Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
I was visiting Montreal sometime in 1995. It was clear that an exodus was underway but my relative Peter was not worried. "We have Guerrero", he told me. I knew about Guerrero then, ran well, a cannon for an arm, good range in right, burgeoning power, and a superior ability to make contact. And 20 years old. Probably as good a prospect overall as Manny Ramirez and Frank Thomas were about 5 years earlier. It turned out that Guerrero was not enough to save the 'Spos, but he has been a joy to watch. With luck, he'll be on the playing field for another decade.

Vladimir Guerrero was signed out of Puerto Rico by the Expos at age 17, and hit .315 with power in Rookie League the following summer. Moving on to low A ball in 1995, he took a small step forward in all batting departments. He started out 1996 in the Florida State League. After 20 games of utter demolition (.362/.388/.650), he was promoted to Harrisburg of the Eastern League, where he stepped it up even further hitting .360 with power and a positive W/K ratio of 51/42 in 417 at-bats. At his age and with his defensive abilities, he was toppermost of the poppermost among the prospects. He had a cup of coffee in the majors that year, and then came up for good in 1997 at age 21.

His rookie year at age 21 was, by his standards, one of adjustment, as he hit .302/.350/.483 only. Since then, he's been remarkably consistent, hitting usually within spitting distance of .330 and over 30 homers and about 60 walks, despite ongoing back and knee injuries and playing in unfavorable environments. He was a prolific base-stealer for a couple of years in his mid-20s, but injuries have slowed him somewhat. Still, he stole 28 bases and was caught only 4 times during 2004 and 2005. If he has a weakness in his game, it is his propensity to hit into double plays.

Let's compare Guerrero first against the great rightfielders, other than Ruth, as of age 29:

Player AB R H RBI HR BA OBP SLUG OPS+
Guerrero 4895 860 1586 936 305 .324 .391 .587 148
Aaron 5940 1077 1898 1121 342 .320 .375 .572 157
F. Robinson 5527 1043 1673 1009 318 .303 .389 .554 150
Ott 6148 1247 1939 1306 342 .315 .415 .557 158
Kaline 5979 958 1837 957 232 .305 .375 .493 133
Clemente 5321 741 1633 657 104 .304 .344 .444 113
Winfield 4385 651 1294 694 167 .285 .357 .464 134

Guerrero to this point slides in nicely between the top 4 (as of age 29) Ruth, Aaron, Frank Robinson and Mel Ott and the next group which includes Kaline, Clemente and Winfield. One can see already that durability is likely to be the only question. Guerrero does have the ability to be a designated hitter, so the likelihood is that he will be able to continue a long, long time.

How about comparison of Guerrero against his current competitors Larry Walker and Sammy Sosa at age 29:

Player AB R H RBI HR BA OBP SLUG OPS+
Guerrero 4895 860 1586 936 305 .324 .391 .587 148
Walker 3132 522 892 543 153 .285 .359 .510 128
Sosa 4664 727 1233 800 273 .264 .318 .493 114


No contest, really. Guerrero has been a far superior player to either of these guys. Sammy Sosa hit 66 homers at age 29, and had 5 good seasons left. If Guerrero can manage that, he will be, in my view. a shoo-in. That's not a certainty. There certainly have been right-fielders who faded quickly in their early 30s, from Mel Ott to Juan Gonzalez, but I like Guerrero's chances.
Hall Watch 2006- Vladimir Guerrero | 6 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mick Doherty - Friday, July 21 2006 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#151181) #

Interesting coincidence .... Guerrero and Andruw Jones, who was subject of a poll on da Box this week, each have exactly 325 homers right now. Jones is 13 months younger.

Speaking of polls, after reading Mike's essay above, vote on Vlad's HOF likelihood in the current poll. I admit I voted "slam dunk," and am surprised that more than 75 percent of voters so far have NOT voted that way.

Anders - Friday, July 21 2006 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#151184) #
I admit I voted "slam dunk," and am surprised that more than 75 percent of voters so far have NOT voted that way.

I would imagine that it's pretty hard to have a complete hall of fame career if you only play for half a career, which is about where Vlad is right now. If he continues hitting the way he does for a couple more years, or even at a diminished rate, he'll make it in. If he had a career ending injury tommorow I think he would need an awful lot of sympathy from the voters to get in.

You can count on one (and a bit) hand(s) the number of players who are slam dunk surefire first balloters right now.
ken_warren - Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 12:42 AM EDT (#151225) #
Using Win Shares and Career Assessments let's compare Vlad with some other OF not in the Hall of Fame (as of the 2005 season)

Tim Raines:

Total Career Win Shares -  388.8
Best Three Seasons - 35.8, 33.8, 32.1
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 161.8
Career Value - 1,018

Gary Sheffield

Total Career Win Shares - 399.6
Best Three Seasons - 34.5, 34.5, 32.7
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 152.5
Career Value - 1,010

Tony Gwynn

Total Career Win Shares - 398.5
Best Three Seasons - 38.6, 35.0, 29.9
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 138.1
Career Value - 985

Samy Sosa

Total Career Win Shares - 314.1
Best Three Seasons - 42.4, 35.2, 29.9
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 160.5
Career Value - 958

Ken Griffey Jr.

