Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Hillenbrand and Walker Agree To Deals Avoiding Arbitration

Hillenbrand and Walker Agree To Deals Avoiding Arbitration

ESPN.com reports that Shea Hillenbrand has agreed to a 1 year, $5.8 million deal with the Jays to avoid arbirtation.

Update: Pete Walker has also signed a one year contract avoiding arbitration by signing a deal for $650,000 this season.

Hillenbrand had asked for $6.75 million with the Jays offering $5.0 million, so the sides settled on an amount slightly less than the midpoint of the two figures. Hillenbrand will also receive an additional $25,000 if he reaches 610 plate appearances and another $25,000 if he reaches 635 plate appearances.

The Jays payroll heading into spring training looks to be between $73.0 and $73.5 million.

Posted by Pistol on Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 01:22 PM EST.

Hillenbrand and Walker Agree To Deals Avoiding Arbitration | 115 comments | Create New Account

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SK in NJ - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 01:44 PM EST (#140824) #

Trade Hillenbrand and use a Hinske/Molina platoon at DH. Who cares if Gibbons wants to keep him. For nearly $6 million, we can get more than a .770-.800 OPS at DH.

Mike Green - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 01:46 PM EST (#140826) #

Ouch. Sometimes more is paid than would be expected; other times (Bengie Molina) a little less.

I said at the end of last season that the Jays had an interesting non-tender decision with respect to Hillenbrand. Shortly thereafter, JP indicated that he would be tendering a contract to Hillenbrand. This decision seemed reasonable, although not necessarily one that I agreed with, at the time. With a left-handed incumbent at third base who had been vulnerable to injury (Koskie), Hillenbrand seemed to have considerable value. To some degree, he still does, but the dynamic has changed with the acquisition of Glaus.

I wonder if there are second thoughts about the early commitment to tender a contract. There is a learning process inherent in the GM's job, and part of that process involves striking a balance between a focus on getting what one needs and remaining dispassionate.

sweat - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 02:05 PM EST (#140829) #

I suspect JP decided signing a deal would be better than having Shea turn into a team cancer because the Jays didn't play nice and give him the deal he thought he deserved. IMHO the Jays had 95% chance of winning that ruling.

AWeb - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 02:37 PM EST (#140835) #

It's seems a little much for Hillenbrand, but he is the starting DH, and the backup plan at both corner infield spots in case of injury/need for days off. He is a good defender (IMO) at both spots, and seems likely to be a better hitter than Hinske. I'm glad there was no talk of a longterm deal though, as 3 years at $6mill/year would seem far worse to me than just one year. See how he goes this year, how other players develop, and then cut him loose next year if he's unneeded. Sounds like a good plan to me.

zaptom - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 03:58 PM EST (#140845) #

Was a consensus ever reached on who will appear on the new banner? I'm just throwing it out there...

Wildrose - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 04:29 PM EST (#140848) #

I think everyone is afraid to comment on this transaction, lest they have to buy someone a team jersey.

I'm ambivalent. League average D.H. OPS production is .777 and I think he'll achieve that, although the way Gibby uses the D.H. slot, several players will rotate through this position. He's versatile, but in the long run I think you can do better than Shea, so I hope he has a good year, brings back some draft choices and in 2007 maybe we'll do better through some sort of platoon arrangement.

Newton - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 04:51 PM EST (#140849) #

In my opinion Shea is worth very little to this team.

A platoon arrangement would produce comparable results at DH and Hinske can be the 3rd base/1st base sub.

Trade him if its still possible. He is virtually useless to the club.

I hate seeing his name on the roster, particularly when it falls so close to Hinske alphabetically.

We have no RF and we have a six million dollar superfluity at DH.

I don't know why this irritates me so much but it does.

DURAZO, DURAZO, DURAZO, or any RF PLEASE!

Named For Hank - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 05:00 PM EST (#140850) #

What's the Durazo injury situation?

Brent S - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 05:02 PM EST (#140851) #

Durazo had Tommy John surgery on July 19th of last year. I assume that the recovery time is about one year (although, I'm not 100% sure).

