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Gil Meche for 5 years at $11 million per annum to the Royals.  The Mariners send Rafael Soriano to the Braves for Horacio Ramirez. And all is quiet, so far today, on the home front. 

Today, we have a "you supply the punch-line" joke.  What do you call it when John Schuerholz and Bill Bavasi spend 20 minutes in a room together alone?  Please keep it G-rated.




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Craig B - Thursday, December 07 2006 @ 03:57 PM EST (#160373) #

I have no joke here, I just like saying "Bill, let me show you how we do it in the Marines."

Mark - Thursday, December 07 2006 @ 04:05 PM EST (#160374) #
A Mariners fan would call that a mistake.
Mike Green - Thursday, December 07 2006 @ 04:07 PM EST (#160375) #
I don't know what one would call such a meeting, but it is a fact that Schuerholz has been heard mumbling to himself "no pain, no gain" for weeks afterward.
Ryan Day - Thursday, December 07 2006 @ 04:49 PM EST (#160379) #

Schuerstruck!

(More effective if accompanied by AC/DC)

Michael - Thursday, December 07 2006 @ 04:58 PM EST (#160380) #
A battle of the wits with an unarmed man?



Jordan - Thursday, December 07 2006 @ 04:59 PM EST (#160381) #

I can't think of anything G-rated to describe that.

Jordan - Thursday, December 07 2006 @ 05:06 PM EST (#160382) #

Oh, wait -- yes, I can:

"There are no words to contain all my wisdom.  I am so cunning, crafty and clever, so filled with deceit, guile and chicanery, such a knave, so shrewd, cagey as well as calculating, as diabolical as I am vulpine, as tricky as I am untrustworthy...well, I told you there were not words invented yet to explain how great my brain is, but let me put it this way: the world is several million years old and several billion people have at one time or another trod upon it, but I, Schuerholz the Sicilian, am, speaking with pure candor and modesty, the slickest, sleekest, sliest and wiliest fellow who has yet come down the pike. "

Dave Rutt - Thursday, December 07 2006 @ 05:22 PM EST (#160385) #
To Bavasi: "You got schuerved."
Mark - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 07:17 AM EST (#160419) #
In retrospect the SS Loogy trade was a bad idea. He has turned down arbitration from the Reds and will net them a supplemental 1st round pick in next years draft. By far Krivsky's best move.
Craig B - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 08:22 AM EST (#160420) #

He has turned down arbitration from the Reds

<Carson>Wow, that is some really wild, far-out stuff there</Carson>

What the heck?  I sure hope that Schoeneweis isn't looking for a long-term deal off the back of his 2006 performance, because it ain't happening for him.  Maybe the Reds told him he wasn't in their plans.

If Schoeneweis were looking to go back to the Angels, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.  Especially because the Angels need lefties - the only lefty to appear for them in the bullpen all last season was JC Romero, who was terrible.  (What a steal the Twins ended up getting by trading him for Alexi Casilla!)

Pistol - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 08:48 AM EST (#160421) #
He has turned down arbitration from the Reds and will net them a supplemental 1st round pick in next years draft. By far Krivsky's best move.

That supplemental 1st round pick will be no higher than 55th overall.  I certainly wouldn't have risked paying SS Loogy $3 million for that.
Chuck - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 08:57 AM EST (#160422) #

Schoeneweis has often shown issues on the self-awareness front. Long after he had proven to be a washout as a starter, he still maintained he could start. Even when Toronto signed him, he threw the idea out that he could be a spot starter even though he was signed explicitly to be a reliever. And now, he may have no idea that he has little worth beyond being a LOOGY.

We may never know why he elected to walk away from arbitration, but if it's because he thinks the Royals will pay him $11M to be a starter, he may be suffering from a little self-delusion.

Would he really return to Anaheim? While they could certainly use a lefty, I thought that he left there on bad terms, having being pulled from the rotation and eventually traded to Chicago. And wasn't Jack Bauer, er Jarrod Washburn, his buddy? That's one less draw to return to Anaheim of LA.

