the 6th. It would've been nice to see the start end on a somewhat high note. It is however hard to fault Gibbons for not immediately firing up the pen when his pitcher was super efficient and had only thrown 65 pitches through 5.

Dustin McGowan ravaged Charlotte tonight to the tune of 9 K, 6 hits and a walk over 5 innings. If he continues to burninate the IL, he'll force the Jays' hand very very soon. My hope is that Towers isn't already predestined to be the first man out of the rotation when that happens.
Magpie - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 11:17 PM EDT (#165511) #
The team didn't play well behind Towers.

Just one of those nights. Towers, like Halladay, is the type of pitcher that generally gets good defense. He doesn't waste any time, he's always around the plate, and there's no shortage of balls in play. There's no sitting around getting bored. It's the guys who take forever between pitches (hello Gus!) or the ones who walk a zillion batters (hello Victor!) who tend to have their defenders fall asleep behind them.
Four Seamer - Tuesday, April 10 2007 @ 11:45 PM EDT (#165512) #

I have nothing original to add, either.  I thought Towers pitched quite competently tonight, and was given absolutely no support either by his teammates or his manager, who hung him out to dry as soon as the lineup cards were exchanged.

The Jays should be required to post a parental advisory notice before every Stairs start in the outfield.  No child should be exposed to that type of obscene performance.   

deep dish - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 12:07 AM EDT (#165514) #
I agree with all the poster who thought that Towers got the raw end of the deal with all the backups playing and he really did not pitch badly.  I have a few other observations made during the game

  • For someone with Frank Thomas' track record I am suprised at the number of pitches he swings for and misses.  I am not sure this is a sign of anything...
  • I had the sense Alex Rios hasn't played well, but saw he was hitting around .300.  Then I noticed his on base percentage and batting average are identical (.296).  Is he impatient or is this just a small sample size?
  • Troy Glaus looks like he is hurting quite badly, in spite of this he is much more athletic than his press would suggest.

actionjackson - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 01:16 AM EDT (#165515) #
I was there tonight and from the moment I saw the lineup, I felt Gibby had hung Josh out to dry. As it turned the only player in the starting nine that came to play tonight was Josh Towers, and for that he received a round chorus of boos. Gregg Zaun did his thing off the bench and I can't find too much fault with Lyle Overbay, but the rest of them as another Bauxite said: "Crapped the bed." I know "fan" is short for fanatic, but how is it that the best player in the starting nine gets booed and razzed from ball one to lead off hitter David DeJesus to his painful exit in the sixth, as another Bauxite said: "one out shy of a quality start"? It was embarrassing to be a part of such an idiotic crowd, but I guess that's what you get on "$2.00 (2-cent brain) Tuesday". It's hard enough to pitch to big league hitters, but when you're then asked to play all the other positions as well and your manager has a brain cramp while filling out the lineup card, well I'd have to say Josh deserves a mulligan for this one.

 RhyZa, I'm not sure what game you were watching tonight, but the player of the game was Josh Towers and the play of the game was his hustle cover of third base to nail Grudzielanek after possibly the lamest double play flip in history by Aaron Hill. As for the smoke-and-mirrors load, I doubt even Roy Halladay could've done too well with this bunch of Keystone Cops behind him. There aren't many Johan Santana's out there, are there? There are a lot more "smoke-and-mirrors" types I'd have to say. Nobody has ever said Josh Towers is number 1 starter material, but he is definitely serviceable as a #4 or #5 starter and those are valuable. I didn't even mention the 10 days he had off between game action. He is extremely pitch efficient and works quite quickly, although he slowed down a bit tonight, probably wondering where the team that showed up last night was. The point is, it is wwwaaayyy too early to throw him under the bus. I need some 2007 evidence and tonights game provided zero. Obviously, the ideal scenario would be to have the young bucks push him aside, but I don't think we're there yet and some of them are still needed in the bullpen. Let League work his way back and maybe McGowan will be pushing by then, barring one of the bottom three starters needing to be replaced. This year, there are far more options at starting pitcher, and that's... a good thing.

Speaking of pitching, Zach Greinke put on a clinic tonight. Not sure, but I think I saw him hit all nine different velocities between 85 mph and 93 mph tonight with his fastball and he'd add 4 mph here and subtract 3 mph there within at bats. No wonder the Jays were so off-balance. Throw in a changeup that had everyone out in front and a nasty 84 mph slider and the occasional high 70's curve ball and this guy looks like the real deal. I know I'll be rooting for him, just not against the Jays, because he's already won a huge battle to get back on the mound after his battles with an anxiety disorder. I sometimes wish Burnett could add and subtract with his fastball like that, and of course mix in a changeup (whatever happened to that anyway?). Greinke's still very young and I think he's got a chance to be a good one. Let's get 'em tomorrow. It's a lefty and it's always fun to face lefties with this lineup.
Mylegacy - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 01:48 AM EDT (#165516) #

Actually, I drew the opposite conclusion from the 3 B-list replacements...I saw Gibby telling Towers we're a team, do your best it's one game, no big deal. Towers KNOWS he deserved a better response...if the A-team had been there and things unfolded like they did tonight his confidence would be damaged...tonight I bet Josh is saying get me the big team and I'll kick butt. He did a lot of good things tonight...no walks, a strikeout per inning...a few too many hits (even if real players could have caught some of the bloops).

