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This Day in Baseball TDIB: Jays beat Red Sox
Jays stroll into second


The tepid Red Sox, who don't appear to know that Erik Hinske is a pretty good outfielder, were no match for the fighting Jays last night and rolled over to let Toronto move into second place in the East.

Star of the Game: Shaun Marcum threw an absolute gem. He allowed just two singles over eight Innings and struck out ten. Just like the rest of the team, he loves it at home, he's 3-0 with a 2.74 ERA in the RC. Marcum seemed a lot more aggressive last night, throwing strikes and challenging the hitters with his fastball early in the count.

Unsung Hero: Frasor complimented Marcum's effort with a strong ninth, sitting down the heart of the Sox lineup for an easy 1-2-3 Inning.

Boxscore:

Elsewhere in the East: The Yankees managed to get 17 position players into the game during a 12-1 drubbing of Tampa Bay. The health of their players for the playoffs was the bigger story of course. The good news for them is that Mariano Rivera looked good in an Inning of middle relief, the bad news that Randy Johnson will miss his final regular season start because of back spasms.

Bye-Bye: Whilst the talk was of it potentially being Vernon's last home game it was more certain to be the last we'll see of Bengie Molina in a home unfirom at the RC. It could also have been the last glimpse of Cat, Lilly and Speier, I'd be suprised if all three are back next year. I'm pretty sure Zaun the only other potential free agent will return.

Today: McGowan against Bonderman
Posted by Gwyn on Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 08:30 AM EDT.
TDIB: Jays beat Red Sox | 51 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Bruce Wrigley - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 08:37 AM EDT (#155987) #

Frasor's strikeout of Papi to end the game was simply awesome.  This game was a great team effort - it took a lot of fortitude to stay patient against Wakefield and wait him out.  This was a very fine effort from all twelve guys who took the field yesterday - I think everyone contributed something positive.

Boston looked helpless by comparison.

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js_magloire - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 08:45 AM EDT (#155988) #
Everyone enjoy the standings now, because it is possible that we won't finish in second, given the respective team matchups of the Jays and Red Sox (Det, NYY vs. TB, BAL). But the Sox are playing quite awfully. Too bad Doc was injured,he could have propelled us into 2nd :(

On another note, talk about an NFL football team coming to Toronto is flaring up, and I for one think it would be very successful in Toronto - as football is quite popular and the city is big enough with enough fans to support. Now, a lot of CFL fans will hate them, but I don't really care about he CFL. What I don't want to happen is this negatively affecting my (our) beloved Jays....so my question to you is, will an NFL team in Toronto hurt or help the Blue Jays?

On the one hand, the NFL season doesn't really overlap with the baseball season. More enthusiasm for sports is a plus. But will it detract from the baseball market???

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greenfrog - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 08:48 AM EDT (#155990) #
From the AP article on last night's game: "After getting a shaving cream pie to the face during a television interview after the game, manager John Gibbons declined to wipe it off and kept on talking."

Did you not notice something amiss, Gibby?

Seeing Frasor pitch well has been one of the positive signs of late (the resurgence of Rios, Burnett, Chacin, and the emergence of League, are some others).




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Mike Green - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 09:05 AM EDT (#155992) #
The time of the game, 2:03, was also good news.  When Marcum is on, he wastes no time. I am hoping that he gets another shot at the rotation in 2007.
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Ryan C - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 09:06 AM EDT (#155993) #
I was in the 200 level outfield last night and it was a blast.  The Red Sox really have a sad lineup when Manny and Varitek are out.  If I counted correctly there were 5 Jays in the lineup last night (6 counting Reed who came in late) with a Batting Avg over .290.  There were zero Sox who surpassed that particular marker

Nice to see Benji get a dinger in possibly his last ever home game at the Rogers Centre.  Also very happy to see his triple counted as one of the top ten plays of the year.  That made me smile.

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Bruce Wrigley - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 09:12 AM EDT (#155994) #

will an NFL team in Toronto hurt or help the Blue Jays?

I can't imagine how it wouldn't hurt.

(1) The Jays would lose a tenant.  The NFL will not accept the Rogers Centre as a home for a franchise, so a new football stadium would have to be built and the Argos and Tiger-Cats would almost certainly go under. (Possibly taking the CFL with them).

