Remember that the live chat (link at the top of the screen) works 24/7; some of us are chatting during the spring training games, while listening on the radio or mlb gameday audio.

Why not join us?

MLB.com has video of that Jin Young-Lee catch. It's the best defensive play I've seen so far this year.

If Al Leiter plays a prominent role for Team USA, then it's possible that Canada can take the whole group.

Absolutely, that Alex Rodriguez guy is all hype. I'd bet that Corey Koskie could kick his ass in this tournament. And even Torontonian Jesse Crain can bring more heat than that Clemens fella.

I don't know what's cheesier, naming an inaugural tournament a "Classic," or the rather hideous logo they came up with - which looks like something that might be rejected for the Olympics. Isn't the World kind of shaped like a baseball? Couldn't they have done something attractive using that premise?

Today at torontobaseballguys.com:

Seems not everyone loves the "100 Reasons to Hate Derek Jeter." I defend the article's merits against a rather miffed Yankees fan.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com/20060305jim.html

Plus, Chris still needs YOUR help and votes as we try to determine the mosted ex-Blue Jay. No Eric Hinske votes please, as he is still a member of the team.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com/20060227chris.html

Interesting article about depth at the catcher position that emphasizes the strength of the Blue Jays at the position. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5383546

This is not to disparage anyone's comments, but could someone fill me in on why Japan was considered a heavy favorite over Korea?

Living here in South Korea for the last seven years, I seem to recall The Hermit Kingdom faring quite well in their head to head matchups.

Korea typically has the pitching and defence (these days), while Japan usually offers up the relief staff and contact hitters. Doesn't sound like much of an "upset" to me.

Power and pitching tend to do that over relief pitching and slap hitting, in my humble opinion.

Because, from what I can tell, the Japanese domestic league is of superior quality to the Korean domestic league. Seung Yeop Lee, Korea's best position player, plays in Japan. Because Japan has more major leaguers, and players rumoured to become major leaguers in the next couple of years, than Korea. And Japan has some very good power bats in players in players like Matsunaka, Fukodome and Iwamura, to name a few. To characterize them all slap hitters isn't accurate to me.

I considered it an upset and I think most mainstream media sources (which aren't always the best resources on some matters, I admit) called in an upset in their game reports.

If you thought Korea was as good of a bet as Japan, you could have wagered some money on the game, as I'm sure you would have got good odds.

Team Canada enjoying themselves. Good story.

Ladies and Gents, your 2006 version of Brandon League, Dustin McGowan.

Sheesh, I think it'd be impossible for a pitcher to look worse than McGowan has today. Somebody save the kid and get him the hell out of there! Baldwin didn't look any better but you've got to love Ben Weber and his windup, classic.

The hitting looks nice however, the defense abysmal and Bengie Molina's arm has looked less than spectacular.

BTW, Glaus can MASH!

DepecheJay, 8 runs by the Spankies so far...uugh!

Any more updates would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks...

For those that don't have the opportunity to watch this game... you are the lucky ones. What a pathetic game on both sides.

The Jays tie it up at 8 in the Top of the 5th. Hill reached on an error, Hillebrand doubled him over, Glaus singled to bring em both home, Overbay singled and Barker hit a three run homer to tie it.

Glaus has 4 RBI on the game and for some comedic value, here's Dustin McGowan's line...

1IP, 6 Hits, 7 ER, 1 K, 2 BB
He was absolutely pathetic out there.

Rosario and Purcey have looked pretty sharp, especially Rosario, but everyone seems to be giving up SOMETHING. No one has had the ability to take care of business quick.

And as I type, grounder to 1st and a runner scores, it's suddenly 10-8 Yankees.

Over at the Jays site at MLB.com, they have a poll running to determine which tandem people most prefer for the corner outfielders.

So far, the results are:
Sparky and Rios - 49%
Cat and Rios - 42%
Cat and Hinske - 8%
Sparky and Hinske - 0%

Sparky and Rios as the two starting corner outfielders? Yuck.

Hinske and Cat against righties with Sparky and Rios coming in as defensive replacements. Sparky and Rios start against lefties. Why is this so hard? Platooned properly, our corner outfielders won't be a liability.