Total Career Win Shares - 362.7
Best Three Seasons - 35.7, 31.1, 29.7
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 148.3
Career Value - 949

Rusty Staub

Total Career Win Shared - 358.1
Best Three Seasons - 31.8, 29.6, 27.8
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 153.7
Career Value - 933

Dave Parker

Total Career Win Shares - 324.3
Best Three Seasons - 36.6, 33.0, 30.8
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 148.8
Career Value - 923

Ken Singleton

Total Career Win Shares - 301.5
Best Three Seasons - 36.2, 32.5, 31.6
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 151.8
Career Value - 906

Frank Howard

Total Career Win Shares - 296.3
Best Three Seasons - 37.8, 33.8, 29.8
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 152.3
Career Value - 905

Manny Ramirez

Total Career Win Shares - 308.5
Best Three Seasons - 34.7, 33.8, 29.0
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 144.0
Career Value - 889

Jimmy Wynn

Total Career Win Shares - 305.2
Best Three Seasons - 36.3, 32.3, 31.9
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 141.1
Career Value - 889

Bobby Bonds

Total Career Win Shares - 301.9
Best Three Seasons - 32.1, 31.6, 31.6
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 150.0
Career Value - 888

Bernie Williams

Total Career Win Shares - 303.2
Best Three Seasons - 33.1, 30.0, 27.2
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 139.8
Career Value - 854

Andre Dawson

Total Career Win Shares - 341.1
Best Three Seasons - 29.1, 27.5, 26.0
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 131.6
Career Value - 852

Jim Edmonds

Total Career Win Shares - 269.7
Best Three Seasons - 36.2, 30.0, 29.0
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 146.5
Career Value - 848

Fred Lynn

Total Career Win Shares - 279.8
Best Three Seasons - 34.0, 33.4, 27.4
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 132.2
Career Value - 829

Albert Belle

Total Career Win Shares - 243.7
Best Three Seasons - 37.4, 30.7, 30.0
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 140.5
Career Value - 819

Brian Giles

Total Career Win Shares - 234.4
Best Three Seasons - 33.2, 31.6, 28.6
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 146.4
Career Value - 817

Jose Canseco

Total Career Win Shares - 271.7
Best Three Seasons - 38.9, 31.3, 26.3
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 127.7
Career Value - 817

Jim Rice

Total Career Win Shares - 279.8
Best Three Seasons - 35.8, 28.0, 27.8
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 126.7
Career Value - 808

Bobby Abreau

Total Career Win Shares - 230.2
Best Three Seasons - 37.1, 29.0, 28.5
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 145.0
Career Value - 804

Larry Walker

Total Career Win Shares - 311.0
Best Three Seasons - 32.0, 26.1, 26.0
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 108.9
Career Value - 781

Darryl Strawberry

Total Career Win Shares - 252.4
Best Three Seasons - 30.1, 30.0, 25.9
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 133.1
Career Value - 777

Roger Maris

Total Career Win Shares - 224.0
Best Three Seasons - 35.8, 30.9, 25.3
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 134.3
Career Value - 769

Vladimir Guerrero

Total Career Win Shares - 223.0
Best Three Seasons - 29.5, 29.5, 29.2
Best Five Consecutive Seasons - 139.0
Career Value - 766

Vlad is the best outfielder born after 1974, but he has a long way to go to be a Hall of Famer, as these comparisons show.  He's got a lot of guys with better credentials well ahead of him.  But given the fact that he has accomplished all of this before he turned 30 shows that he is well on his way.

Since HOF voters tend to love counting stats (HR, RBI) and batting average the fact that Vlad doesn't walk too much for a slugger and was a full-time player at age 21 means that he going to put up some prodigous totals if he stays healthy for another ten years or so.  600 home runs and 1,900 RBI(s) are not beyond the realm of possibility.  And then there is his .324 career batting average.  Looks like he is well on his way, but certainly not a lock.  If 2006 turned out to be his last season for some reason, he wouldn't stand  a chance.  He needs to continue doing what he is doing for another five or six seasons.  His best seasons are not really all that impressive.  It's his counting stats and BA that will do it for him.












Mike Green - Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 11:32 AM EDT (#151264) #
Here's where Singleton stood offensively at age 29.  And here's where Giles stood. Both of them were not in Guerrero's class as defenders. It's true that if Guerrero's career ended tomorrow, it would not be as impressive as others who are not in the Hall of Fame.  You might be able to say the same thing about Albert Pujols.

One of the problems with using Win Shares is that the measures of defensive ability are very imprecise.  Guerrero has not been as good as Barfield or Clemente with the glove, but he's right there in the next group of rightfielders defensively. 

Hall Watch 2006- Vladimir Guerrero | 6 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.