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That didn't quite go according to plan.


Chacin was really bad last night, he only lasted 1 1/3 and gave up five runs, for his worst major league start. He looked tentative and out of sorts and was leaving too many pitches up in the zone. Gibby was concerned with Chacin's mechanics noting that he was falling off towards third. These results wouldn't be a surprise as Chacin's record in his rehab starts was anything but encouraging.

Star of the Game:
E______ bleepin' L_____ when he's good, I'm sorry to say, he's very good. You can occasionally see why Gord Ash had such a man-crush on him. Anyway, I'm stopping watching him, every time I do he's brilliant, the last game I saw him pitch was this one.

Unsung Hero
: Milton Bradley and the Big Hurt did most of the damage to Jays pitching, combining for four hits, two dingers and five RBI.

For the Jays: Erm, well, let's see. Scott Downs was pretty good in his 3.1 scoreless Innings. Let's just move on.

Elsewhere in the East: Tampa Bay beat Texas and handed another win to Shawn Camp as he continues his probably futile chase of Oscar Villareal for the major league lead in cheap wins by a middle reliever. Matt Garza had six shutout Innings against the Orioles which was more than enough to allow the Twins to cruise to a four-one win. Chien-Ming Wang took his win total to 15 and lowered his ERA to a highly respectable 3.80 as the Yankees beat up on Seattle and King Felix. Also on the West Coast, Boston ended their losing streak with a 5-4 win over Kelvim Escobar and the Angels.

Ted: Jeff Blair reports that Ted Lilly didn't make it through waivers, surprise surprise, and was claimed by an AL club..."the Toronto Blue Jays were unable to work out a deal with that team, despite submitting a specific player request."

Organisation Chart: The Triple Steal blog has an organisational Chart for the Jays, like the one Will Young put together for the Twins.
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The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#153995) #

Baseball Life Lessons in North Texas:

This week, most around here were "A's get Toronto, which just beat Detroit, while the Rangers paste the hapless Devil Rays -- moving closer to first place before facing off with Oakland, woohoo!"

Um ... not.

Pistol - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#153998) #
Olney spectulated that the Rangers, Red Sox or Yankees were the ones that put a claim in on Lilly.  I'm guessing it was the Rangers (they'd have first dibs) and they didn't like how high the Jays were shooting with the player asked for in return.
jjdynomite - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#154004) #

Well, that was quite possibly the worst game of Your 2006 Toronto Blue Jays (the most heartbreaking one was Bradley off Ryan back on July 30th.  What is it with these A's).  Morpheus getting crushed by Lord Voldemort.  Sigh.

During last night's broadcast, JP was on for a bit, and he said that on August 24, 2005, Josh Towers and Gustavo Chacin had 21 wins combined.  That itself just about sums up this season.

Veteran Bauxites, I need clarification, why is E------ L----- called Lord Voldemort?  Is it just playing on the He Who Shall Not Be Named meme?  But why can't he be named?  The Michael Young trade?  His bad hair styles?  In any case, here is a funny article on "The Wartime Dolphin" (yet another obscure nickname for him).

Magpie - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#154006) #
Well, I'm one of the ones calling him Lord Voldemort. Why? Because it's: a) fun, and b) involves less typing than He Who Must Not Be Named.

And he is evil, right?
Craig B - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#154007) #

why is E------ L----- called Lord Voldemort?  Is it just playing on the He Who Shall Not Be Named meme? 

Basically, yeah.

But why can't he be named?

In general, I think it's because He-Who is the embodiment of evil.  He reminds me of Agrajag, the creature in Douglas Adams's The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, who gets killed by Arthur Dent in every life he ever lives (he is continually reincarnated and then eventually killed by him again).  That's E------ L-----.... he's Dent, and we're Agrajag.

Craig B - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#154008) #
Incidentally... here is the first use of the "He Who Must Not Be Named" nickname... by none other than the fertile (and febrile) mind of Jordan.  We miss you, man.
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#154012) #
Veteran Bauxites, I need clarification, why is E------ L----- called Lord Voldemort?



Esteban Loaiza signs autographs at the Rogers Centre... in blood!
truefan - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#154027) #

Another reason to resent E....L......: 

Although not EL's fault, he was traded from Texas for some guy in the farm system named Michael Young.  The future All-Star.  And if Vernon Wells ends up going to Texas in 08, the EL trade will continue to be paying its rich 'dividends'...

Ron - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#154028) #

A very interesting WWJP last night.

 
- Towers will have to earn a spot in the rotation next season. It won’t be given to him.