Except defensively.

Those people that voted for Rios and Johnson are the same people that thought McGowan, Weber, and Baldwin stood a better shot of making the Opening Day roster before Quiroz--and this was before Molina was acquired.

And except for around here, you're not allowed to like Hinske under punishment of being called various names.

mlb.com is reporting that Kirby Puckett has passed away after his stroke yesterday. Here is the link.

http://tinyurl.com/hpeuz

This is a huge shock. I'm stunned. Deepest sympathies to his family.

I have started a Puckett thread. Memories of Kirby and condolences can be posted there.

I understand there are home run hitters in Japan, but how many true power hitters have they produced?

Let's see:

Matsui: some adequate power, but more of a doubles hitter.
Everyone else--slap hitter (including Taguchi).

The Korean masher in the Japanese league has broken their all-time records-despite their obvious attempts to stop him from doing so.

The reason he plays in this league is not really due to overall quality, but rather money. Japan's money is simply worth more.

The Japanese have produced a few more major leaguers, but which ones have really been dominant long term?

Nomo--one pitch wonder
Ishii--two year wonder
The rest, average to good one inning relief pitchers.

On the Korean side, at least their pitchers have better natural stuff, as well as their power hitters (Such as Kim Byung Hyun, Sunny Kim and Jae Seo, among others).

Even Choi Hee Seop, who has a hole in his swing, is a more true power hitter than most of the Japanese players I watched on their squad.

The truth is, most of the American Networks don't know and couldn't care less which league is better, because neither are top leagues.

Anyone who followed the last few head to head matchups would have seen the Koreans have more natural power and pitching ability than the Japanese.

You're right, I should have bet (although, my wife would've killed me.)

On a side note about the Jays spring training...

Am I the only one that thinks Weber might play a more major role than the organization is admitting? Walker always "walks the line" between competence and getting burned, while Speier always seems to get hot when the team regresses. I'd replace Walker right now with Weber.
Downs can hndle the occasional long relief and lefty specialist duties. He's more of a starter, anyway.

My pen would look like this:

Chulk
Frasor
Ryan

Downs
Speier
Weber

Neither McGowan nor League is ready this year, so if I were Mr. Gibbons I'd find him a spot--and soon.

Ex-Blue Jays celebrating a birthday today: Goose Gozzo, Jeff Kent and Joe Carter. Boxed best wishes to one and all.

Durazo taking regular at bats in spring training... fully recovered... signed for peanuts...

I harped on this for a reason.

If anyone wants a long draft study there's one at SOSH (I printed it out and it's 20 pages with virtually no margins).

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=4100

Interestingly, picks 11-15 have been more valuable than picks 2-10 in more recent years.

The study unfortunately covers only 8 drafts. There have been no WARP 60+ players in the #2-#4 slots of the covered drafts, but that's simply a sample size issue. A quick check shows that Reggie Jackson, Robin Yount, Dave Winfield, Matt Williams and Kevin Brown were all drafted in the 2-4 slots. If you look at the 65-94 drafts, 30 years, I am quite sure that you would see a slow decline as you moved down the draft. There have been only 5 WARP 60+ players among the 30 1st overall picks during that period- A-Rod, Chipper, Griffey Jr., Strawberry and Baines. Among those from 94-02, only Mauer, Burrell and giving an extreme benefit of doubt Kris Benson, have a chance to get there.

Seeing as this is a Notes from Nowhere segment, no better place to drop this:


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html

I know some of you posters have been a bit naive with the steriods issue, but this pretty much nails the coffin shut on Mr. Bonds.

The problem is while this is only 8 drafts, the drafts from the 70s and 80s aren't necessarily relevant anymore.

The individual slots aren't that important. As the author noted a blended rating of the slots smooths out the outliers. The returns will always decrease the further out you get, the key is trying to get a handle on how much and the trends among Ps and Hs and HS and C.

Rany has an interesting piece on college position players in today's BP, suggesting that college firstbasemen are good drafts. The names Olerud and Thomas come to mind quickly. I do remember that Thomas fell in the draft because he did not have the broad base of tools, even though he was clearly the best hitter that year.

