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Jeff Blair says it's a done deal with the Jays and Zaun. Two years, $7.25 million, with an option for a third year based on games played. (thanks to China fan for the heads up)

JP Ricciardi confirmed the Zaun signing today.


Zaun returns to the Jays after the agreement the team thought they had with Rod Barajas fell apart. The Star reports that Barajas refused to take a physical, not because he was worried he would pass, but "sources in Texas said that while Barajas was pleased to be joining the Jays as their No. 1 catcher, the money made him balk at the physical, and thereby nullify the deal."
Jays' New Catcher, Same as the Old Catcher | 215 comments | Create New Account
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China fan - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 08:59 AM EST (#159127) #

  Jeff Blair now says it's an official done deal.  Two years at $7.25-million plus an option for a third year at $3.75-million depending on the number of games played by Zaun in the next two years.

  http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061128.wsptzaun28/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home

Craig B - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 09:31 AM EST (#159131) #

The distinct implication in this morning's Star, from Griffin as well as others, is that the union scuppered the Barajas deal because it involved Barajas taking a pay cut (which it did).  I'm usually skeptical whenever whispers of The Evil Union manifest themselves, but you have to admit, this has been a strange saga.

China fan - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 10:40 AM EST (#159141) #

    So it turns out that the Jays would have saved $2-million (over two years) if Barajas hadn't cancelled the deal.   The Zaun deal is exactly $2-million more than the Barajas deal.  Now I think we can understand JP's logic a bit better.  He saw Barajas as being roughly as good as Zaun (more power and better defence and younger, but worse OBP) and saw a chance to save $2-million by signing Barajas.  For some bizarre reason, Barajas apparently wasn't talking to his agent and was apparently shocked to realize that his agent had negotiated a deal for a pay cut.  (What, they didn't have cellphones?  they weren't talking to each other?  Barajas and his agent look like idiots on this one.)  So at the last minute, Barajas cancelled the deal, and JP scrambles fast to sign Zaun at the cost of an extra couple million.

     You've gotta give some credit to JP on this one, for his flexibility and his nimble ability to shift gears at the last minute.   But I still think Zaun needs a platoon partner, and Phillips is not really ideal.   What if Molina is still available in January and his cost becomes affordable?  Zaun would blow a gasket -- again.  But it might be best for the Jays.  Their catcher tandem last year was an ideal offensive force, and Molina and Zaun would strengthen the bench as pinch-hitters and back-up DHs for Frank Thomas on his off-days.

Jordan - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 10:42 AM EST (#159142) #

It's at times like these that we should remember the words of one of the great balladeers of our time, the immortal Richard Marx:

'Cause it don't mean nothin', the words that they say

Don't mean nothin', these games that people play

No, it don't mean nothin', no victim, no crime

It don't mean nothin', till you sign it on that dotted line.

All the media reported that the Barajas signing was a done deal, and even Gregg Zaun felt sufficient closure on his Jays career that he could fire some parting shots at the front office. But this is a good reminder that until the guy shows up at the press conference and tries on the jersey for the cameras, it's all speculation. For all the dime-store psychology on display here yesterday (especially mine), it was all about the dollars in the end. It always is, really.

I'm happy to have Zaun back, because he's the better offensive player and blocks the plate as well as anyone else in the game. But my "starting pistol" description of his inability to control the running game still stands, and I'd really like to see his backup (or platoon partner) be a strong defender, rather than, say, Bengie Molina.

This deal ended up costing the Jays about $2M more than they had planned to spend on the catcher position. We'll soon see if that has any effect on the club's ability to fill the remaining holes in the middle infield and starting rotation. I would think not, but this has been a bad off-season for assumptions.

Pistol - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 11:01 AM EST (#159147) #
Zaun's deal is only $1 million more per season than Barajas.  That shouldn't have that much of an impact on signing other players.

My spreadsheet says that the Jays payroll is just under $80 million at the moment.  Even if the Jays have a $90 million payroll they can do enough tricks (bonuses) to fit in both a starter and middle infielder.

Wildrose - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 12:46 PM EST (#159175) #
What this whole saga shows for me   is just how difficult it is to measure the relative value of a catcher.

The offensive side of the equation is fairly easy. Using Hardball Times runs created, Zaun over the course of 400 plate appearances (roughly 100 games) if (?)  he hit like he did last year,  would produce about 50 runs, Barrajas about 38 runs. That's a fair difference.

