"It's so comical that I don't know whether to laugh or to throw up."

That may be an appropriate comment to make to a friend or an aside to a co-worker, but to say that to a journalist?  Particularly when one of your jobs as GM is to act in a PR capacity.

It's also completely nonsensical.  Rarely do people express their good humour by vomiting.

Viewed in isolation, last night's incident would warrant the raising of a few eyebrows, but wouldn't necessarily be viewed as remarkable.  But set in the context of the Hillenbrand incident (not the whiteboard remarks, which are Shea's fault entirely, but the rather bizarre set piece which followed in which Hillenbrand was challenged to a fight, and then derided for his cowardice when he wisely declined the invitation to act like a schoolboy with his manager), and combined with the petulance Ricciardi displays in virtually every public statement he makes, all signs point to an organization about as functional as a seventh grade gym class. 

I'm not going to sit and pine for the glory days, as heaven knows the earlier Toronto teams had their own melodramas - Garcia burning his jersey, Bell inviting Jimy Williams to kiss his purple butt, the Wells/Gaston confrontations - but those incidents always seemed like aberrations.  Moreover, management only played a supporting role in these controversies - the players were the ones at the centre of the maelstrom, and management took the responsibility for steering the ship away from trouble, rather than right into it, full speed ahead.  

Why Ricciardi and Gibbons seem predisposed to respond to adversity with taunts and fisticuffs, and generally display a level of maturity that would disgrace a pre-adolescent male, I'm not able to say.  The organization as a whole seems full of enablers (witness Mike Wilner's completely foolish opinion that Gibbons' display of manliness in pursuing Lilly into the tunnel was necessary to keep from losing the support of his players - my wife as much as told me that if that's the message our kids are going to get listening to Blue Jays radio broadcasts, I'm going to be listening by myself), but Ted Rogers is as gentlemanly a person as can be found.  I'd be surprised if he tolerates this much longer. 

I appreciate the improvements in the on-field product that have been engineered in large part by Ricciardi this season, and by no means do I think he's unable to assemble a championship calibre team.   But he's clearly out of his depth as a leader of men, and he needs to be replaced while there's still something to salvage from the talent he's put together. 

Four Seamer, I think you hit the nail on the head. Personally, I think the MOST important part of a manager's (and usually general manager's) job is to be a leader of men. Joe Torre may not be the most brilliant tactician in baseball (or he might be, I'm not syaing either way), but he is a leader, and someone that his players respect. Gibbons is showing to be a little too fiery to be a good manager, and his team does not seem to play FOR him. And don't get me started on Riccardi.

In isolation, things happen, and it's OK. But when things become a pattern, that becomes more of an issue.

     Keep in mind that the CP photographer was an independent witness who had no reason to slant the truth afterwards.  Lilly and Gibbons obviously were under pressure (from the club and from themselves) to pretend it was a minor incident.  I would trust the photographer's version, since he had no obvious bias and no obvious reason to lie.

     Also, keep in mind that Gibbons and Lilly were not denying any physical contact -- they were only denying that punches were thrown.   Actually the CP photographer never said that any punches were thrown.  He said that Gibbons grabbed Lilly and then they wrestled or shoved each other.   I suspect this is an accurate account of what happened, especially since Gibbons and Lilly never denied this version.   And it's a pretty damning account of what happened.  It means that the Jays manager lost his temper and physically clashed with one of his own players.   Gibbons is not solely to blame, of course, but he has a greater obligation (as the manager) to keep his temper and stay calm.  For a manager to engage in a physical conflict with one of his own players -- even if it was a wrestling and pushing match, rather than a full-on punch-up -- is still a terrible indictment of that manager.   Especially when it comes only a month after he challenged another player to a fist fight.   Surely he has to be fired.   The Jays will probably wait until the end of the season to do it, to save face.

My take on the incident is basically identical to that of Tim Keown, who I think gets it right.

I don't mind a little emotion-they are grown men.  Baseball has gotten way too 'politically correct'.  Every minor incident is immensely exagerated because there are cameras everywhere and journalists with nothing to write about.  I'm glad Lily was upset he was taken out.  I'm glad Gibbons took him out and was obviously pissed at him.  A pitcher with Lily's stuff should not blow an 8 run lead-ever-let alone giving almost all of the lead away in 1 inning!  I think most people want a best friend type managing the Jays.  Everybody freaks out over any confrontation or words in the media.  I didn't have a problem with J.P. calling out some of his players in the media either-that stretch of baseball was what put this team behind the 8-ball.  This team definately lacks both a sense of urgency and a killer instinct-not enough guys who hate to lose.

I suppose there is really no use in second guessing, but I'm going to do it anyway.  And I'll probably get yelled at.  But I would've let Lilly try to get out of the inning.  He had one out and a guy on first, and was facing Bobby Crosby (and his big fat .229 avg, .185 vs. lefties).  I would have told Lilly to settle down and make a pitch.  Induce a groundball to your infielders (who were hot last night) and clean up his mess with a double play.  Bottom third, it's 8-5.  Five runs are ugly, but Dan Haren 20 minutes earlier survived and was given the chance to struggle and come out with the win.  And a it's a hell of a lot less distracting.

But anyway, Lilly yelling was unprofessional and immature (but damn fine entertainment!) but I think Gibby needs people skill lessons.  Stop fighting people, Boomhauer!!! You're middle aged!  But I totally want to know what Gibbons said to Doc and AJ afterwards.  They were sitting together and Gibby came and said something.  Reed listened in and looked serious.

I'm interested to see who creates controversy next.  First it was JP calling out his players,  then Shea wanted out of the sinking ship and out of fistfights, AJ battled Gatorade and the dugout phone,  Bengie refuses to accept that he is slow and is so upset about playing time that he refers to himself in the third person.  Eric Hinske, because he is heavy and bad with a bucket (thus of no use on a sinking ship), gets traded to another sinking ship,  Vernon wants out and then doesn't or never wanted out or still wants out and is lying.  And now this.  Who's next to snap?  I'll say JMac.

WIll he pass waivers and be able to go to a National League team?

Reading into it a little bit, if the Mets were interested in Lilly I would think he would have already passed through waivers. 

I can't imagine the Jays not putting him on waivers earlier this month, although it would surprise me if he didn't go claimed.  He's in the last year of his contract with a reasonable salary and has pitched pretty well overall this year.  I'd think there's lots of teams that would be interested, but perhaps not.

It's nice to see Blair back.

Not to mention the fact that they tend to use money as a measuring stick - someone making five million dollars is more worthy than someone making three hundred thousand. More important than the money itself is what the money represents in terms of status and prestige.

Which is why free agents usually sign for the most money.  It's not the money, it's saying I make more than you, therefore I'm better.

And really, aren't we all that way?  If I do the same job as Joe Employee, but I do it better (or at least think that I do it better), and he makes more money I'm going to talk about the lack of respect from my employer, regardless of how comfortable I'm living.  (And that was the primary reason I left my last job.)