There is definitely a tension between the scout's interest and ability in projecting a player's development and the GM's interest in defining probabilities that the projection will be attained.

Report #4 from the Dunedin Public Library.

Just came from the Reds vs. Jays game today, another good one that the Jays took 6-3. Halladay got the start and looked way more impressive than he did first time out - maybe because Adams wasn't playing SS to boot the first hit of the game? He only gave up 1 hit thru 3 innings, faced the minimum by picking off the only batter to get a hit off him (Felipe Lopez), and only needed 7 pitches in the 3rd to get three quick groundouts. The scariest moment was when Scott Hatteberg hit a scorcher right back at Roy's leg in the 1st, luckily it didn't faze him. Just for that, SS LOOGY nailed Hatteberg in the hip with the first pitch his next time up. That'll teach him: Don't mess with Roy's leg!

Eric Milton lived up to his rep as a fly-ball pitcher for the Reds, gave up 4 runs in less than an inning today including a 3 run homer to Shea and a double to Wayne Lydon off the top of the LF wall. Lydon has impressed me this spring, he's fast and can hit. Hinske didn't look too great in RF today, I thought he could have played one of his only chances better (a double off the wall).

Scott Downs wasn't sharp at all today, seemed to be labouring a bit. Same with Ismael Ramirez, who pitched a nervous 9th, loading the bases and bringing the tying run to bat. But all was good in the end, and I trust that BJ Ryan won't let that happen much this year.

Additional thumbs up go to Eric Kratz for his line-drive pinch-hit homer in the 8th, and Curtis Thigpen for his hustle in turning a single into a double in the 6th.

One more point - I don't think that Ben Weber has a very good chance of making the pen this spring, he was lit up the only game I saw him in so far, didn't even make it through an inning. Pete Walker pitched again today and he has looked solid, I would think that Downs is most likely the 7th reliever out of the pen at this time.

Next up, tomorrow vs Cleveland.

Question of the day:

Is Roger Clemens one of the 5 best pitchers in MLB history?

Um ... yes. The question really is, can you name ONE that was unequivocally, no question about it, absolutely *better*?

Love the updates, Smithers.

Durazo is playing for Mexico? I thought he was out until the Mid-Summer?

As I say that it looked like he may have tweaked his left elbow a bit swinging, ha.

<i>Um ... yes. The question really is, can you name ONE that was unequivocally, no question about it, absolutely *better*?</i><p>

I am going to say Walter Johnson, because I have to believe that Clemens isn't the best pitcher of all time, because I can't stand him.

I was gonna try and answer the question about what pitcher is better than Roger Clemens, and then my brain was about to explode.


Maybe Nolan Ryan? Satchel Paige? It's so hard to compare because of different contexts.

No offense, but Nolan Ryan isn't even in the discussion.

The very fact that the United States beat Mexico by a slim margin of 2-0 is a testament to the notion that anything can happen in this International Competition. And it's good to see.

Walter Johnson and maybe Christy Mathewson are the only ones who I can think of who might be better than Clemens. Maybe Satchel Paige too.

Nolan Ryan probably isn't in the top 20.

Foxsports.com had a simulated WBC and had Canada losing in the semis to the US. Even so it had us going 3-0 in round 2 (vs. US, Japan, and Korea). Even if we don't win it should be a great tournament as evidenced by the Domicican/Venezuela matchup today.

For me, the only pitchers that are in that discussion with Clemens are Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Lefty Grove, Pete Alexander, Greg Maddux and Cy Young [Satchel Paige...maybe]. I think Grove is underestimated too frequently when great pitchers are discussed.

If Pedro has another 3 great seasons, I think he is in the class of the aforementioned pitchers.

Rios hit a bomb in the Puerto Rico/ Panama game tonight, he's actually 2 for 2.

He's on a bit of a tear, I like, I like.

Can we get a new Thread for the Canada game?

JB21, we're live with a Canada-South Africa thread.

Mark my words: Rios/Hinske platoon in RF gives 28 homeruns next year. WDYT: over...under?