Alexander - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 08:59 AM EST (#160423) #
"In retrospect the SS Loogy trade was a bad idea"

How? He could not get ANYONE out. Draft pick or not...all he did was cost the team wins, Mark.
Chuck - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 09:11 AM EST (#160424) #

Draft pick or not...all he did was cost the team wins

Were Toronto to have kept him and offered him arbitration, there's every risk that he would have accepted. That's why they didn't offer Molina arbitration. The risk of it being accepted was too high.

Ryan Day - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 09:43 AM EST (#160426) #

J.P. Ricciardi: Not bitter at all about Meche signing with the Royals: (From The Star)

"I mean, when you're talking to guys (Meche and his agents) about coming to a place that's very close to winning and they're telling you how important winning is to them — and then he chooses a place like that ... well, that might've been an eye-opener for us."

Mark - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 09:54 AM EST (#160427) #
You cannot compare Molina with Schoeneweis for two reasons. The first is that Molina is a Type A, which means a team would have to forfeit a pick if they signed him. SS is a type B meaning a team doesn't. Second Boras said in November that he was looking for a 4 year deal for him and the Indians, Tigers and Red Sox were interested in signing him before the deadline. The Giants were the only team that showed interest in Molina.

The Reds made a very calculated move in offering him arbitration. Seeing what Jaime Walker got, there was a very good chance SS would get a more than a one year contract.

It seems every criticism of JP is defended whole heartedly without thought. It is obvious that instead of shipping him off for nothing in August it would have been a better idea to hold on to him and see what the market for him was. The Reds played it well, the Jays didn't. The arguments of "well he could have accepted arbitration" is not a good one, because he didn't accept it.
Ryan Day - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 10:10 AM EST (#160432) #

 I would guess Schoenweis is testing the market largely on the strength of his 0.63 ERA with the Reds. When he left the Jays, he had an ERA over six and was barely even getting lefties out. Would you really want to offer arbitration to that guy? There's no way he turns down arbitration without that sparkly finish in the weaker league.

 Yes, in hindsight, Ricciardi should have offered arbitration to Molina and Schoenewies (without trading him, obviously). But if he did that and they accepted, he could end up paying up to $10 million for two players he doesn't want or need. That's an expensive gamble.

Pistol - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 10:15 AM EST (#160433) #
At the time SS Loogy was traded he was going to be considered a NRI next year.  He had a 6.51 ERA with 18Ks and 16BBs in 37.3 innings with the Jays.  To assume that teams were going to line up for SS Loogy and pay him a few million when the most you could get for him in a trade was a PTBNL is a reach in my opinion.

I still think accepting arbitration was SS Loogy's best option and will until I see him sign a contract that proves it wrong.


Chuck - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 10:22 AM EST (#160435) #

The arguments of "well he could have accepted arbitration" is not a good one, because he didn't accept it.

I paid for life insurance last year. It was a poor decision. I didn't die.

My friend drove home drunk. It was a good decision. He didn't hit anything.

Managing risk means that you weigh, as best you can, the merits of a decision before you make it. You weigh the pros and cons and make the best decision possible with the information you have. Sometimes the decision won't be a correct one. But you hope that if you manage risk effectively, on balance the decisions you make will be the right ones.

It's not appropriate to only gauge the merits of a decision after the fact. Ricciardi was right to fear Molina accepting arbitration. Yes, it didn't work out. But it was the best decision at the time.

Mike Green - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 10:23 AM EST (#160436) #
If one wants to criticize Ricciardi for the off-season so far, there is plenty of material.  The Schoeneweis trade, and the possible loss of a sandwich pick that may ensue, seems to me to be the least of it.  At the time, the trade made perfect sense, and six good weeks of pitching from Schoeneweis followed by him declining the Reds' arbitration offer do not make the decision to trade him a poor one in retrospect. 
JohnnyMac - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 10:33 AM EST (#160439) #
The arguments of "well he could have accepted arbitration" is not a good one, because he didn't accept it.

Hindsight's always 20/20 Mark. You have to remember that Schoeneweis was putting up the worst season of his career. If he was a kid, it would understandable to hold on to him. His best years may be behind him as he is 33.  I would rather get rid of him than swallow the 600K while was consistently getting shelled, just to see what the market looked like.
His move of accepting arbitration was not predictable, just like his sub 1 ERA in Cincy. JP evaluated the consequences and made the call. (See Chuck's life insurance)

While I do agree that JP shouldn't be "defended whole heartedly without thought", I think that he made the right move here. Remember this move opened up a spot for Davis Romero, giving him some valuable experience.