We are not going to the playoffs unless Janssen, for sure, and probably Marcum and McGowan are in the starting rotation by mid to late May... OR some of Chacin, Zambrano, Towers and Ohka play SO WELL the youngsters can't force their way in. I can't see all of Curly, Moe, Larry and Shemp keeping the cream from rising.

I like Smith, the guy has a cannon. Rios is scaring me... he swung at some pitches tonight that he should be past swinging at. HOWEVER, the ump was blind, not sure if he was deaf but I heard him so I know he wasn't dumb, at least not in the verbalizing meaning of the word. For the ump's sake I'll have this translated into braille.

China fan - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 03:18 AM EDT (#165517) #

     It's completely ridiculous to suggest that Gibbons had given up on this game in advance, or had written it off as a "lost cause" because Towers was pitching.  I've rarely heard such an absurd idea.  The Jays are playing one of the weakest teams in the league and they're going to see it as a "lost cause" just because their 5th starter is pitching?  You seriously believe this?

      In fact, Gibbons had a perfectly reasonable explanation after the game when he was asked about his decision to play Smith, Stairs and Phillips.   He knows that he will need all of those guys this year, and they need some ABs against major-league pitching if they're going to keep their timing sharp.   You can't keep them benched all year and then expect them to hit when you need them.   All of his key starters -- including Johnson, Zaun and Clayton -- will need some days off if they're going to avoid fatigue over the course of a long season.   And, offensively at least, his three back-ups were completely adequate against the Royals, going 3-for-10 with a double.   If you're determined to blame someone, what about the heart of the order, the regulars who went 1-for-16 with two errors?   Actually I wouldn't really blame them either, since this was their first bad game of the season, but some fans seem keen to find scapegoats.

      Don't forget that Gibbons had been planning to start Stairs and Smith on the 3rd game of the season, and had actually written their names into the lineup card, but the game was cancelled.  Does that mean that Gibbons had given up on the 3rd game (Chacin's start) as a lost cause too?   Do we think that the back-ups are only allowed to play when Halladay is pitching?

    Personally, I think the Jays bench seems reasonably good so far, and I like the idea of giving them some ABs to keep everyone fresh.  

robertdudek - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 03:34 AM EDT (#165518) #
The bench is going to be the death of this team. One of the weakest benches on a contending team I have ever seen.
Mark - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 05:49 AM EDT (#165519) #
I agree, the bench is awful. But I think the answer is not far away. Replacing Stairs and McDonald with Lind/Reed and Adams might be a start.
AWeb - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 08:02 AM EDT (#165523) #
The Yankees have a terrible bench almost every year since I can remember. The Twins have had some terrible benches once they figure out who should be starting. The thing with contending teams in the AL is that they rarely use their bench. If the Jays don't contend this year, it won't be because their bench is weak, although it might be because they had to use it too much.

And usually you don't throw all of your bench players who need some work into the lineup at once. This is pretty basic managing tactics. I'm sure it was just a one time brain cramp from Gibbons, I don't recall him doing this last year.
greenfrog - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 08:22 AM EDT (#165525) #
It's hard to see Stairs holding off Lind (who is hitting .333 at Syracuse with power) for much longer. I've been in favour of giving Lind some time at AAA (so he can play LF full-time, and so the Jays can control him for an extra year) but it will be hard to keep him in the minors if he keeps hitting like this.
Leigh - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 08:48 AM EDT (#165527) #
6 strikeouts, 0 walks, 1 homer in 5 2/3 innings.

What, exactly, is the problem?  Towers is the third best pitcher in the rotation, I'd say.

Christopher - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 08:53 AM EDT (#165528) #

Actually, I drew the opposite conclusion from the 3 B-list replacements...I saw Gibby telling Towers we're a team, do your best it's one game, no big deal. Towers KNOWS he deserved a better response...if the A-team had been there and things unfolded like they did tonight his confidence would be damaged...tonight I bet Josh is saying get me the big team and I'll kick butt.

Maybe I'm misreading this comment, but if the idea of starting Stairs, Smith and Phillips in the same game was to give Josh a silver lining in the event of struggles, then I think that's a mistake. 