On the defensive side of this equation measurement becomes quite murky ( I note Dewan in the Fielding Bible doesn't even bother with catchers). Barrajas is reputed to be a better thrower than Zaun, but by how much? So many factors enter into the situation, how do you apportion blame or credit? Difficult stuff.

I think Magpie is on the right track, with all the play by play data out there, I'd love to see which catcher blocked the most pitches in the dirt,   blocked home plate etc...

At any rate, there seemed to be a lot of certainty of opinion expressed yesterday about the relative merits of Zaun and Barrajas, most of it unsubstantiated. I'm glad Zaun is back, I respect  him as a player and a person.



China fan - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 01:10 PM EST (#159180) #

  Here's the link to the Boston Herald article which speculates on Texas trading for Vernon Wells:  http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=169391

   It actually suggests that Texas might trade Michael Young for Wells -- which would certainly solve the SS problem anyway, though it does nothing for the pitching problem.

   But if this rumor was true, JP surely wouldn't be bidding hard for Adam Kennedy, as he is.  Kennedy would be a complete waste of money if Young was acquired and Hill shifted back to 2B.   So I'm inclined to be skeptical of the Herald story.

   By the way, the Toronto Star reports today that the Cardinals are now the frontrunners in the bidding for Kennedy, with the Jays and Padres still in the game.

   

Jordan - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 01:50 PM EST (#159185) #

[T]he Toronto Star reports today that the Cardinals are now the frontrunners in the bidding for Kennedy, with the Jays and Padres still in the game.

Turnabout is fair play -- the Cards thought they had AJ Burnett in the bag last winter, only to have the Jays scoop him up, so there'd be a certain parallelism if Kennedy ended up in St. Louis. I'd be happy to see Kennedy as a Jay, but it wouldn't break my heart to see him land elsewhere.

Mick has been adamant in these parts that the Rangers will not trade Michael Young, so I'll assume that the Herald story is way off base. Tell you what, though, if Texas offered me Young for Wells, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Conflicting reports out of Boston -- one says the Red Sox are closing in on Julio Lugo, the other says they've cooled on him considerably and that the Mets and Dodgers are now the frontrunners. In neither case are the Jays mentioned, so I'll probably have to give up any hope of seeing Lugo patrolling shortstop for the Jays.

The other buzz in Boston, reflected in the Herald article, is that JD Drew (or "Nancy," as his Dodger teammates apparently referred to him), is close to joining the Red Sox, and that that might finally mean a Manny Ramirez trade. I don't care how many players the BoSox could buy with the money saved in any Manny trade -- any deal that gets Ramirez out of a Boston uniform is A-OK with me. The Red Sox are almost certain to be a weaker team next year if they trade Manny. Go Theo!

Pistol - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 02:09 PM EST (#159191) #
There's 4 decent free agent 2B options:

Ray Durham, 35, 5.0 WARP (in 2006)
Adam Kennedy, 31, 4.5 WARP
Ron Belliard, 32, 3.1 WARP
Mark Loretta, 35, 2.3 WARP

I think Kennedy would probably offer the most bang for the buck.  Being the youngest and LH doesn't hurt either.  Durham sounds like he'll be out of the Jays price range, Belliard looks like he's developing a weight problem, and Loretta has declined the last two years.
robertdudek - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 02:25 PM EST (#159192) #
I will maintain until my dying day that Zaun's SBA/CS numbers in 2006 were largely a function of the pitching staff.

It is well known that if the pitcher is timed from his first move to the the time the ball reaches the catcher, and it is about 1.7 seconds or greater, then a competent base stealer should steal the base every time.

To back this up, consider that Molina last year was only marginally better at throwing out runners than Zaun, and Molina had some of the best SBA/CS numbers in the league when he was with the Angels. Watching the games, it is apparent that Molina still has a lightning quick release. Zaun's is marginally slower.