Mark - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 10:44 AM EST (#160441) #
If one wants to criticize Ricciardi for the off-season so far, there is plenty of material

This is what I believe.

JP holds on to Schoeneweis, offers arbitration, gets a pick, the response here is "what a savvy move."

JP holds on to Schoeneweis, offers arbitration, he accepts, the response here is "well he's a serviceable left-hander, we could do worse."

JP trades Schoeneweis, the Reds get a pick and the response here is what is written above.

I pointed out that in "retrospect" it was a bad trade and it would have been better to hold on to Schoeneweis. Is there really an argument here? If you can get 55th overall pick, isn't it better to have it? It's a pretty simple observation. I just don't understand why everyone feels the need to defend the Jays stance. It was a good move by the Reds. Sure it was a small risk but it worked out. That is why in retrospect it was a bad trade. Even after the fact when we know what happened people are arguing that it wasn't a bad move.

Craig B - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 11:27 AM EST (#160446) #

Simple matter of cost/benefit analysis.

Assume that Schoeneweis leaving did cost the Jays the 55th pick in the draft (in fact, if he stays in Toronto doing his Amazing Grenade-Throwing Man act, there's no way he declined arbitration... but let's call it a given).

The Jays saved 47/180 of SS's salary by making the trade when they did.  That's $718,055.

(The Blue Jays also picked up cash in the trade... we'll ignore that for now.)

What is the value of the 55th pick?  Nate Silver over at Prospectus once did a great analysis of the value of first-round picks.  I think Nate comes to the wrong conclusion because he uses the free agent market for the estimator of the net benefit of talent, when he should use the average of all talent, but otherwise I love his system - which even includes bells and whistles like present-valuing the future contributions (the present-valuing needs some tweaking too... can it only be 15 months ago that inflation was that low!?)  The analysis only goes down to "Tier 4" of the first round, but concludes that a pick in that "tier" is worth $3.24 million in present value.

The number for the 55th pick isn't that high.  For one thing, the value actually drops off sharply all the way through round 1.  Second, there's the very high talent-cost that's used.  In the end, I would bet that the net benefit of the #55 pick is going to be just about what Ricciardi got for it.  I'm going to try to run the numbers on my blog (enlisting Nate's help, probably) and I will let you all know my result when I finish.

Ryan Day - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 11:44 AM EST (#160448) #

JP holds on to Schoeneweis, offers arbitration, gets a pick, the response here is "what a savvy move."

I think the response would be "J.P. got lucky / Schoeneweis is crazy."

  There's really no blind JP groupthink around here.  Have you seen the Royce Clayton thread?

Parker - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:06 PM EST (#160450) #
Mark, the point you're trying to defend is insane.  You're assuming that Schoeneweis would've put up the same numbers in Toronto if he hadn't been traded.  Do you think he would've refused arbitration in favor of testing the market if he was a 33 year-old reliever coming off a full season of lousy peripherals and an ERA north of 6?  He got lucky for a month in Cincy and benefitted from the standard NL pitching stat bonus.  Now he seems to think he can parlay six weeks of quality relief pitching into a multi-year deal somewhere.  The reason SS declined arbitration is that he is mental.  He obviously has no clear picture of his own value.
zaptom - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:09 PM EST (#160451) #
Happy Birthday Vernon Wells, this year will sure be a big one for you.
Mark - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:14 PM EST (#160452) #
Craig B,
good argument! If you are going to look into it more remember, if possible, to take into account the dramatic rise in salaries in the one and a half years since the BP piece was published. This will no doubt have an effect on the value of the picks.

I apologize for generalizing that everyone here is a yes man. I was just annoyed at the responses to a simple observation. I think hindsight is the best way to evaluate what were successful moves and not successful moves.
I thought at this time hindsight shows the trade was not a good move. Craig's insight might prove it was.
Maybe in ten years we will see that the 2007 draft was the worst in history and the Jays saved themselves a Million dollars which would make it a good move again. Or it could be the best draft ever and we will wish we had the pick. As of right now I would rather SS had declined arbitration as a member of the Jays.
Smithers - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:19 PM EST (#160453) #

By far the best line from the link to the article that Barry Bonnell posted is this:

"Beyond Roy Halladay and A.J. Burnett, Toronto's rotation is Olsen-twins thin."

