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Neither Toronto nor Atlanta had won an interleague game this season prior to last night, and in the late innings both teams looked eager to go to 0 – 7.



Star of the Game: As he often does, B.J. Ryan restored some semblance of order, setting down the final 4 enemy hitters in order. Reed Johnson rewarded his manager by reaching base 4 times out of the leadoff spot in a rare start against a righthander.
 
Unsung Hero: Josh Towers pitched quite well into the sixth, and got a raw deal when Scott Downs (with help from a certain unnamed catcher) uncorked a wild pitch as his first delivery out of the ‘pen. Without that, Adam LaRoche’s grounder to Overbay may have been a double-play ball to get out of the inning and leave Josh charged with just 2 earned runs and in line for the W.
 
For the Braves: Will their fans ever stop doing that incredibly annoying chant?
 
Boxscore: Voila.
 
Elsewhere: The Yankees got by Philly with a 4 run eighth, winning 9 – 7 in a game that saw Ryan Howard drive in all of Philadelphia’s runs. The Red Sox pounded the Nationals 11 – 3. The Jays remain 3 ½ games behind Beantown, 1 ½ back of Gotham.
 
Today: Ted Lilly goes for Toronto, Atlanta countering with Tim Hudson.
Blue Jays 6, Braves 5 | 74 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Craig B - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 09:10 AM EDT (#149395) #
Reed Johnson, apparently deciding that hitting .375 in April and .329 in May wasn't enough, has hit .432 in August with a .773 slugging percentage.  He needs to play every day until this hot streak is over.
Craig B - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 09:11 AM EDT (#149396) #
Um... I hope he does hit .432 in August.  I meant June, obviously. 
Craig B - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 09:20 AM EDT (#149397) #
Also, Freed Johnalanotto is the best hitting outfielder in major league baseball, with 67 runs created and 9.0 runs created per game.  Reed is outhitting Manny Ramirez.
Jordan - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 09:22 AM EDT (#149398) #

I got to thinking last night about these two organizations, Toronto and Atlanta, in the years after they met in the '92 Series. I remembered in particular the Sports Illustrated cover story on the Jays' championship, describing them as the model baseball franchise, the hallmark of consistent competitiveness, generous but hands-off ownership, etc.

Well, in the 15 years since these two clubs last met, the Blue Jays have had 3 owners, 3 GMs, 6 managers, countless hitting and pitching coaches, 1 first-place finish, 8 3rd-place finishes, 1 4th-place finish and 3 5th-place finishes.

In those same 15 years, the Braves have had 2 owners, 1 GM, 1 manager, and until recently, 1 pitching coach. They've finished first 14 times and 2nd once (and while the '94 Expos were very good, there's no guarantee Atlanta couldn't have made it 15 straight division championships had there been no lockout). Think about the Blue Jays winning the AL East 14 of the last 15 seasons, ahead of Boston and New York year after year.

So maybe the model franchise was actually the one on the other side of the field. But at least the Jays can take comfort that despite the Braves' insanely successful run, Atlanta and Toronto are tied in one meaningful category: post-'92 Series victories.

Barry Bonnell - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 09:23 AM EDT (#149399) #
I missed the Downs wild pitch. Was this a case where Molina should have had the ball?
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 09:41 AM EDT (#149401) #
I disagree with the suggestion that Sparky ought to be playing every day. His current batting average spike seems to be mostly related to a .411 BABIP without either significant power or blinding speed.  That is not sustainable.  Going forward, his career line including this year's performance (.286/.346/.416) is a more reasonable predictor of how he is likely to do.  On the other hand, Catalanotto's superb start of the season has been built on a solid foundation of an improvement of his strike zone control from very good to superb.  A W/K ratio of 2, and a K/PA ratio of 7% makes Brian Giles look like a hacker.  The platoon has been working splendidly, and there is absolutely no need to change it.
Joanna - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 09:48 AM EDT (#149403) #

Well, that was the most quintessential 2006 Jays game. 

1. The starter was decent but didn't go deep into the game, prompting Gibbons to hook him early.

2. Bullpen comes in, gives up runs.  Gibbons hooks them. Relief pitcher screams obscenities while departing.

3. Bo Jr. enters game, smokes opposition, causing everyone to forget previous bullpen struggle.

4. Bats go crazy.  Blue Jays win.  Annoyingly, Sox and Yanks also win.  Jays remain a few games back of 1st.

It's a game for the vault that will answer the question "What did the 2006 Jays do in the first half?" for future generations 

Craig B - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#149406) #

Well I didn't say his level of production was sustainable... I said he ought to be playing every day until his hot streak is over.  Have you not noticed that he is crushing the ball, Mike? 