Before people read too much into these comments, I am NOT claiming that the pitchers MUST speed up their delivery. There may be good reasons for having pitching motions vulnerable to the stolen base in individual cases, but we must recognize that, if so, there is a tradeoff at work here.


robertdudek - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 02:27 PM EST (#159193) #
I just hope Zaun is professional, and doesn't try and play in as many games as possible to get that option, unless he's contributing

I didn't know they also made Zaun the manager. It is my understanding that Mr. Gibbons makes out the lineup card.
Mike Green - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 02:29 PM EST (#159196) #
The 2006 WARP figure for Kennedy comes with a couple of caveats, one positive and one negative.  Baseball Prospectus'  WARP figures use their "Fielding Runs Above Average" (FRAA) statistic.  The 2006 FRAA shows Kennedy as +11.  Unfortunately, this is not consistent with other available metrics (Dial rating, Pinto's PMR) which show him as -7.  That's almost a 2 win swing.  Kennedy was a fine fielder in his 20s.  On this point, all the metrics agree.  Whether there was an age 30 decline (associated it seems with a loss of quickness) can be debated.  My guess is that a 2 year average probably reflects better his defensive performance.  Dial has him at  0 over 2005-06; BP has at +6.  Still different (and I prefer Dial), but close. 

On the other side, Kennedy had his worst offensive year in five last year at age 30.  Some improvement towards his previous form can perhaps be expected. 

huckamaniac - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 02:31 PM EST (#159198) #
According to Ken Rosenthal the D-Rays might be looking at Kennedy as well. Maybe the Jays could look for a deal with the Indians. With their acquisition of Josh Barfield, they've got Jhonny Peralta at Short plus Hector Luna and Joe Inglett as middle infielders.
King Ryan - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 02:43 PM EST (#159203) #
Robert, I feel the need to point out that Bengie Molina's numbers had declined with the Angels too.

In 2002 and 2003 he was among the league leaders with a 44-45% CS rate.  Then, in 2004 it dropped to 26%, and 31% in 2005.  I pointed this out on the day the Jays signed him: If they were expecting a good defensive catcher, they were going to be disappointed.

Now, those numbers are still not as bad as the one he put up with the Jays (18%,) and this does nothing to invalidate your overall point, but I just wanted to correct that one detail.
robertdudek - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 02:51 PM EST (#159206) #
King Ryan,

Point taken. But if Bengie's CS rate goes up to 30% in 2007, will we hear stories about how his arm has been resurrected? I think not. For all we know that decline was due to the Angels changing pitching staff composition. K Escobar is a name that comes to mind.

Pistol - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 03:29 PM EST (#159214) #
Kennedy is apparently close to signing with the Cards although three years and $10 million sounds too low.  I would think the Jays would be willing to trump that offer, either in years or average annual salary.  I think a 3 year, $12.5 million deal would be quite reasonable.

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 03:34 PM EST (#159215) #

Not to beat a dead horse, but given that about 20 posts in this thread have commented on some fantasy of a Wells-for-Young trade (and some people seem to think it's actually a "rumor" of some sort), let me reiterate ...

This ain't happening, not unless the Jays "throw in" Roy Halladay or make some other equally unlikely over-offer. Young is a fixture in Texas. Nobody, ever, is "untradeable" but it would take a "Jeter and Wang and here's some cash, too" type of offer -- in other words, the offer would need to be the kind of offer the other team would essentially never make. 

Which, of course, ain't happening.

Jordan - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 03:39 PM EST (#159218) #
If the Cards get Kennedy for $10M/3, that's the steal of the off-season. I agree that won't be what he eventually ends up with.
Mike D - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 03:51 PM EST (#159219) #
Kennedy turned down more money from the Jays to sign with St. Louis.  World Series champs, the franchise that drafted him, a city he already knows...can't begrudge the man.
Jevant - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 03:59 PM EST (#159222) #

At least it's a reasonable contract.

I realize that Kennedy gave a hometown discount, but 3.33/year isn't much at all.  There's no way Lugo is worth 8.  Perhaps he might realize that now.  If nothing else, this might help keep some skyrocketing costs a little lower.  I'm warming up to offering Lugo a 4/24 deal, with flexibility to go up a bit. 

My early comments remain on Loretta though.  JP - please stay away. 

robertdudek - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 04:10 PM EST (#159226) #
It seems that catchers and middle infielders are underated in this market, and outfielders and pitchers overrated. We'll see if that continues.
Ron - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 04:18 PM EST (#159229) #
I wonder if the Players Union gave Kennedy an earful. That contract is way too low for a player of his calibre in todays marketplace. I have to believe other GM's that are going after middle infielders will now bring up his contract. The Kennedy contract has jumped to 2nd on my list of best bargains during this off-season (I have Cat's contract as the best bargain).