Caramon - I am surprised at the lack of discussion on the release of "Game of Shadows" here. We're talking about the downfall of quite possibly the best baseball player ever. This is the biggest story in baseball since 1989 and Pete Rose - by a long shot. The home run record is the most hallowed in sports and it has been permanently sullied. Of course, the steroid controversy has been a gradual process and there have been other players involved (McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero) involved, but this is a bombshell. Tom Verducci is one of the most respected national baseball writers alive and he has said that Bonds' reputation is shot and that he will not vote for him for the HOF. A guy that will finish his career with over 700 HR may not get inducted to the HOF. It is possible that both the Hit King and the Home Run King will not be in the HOF.

It's really very sad. I generally don't like discussing the steroid stuff because evidence against specific players has been lacking, but most of all because I love the game and would prefer to pretend like it's not happening and focus on the games. But this story is too big and can't be ignored. I guess maybe this topic has been beaten to death and there's not a lot left to say so that's why people are not talking about it here. But this story is going nowhere and will be the major topic of discussion in MLB for at least the rest of spring training and will likely overshadow the WBC. That's a shame too because the games have been great so far.

Ken Huckaby's chances of sticking with the Red Sox just got better:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5389168

Enjoy catching Wakefield, Huck...

Looks like Rios may win the 2006 Gabe Gross award for excellence in spring training. He went 2 for 3 with a HR for Puerto Rico yesterday against Panama.

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/worldbaseballclassic/boxscore?key=20060307WBBCPUERTORICOPANAMA0

Re Game of Shadows:

This, simply put, is not news.

Anybody who still needed convincing probably lacks the capacity to read the aforementioned book.

61 remains the big number for me, but 73 will be there in the back of my mind, much like Ben Johnson's 9.79 in 1988, as a startling spectacle. (McGwire and Sosa were no different friends)

61 remains the big number for me, but 73 will be there in the back of my mind, much like Ben Johnson's 9.79 in 1988, as a startling spectacle. (McGwire and Sosa were no different friends)

Any kind of proof at all about Sosa, other than a quick decline?

Carl Lewis is to Ben Johnson what Sammy Sosa and Big Mac are to Bonds.

Sosa got huge and added 26 home runs to his career best at age 31.

His string of dream seasons extended from 31-36 years of age.

He steeply declined with the advent of the steroid policy.

Draw your own conclusions.

Hi guys -- there's a Bonds/steroids thread up and running. We'd like to try to keep all the discussion of that specific subject localized, if we can.

Trying to contain the blast. Good call.

NFH, or anyone else, I have a question. I can only see the Barry Bonds topic on the Hot Topics sidebar. I checked my settings, and I only have Hall of Names and BBFL checked for exclusion.

Then, at the bottom there's information about hot topics and polls. The paragraph confused the heck out of me. Am I supposed to have hot topics checked so they show up, unlike every other article type?

Thanks.

Hi there folks. Long time listener, first time caller.

I just got back from my first ever Spring Training excursion, and I have to recommend it VERY strongly to any even casual baseball fan who's ever thought about it.

I won't go into the in depth scouting reports as, frankly, I was more into enjoying the atmosphere and heckling the other teams (and the Jays) than making detailed scouting reports. I'll try not to ramble on too long...

1. Dunedin has, hands down, the best beer vendor in baseball. Yes, even better than the "ice cold beer" guy at Skydome. His name's Chad, he occasionally leads the stadium in "Take Me Out to the Ballgame", he remembered our order, and had a hell of a voice.

2. The atmosphere at Knology Field (1-800-Silent K) is great. The fresh squeezed lemonade and the pulled pork sandwiches (along with the beer) are the best of the concessions. If you don't eat pork, try the grilled chicken sandwiches. The souvenirs are sub-par. Shop at Skydome.

3. Dunedin's a great town. Very homey and not as chi-chi as Clearwater. Jolli Mon's Grill next to the Holiday Inn has a great blackened Mahi-Mahi sandwich, and the fresh smoothy at the Box Car(?) is a nice morning pick-me-up.