Johnson should be playing much more against righthanders with Catalanotto still in the lineup.  If that means that Johnson or Cat has to DH and Hillenbrand has split more time with Overbay, so be it.  Mind you, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a reasonable stance to take right now regarding the offense, and Cat has played very well in left field this season, well enough that there's probably not a defensive reason to play Johnson more.

Magpie - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 10:16 AM EDT (#149410) #
I had no problem with the quick hook for Towers - it was 91 degrees, and it looked like he'd run out of gas. (3 hits in the first five innings, 3 hits to four batters in the sixth.)

As for the rest of it - well, those are the guys. Although I generally always have a problem with Speier pitching in a close game.

Mike D - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#149416) #

Well said, Joanna.  There were a few other Classic '06 hallmarks, including multiple runners getting gunned down on the basepaths; walking more often than striking out; fine glovework from Vernon Wells; getting the leadoff man on base repeatedly; and stranding double-digit runners.  The game was stressful enough with B.J.; thank goodness he's on board.

I'm with Craig on Reed Johnson.  Mind you, Mike Green's logic is unimpeachable; I just think that a manager needs to earn clubhouse capital by rewarding the hot hand, especially in the case of a player who has cheerfully come off the bench for much of the season.  And you try telling a player that their 3-year splits and unsustainable BABIP makes their hot streak an illusion!

Mike's wise cautionary note, to me, suggests that you don't go trade Cat and sign Sparky to a six-year extension based on his June.  But by all means, play the man tonight.  He's rakin'.

Leigh - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#149419) #
Will their fans ever stop doing that incredibly annoying chant?

Baseball would be better off without any racial slurs such as the Braves' chop/chant and Cleveland's logo.

Also, if Johnson is going to be getting regular at bats against right-handed pitching in American League ballparks, it should be at the expense of Hillenbrand, not Catalanotto.

For Towers' next home start, somebody ought to Photoshop a pair of those flambouyant, oversized Elton John glasses onto Towers' face with the caption "The Bitch is Back".
js_magloire - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#149422) #
A trade rumor going around (a couple of days old) says that the Angels would want to get Vernon Wells for Ervin Santana. Now, I'm not sure if its supposed to be straight up, and I love Wells too - but wouldn't 4.5 years of a pretty good pitcher be better than 1.5 years of a great centre fielder - when that spot would not leave a hole?

Okay. Just playing devil's advocate. No stoning please.

DiscoDave - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#149425) #
I missed the Downs wild pitch. Was this a case where Molina should have had the ball?

He just missed it.  Zaun would have had it.  It was a case of Benji being lazy, which I see a lot of when he starts.  Im not sure where this rep he got as an excellent catcher came from but he has yet to prove it in TO.
CaramonLS - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#149426) #
Regarding the Wells rumor, I just don't think Santana is enough for Wells.  He might be a good pitcher down the road, but he is far from a sure thing.  When trading a player of Wells value, I think you need at least another Santana upside player thrown into the deal to balance it out.

Santana and Kotchman? I'm all ears.

Craig B - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 11:23 AM EDT (#149427) #

Ervin Santana's a nice young pitcher, but I see nothing in him that indicates he's likely to be a star any time soon... he's more a solid #3/4 type. 

It would definitely be worth exploring for a team that wasn't trying to win now.

Jordan - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#149428) #

There's a pitcher named Santana I'd trade Wells to get, but he's not named Ervin.

That said, keep in mind that this is Vernon's age-27 year, which might help account for his offensive explosion. Recall also that there was talk in spring training, when Wells declined to discuss a Halladay-like extension, that the Jays might consider dealing him and giving CF in 2007 to Rios, hoping he might finally fulfill his potential.

Now, Wells' tremendous production this season, coupled with what might be a full-fledged breakout for Rios (though Alex has to show he can break out of this current slump), complicates things (though in a nice way) for the front office. Will Vernon want to commit long-term to a true contender? Will the Jays want to pay huge money for five of their star's post-peak years and hope for the best, a la Carlos Delgado? Is Rios a credible replacement long-term?

The Jays' eventual answer to the question of Vernon's long-term status will be a key point in the franchise's development.

CaramonLS - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#149430) #
I don't think the Jays can afford to risk letting a player like Wells walk.  If Wells gives the thumbs down to an extension, I think you have to explore your options in the trade market.

Mike D - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#149431) #

There is no need to worry about Vernon until the last possible moment before next year's trade deadline.  He's making $4.3M this season and $5.6 next year, and he's providing extraordinary value for that kind of money. 

The tipping point between "Vernon's a superstar helping the team" and "Vernon may walk and his trade value may not be higher" is pushed back a lot further when you're getting his production on the cheap.  Were he overpaid, that moment would come sooner.