The potential packages that he went on to describe - either Humber or Pelfrey along with with Milledge and Heilman for Wells - actually sound pretty appealing.  Sure, it's not addressing the major need at shortstop, but it would be nice to see some grade A prospects in the organization.

And regarding Schoeneweis, we have to remember that Scott Boras is his agent.  Who knows what kind of contract he'll end up with?  It will likely be bigger than the last one he signed with the Jays.

John Northey - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:25 PM EST (#160455) #

I do wonder about SS and I suspect some team out there made an offer, or suggestion of an offer that was better than he'd see in arbitration.  Why some team would do so is beyond me, but I'd have to think his agent wouldn't have told him to ignore arbitration otherwise.

One other thing to keep in mind about arbitration, the team can release the player and pay less than 100% depending on when they release him.  I can't remember the year, but one season around 1990 there were a batch of guys released due to teams deciding they weren't worth what the arbitrator gave them, guys like Pete Incaviglia - checking his BR page it looks like the winter of 90/91.  So if you were SS and the Reds already told you they would release you in the spring if you took them to arbitration wouldn't you keep looking rather than risk getting caught without a contract ala Molina last year?

Pistol - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:28 PM EST (#160456) #
According to this article J.P has let it be known that Wells is available and Omar Minaya has said to call him first:

I don't think there's anything in the article that says, or even infers, that "JP let it be known that Wells is available".  It sounds like Minaya said 'if Wells is available, talk to me'.
Mark - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:28 PM EST (#160457) #
You're assuming that Schoeneweis would've put up the same numbers in Toronto if he hadn't been traded. Do you think he would've refused arbitration in favor of testing the market if he was a 33 year-old reliever coming off a full season of lousy peripherals and an ERA north of 6?

I don't think it's insane at all to think he could have pitched the same in Toronto. He pitched really well in T.O. in 2005. He finished last year with an ugly 4.88 ERA and 1.39 WHIP and he is going to get a multi year contract. I don't think his 14 innings in Cincinnati fooled GM's out there into suddenly having interest. He is a left handed pitcher who can get out left handed hitters. That is why he will get a multi year contract and that is why the Jays gave him a 2-year/5 million dollar contract following a year were he had a 5.59 ERA in 112 innings with the White Sox.

Mike Green - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:34 PM EST (#160458) #
Mike Pelfrey is very interesting.  Lastings Milledge and Aaron Heilman are useful pieces.  The Mets seem to be aiming to win it all in 2007, and make a potential trading partner worth exploring.
Jonny German - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:39 PM EST (#160460) #

If one wants to criticize Ricciardi for the off-season so far, there is plenty of material.

I see it all as one interconnected thing: Pursuing Meche, not pursing Lugo, signing Clayton. This sequence is quite easily the strongest disagreement I've ever had with a move / strategy from Ricciardi. I wouldn't feel differently if he had signed Meche. I say all this recognizing that Lugo's contract with the Sox is no bargain.

Mark - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:40 PM EST (#160461) #
The only good thing about the Meche(and Dotel and hopefully Batista) deal is that it should make the Royals a little stronger. Remember, they play 18 games against each of the 4 AL Central teams that will battling the Jays for the wild card.
Mike Green - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 12:51 PM EST (#160464) #
I see it all as one interconnected thing: Pursuing Meche, not pursing Lugo, signing Clayton.

That is pretty much how I see it. 

The whole thing may work out all right anyways.  It is quite possible that by the time Opening Day rolls around, a better shortstop than Clayton (but probably not as good as Lugo) will be in the fold, along with a useful starting pitcher.  We shall see.
Parker - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 02:04 PM EST (#160467) #
I don't think it's insane at all to think he could have pitched the same in Toronto. He pitched really well in T.O. in 2005.