He still believes in Towers, especially now his back is against the wall so to speak.

 - A caller talked about JP’s 5 year plan when he took over and about his draft picks. The caller pointed out because he selected mostly College players, we should see some results by now. The caller wasn’t happy with the drafting.

 JP said he’s not even sure he mentioned a 5 year plan when he was hired.

 He completely disagreed with the caller about his drafts. He talked about how the Jays have Russ Adams and Aaron Hill. He asked the caller if he liked Overbay. The caller said yes and JP said he used draft picks to get him. He then mentioned a lot of good young prospects in the farm system like Lind, Snider, Thigpen, Marcum, Janssen, and Ricky Romero.

- Said Chacin was “terrible”. A caller asked him why wasn’t another SP used considering Chacin was awful in his rehab starts. JP said the Jays didn’t have another option.

 - When asked about how teams like the A’s and Twins continue to succeed, JP mentioned the Twins had a long stretch of bad seasons before they were good.

- He once again talked about the realities of the payroll situation. He pointed out the Yanks and Red Sox spend a lot more than the Jays. It’s tough to overcome those teams because they have a huge payroll advantage.

 

Magpie - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#154035) #
[Ricciardi] still believes in Towers, especially now his back is against the wall so to speak.

I was at the park last night, shooting the breeze with someone a whole lot closer to the team than I am. After reminiscing about Pitchers vs Managers of Days Past ("these people should have seen Cito and Sottlemyre go at it"), the subject of Towers came up. The gist of the opinion was:

In some ways, the contract was the worst thing that could have happened. It was great for Josh in most ways, obviously - but he was a different guy from the first day of spring training. No one had ever counted on him for anything before and it got to him. He put all this pressure on himself, trying to be deserving of it. And his stuff is so marginal anyway, he doesn't have the same room for error as other guys. The worse it got, the more he wanted to make it better, and it would get even worse.
Paul D - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#154039) #
No offence Magpie, but I don't see how that quote makes sense.  He wasn't putting pressure on himself when he was battling to obtain a job so he could pay his bills, but now that he's comfortable he's putting more pressure on himself?

Sounds like hindsight to me.

Dave Till - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#154040) #
I was thinking about the Jays' situation last night. In my opinion, the 2006 Jays have many of the features of a championship-quality team: the defense is solid, they have plenty of bats, a world-class closer, a winning attitude, and a couple of really good starting pitchers (now that Burnett has come around). They just have yawning gaps in the starting rotation.

This is much better than the situation in the pre-J.P. era, in which the team had a whole bunch of sorta okay ballplayers. When there is a gaping hole, it's easy to upgrade; when everybody is mediocre, you have to rebuild.

I don't think anybody could have expected the Jays to overhaul both the Sox and Yanks in one year. If Rogers (and J.P.) want to do it, the foundation is now in place to build a top-rank team: attendance is up and many good players are here. It's just a question of whether it's worth it financially to try to make it to the top in a division containing one team with an unlimited payroll.

Bruce Wrigley - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 05:38 PM EDT (#154041) #

No offence Magpie, but I don't see how that quote makes sense. 

Towers has spent a decade determined to prove himself to those who took one look and told him he didn't have what it takes to be a big-league ballplayer.  Which was pretty much everybody.  So when all of a sudden he has run out of challenges to prove himself, and he gets the big contract in recognition of his talent, he suddenly faces a very different challenge, which is to reward the faith that others had put in him.  He hadn't had to deal with it before because no one had ever shown any faith in him before.

Different problem with a very different emotional challenge.  It really is a lot different when someone is counting on you, versus when they're not.

Bruce Wrigley - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 05:41 PM EDT (#154042) #

As for "hindsight", of course it's hindsight.  When you're trying to diagnose what happened to someone, you use hindsight.

This isn't someone thumping their chest and saying, "I KNEW ALL ALONG THAT TOWERS SUXORED, JP IS AN  IDIOT" like the chuckleheads around here do.  This is someone trying to figure out what went wrong, because most of us are mystified as to how he went off the rails.

Dave Till - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 06:39 PM EDT (#154047) #
A radical solution to the Yankee Problem: disallow or restrict salary dump trades, or force the expensive stars to clear waivers first. And, if anybody dumps too much salary, perhaps it's time to find a new ownership group for that team.

Same thing with free agents: the free agent system was intended to increase competitive balance and give players some freedom to choose their career paths. It wasn't intended to allow the Yankees to buy up every player in the league.