With Hinske and Hillenbrand around, I don't see a match with the Jays.

eeleye - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 05:04 PM EST (#140852) #

We already axed Koskie so we could keep Hillenbrand. Why would we get rid of him for a still-healing DH in Durazo (I say get him next year). And I hardly see how a .291 average, 18 homeruns, 82 rbis, and 91 runs is USELESS to the team.

eeleye - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 05:08 PM EST (#140853) #

re: Durazo, CBS says his status is "questionable" for spring training, and on Dec. 8th, 2005, they said "Luis E. Gonzalez in 2005 proved a hitter can be productive after rehab. Consider Durazo a flier as a DH in AL-only leagues at this point. He cannot play a position, so he will have to sign with an AL team to serve as DH."

Mike Green - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 05:25 PM EST (#140855) #

It seems that Gonzalez had his Tommy John surgery on August 2, 2004, and was able to play a full season with reasonable productivity in 2005. The rehab time is obviously shorter for position players than for pitchers. Still, the likelihood that Durazo will be that much more productive than Hillenbrand, bearing in mind that H'brand is a better defender at third base than Hinske, is low.

It does pain me that the bats that I was most excited about at the start of the off-season, Brian Giles and Frank Thomas, went for bargain prices to other teams. All of that is water under the bridge though, and as they say, time does begin on opening day.

Cristian - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 05:28 PM EST (#140856) #

Koskie was not axed so we could keep Hillenbrand. Koskie was axed because we traded for Glaus.

Wildrose - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 05:40 PM EST (#140857) #

I think everybody recovers from injury at a different rate. I quite like Durazo myself, but Billy Beane by all accounts loves the guy, him moving in another direction ( Frank Thomas) tells me the news about his recovery is probably not good.

I think we tend to forget, while the recovery rate for TJ surgery is quite good, that it really is quite a major operation . I'll always remember Jeff Zimmerman (former Ranger), remarking graphically in a local paper here, how even months after the surgery his elbow was so stiff he had trouble wiping himself after a bowel movement (let alone swinging a bat or pitching a ball).

Also Durazo's agent may be playing hardball, holding out for a full-value contract or believing its better to hit the market fresh in 2007 when fully recovered.

eeleye - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 05:40 PM EST (#140858) #

After the Glaus trade, we had to either get rid of Hinske (impossible), Koskie (no one wanted him), or Hillenbrand (the natural choice as he would have been snatched upin a matter of days - and that we had a surplus of corner IF). But we gave Koskie away for free, so we could keep Hillenbrand. Otherwise, Koskie would be our DH, a less desireable outcome, or our RF with Hinske at DH (also undesireable). But then we would have gotten something for Hillenbrand.

Dave Rouleau - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 05:50 PM EST (#140859) #

I think J.P. will use Hillenbrand as a trading bait before the trade deadline. The guy still has some good years ahead of him and...WE NEED A PRODUCTIVE OUTFIELDER.

eeleye - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 06:49 PM EST (#140863) #

Blue Jays signed Walker for $650,000. Looks like everything is set for the season. Let's Go!

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060209&content_id=1309230&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

PS: why does everyone hate Rios in RF so much? You gotta think
between Rios, Cat, Reed, and Hinske split between the corner OF positions, we will have at least 2 emerge as doing really well. And Rios hit like 10 homeruns in the last four months of the season last year. That means he's on pace for like 13 homeruns, plus if some of those doubles that hit the fence go a little bit over and that he's more mature???

Newton - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 06:53 PM EST (#140864) #

Green:

We have Hinske who can backup at 1st and 3rd.

Durazo would outhit Hillenbrand in spades. Hinske could DH in a platoon scenario if Durazo misses any time early.

rtcaino - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 07:04 PM EST (#140865) #

""Durazo would outhit Hillenbrand in spades. Hinske could DH in a platoon scenario if Durazo misses any time early.""

If and when healthy.

Ducey - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 07:05 PM EST (#140866) #

Newton:

I read a while ago that Durazo could be out until the All star break. His return then is not guaranteed either. When he comes back he will be pretty rusty. This is likely the reason that no team has signed him.

I think it is very unlikely he will outproduce Shea this season for the simple reason most of his season will be a write off.

Wildrose - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 07:11 PM EST (#140867) #

Newton I'm wrong, you love Durazo even more than Beane, much more...you really do have a blind spot about this guy, which is all right,we all have those windmills, mine is Cory Koskie.

Wildrose - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 07:40 PM EST (#140869) #

The boys at Primer are having a humorous go at Molina's anger over being dispatched by the Angels( or what ever they're bloody well called this particular week).