As was mentioned earlier, it's not a wise bet that a 33 year-old pitcher is going to rebound from a bad season.  It's a lot more likely he is the decline phase of his career.  If SS was 24 years old I'd give him the benefit of the doubt but at that age?  Not a chance.

He is a left handed pitcher who can get out left handed hitters. That is why he will get a multi year contract and that is why the Jays gave him a 2-year/5 million dollar contract following a year were he had a 5.59 ERA in 112 innings with the White Sox.


He sure couldn't get lefties out for the Jays this year.   He couldn't do his job and he was wasting a roster spot.  By the way, that ERA is misleading because the Chisox were using him as a starter and the Jays signed him with no intention of ever letting him start a game.  They didn't give a guy with a 5.59 ERA vs. lefties in relief five million over two years for the role of lefty specialist.
China fan - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 02:14 PM EST (#160469) #
   Just to change the subject a little:  is anyone else surprised that the Jays seem to be opting for Jason Smith rather than Chris Gomez as the infield utility man?   Gomez has much better offensive numbers than Smith and seems adequate defensively.  He might be a few years older than Smith, and a bit more expensive, but he's got much more major-league experience and better performance.  Several articles say that the Jays aren't interested in Gomez any more, because of the acquisition of Smith in the draft.  Surely this can't be motivated by a desire to save a few dollars: the Jays just saved $20-million by failing to sign Lilly or Meche and they won't be able to spend most of that money on other free-agents.  Bench strength is an issue for the Jays and shouldn't be neglected.  So, any theories on why they opted for Smith over Gomez?
Mark - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 02:20 PM EST (#160470) #
These are the stats for SS Loogy against lefties the last two years.

2006 .236 .330 .292

2005 .188 .258 .241

Wasn't it a bauxite that brought the sign indicating such to a game in '05?

He might have problems but getting lefties out isn't one of them.

Mike Green - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 02:26 PM EST (#160471) #
The idea seems to be that Jason Smith bats left, whereas Gomez bats right.  The club listed to the right prior to the acquisitions of Stairs and Smith. 

Mind you, Smith has hit .232/.269/.386 in 359 major league PAs against right-handed pitching.  He had a pleasant season last year at age 28 in Colorado Springs, but that and $5 will buy you a latte.

Ryan Day - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 03:03 PM EST (#160473) #

 Schoeneweis was amazing against lefties in 2005, but considerably less so in 2006 - they may not have hit him very hard, but they also didn't have to wait very long to see four pitches out of the strike zone: He had a 1.35 WHIP against lefties. (compared to 1.03 in 2005)

 If a pitcher is going to get beaten like a gong against righties, he'd better be completely dominant against lefties. Both Downs and Tallet were more effective against lefties than Schoeneweis. The Jays were better off just leaving a righty in to intentionally walk any tough lefty batters, since there was a good chance they'd get that result with Schoeneweis anyway.

Craig B - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 03:19 PM EST (#160474) #

Those c********** at the Toronto Star have done it again.  The headline and sub-head from today's web edition (I assume in the paper too...)

Jays' Wells cut from greeting card    Jays say it's strictly business but star fielder not so sure     and yet in the body of the article, what do we find?   Speaking from his home in Texas yesterday, the centre field standout agreed that the move was "just business" and said he would not take offence.   OK, then...
Mike Green - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 03:35 PM EST (#160475) #
Craig, it must be Friday afternoon.  I can't find the article you are referring to.  Can you provide a link?  Thanks.
Ryan Day - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 03:40 PM EST (#160476) #

I think he means this one.

I think it's clear at this point that the Star's headline writers either don't read the articles, or they're just jerks.

VBF - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 03:42 PM EST (#160478) #

The article appeared on the front page of the sports section paper version a couple days ago. Talk about filler...

Three birthdays in Blue Jay Land. Best wishes to V-Dub, Jeremy Accardo, and Sparky!

Michael - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 03:48 PM EST (#160479) #
Baseball prospectus has an unfiltered piece on outfield (as a unit) arms.  They are doing it after the speculation that Gonzalez-Pierre-Ethier in LA might be the worst outfield unit (in terms of arms) in a long, long time.  Woolner measures different units (3 specific players in position) at how well they prevent a runner on 2nd at scoring given a single is hit.  The best unit in the game last year (min 30 opp)?