I don't expect baseball to do anything about this, though. As I've said before: nobody in baseball really cares about the Jays or the Rays, and everybody hates Angelos. So Toronto is kind of stuck.

As for Towers: the "new kind of pressure" theory makes sense. It's gotta feel weird to be paid millions of dollars to play baseball, especially after scuffling for so long; Towers may well have felt that he had to push himself a little harder. This threw him off a bit - and, since he has marginal stuff, he couldn't afford to lose any of his command.

Joanna - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#154048) #
I think sometimes people who don't have money don't realise that there is a whole set of emotional baggage that is attached to making it big.  Now, I've never met Josh Towers.  I can't read his mind and i don't know what he actually is feeling.  But judging from his body language and the way he was pitching, he pitched like he didn't trust his stuff, that he was giving the hitters too much credit and that he was pitching scared.  And if there was nothing physically wrong with him, it means it's his head.  After struggling to be successful, sometimes success can mess with one's head. Landing a big contract, you better have solid faith in your stuff and truly believe you are worth the cash.  It's almost as if some people are more comfortable being an underdog.  I do hope Towers can pull it together, not just because I hate seeing people struggle emotionally (yes, I'm soft) but because the Jays sure as hell need pitching.
Magpie - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 07:37 PM EDT (#154051) #
It's almost as if some people are more comfortable being an underdog.

It's certainly true that all the success Towers has had in his career has been when he saw himself as an underdog, someone nobody believed in. Certainly not someone others were counting on to succeed.

I also think Towers may be going through... uh, the pitcher's change of life? It happens frequently, generally when a pitcher is  approaching age 30. Their stuff changes slightly. It may get better, it may get worse, it may actually stay at the same level - the point is that it's slightly different from what it was before. This has temporarily messed up pitchers with far more impressive raw tools than Josh Towers.  But for a pitcher who relies entirely on command and control, as Towers does, no longer being quite sure what the ball was going to do after it left his hand would be ... not too pretty.
Pepper Moffatt - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 08:05 PM EDT (#154055) #
"A radical solution to the Yankee Problem: disallow or restrict salary dump trades"

They're already restricted - at least according to the rules.  Almost every salary dump involves cash going in excess of $1 million switching hands.  Any transaction where that takes place has to be approved by the commissioner.

So it would seem that the solution would be to get a commissioner who isn't a complete lapdog of management.  Of course, the last commish to go against ownership was Fay Vincent in 1990 and we all know how long he lasted in the role.
Pepper Moffatt - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 08:32 PM EDT (#154059) #
Dave's comment got me thinking.. what if the commish decided to strictly enforce the rule.  He could come out and say something like:

"I'm tired of you guys signing free agents then dumping them for pennies on the dollar.  From now on, I'll automatically veto any trade which involves a player signed after today and more than $1-million changing hands."

It'd be great optics, since it would get rid of a lot of trades like Abreu to the Yankees and Hinske to the Red Sox, which fans seem to detest.

It'd also have all kinds of fun and interesting unintended consequences.  As a first guess, I suspect it would drive free agent salaries down, as teams would be scared off bidding on guys, knowing that they couldn't dump them later.

It would also likely make the playing field more unequal, since the teams who would now be scared off from signing guys would be the Kansas Cities and Pittsburghs of the world.


Geoff - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 08:35 PM EDT (#154060) #
E_____ L_____ signs autographs at the Rogers Centre... in blood!

NFH, dude, you are probably having a busy day -- but you filled in the blanks there.

Now Batter's Box will be cursed. Or something. Anyone to elaborate on the consequences?
Pepper Moffatt - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#154061) #
"The difference between 35,000 and 50,000 in attendance is actually signficant, I think. Take 15,000 seats x $20 ticket price x 81 home games, and you've got yourself $24.3 million in extra revenue, plus I would guess almost that much again in concession sales (hooray for $10 beers)."

Plus for a regional TV team like the Jays, increasing viewership by the same proportion (40% or so), would mean a ton of extra money.  Have no idea how much, but you'd have to figure it would be a decent chunk of change.
Pistol - Thursday, August 24 2006 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#154066) #
It'd be great optics, since it would get rid of a lot of trades like Abreu to the Yankees

But that's not the case with Abreu.  There was no money changing hands - Abreu just had a big contract that the Phils didn't want to pay. 

You'd probably have to do something similar to the NBA where annual contracts are similar of traded players.