Mike Green - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#149433) #
...And there's a Liriano who I would consider, and his name's not Nelson.

Vernon Wells' long-term production has had fairly typical fluctuations, and there is little reason to believe that his production from age 28-30 will be significantly different than it has been from age 24-27.  His situation is different from Delgado's because of their respective ages.  It is predictable that his range will decline somewhat, but moving Rios is, at this point, an incomplete answer.  The Jays are not awash with replacement right-fielders.

JayWay - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#149435) #

I agree.

It's like I said in the chat last night. If you take the Indians logo and make it  a giant, grinning Jewish cariacture, it's basically no different than the types of portrayals found in Nazi anti-semetic war-posters.

Jim - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#149437) #

Santana and Kotchman?

Santana has been better then I thought he would be and is probably going to be a pretty decent starter.  To me Kotchman at this point has the look of a guy who won't even have a career as good as Hillenbrand.    I would not even consider this package close to a reasonable return on Wells.

I have no idea why people are in such a hurry to move Vernon Wells.  3.5 games back in June chasing some flawed teams is when you add players, not subtract your best.

Paul D - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#149438) #
While Rios is only batting .206 in his last ten games, he also has 7 homeruns.   I'm not worried.
Ryan C - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 01:30 PM EDT (#149441) #
Of course there is at least one racial logo/mascot that I am ok with.....



AWeb - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#149446) #
Rios does not have 7 HR in the last 10 games. He does have 7 walks though, which I assume you meant.  I'm also in "the not too worried about Rios" group, as his bad June looks like .242/.351/.485. If that is what a bad month looks like, Rios is doing pretty well.

I noticed a few weeks ago in one of my rare chances to see a live game on TV  that Rios was being pitched with a lot of offspeed stuff. I don't know if this has been a noticable trend over the last month in all the games, but he seems to have adjusted, at least a little, by taking the walk if they won't pitch to him. He's up to 3.84 pithces/AB, which is a huge improvement over 3.55 last year.
Barry Bonnell - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#149448) #
My ho-hum attitude in spring towards the Molina signing has now grown to full fledged dislike. He has a decent bat but his speed and defence are major liabilities. Zaun with Phillips backing up would have been sufficient for this season and I think the money spent on Molina could have been saved and used at a later date.
Paul D - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#149449) #
Rios does not have 7 HR in the last 10 games. He does have 7 walks though, which I assume you meant.

Actually, I'm not sure what I meant.  I think I did mean that he had 7 hrs, but I was looking at the hit column.  Or I was going to write 4 home runs and wrote down the walks.  

Either way, like you said, no need to worry.
Bruce Wrigley - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#149461) #

He has a decent bat but his speed and defence are major liabilities

Given your handle, BB, this doesn't really surprise me.  Bonnell could run a little bit and he was OK in left field, but you couldn't observe his bat with a microscope.

Also, a propos of the "Fightin' Whities" logo above, Barry Bonnell still retains the title of the whitest-looking player I have ever seen.  Also worst moustache. 

Mike D - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#149496) #

Possibly, Caramon, but is the difference worth it?  What's greater between

a) the difference between a Wells package now and a Wells package at next year's deadline, and

b) the difference between Vernon Wells for the next full season of baseball and the money and talent you'd have to expend to make up his loss, offensively and defensively?

Between now and next year's deadline, the Jays will pay V-Dub around $5 million.  You cannot buy a player of Vernon's calibre for that kind of money.  So you can either pay much more or trade plenty of value to get somebody of equal value.  When you're the Phillies and have a Ryan Howard, you can move Thome before his walk year.  But the Jays can't plug anywhere near Wells' ability in.  So you have to balance the costs of replacing him -- not against whatever package you can dream up for Wells now, but against the difference between the expected package today and the expected package next year, since you're proposing a panic trade ("we've got to get what we can, and we can get more now than later") rather than a rational talent swap.  I can't imagine that difference can amount to a year's worth of an MVP candidate's services at $5 million in salary.  Does this make sense?

Mike Green - Wednesday, June 21 2006 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#149500) #
More specifically, what precisely would that mean for the outfield right after the trade?  Rios moves to center, Johnson presumably plays in right everyday, and Catalanotto plays everyday in left, and a fourth outfielder would have to be summoned from Syracuse where the options are slim. 

The outfield right now is an area where the club has precisely what it needs and no more.  If anything, as a pennant contender, they ought to be trying to add a major league ready 4th outfielder to the Syracuse roster as insurance in the event of injury.

Blue Jays 6, Braves 5 | 74 comments | Create New Account
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