I just finished watching the whole Frank Thomas press conference and it was mentioned he has donated $50,000 to the Jays care foundation. I believe AJ and Ryan did the same thing.

Mike Green - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 04:30 PM EST (#159231) #
Michael Young's 2006 defensive numbers (both using BP's FRAA and Dial's Zone-Rating based system) were much improved from 2004-05.  It might be a belated improvement after the position change, or it might be that the change from Alfonso Soriano to Ian Kinsler at second had something to do with it. 

It is funny that both Jeter's and Young's defensive numbers took an immediate leap when Soriano departed. Part of this results, I think, from attribution of double play ineffectiveness.  The usual practice at least from BP is to give credit (or blame) to both middle infielders equally on the 4-6-3 or 6-4-3.  In Jeter's case, his double plays turned took a noticeable dip when Soriano arrived and a noticeable rise when he left.  Young turned almost 20% more double plays last year with Kinsler than he had with Soriano. 

None of this has anything to with the Wells for Young rumours or the Wells to LAA rumours.  I guess the only relevance to the previous discussion is that if Julio Lugo could be a statistically modestly above average shortstop with Jorge Cantu beside him, that might be an underselling of his capabilities once paired with Aaron Hill.

robertdudek - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 05:27 PM EST (#159235) #
If either Burnett or Halladay miss significant time in 2007 the Jays can forget about contending.
melondough - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 06:58 PM EST (#159246) #

JP missed his spot on the fan590 at 6:15pm this evening and  had a rep tell the fan that he is entertaining a free agent this evening.  I have a strong feeling he is going to make a move very soon (i.e. tonight) regarding another free agent.  Godfrey was nice enough to become an "emergency fill in" (after some on-air complaining from the shows host).  He said that according to the people he spoke to, Barajas' agent was the one who told his client that there was too much money out there to take the Jays offer.  Mr. Godfrrey went on to say that Bengie's agent told him to do something similar last year and it cost his client $13 million (i.e. missed out on a 3 yr $18 million deal).

I can't quite understand how Barajas' agent could accept an offer and then tell his client to decline it - seems strange.  Maybe it was the new agent that said it was not enough.  I think his advice will really cost Barajas.

Pistol - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 08:23 PM EST (#159254) #
It certainly sounds like Rod Barajas reneged on his "deal".

From a MLB.com article:
"Where I come from, your word means something and your handshake means something," Ricciardi said. "Unfortunately in this case, it didn't. I'll leave it at that. We had more than a handshake."

Mike Forbes - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 09:07 PM EST (#159259) #

Good chance it's either Meche or Padilla... And please don't compare Meche with Towers, it's an unfair comparison. Meche can supposedly throw 98 MPH when completely healthy, which he was for the first time this past season (Take that as both a good thing and a bad thing). Towers meanwhile barely throws 90 MPH and just came off a season where his ERA was in the 9's... Meche may not be a star of any sorts, but I got a good feeling that he's much better than Josh Towers.

timpinder - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 10:29 PM EST (#159267) #

I really hope the Jays don't sign Gil Meche, unless they somehow manage to sign him to a one-year contract and get a real starting pitcher during next year's offseason.

Meche's numbers last year were pretty much consistant with his career average:  4.65 ERA, 1.44WHIP, 4.01 BB9, 6.35 K9, 1.20 HR9, and he has a poor health record.  Expect the ERA and definitely the already unimpressive HR9 rates to go up at the Roger's Center.  If Meche signs for something like 3/24, it will handicap the Jays for the next three years.  If the payroll remains the same and barring major trades, your team will be the same for quite a while, because the removal of Wells, Koskie, Hinske and Towers off the books next year will probably only cover the raises some players are getting in their contracts, and others will be getting though arbitration.  If they're going to commit to a pitcher for a multi-year contract then they should spend more money and get somebody who's proven, or wait until the deep crop of starting pitchers comes on the market next year.  I will not be happy if they sign Meche.  Not at all.  I'm just having visions of J.P. dumping him on some other small-market team at the trade deadline with the Jays picking up all but $2 million of the $15 million left on his contract. 

In my opinion they should either trade Wells for a starting pitcher and buy an outfielder, or wait until next year to buy a starting pitcher.

melondough - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 10:37 PM EST (#159268) #

Just wondering how many of you would prefer the Jays sign:

Gil Meche http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4105

or

 Jeff Weaver http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4039

If you picked Meche, would your answer change if Weaver could be had for  between $2 to $3 less per yr?