In light of the Jays, and now the Red Sox, commenting recently about competing with the Yankee financial machine I'm starting to think it's posturing for the CBA negiotiations.  The Red Sox have tried to stay just below the luxury tax threshold the last few years.  Perhaps they (and the other 28 teams) want to see the tax jacked up as a way to bring the Yankees back to the pack instead of having to spend to keep up.
Pepper Moffatt - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 08:21 AM EDT (#154074) #
"
But that's not the case with Abreu.  There was no money changing hands - Abreu just had a big contract that the Phils didn't want to pay. "

I could have sworn there was.  Oh well.  You're right - the $1 million doesn't cover this type of situation then.
ken_warren - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#154080) #

An interesting stat:

How often does a bad throw occur that's not called an error but costs the defensive team a base? An example would be a base hit with a man on first. The runner goes to third, the outfielder attempts to nail him, but comes up short, allowing the batter to get to second. This is not ruled an error, but Baseball Info Solutions categorizes this as a defensive misplay. This play, and eight other similar throwing misplays tracked by BIS that cost the defense at least one base but are not ruled as errors, occur about once per game. Quite often.

Here is a complete list of throwing misplays by AL team for 2006 (through August 20).

    Boston Red Sox             42
    Seattle Mariners            44   
    Minnesota Twins           51
    Oakland A's                    52   
    Texas Rangers              55   
    Detroit Tigers               56
    Cleveland Indians         56   
    New York Yankees       59   
    Tampa Bay D'Rays       60
    Kansas City Royals      61   
     Los Angeles Angels     63
    Baltimore Orioles          64   
    Toronto Blue Jays          68   
     Chicago White Sox       71


The defending World Champion White Sox are last among American League teams. White Sox outfielders also have the fewest baserunner kills in the American League with only six thus far on the season. Ozzie Guillen's follow-up class to his "Bunting School" may be "Throwing School."

Craig B - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#154082) #

BIS also tracks a stat called "plus/minus", a stat based on zone rating that tracks players' ability to make plays on balls hit to particular sections of the individual ballpark, and compares them to the average.  These are the same plus/minus stats that John Dewan used in his excellent Fielding Bible published last winter.

AL team plus/minus stats for 2006 to date :

  1. Detroit +66
  2. Toronto +19
  3. Oakland +3
  4. Texas +2
  5. NY Yankees 0
  6. Baltimore -2
  7. Minnesota -7
  8. Chicago WS -7
  9. Kansas City -8
  10. Seattle -12
  11. LA Angels -18
  12. Boston -26
  13. Cleveland -43
  14. Tampa Bay -48

Toronto are +9 on groundballs and +10 on balls hit in the air, the only team to be positive in both numbers (all of Detroit's +66 is in balls hit on the ground... they are at 0 for balls hit in the air!).

China fan - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#154085) #

    Interesting article in the Sun today about the Jays catcher duo.   Despite the widespread moaning about Molina by many Bauxites, the Sun argues that the Jays catchers have been virtually as good (offensively) as the Yankee and Red Sox catchers this year.   An excerpt from the article:

      Between them Molina and Zaun have combined to give the Jays a .271 average with 21 homers, 64 RBIs, 28 doubles and 59 runs scored.  That's on par with what their division rivals New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox have received from their backstops.

  (here is the link:   http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/Toronto/2006/08/25/1775620-sun.html )

       My own impression is that Molina has been something of a clutch hitter for the Jays, often producing timely hits in key situations, and has been not as bad as the criticism would warrant.   Obviously he's not going to be brought back next year at $7.5-million, but does he deserve another chance at a lower salary?  And do we agree with the Sun's argument that the Jays catcher tandem has been as good as the Yankee and Sox catchers?

 

Jordan - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#154086) #

here is the first use of the "He Who Must Not Be Named" nickname

I guess I had my creative moments, back in the day....

Justin Miller? Wow, there's a name from the deep, dark past. I suppose he's operating a truck dealership somewhere these days. 

ayjackson - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#154088) #

My own impression is that Molina has been something of a clutch hitter for the Jays, often producing timely hits in key situations, and has been not as bad as the criticism would warrant.   Obviously he's not going to be brought back next year at $7.5-million, but does he deserve another chance at a lower salary? 

I would prefer not, but would have to see the options.  is Thigpen ready for thirty games if we bring Zaun back?  for me, while i like benji, he is not the defender he once was and he is the slowest thing i've ever seen in my life (though, allegedly, he had an infield single and a triple in the past month - i didn't see the games and am assuming the triple cleared the wall, but benji ran out of gas at third).