Glevin - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 07:51 PM EST (#140870) #

It's just too much money for Hillenbrand especially after Lecroy and Thomas signed for a under 3 million combined. My problem with Hillenbrand is that he virtually has no chance of even being an average DH. This was the place for the Jays to take a risk with upside. (Durazo/Thomas/White/Lecroy) It would have been cheaper and even at its worst, say a Hinske/Lecroy split, probably as good as Hillenbrand.

Wildrose - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 08:30 PM EST (#140872) #

we all have those windmills, mine is Cory Koskie.

Some would include John Macdonald in my list of windmills as well.

melondough - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 08:55 PM EST (#140874) #

Anyone have the exact 2006 payroll figure (do we include Hillenbrand's and Walker's potential performance bonuses)?

AWeb - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 09:24 PM EST (#140875) #

Comparing Hillenbrand to players like Thomas, Durazo, and Lecroy isn't being fair to the potential value Hillenbrand brings to the team. You wouldn't want any of them playing in the field, ever, while Hillenbrand can and will play in the field. Hinske, according to stats like range factor, isn't as good at first or third as Hillenbrand. Plus he's not as good a hitter. I'll grant that he could be, but the fact remains that he hasn't been (Hinske hasn't exactly masshed them either).

Thomas : played in 108 games in the last two years, could be out for the year at any time. Also 38 years old, more likely to get worse (Juan Gonzalez jumps into my head, although he was never as good) quickly.

Durazo: injured, may not even play.

LeCroy: same type of hitter as Hillenbrand, except can't field a position, and Hillenbrand hits righties better.

Rondell White, now there's a better idea, but still only marginally better anyway. I'll grant much cheaper though. A better risk to take, maybe.

As I see it, the chance on offensive-upside the Jays are taking is on Rios, Wells, Overbay, Adams, and Hill. They need someone to have a career year (or in Wells' case, another one like 2003), maybe more than one. After the last two years, it's easy to forget that it does happen to hitters sometimes. Not Hinske, Rios, Hudson, Woodward, Gross, or any anyone else it was hoped for since 2003, but it will happen again. Last year, Brian Roberts, Felipe Lopez, Bill Hall, David Dellucci, Derrek Lee, etc...not many saw their years coming.

Pistol - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 09:48 PM EST (#140876) #

I estimate the payroll is between $73.0 and $73.5 million (all the players with 2 years or less don't have contracts yet). The payroll isn't as rigid as it was in past years so getting to an exact amount isn't going to tell you anything. Godfrey indicated in the Molina PC that if they need more money they'd go to the boss to get it.

Jordan - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 09:51 PM EST (#140877) #

Jordan - Wednesday, January 18 2006 @ 01:12 PM EST (#139932)
I can see a one-year, $5.7M deal reached before the hearing.

Just sayin', is all.

Newton - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 09:58 PM EST (#140878) #

I just think Durazo could be the cheapest 400 at bats worth of .900 OBP you'll ever find and have an irrational hunch he'll rebound faster than people think a la L.Gonzalez (plus Durazo doesn't need to ever throw, that was L.Gone's problem).

I hate watching his at bats as an opponent. He takes a tonne of pitches, draws walks and could hit one into the upper deck on any pitch.

Glaus, Durazo, Wells, Overbay, now that is the heart of a contending batting order. Who cares if we have to wait a couple months to see it in action.

Braby21 - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 10:06 PM EST (#140881) #

Anybody know if the Jays have any ESPN Sunday Night Baseball games this year?? You'd think w/ the new exciting team and playing so much against the Yankees and the Sox tha they would make an appearance or two.

Also, I see that there are some "value" games on the Jays site, anyone know anything more about that?

smcs - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 10:34 PM EST (#140882) #

it looks like the value games are all the toonie tuesday games

smcs - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 10:38 PM EST (#140883) #

just quickly looking at the promotions, i am looking forward to the Gustavo Chacin Cologne day on June 27 against the Nationals and the Cito Gaston bobblehead day on August 6 against the White Sox

VBF - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 10:46 PM EST (#140884) #

Haha, I wonder who lobbied for the cologne day? Maybe a certain FAN590 morning crew...

No, Braby, I don't think a Sunday Night Baseball Game possible. The Jays have always played Sunday games at 1:00 (for their entire tenure perhaps?) and it was explained to me once by someone in the Jays office, but somehow due to some sort of television right, the Jays can't have a nighttime weekend game.