Jonny German - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 10:49 PM EST (#159271) #
And please don't compare Meche with Towers, it's an unfair comparison.

How is it unfair? What difference does it make if Meche can throw 98 when completely healthy? You say yourself he was completely healthy this past season and at best he was league average - a 97 ERA+ in 187 innings.  I say "at best" because as has been noted he benefited greatly from pitching 88 of those innings at Safeco (3.76 ERA as opposed to 5.14 ERA on the road). I care not if he's healthy or if he has a speedy fastball when there's little evidence he can effectively retire Major League hitters. Unlike Burnett, another guy whose contract recognizes his stuff, Meche does not boast a good strikeout rate, good control numbers, or the ability to keep the ball in the yard.

To compare with what a healthy Gil Meche accomplished in 2006 (97 ERA+ in 187 innings)... a healthy Ted Lilly had a 109 ERA+ in 182 innings in 2006, and a 120 ERA+ in 197 innings in 2004. A healthy Josh Towers had a 120 ERA+ in 209 innings in 2005. A healthy Gus Chacin had a 119 ERA+ in 203 innings in 2005. A healthy Vicente Padilla had a 104 ERA+ in 200 innings in 2006, a 114 ERA+ in 209 innings in 2003, a 116 ERA+ in 206 innings in 2002.

It appears JP is on the bandwagon... here's hoping somebody else offers Meche more than JP is willing to pay.
greenfrog - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 10:58 PM EST (#159272) #
Weaver was pretty awful with St. Louis (although marginally less terrible than for the LAA) before the playoffs came around. He wasn't too bad in 2004 and 2005, though.

I just can't get excited about Meche. I guess the pluses are that he's young, throws relatively hard, and had an OK year last year (although he fell off the wagon in the second half). Maybe he could turn into a right-handed Lilly, sort of. But he just doesn't seem to be that good overall.


Ryan Day - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 11:03 PM EST (#159273) #
Meche doesn't look like a great choice, but I think he might be better than some people are giving him credit for. No, his numbers weren't great in 2006, particularly when you consider the park. But he was a pretty darn good pitching prospect before he got injured, usually striking out around a batter per inning in the minors. And he made some significant improvements in 2006: He gave up fewer hits, fewer walks, and more strikeouts per 9 than he had in the previous two seasons.

  So is this as good as he gets? (Admittedly, nothing spectacular, but useful if he doesn't cost too much.) Or is he on his way back to being the pitcher everyone thought he could be 6 years ago?

Wildrose - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 11:08 PM EST (#159275) #
Blair on Meche. This is  guy is a scouts pick,  great stuff, poor results. Everybody thinks they can turn him around with a few mechanical adjustments. Who knows?
Paul D - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 11:19 PM EST (#159277) #
What difference does it make if Meche can throw 98 when completely healthy? You say yourself he was completely healthy this past season and at best he was league average - a 97 ERA+ in 187 innings.  I say "at best" because as has been noted he benefited greatly from pitching 88 of those innings at Safeco (3.76 ERA as opposed to 5.14 ERA on the road).

Isn't ERA+ park adjusted?  In which case it doesn't matter where he pitched?

And an ERA+ of 97 is average for a starting pitcher (roughly, migth even be a bit above average).
Jonny German - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 11:35 PM EST (#159280) #
Isn't ERA+ park adjusted?  In which case it doesn't matter where he pitched?

It's park adjusted, but I don't know how precisely - If it simply takes Meche's overall ERA and compares it to the average ERA at Safeco it's a little misleading to say he had a 97 ERA+ overall, when in fact it may have been more like 110 at Safeco and 90 on the road.

I don't dispute that there is substantial value in a starting pitcher with a 97 ERA+. I do dispute the wisdom of signing Meche over Lilly or Padilla (unless he's substantially cheaper), I think his home run rate is a recipe for disaster in the RC, and he's got an injury history.
Marc Hulet - Tuesday, November 28 2006 @ 11:36 PM EST (#159281) #
The thing you have to remember about Meche is that he will only be 28 next year... Pitchers - especially power pitchers - normally do not hit their stride until age 29 or so. With Meche, you get a player with a 90-95 mph fastball and a plus curve and show-me change. He has a lot of experience.