Johnson-Wells-Rios

the 3rd best unit?

Catalanotto-Wells-Rios.
Mike Green - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 03:48 PM EST (#160480) #
Thanks, gentlemen.  Cathal Kelly normally writes on soccer and style.  I guess holiday greeting cards would fall within his bailiwick...
Craig B - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 04:10 PM EST (#160483) #

Thanks Michael for that interesting link.  By percentage of runners who score, the two Jays' OF units rated 1-2 as opposed to 1-3 in terms of runs prevented.  Also, in percentage terms it wasn't that close.  

The plate-blocking ability of the Zaun/Molina combination (Molina decent, Zaun terrific) helps; the turf at the Dome (ensuring the single gets to the outfielder quickly) helps more; the Jays' powerful offense - preventing opposing managers from taking chances with one-run strategies like sending runners - helps even more than that; having three fast outfielders to cut off balls between them probably helps most of all.

King Ryan - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 04:13 PM EST (#160484) #
I think it's clear at this point that the Star's headline writers either don't read the articles, or they're just jerks.

Of course, these two options are not mutually exclusive...
Mike Green - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 05:57 PM EST (#160492) #
The 2006 PMR's for centerfielders were just released. The correlation with the Dial Ratings- AL and NL is fairly weak. Here's a chart, for those players for whom we have both ratings:

Player PMR (outs over predicted) Dial (runs saved)
Beltran 18 9
Anderson 12 3
Patterson 13 16
Damon 11 4
Crisp 8 -8
Gathright 11 -2
Clark 6 -3
Taveras 8 5
Granderson 9 5
A. Jones 8 -9
Baldelli 4 0
Rowand 4 -3
Edmonds 3 6
Cameron 4 8
Byrnes 2 8
Pierre 3 16
Matthews Jr. 1 -8
Figgins 1 3
Wells -1 12
Hunter -2 0
Duffy -1 6
Sizemore -4 7
Finley -4 3
Kotsay -7 -5
Sullivan -14 -1
Lofton -16 -2
Griffey Jr. -22 -11

One would have to multiply the PMR by about .8 (I am guessing) to convert from outs to runs.  The average of the two ratings, once the conversion is done, would likely be a more accurate representation than either rating. 

Mark Kotsay is not what he once was out there.  Beltran and Patterson seem to the best out there right now.
Smithers - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 06:02 PM EST (#160493) #

Andy Pettitte looks as if he will be making his return to the AL East, reaching a preliminary deal with the Yankee$.  Yet another example of an aging star signing a big dollar-short term contract, with exactly the same terms as Barry Bonds received - 1 year, $16 million.  At least New York isn't getting any younger with this signing - but their rotation isn't looking any worse unfortunately.

Will Pettitte's signing be enough to convince Roger Clemens to return to the Bronx for one last shot at a ring?  

King Ryan - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 06:20 PM EST (#160494) #
Has there been any discussion on here regarding Marcus Giles?
The Braves' next big decision could involve second baseman Marcus Giles, who has drawn tepid trade interest. He's arbitration-eligible and will make more than $5 million unless the Braves trade him or decide not to tender him a contract before Tuesday's deadline.

If arbitration-eligible players aren't tendered, they become free agents.


Link: Here.

Is this a possibility? I know he's not a great defender, but I like him a lot more than Royce Clayton/John McDonald!
Michael - Friday, December 08 2006 @ 06:21 PM EST (#160495) #
PMR by about .8 (I am guessing) to convert from outs to runs