(2) The Jays would stand to lose considerable revenue from luxury boxes and similar high-ticket revenues that would partially drift to the NFL team.

(3) The Jays, already faced with insuperable competition for hearts and minds from the Leafs, would now find themselves facing even more competition, especially from the city's very fickle mass media.

(4) Baseball's most precarious markets (Oakland, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Kansas City, Miami, Tampa Bay area) are markets where there is a very strong and prosperous NFL team with a deep fan base (Raiders, Steelers, Packers, Vikings, Chiefs, Dolphins, Buccaneers).  I recognize Tampa Bay is a possible exception to that, but this is a trend that shouldn't be ignored. 

(5) Finally, there are no tangible or intangible benefits to an NFL team in the city that would help the Jays in any way.  No matter if the negatives are large or small, there are no positives.

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Bruce Wrigley - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 09:13 AM EDT (#155996) #

Mike, I'm pretty sure that with that performance Marcum nailed down his position as the winter book favorite for the fifth starter's slot coming out of spring training.

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Mike Green - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 09:25 AM EDT (#155997) #
There is a quote from Gibbons in today's Star that Marcum's role in 2007 is up in the air. Doug Smith moved over from the basketball beat to do the Star game story presumably in place of Geoff Baker.  I haven't heard whether that move is temporary or not. 
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Jonny German - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 09:42 AM EDT (#155999) #

Nice to see [Bengie] get a dinger in possibly his last ever home game at the Rogers Centre.

He also nailed one in his first Toronto home game. Would he be the first to bookend his Toronto career with homers?

 

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Mike Green - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 09:53 AM EDT (#156000) #
Man, I love baseballreference.com.  I wanted to check out whether Olerud had homered in his first home game with the Jays as I thought he had.  Not only did bbref lead to me the box score showing that he had pinch-hit a single, but it also informed me that Dale Sveum was his cousin. 

I don't think that either Doug Ault or Alvis Woods homered in their last Blue Jay home game, but I'll check that.

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Barry Bonnell - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#156001) #

I was at the game as well and while the atmosphere was great I couldn't feel quite as happy as everyone else seemed to be feeling. Another year, another fall of watching others teams in the playoffs. 2nd place is a hollow victory. 2nd or last doesn't really matter if you aren't making the playoffs.

That said, I think next year will be our year. With an injection of funds I think the Jays will be primed for a serious run at the playoffs.

But April does seem sooo far away...

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China fan - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#156002) #
     The story in the Star was very weird because it said Marcum could get a spot in the rotation next year if Lilly leaves.  The writer apparently doesn't realize that a rotation has five pitchers, not four.  There's plenty of room for Marcum as the 5th starter even if Lilly stays.  
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Mike Green - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#156005) #
My understanding of the Gibbons' quote is that if Lilly returns, there may be a competition for the 5th slot.  Other competitors with Marcum could conceivably include Janssen, Taubenheim, McGowan, Rosario and League. 
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Bruce Wrigley - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#156007) #

Marcum has to be the favorite for that slot though, unless the Jays do decide to switch League from relief (which would be a mistake in my opinion).  I like Janssen a lot, and he has a future with the club, but Marcum has shown more potential in my view.  Yes, it's frustratingly intermittent, but if you were to ask me which guy is more likely to win 12 games for the Jays next season I'd say Marcum.

Marcum has a 2.81 ERA over his last six starts with 12 walks and 29 strikeouts in 32 innings.  That's a cherry-pick, but it's a nice one.

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VBF - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#156008) #
Assuming that the Jays decide not to sign any other starting pitchers, which is another likely possibility. That would bump Chacin to #5, and Marcum and the rest to 6,7,8 of which I have absolutely no problem with.
 
The fact is that somebody is going to get injured next year. Who knows who that is, but it's almost a guarantee. Every deserving team making the playoffs this year had at least one pitcher go down with injury. If Shaun Marcum is your #6 guy, I say that's pretty darn solid. Certainly a rotation that could set the league on fire.
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Geoff - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#156011) #
I'm not sure if this is just a case of smoke blowing in the opposite direction of fire, but you have Wells campaigning to stay in Toronto. Popular opinion seems to have been that it's not the money of concern for him to stay, but the desire to stay (echoed by Godfrey in the article). Sounds to me like so long as he's got the fattest contract on the team now, he'll be ready to sign this winter for somewhere in the neighbourhood of five-six years, with stock in Rogers (for his kids' kids) and a per annum of $15-mil.