Walking back from the game, my buddy and I knocked a couple of grapefruits off of a tree and had an impromptu snack. The don't call it La Ligue de Pamplemousse for nothing.

4. Wayne Lydon, after a rough start in the outfield, was very impressive. Good speed, a little pop, good hustle. Is he penciled in as Syracuse' starting CF? He looked better than what's his name, the 17-year old Gord Ash drafted who can run and field but not hit. It'll come to me.

5. AJ Burnett has filthy stuff. I'm a little worried about his makeup (I didn't like how he served me cole slaw at the season ticket holders' BBQ, and he seemed a little touchy) but if Arnsberg can keep his mechanics in line, and Gibbons et al can keep him happy, then look out. I can't see 5 happy years in this relationship, but if we get 2.5, it might be worthwhile.

6. Greg Zaun is an excellent guy. He signed a bat for my friend, and was very personable. He also looked to be in mid-season form. The Jays catching depth is very encouraging and should be a strength over the course of the season. Also, my friend has nicknamed him "The Rock and Roll Outlaw" for his hard core attitude. I like it. Try using it at the games this season.

7. I was generally impressed by the friendliness of the players. I'm a bit over getting autographs, but Hinske, Hill, Brantley, George Bell (okay, yes, I did get my picture taken with him, come on, he rules), and others were very good about signing for the kids and adults who were asking.

8. John Ford Griffin has a really nice bat. He and Hillenbrand looked to be the most locked in of the Jays' hitters. I don't know if there's room for him on the roster, but as added depth in case of injury, I think JFG can be a contributor.

9. Bengie Molina has an outrageous lack of speed. The Jays will hit into a LOT of double plays this year. I see them leading the league.

10. We were based in Tampa and, while we avoided all of the strip clubs in close proximity to our hotel (sorry, Mons Venus), we managed to have fun. We went to a bunch of great bars in Ybor City, had an unbelievable meal at Bern's Steak House (largest wine cellar in the world, they have their own aquarium to keep fish fresh, and a dessert room that's fairly ridiculous) and we caught the Lightning playing the Habs. The Tampa Hockey fans were loud, knowledgeable, and friendly. It was surprising and impressive.

If anybody's going down and is interested in tips for how to have a little bit of fun, let me know.

Sorry for the extremely long post, but I hope it gives y'all a flavour of the awesomeness of Spring Training. You should go. Seriously. Right now. I mean it.

Report #5 from the Dunedin Public Library.

(Nice report by Adrock by the way, I agree with all those comments.)

Just came from the Cleveland Indians beating the Jays 7-4 - but do the scores really matter at this time of year? AJ got the start again for the Jays today, and seemed to have his fastball working at the start. But he gave up 2 runs in both the second and third innings, and wasn't getting his breaking pitches over consistently. When the hitters could sit on the fastball he seemed to be hittable. He also seems to lose focus at times, hopefully he can learn a lesson from Doc.

Andy Marte is a true hitter as he proved today, knocking a 2 run homer off AJ over the LF wall. For good measure he later added an RBI sacrifice fly, two singles and a double - to go along with some smoked foul balls. I'll be picking him up in my fantasy league this season.

Bengie Molina didn't look too great behind the plate, his throws to second were a bit wild, and he doesn't seem that mobile. And he has to be the slowest player in the division, bar none - he only hit into one double play today, but he also hit a grounder deep into the hole at short and got thrown out by at least 2 steps. I find it hard to believe that Hinske is reported to weigh 10 pounds more than him.

GQ and Hinske both hit homers today, Hinske's coming off a lefty to boot. I think the Jays bench is going to be a strong point this year.

Jason Frasor looked good in his inning of work today, he might be ready to take over the setup role if Speier doesn't come back soon. James Baldwin and Ben Weber - not so much. They both looked shaky today in their innings - Baldwin gave up 1 run but nearly gave up a grand slam, and Weber gave up two runs and just seems to be labouring on the mound, getting frustrated easily. Brandon League wasn't bad today, other than the comebacker that he caught and then airmailed over Vito C at first.

Adam Lind and Ryan Patterson each played well today, hopefully they continue climbing through the system. Cory Patton on the other hand just looked overmatched, striking out on three pitches. Of course, it's still early.