That doesn't seem right.  And out, even an OF out, should be worth quite a bit less than a run not more than a run.  It is interesting to see that the PMR is only based on last years data, so you don't have the "bad" centering that sometimes has occurred in the past where nearly the whole league is above/below average at a certain position.  Wells was pretty much right on average and the other 4 outfielders (Cat, Reed, Rios) were all well above average according to the PMR numbers for the corners, which is also given in that link.
Mike Green - Saturday, December 09 2006 @ 10:32 AM EST (#160499) #
Michael,  "an extra out" made by a centerfielder includes two and sometimes three elements- an out, a baserunner, and sometimes extra bases advanced.  The value of a play made can range from about .2 runs (a two-out bloop in front of the centerfielder with nobody on) to 4 runs (an Eric Davis special- a 2 out grand slam home run pulled back from over the fence).  For shortstops, the value of an extra play is between .65 and .7; it is slightly more for centerfielders because of the routine possibility of an extra base hit. 
Wildrose - Saturday, December 09 2006 @ 02:54 PM EST (#160510) #
The Baseball Analysts take regarding  the Vernon Wells situation. Should a player be penalized for taking good advantage of his home hitting environment ? Are road stats the best way to analyze a player?
Marc Hulet - Saturday, December 09 2006 @ 04:27 PM EST (#160514) #
Personally I have always felt Baldelli was overrated. In his first two years his OPS was about .750 and he only walked 14 times last year in more than 360 at-bats.

Include Penny's history of injuries and some questions with his makeup, I for one would not like to see the trade.

Rob - Saturday, December 09 2006 @ 05:18 PM EST (#160515) #
One would have to multiply the PMR by about .8 (I am guessing) to convert from outs to runs.  The average of the two ratings, once the conversion is done, would likely be a more accurate representation than either rating. 

Ask and you shall receive:
Player     Average 
Patterson 13.2
Beltran 11.7
Pierre 9.2
Damon 6.4
Anderson 6.3
Granderson 6.1
Taveras 5.7
Cameron 5.6
Wells 5.6
Byrnes 4.8
Edmonds 4.2
Gathright 3.4
Duffy 2.6
Figgins 1.9
Sizemore 1.9
Baldelli 1.6
Clark 0.9
Rowand 0.1
Finley -0.1
Crisp -0.8
Hunter -0.8
A. Jones -1.3
Matthews -3.6
Kotsay -5.3
Sullivan -6.1
Lofton -7.4
Griffey -14.3

[Insert another comment expressing surprise at Sarge Jr.'s Gold Glove.]
Jordan - Sunday, December 10 2006 @ 09:14 PM EST (#160555) #
"When a guy talks about coming to our place where he has a chance to win and compete against the Yankees and the Red Sox," Ricciardi told USA Today, "and then he goes to a place like Kansas City, that's an eye-opener."

Shut up, JP.
Mick Doherty - Monday, December 11 2006 @ 03:52 PM EST (#160600) #

Jamey Newberg reports that the Rangers have signed Kenny Lofton. This does not affect the Catalanotto compensation ranking.

Makes sense for the Rangers. Lofton for one year, then next year go hard for one of the DFW natives, Vernon Wells or (as I understand their preference) Torii Hunter to come play at home.

Mike Green - Monday, December 11 2006 @ 04:41 PM EST (#160604) #
Thanks, Rob, for performing the centerfield calculations.  I checked Baseball's Prospectus' FRAA statistic against the composite Dial/Pinto.  There is a pretty good correlation now.  The Beltran, Griffey Jr., Kotsay, Lofton and Matthews Jr. ratings seem to be roughly right.  FRAA does not not like Pierre, Damon or Vernon Wells as much as the other two. 
Ron - Tuesday, December 12 2006 @ 03:54 AM EST (#160639) #
It's looking like the Braves are going to non-tender Marcus Giles. While his BA and OBP have dropped 4 straight seasons, I would love to see the Jays grab him. I don't want to see Hill moved to SS, but a middle IF of Hill and Giles is a lot better than Hill and Clayton. This is a great time to buy low on Giles. If I was the Jays GM, I would even offer him a 3 year contract.
Mike Green - Tuesday, December 12 2006 @ 09:57 AM EST (#160645) #
Speaking of Hill at shortstop, David Pinto now has released wonderful fielding graphs for all 2006 major leaguers.  Here is Hill's. What it shows is that Hill's fielding at short last year was essentially fine.  Average, as it always has been.  Hill is better than average on the ball in the hole, a little worse than average on the ball up the middle.  Last year, he wasn't as good as usual on balls right at him, but that is the most likely thing to be a fluke (choppers with fast runners, hit and run plays where he has the coverage...)