Schmidt doesn't want to play on the east coast and bidding is already at least $11 million for him. Padilla has personal demons and an attitude problem and has never reached his potential. Lilly is going to sign with whomever offers him the most money, plain and simply and his concentration is not always there. It was this year, with the contract on the line. But a four or five year deal will solve that.

Meche is a solid No. 3 pitcher with the stuff to be a No. 2 if he can learn to be a bit more of a pitcher and also harness his control.
Dave Rutt - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 05:58 AM EST (#159287) #
There's an article up at the hardballtimes about Bill Hall, and how he seems to be the odd man out on the Brewers (or, at least, they have adequate replacements at every position). Apparently he plays a pretty good shortstop, too. What do you think the Brewers would want for him?
JohnL - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 07:22 AM EST (#159288) #
Today Blair reports that "Aaron Hill seems to be destined to stay at second for the Blue Jays", suggesting the Jays might even go for a "stop-gap" solution like Royce Clayton. He quotes Ricciardi as saying "We've always said we see Aaron as a potential Gold Glove second baseman."
Mark - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 07:43 AM EST (#159289) #
I know I've said it many times here but keeping Hill at 2B is really the best option. I agree that Hill can be a GG second baseman. At SS, he is average at best. With the add of Thomas and bringing back Zaun the Jays have a line-up 1-8 that holds it's own with any team. A strong defensive SS will make them one of the better defensive teams in the league. (Their outfield D is awesome with 3 center fielders) And a bench of Lind, Johnny Mac, Phillips, and Rob Cosby will be adequate and cheap.

There is another option for back-up catcher. GQ, who hit .359 .428 .787 in Triple A Tacoma this year, is a minor league free agent. Unless I missed his signing with another team. Just a possibility.
Jordan - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 11:35 AM EST (#159301) #

Royce Clayton has become a journeyman -- if he joined the Jays, they'd be his sixth team in the last five years. In his youth with the Giants and Cardinals, he could pick it -- he was a standout defensive shortstop and an aggressive (though not very successful) base-stealer. But as his 30s have progressed, he's lost a step or two -- his RF and FP have been declining to league-average or lower levels for years now, and Defensive Win Shares placed him well-below average among NL shortstops last year. He hits a pretty empty .260 and his speed has eroded.

In short, he's a true stopgap measure -- he could be had for about $1M a season, and I doubt he'd get more than that from the Jays. If JP does indeed have about $11M left to spend, and he wants to either bring back Lilly or sign Meche, then that's going to cost him most of that, so $1M for a shortstop seems about right. I'd love to have Lugo, but at this point, it looks like a pretty simple choice: Lugo or Lilly/Meche. As much as I think that a Lugo-Hill middle-infield combo would do wonders for the entire pitching staff, I can't countenance the thought of, say, Chacin, Marcum and Towers starting 60% of Toronto's games in 2007. Lilly/Clayton or Towers/Lugo? It's not really much of a choice. At least Aaron Hill won't be playing out of position.

The Blue Jays have been interested in Meche as far back as JP's arrival with the team -- his name has come up almost as often as Tony Armas Jr. or Randy Wolf when the subject turned to other teams' pitchers. There are plenty of reasons to stay away from Meche -- the injury history, the wildness, the homer-proneness, the post-All-Star fade, and the inconsistency. But his 2006 stats show a real change: his K rate climbed significantly, but so did his GB/FB ratio -- for the first time, he yielded more grounders than flyouts. Opposing batters' line-drive percentage dropped, indicating they're not getting great swings on him. Like AJ Burnett, the Jays think Meche is a real talent who was rushed to the big leagues, struggled with injuries, and is just now hitting his prime.

Signing Meche would unquestionably be a gamble, just like signing Burnett was. But the Blue Jays have to take these kinds of gambles -- they're simply not in the market for the likes of Zito, Schmidt, and especially Matsuzaka. They can either sign proven league-average types -- a staff full of Cory Lidles and Miguel Batistas -- or potential breakout candidates. JP seems to think that league-average pitchers aren't enough to win the AL East and advance very far in the playoffs; I think he's right. Even Lilly, were he brought back, would be expected to take it up a notch -- improve his focus and start delivering the kinds of results that his stuff (which really is stellar) have always promised. 