Up next - tomorrow vs the Detroit Tigers

Thanks, Smithers. BB ought to send a donation to the Dunedin Public Library in your name. Damn, there's nothing in the budget for it.:)

Dont' apologize for length Smithers. I'm living vicariously through your posts.

It's too bad you didn't go to the strip clubs though. I may just have to go to Dunedin to fill in the gaps in your report. Of course, I won't really need to go during Spring Training to get the info I'm looking for.

Anyone have notes on how Casey Jannsen did in the B game?

I believe he started and went two shutout innings, maybe one base runner.

It was indeed Miguel Negron.

John "Panama" Hattig didn't look particularly good either. He appeared to swing at just about everything.

John "Panama" Hattig

You mean the "Guam Bomb"?

Cap'n Intangibles will be on the Jim Rome show in 15 minutes.

Report #6 from the Dunedin Public Library (sadly, will be the last one before my return to slushy Winnipeg).

Just finished watching the Jays lose 3-2 to the Detroit Tigers, a game they probably should have won. But the experience of coming down to Dunedin for spring training makes the scores of the games secondary. Josh Towers got the start for the Jays today and he looked impressive, going 3 innings giving up only one hit. And that hit was in the battle of the Joshes - which this time went to our old pal Phelps, who got a single. Towers's velocity seemed good, and he was spotting his pitches well.

I know I've been ripping on Bengie Molina a bit, but he got the Jays on the board in the first by lining a shot just by the first baseman down the line. Of course, there was no way he was going to turn it and go for two the way someone like Wayne Lydon would. That was the only hit that Tigers starter Joel Zumaya gave up today (the other runner was an error that came around to score). Zumaya has really nasty stuff - the Jays for the most part couldn't catch up to his pitches, and there weren't really any hard-hit balls off of him.

SS LOOGY looked impressive in his quick 1-2-3 inning of work, I predict that his ERA should be lower than it was last year, now that Gibbons knows how to use him and he's settled into his role.

Jason Phillips lined a homer over the LF wall today, the ball got out in a hurry. He's played both catcher and 1B this spring, and seems like a versatile guy who would be worth keeping around. Of course, they already have Molina, Zaun and Quiroz, and Curtis Thigpen has looked good in his action this spring, he's easily the fastest of the catching lot. Hopefully we don't lose two of these guys before the season begins, although a trade might be the best way to clear the situation up.

Ricky Romero pitched two innings today, and if he had only pitched one I'd say that he was quite impressive, much better than his first outing. He had 2 K's in his first inning, a couple hard hit balls but showed nice competitiveness and pitch selection. Of course, in his second inning he loaded the bases with none out, but still nearly got out of it unscathed. But didn't. Gave up two runs, not on very hard hit balls but still tied the game up at 2.

In the 9th the Tigers did what the Jays couldn't do in the 8th - they put the leadoff runner on and manufactured a run to win 3-2. In the 8th Miguel Negron led off with a walk, but the Guam Bomb Hattig bombed again and struck out, Roberts couldn't move him over on a failed hit and run (popped up), and then Negron was thrown out trying to steal. Up next the Jays brought in Matt Blank - who didn't live up to his name. He put the leadoff man on, then the Tigers executed a perfect hit-and-run, hitting the ball right thru where Roberts would have been at second to get runners on the corners. A cheesy big-hop comebacker to the mound that Blank didn't throw well back to the catcher was all it took to get the winning run. What can ya do?

I hope that the Batter's Box readers have enjoyed these reports a fraction as much as I have writing them, this trip to Dunedin has been a dream vacation for me. If they were all compiled I could maybe write them up as a pinch-hit, but what comes after the Dunedin Diary Redux anyways?

Mr. smithers your reports have been most enjoyable, thank you.

Bad news is that Clemens might join the Texas Rangers, making them a definite contender to either win their division, or make wildcard. Yikes. If he played last year for them, with their run support, he'd have been 24-3. It's 50/50.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/baseball/14065705.htm

I agree -- thank you so much for sharing your Spring Training experiences with us, Smithers.