Similar graphs are available on Pinto's site for 2004, but not for 2005. 
Jonny German - Tuesday, December 12 2006 @ 11:01 AM EST (#160650) #
I also think Giles would be a good acquisition, but I don't think the Jays should wait for the Braves to non-tender him. Trading for him will cost a prospect who isn't Lind or Snider, and they'd be comitted to 1 year at about $5M. If he is in fact non-tendered the chances of him choosing Toronto over Boston or San Diego are slim, and even if it did happen it'd be for a lot more in dollars and years.
Mike Green - Tuesday, December 12 2006 @ 11:41 AM EST (#160654) #
I suppose that it isn't a great surprise that I'm with Jonny and Ron on this one.  Marcus Giles on a 1 year contract for about $5 million, after a trade involving a prospect other than Lind or Snider,  makes sense to me.  I might hesitate if Thigpen were asked for, but I suspect that it would be a pitcher. 
actionjackson - Tuesday, December 12 2006 @ 05:46 PM EST (#160677) #
Mike Green, thanks for pointing out those fielding graphs. They're awesome. One interesting observation: I always thought Derek Jeter was excellent at flagging down popups, but the graphs seem to indicate otherwise. In fact, if I'm reading them correctly he is below average on popups. I knew about his difficulties to his left on groundballs, but he always seemed to be able to make the play on the popup, no matter where it was hit. This is groundbreaking stuff and it demonstrates concretely how "webgems" and "HONs" and our own eyes can definitely distort the truth. One question: how are the predicted outs determined? They seem to be unique to each player and it looks like each player is competing against himself, rather than a league average for the position.
James W - Tuesday, December 12 2006 @ 05:55 PM EST (#160679) #
It is my understanding that "predicted outs" are based entirely on the types of balls in play in each fielder's range.  For instance, a pop up right to the shortstop probably counts 1.0 predicted outs, while a slow grounder in the hole counts a small number (maybe 0.03?) of predicted outs, etc.
Rob - Tuesday, December 12 2006 @ 10:42 PM EST (#160716) #
is anyone else surprised that the Jays seem to be opting for Jason Smith rather than Chris Gomez as the infield utility man?

No, I was more surprised that here it is, four days later, and I am only learning about the acquisition of Jason Smith now. Was the Rule 5 Draft conducted in some secret underground headquarters this time, far, far away from Waterloo?

Smith's defense is inconclusive according to MinorLeagueSplits.com, with 116 plays above average per 150 games in 233.2 innings at third, but -87 at 2B and -200 at SS in about one-fifth of the sample size. This also leaves four infielders for the SS and backup spot -- Adams, McDonald, Clayton, and Smith. If you believe that 3B total, I guess it bodes well if Glaus needs a day off. Those quartet's hitting numbers are depressing, though, and I really don't want to acknowledge that the best hitter is Russ Adams, who won't even sniff a starting spot.

The idea seems to be that Jason Smith bats left, whereas Gomez bats right.

Adams bats left as well, but from where I sit, Smith is Russ Adams with slightly more power and defensive versatility. Of course, this means one of Clayton or McDonald is the starting shortstop for Your Fighting Jays. (Are we sure Royce Clayton hasn't changed agents lately and the deal is off? No? All right, fine.)

Fun side note: Smith was traded along with Manny Aybar to the D-Rays for Fred McGriff. This is uneventful by itself, but take a look at the players McGriff has been traded for and try to spot which of these pairings is not like the other:
1) Dale Murray, Tom Dodd
2) Joe Carter, Roberto Alomar
3) Manny Aybar, Jason Smith
actionjackson - Wednesday, December 13 2006 @ 01:35 AM EST (#160740) #
Don't forget about the trade from San Diego to Atlanta for such luminaries as Melvin Nieves, Donnie Elliott, and Vince Moore. Ouch!!! Let's see... three nobodies for someone who should be much closer to Cooperstown than he will end up because writers get hung up on numbers like 500 homeruns and a .300 batting average. He's definitely a borderline case, but he won't even be looked at.
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 13 2006 @ 10:01 AM EST (#160761) #
Actionjackson, David Pinto's Probabilistic Model of Range is also park-adjusted.  That means that there will likely be a different number of "predicted outs" for groundballs for infielders depending on the playing surface, and a different number of "predicted outs" by pop-up depending on the extent of foul territory in the park.
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