Mike Green - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#154091) #
I don't know how I missed this, but Bat-Girl informs me that Joe Mauer's nickname is "Chairman".  Love it.
AWeb - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#154092) #
Between them Molina and Zaun have combined to give the Jays a .271 average with 21 homers, 64 RBIs, 28 doubles and 59 runs scored.

It's incredibly lazy research like above that made me turn to the internet for better sports writing. It's a technically true statement, but doesn't reflect what the Jays have gotten from the catcher position. DH appearances don't count when looking at catcher production. The above numbers are just the season lines added together. It doesn't make much difference in overall numbers, but Toronto catchers (including Phillips) this year are at .270/.335/.443, 19 HR, 59 RBI, 54 Runs.  In 20 seconds on espn.com (love the stats, which means they'll make them "insider" soon):

Boston : .234/.312/.399, 17HR, 76RBI, 58 Runs. Correct, since no Boston catcher would DH over Ortiz, or Manny, or Pena, or even Hinske now.

Yankees : .254/.345/.427, 17, 77, 51. Everyone but Posada has been awful..and in another lazy, lazy writing move, the article has the Yankees catchers with 90 RBI this year, which is including a bit of DH time for Posada, and 10 RBI in the NL from Fasano. Strangely, not a mistake made with the Boston catchers.

So, RBI and Runs are low for the Jays, not surprising given the lineup most nights. Overall, I'd say better than Boston, a wash with the Yankees. And the Sun writer doesn't realize this information is available, apparently. Actually, I remove my lazy complaint. It's actually easier to use ESPN to get the positional totals than to add up the numbers by hand. I'm not sure why it annoys me so much, aside from the fact that they are getting paid to report information, and are reporting incorrect information. And not information of the rumour type, just numbers they can look up on many websites in less than a minute.


Brian W - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#154093) #
The problem with comparing the Jays catchers with those of other teams using counting stats is that the Jays have used Molina as a DH in some games.  However, now that I've checked the splits on ESPN, I'd have to agree that our catchers have at least equalled those of the Yankees and Sox.

Numbers for catcher position:

Team BA  OBP S% OPS  HR  RBI
TOR:  270 335 443 778  19  59
BOS:  234 312 399 710  17  76
NYY:   254 345 427 772  17  77

Craig B - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#154094) #

I suppose he's operating a truck dealership somewhere these days. 

You misspelled "tattoo parlor".

John Northey - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#154096) #
The difference between 35 and 50 k fans per game for the Red Sox.
Attendance = 15k x 81 = 1.215 million
Revenue = $20 x 1.215 million = $24.3 million

For revenue I'm assuming that the other tickets in Fenway would still go for what they go for and that new seats would be cheaper than most others (standing room tickets were $19 each when I went two years ago).  Odds are they'd get more for those new seats but less for others given more supply. 

Even at $30/ticket we're under $40 million extra revenue which, while nice for them, is still not enough to cover 1/2 the ground in payroll between the Yanks and Sox (assuming it all went into payroll).

Magpie - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#154145) #
the really obvious solutions to the Yankees problem

Said this before, but it would also help if the Yankees were sharing their TV money with the rest of the league. Whiuch seems reasonable - they're not broadcasting intra-squad games, after all.


Magpie - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#154146) #
Has this been documented statistically in any way?

There is no data - there are just multiple anecdotes. But it would be an interesting exercise to assemble them.
Pepper Moffatt - Friday, August 25 2006 @ 05:58 PM EDT (#154158) #
"Said this before, but it would also help if the Yankees were sharing their TV money with the rest of the league. Whiuch seems reasonable - they're not broadcasting intra-squad games, after all."

That'd have a similar effect to my idea of putting a second AL team in New York.

I'm not as convinced as I used to be on how effective a strategy this would be, though it would likely have some positive impact.  The payroll disparity isn't entirely driven by differences in revenue - The Yankees only make 78% more revenue than the median team and only 2.4 times the lowest revenue team (Minnesota).  They've also got a 34% gap over the next highest revenue team (Boston); the gap in absolute terms between the two clubs is $70 million.  Those are big figures, but they don't entirely explain the huge payroll gaps between the Yanks and other clubs.

The main difference is that Steinbrenner is willing to lose absolute boat-loads of money to win a championship - $50 million last year alone.  That willingness to take a loss isn't necessarily related to the Yanks huge market - Bill Gates could buy the Marlins, move them to Redmond WA and spend a billion a year on payroll, if he felt like it.

Figures: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Revenues_1.html
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The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.