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dan gordon - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#156012) #

The Blue Jays have the 2nd best team ERA in all of major league baseball for the month of Sept.  That was prior to last night, so they may be #1 now.  Amazing what good health for your pitchers can do.  Just imagine where they'd be if Burnett, Halladay and Chacin were healthy all year.  I know injuries happen, and it is good to have contingencies, but it shows you how close this team is to being a playoff team.

When you are considering candidates for the rotation next year, don't forget Towers.  Yes, he was terrible this year, but prior to this year, he looked like a serviceable major league starter, with one season (2005), where he was quite good.  His contract has a year to go, and no doubt he will at least get a chance in spring training to demonstrate he can reclaim his form.

Should be an interesting offseason.  I don't think this team is very far from being a post season participant.

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greenfrog - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#156015) #
V-Dub is one of the best players on the team, no question. But I think there's an interesting debate over when the law of diminishing returns kicks in. When does he become too expensive? Of course, it all depends on the payroll, but $75M/5 years is getting pretty high. Especially when the alternative is Rios in centre and (possibly--this is pure speculation) a couple of players like Santana and Aybar in return, and an extra $15M to spend for 2007.

In other words, it's possible we might end up signing Wells, losing several players to free agency, and ending up with a similarly talented team in 2007--despite a significant payroll increase.

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China fan - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#156018) #
  To sign Lilly and another top-quality free-agent pitcher like Meche will cost at least $15-million to $18-million in additional payroll next year (above the money that Lilly was receiving this year).   That's a lot of money, and yet it leaves nothing for Wells, Cat, Speier, and a middle infielder and back-up catcher.   So I find it doubtful that the Jays can do all of this.  I suspect that JP will be happy to sign Lilly or another good-quality starter -- but not both.   If he can sign Lilly, he won't go after Meche etc.   Therefore it is extremely important for the Jays to find at least two reliable starters from among their young pitchers:  Chacin, Marcum, McGowan, etc.   That's why the strong performances by Chacin and Marcum recently are so important.  If both remain solid, it allows the Jays to find money for a middle-infielder, plus Wells and Cat (or another DH), etc.
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China fan - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#156024) #
    In a lot of the discussions about next year's team, people tend to forget about the DH slot, which has been one of the weak points of the Jays lineup for years.  This is one of the key reasons to sign Cat for another season or two.  The outfield seems strong, especially with the strong seasons from Rios and Johnson and the potential emergence of Lind, so Cat could shift over to DH and provide a reliable .300 batting average from that spot.   Still, I'd prefer to see the Jays find someone with more power for the DH spot, if such a player is available.   If we're lucky, Lind will be able to do it, but nobody can count on that.
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Gwyn - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#156026) #
Cat could shift over to DH and provide a reliable .300 batting average from that spot

Cat has made it clear that he doesn't like being a full-time DH.  I doubt if he'll re-sign without some indication that he will have significant playing time in the outfield.   He won't be short of offers this winter if the Jays don't offer him a deal.
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Matthew E - Tuesday, September 26 2006 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#156044) #
<i>On another note, talk about an NFL football team coming to Toronto is flaring up, and I for one think it would be very successful in Toronto - as football is quite popular and the city is big enough with enough fans to support. Now, a lot of CFL fans will hate them, but I don't really care about he CFL. What I don't want to happen is this negatively affecting my (our) beloved Jays....so my question to you is, will an NFL team in Toronto hurt or help the Blue Jays?</i>

First, I don't know where they'd play.

Second, I don't know why the NFL would want to come to Toronto.

But if they did, I don't think it'd hurt the Jays all that much. Might do some damage to the Raptors. I suppose there would be some people who'd have to make a financial decision between Jays season tickets and NFL season tickets.
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TDIB: Jays beat Red Sox | 51 comments | Create New Account
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