JP has been wrong about a number of things in his tenure as GM, but he doesn't usually go wrong evaluating talent, especially the high-priced kind. If he's sold on Meche's ability to break through, that carries a lot of weight. There's a lot of risk here, and if the Jays do sign Meche and he implodes, there'll be no shortage of evidence available with which to hang JP. But overall, I kind of admire his willingness to supply his own rope.

Jacko - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 12:18 PM EST (#159306) #
Meche:

For some reason, I can't shake the fear that Meche is the new Erik Hanson. 

Zaun:

I hope he realizes that keeping his workload under control and giving up some playing time to Phillips and/or Thigpen is a good idea.  He doesn't have a king-sized ego, so hopefully he will be receptive to the idea of getting regular time off in order to keep him fresh for the entire season.

Jonny German - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 12:36 PM EST (#159308) #

For some reason, I can't shake the fear that Meche is the new Erik Hanson.

We should be so lucky...

Hanson the year before  he came to Toronto: 187 IP, 114 ERA+. Hanson, the 3 years before coming to Toronto: 524 IP, 116 ERA+.
 
Meche, 2006: 187 IP, 97 ERA+. Meche, the past 3 years: 458 IP, 90 ERA+.

SNB - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 12:37 PM EST (#159309) #
Lilly/Clayton or Towers/Lugo? It's not really much of a choice.

Honestly, I'm not sure I agree with that. I think the advantage of Lugo over a league average 2B/SS could outweigh the advantage of having Lilly over a AAAA fifth starter. I do think that Lilly would probably be a prudent signing than Lugo given the team's needs, but I'm not sure how much that extends into the deeper realms of the free agent starting pitcher class. If our options are to sign a mediocre starter and a terrible shortstop vs an outstanding shortstop and a back-of-the-rotation starter, I think it might be a wash. Pitching is so volatile that while I don't like our rotation as is, I don't know if another high-upside, low-downside pitcher will really add all that much stability. I don't think JP's approach should be to throw $10M at whatever pitcher will sign for it; I think if he can get his man for that, okay, and if not, maybe we see a breakthrough from Towers or McGowan or Marcum or Rosario. If we were to sign a Ray Durham or a Lugo, this team would win a lot of games on offense alone, and with our two horses at 1 and 2, it's not like our pitching would kill us in the playoffs.

Basically, I think JP should spend the money on the best player he can get, rather than throwing it away on some schmuk because starting pitching is the bigger need. It is, but throwing a boatload of money at some guy who's going to come in and pull an Erik Hanson or a Joey Hamilton won't put us any closer to the playoffs.
Jordan - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 12:53 PM EST (#159314) #

how much would it take to pry Bill Hall out of Milwaukee

Jeff Sackman at Hardball Times discusses this very question. Hall would be a huge addition for the Blue Jays, but I'm not sure JP has the horses to offer. The Brewers need good young pitching, and the last time they traded with Toronto, they acquired a  boatload of the Jays' young talent. The best the Jays could offer these days would probably be Lind, League, and Marcum or Janssen, and the Brewers don't really need another outfielder. They can probably find other teams with more major-league ready starters to offer anyway. But it'd be nice to see Hall as a Jay, no question.

Mike Green - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 01:13 PM EST (#159321) #
With the Yankees spending $26 million to win the rights to attempt to sign Igawa, it appears that they will not be cutting payroll after all, but rather re-tooling.  I am very impressed with Cashman's decision-making over the last 2 years.  The difference between the payroll of the Yankees and the rest of the league appears to me to be shrinking, and yet, the Yankees look to be a significantly better team this year and for the foreseeable future than they have been the last 2 years.

Robert bet several years ago that the Yankees would make the playoffs 18 of the following 20 years.  He's looking good for it so far.  Sigh.

No one is asking me, but it seems to me pretty clear that Julio Lugo adds more value absolutely than any of the free agent pitching options that are under consideration (Meche, Lilly, Padilla), and will likely involve less expenditure. To win, this club is going to need a young pitcher or two to step.  The best way to have that happen is to put an excellent defence and a good offence behind them.  That part is within reach.  The rest is within the control of the Pitching Fates, which have long proven themselves to be a tad unpredictable. 

Mark - Wednesday, November 29 2006 @ 03:01 PM EST (#159332) #
Here is more info on what went down with Barajas.
Jays' New Catcher, Same as the Old Catcher | 215 comments | Create New Account
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