In terms of the value games, toonie Tuesdays are the value games. 500 level and 200 level outfield are two bucks, and most other seats are discounted.

Braby21 - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 11:01 PM EST (#140886) #

The television right thing is b/c ESPN Sunday Night Baseball is on Sunday nights...so there's only 1 game on Sunday's night and it's on ESPN. The Jay's don't play Sunday night recently b/c they haven't been good enough for national tv...

I was wondering b/c now that they have some hype if ESPN would pick up a game or two for ESPN Sunday Night Baseball...

CaramonLS - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 11:07 PM EST (#140887) #

Option #1 .291/.343/.449 (792 OPS)

Option #2 .280/.357/.457 (814 OPS)

Who would you rather have as your DH?

Option #1 is Shea Hillenbrand.

Option #2 is Eric Hinske/Jason Phillips with a strict Right handed/Left handed Platoon. You could probably knock 0.010 OPS off to account ABs where you wont switch, but you'd try whenever possible.

(These are all based on Last years stats).

This organization has a really disturbing facination with Shea...

CaramonLS - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 11:10 PM EST (#140888) #

I should Add, the numbers were Calced with a 75% Hinske (RHABs) and 25% Phillips (LHABs).

Craig B - Thursday, February 09 2006 @ 11:19 PM EST (#140889) #

Jordan - Wednesday, January 18 2006 @ 01:12 PM EST (#139932)
I can see a one-year, $5.7M deal reached before the hearing.

Geez, man, don't you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?

Fawaz - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 12:29 AM EST (#140893) #

Who cares if Durazo takes a couple of months? Given that it's about a third of the season, those two months could make or break the chances of a playoff run before it ever gets rolling. What happens to the line-up until he's ready? I hope this doesn't come off as dismissive of the idea. I really am just curious.

Assuming it's a straight Durazo for Shea trade-off you're proposing, the alternatives would be to put Hinske's bat in the line-up everyday and presumably abandon the outfield platoon plan or to call up someone like JFG. I happen to think they made a mistake in holding on to Hillenbrand over Koskie, but I still find Shea to be preferable to the alternatives I've mentioned (for this year's big league club, anyway).

Fawaz - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 12:34 AM EST (#140894) #

Sorry, I just looked over the thread again and saw your response to Mike. Who's Hinske platooning with? I take it you're OK with Rios playing full time then (I am too, but that's another story).

Cristian - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 01:00 AM EST (#140896) #

If we're discussing windmills I'm going to have to go with Bengie Molino.

http://www.spanishdict.com/AE.cfm?e=windmill

Gitz - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 02:50 AM EST (#140903) #

Glaus, Durazo, Wells, Overbay, now that is the heart of a contending batting order. Who cares if we have to wait a couple months to see it in action.

Perhaps you didn't get the memo? The games in April and May count, too -- and if you don't believe me, check out how great the A's were during those two months in 2005 . . .

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 08:11 AM EST (#140906) #

Gitz: Perhaps you didn't see the above posts, a platoon comprised of the players we currently have would outproduce Hillenbrand...

PLUS we'd have additional monies to acquire an OF (Durazo isn't going to cost 6 mill).

ITS SO OBVIOUS, GET IT DONE

greenfrog - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 09:39 AM EST (#140907) #

Part of the problem with the Hinske/Phillips or Hinske/Molina DH scenarios is defense and versatility.

Hinske, Molina and Phillips have been up and down offensively. Molina is extremely slow (not sure about Phillips, but he is a catcher). Hinske's ability to cover for Glaus at third if necessary is questionable at best. And having Phillips on the roster to DH against lefties and pinch-hit seems excessive when we've got two good catchers who can hit, Molina and Zaun.

Shea, on the other hand, hits adequately (and produced in a a weak lineup last year), is fairly consistent from year-to-year, is durable, and can play 3B and 1B fairly well, including over long stretches if necessary.

Sister - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 10:24 AM EST (#140909) #

Is J.P. done with the team overhaul yet? Despite the moves made I am still disappointed that neither of the corner OF positions has been substantially upgraded.

Of course, I will conveniently change my mind if Rios has a breakout year, and may even offer a few contradictory "I told you so's" to anyone who might listen.

For those interested, John Sickels plans to reveal his Blue Jays top 20 prospects on the weekend over at the minorleaguebaseball website.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/

Pistol - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 11:33 AM EST (#140910) #

In addition to the top 20 list we'll have an interview here with John Sickels over the weekend.