I'm all for keeping the bench sharp, but I don't see why all three had to start in the same game.  Maybe there's something behind the scenes that I'm missing, like this move makes the clubhouse happy because everybody feels like they belong or something, I don't know.  I found it frustrating though.

RhyZa - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#165546) #

I respect most of your opinions, and my assessments were by no means based solely on this one game.  Towers at his best is a rare thing, and the stars have to seemingly be aligned perfectly for this to happen.  When this doesn't happen, his chances against the rest of the AL are slim to none.  This affords him a certain amount of leeway, as people do not fault him for something that is inbuilt and essentially out of his control, but this is inconsequential to the effect this has on his chances of succeeding.
 
In a way he survived a fortunate fate with this start, instead of people focusing on the crippling HR conceded to Gordon or the fact he got swatted around the park, they focus on his outstanding yet irrelevant play (to his pitching) on 3rd and a few misplays in the field which costly as they were, will prove that they were a separate problem altogether (on another note, I could be wrong as I didn't catch the replay but felt Stairs made the right decision to go for that ball considering where he was positioned; the ball was hit so hard that the CF would make it to the ball at virtually the same time he would have).
 
When I said smoke and mirrors, it touched a nerve, but my intention with that phrase was not that one cannot be successful without a 95+ fastball but simply that Towers isn't the guy that can do it.

actionjackson - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#165560) #
RhyZa, you just proved the point that Blue Jay fans in general want Josh Towers head on a plate and won't be satisfied until he's gone. You labelled his outstanding defensive play as "irrelevant (to his pitching)", yet had anything gone wrong on that play, it seems like you (and many others) would have crucified him for it, conveniently forgetting of course that the play began with a lazy, needless gaffe from the usually surehanded Aaron Hill. Josh Towers got his double play groundball and when the infielders were finished booting it around he was there to make the play at the end, settling for one out instead of two. Minimize it if you want, but many pitchers, even seasoned vets, would've hung their heads after that lame play in the middle infield. It may not be "relevant to his pitching", but it is most certainly relevant to who showed up ready to play last night.
RhyZa - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#165566) #

Fair enough, it was a play that deserved full marks. 

What I meant, but didn't convey that well, was that it obviously cannot be used to forecast anything to do with his pitching. It was relevant in the sense that he is a gamer who will come to play everytime he is out there, but I never disputed that.

But I digress, the guy has had only one start and he lost, big deal.  I'll reserve any further judgement until he has a few more cracks at it.

Jeremy - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#165570) #
Anybody have any splits on what Towers' record is after a Blue Jays win?  Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me, but I've always thought that Towers seemed to get his butt kicked after a previous Jays win.
Mike Green - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#165571) #
It's fairly easy to check, Jeremy, with Towers' gamelogs (and preceding days boxes) available on BBRef.  His one loss in 2003 did occur after a Blue Jay win. 
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#165609) #
Way off topic, but what happened to good 'ol NFH?  BB isn't the same without POTD.

I'm alive, have a second child (another boy, thanks for asking), a surprise career development (I have one again -- surprise!) and very, very little time.  I haven't seen a game in full yet, and I've only been able to watch/listen to about half of three different games.  I actually was lured away from Batter's Box as a writer by another website that pays money for writing, but then this career resurgence got in the way and I haven't had the time to write and I haven't seen the games.  I think it'll work out better that way for them -- any website that pays a photographer to write stuff is asking for trouble.  I say this with affection: photographers, as a group, are dumb.  And stubborn.

If we can swing things with the Jays to let us in for photos again, at least Photo of the Week will return.  Maybe ...of the Day, but I don't know.  I wouldn't want to commit to it, timewise.  But in the meantime, it's early in the season and I haven't taken any photographs yet.
Ryan C - Wednesday, April 11 2007 @ 11:55 PM EDT (#165617) #
If we can swing things with the Jays to let us in for photos again, at least Photo of the Week will return.

And there was much rejoicing throughout the land!


actionjackson - Thursday, April 12 2007 @ 02:18 AM EDT (#165626) #
Sounds like you have a bit of a full plate NFH. Congratulations to you and Mrs. NFH on your new arrival. What's his name? Though there will be much rejoicing should some form of POTW return, take it easy on yourself and enjoy your other endeavours, as well as your growing family. Remember, left handed pitchers are always in demand, but a right handed thrower can succeed at any position on the diamond... hmmm, an interesting quandary.
FanfromTheIsland - Thursday, April 12 2007 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#165656) #

actionjackson's right.  You don't need to make your plate fuller than it already is, especially with your second child (congratulations, by the way!).  Just post your pictures whenever you're sure you have time, or if you feel you haven't done one in a while.  Anyway, thanks a lot.  POTW or POTD makes Da Box even better than it already is.

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