And if you want a bit of a tease, his number one Jays prospect is not Dustin McGowan.

Glevin - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 01:41 PM EST (#140913) #

"Shea, on the other hand, hits adequately (and produced in a a weak lineup last year), is fairly consistent from year-to-year, is durable, and can play 3B and 1B fairly well, including over long stretches if necessary."

The Jays don't need Shea to be able to play defense. Hinske is IMO a better fielder than Hillenbrand (who, in any case, at best, would be considered below average at 3B.) If need be, hill can play 3B fine as well. Because the Jays do not need his versatility, his versatility is not a strong point. He is consistant, and a decent hitter, but not nearly a good enough DH for a contending team with an otherwise average lineup. The Jays could have had similar value for millions less.

Glevin - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 01:43 PM EST (#140914) #

"For those interested, John Sickels plans to reveal his Blue Jays top 20 prospects on the weekend over at the minorleaguebaseball website."

I really like the way Sickles grades indivdual prospects rather than just ordering them. I look forward to it.

Ryan Day - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 02:12 PM EST (#140916) #

I like Durazo. I really do. I admit that I was hoping the Jays would sign him. But there are obviously a few problems:

Who knows when he'll be able to return. May? June? TJ surgery might be fairly routine, but it's not a 100% sure thing; what if rehab hits a snag, and he misses another month? And struggles when he is healthy, since he's been off his game since 2004? There's no way of knowing when and if he'll be a productive major league hitter, so signing him and hoping a Hinske/Phillips platoon does the job at DH seems a risky proposition for a team with aims at contention.
No one has signed him. I know that doesn't prove anything, but surely Durazo would be attractive to a number of teams. Either a) his health is really iffy or b) his agent is asking for a lot of money and/or years for a guy coming off significant surgery.
Zero defensive value. Zero versatility. Value that as you may, the Jays obviously like the fact that Hillenbrand can play the field, and give Overbay or Glaus a day off here and there. Take out Hillenbrand, and you're relying on Hinske to hold down the fort. I suspect that by this point, JP is trying to avoid having to rely on Hinske for anything. (Again, evaluate that how you will; the Jays seem to have ruled out Hinske as an infielder)

Glevin - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 03:07 PM EST (#140920) #

"No one has signed him. I know that doesn't prove anything, but surely Durazo would be attractive to a number of teams."

It took forever for Lecroy to sign and even then, it's not a good place for him. Most teams have good DHs, so it is the market, rather than the individual I think. A Frank Thomas like contract with a low base salary and incentives would be a great deal for any team. (Yankees might actually be the best fit.)

Glevin - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 03:16 PM EST (#140921) #

"Take out Hillenbrand, and you're relying on Hinske to hold down the fort."

I don't understand this at all. Hinske can play 3B and so can Hill. Overbay, Hinske, and Phillips can all play 1B. The Jays need versatility in the MI, not at corner. (Todd Walker I think would be a great addition for example.)

Glevin - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 03:18 PM EST (#140922) #

Gibbons and J.P. disagree over who should hit leadoff against righties. J.P. wants Cat (the right choice) and Gibbons wants Adams (bad choice).
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1139526651888&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 03:31 PM EST (#140924) #

Is Todd Walker available? He'd be a better DH than Hillenbrand for goodness sakes, plus he could man 2nd base when need be.

VBF - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 03:38 PM EST (#140925) #

I just got off the phone with a member of the Blue Jays, and he told me--you won't believe this, in fact I'm not sure that I do--but they've sold 40,000 seats for Opening Day to date. And because they've cut the club level down to only 800 seats (according to the Star article today), the capacity is less than the usual 50,000.

Now we've all been to some Opening Days when the announced crowd is 50,000 but there's alot of empty seats on the 500 level, so I'm not exactly sure what "40,000" means, but I'm pretty sure it isn't a bad thing. Single game seats go on sale tomorrow.

Get those credit cards ready for tomorrow morning because this place could sell out before Bengie Molina picks up his glove.

VBF - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 03:39 PM EST (#140926) #

That should read "member of the Blue Jays ticketing office".

Geoff - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 03:39 PM EST (#140927) #

Hinske can play 3B and so can Hill... The Jays need versatility in the MI, not at corner.

If MI versatility is needed, how could you solve the depth problem at 3rd by suggsting Hill as a backup 3B? Or would Hinske and Hattig be your only options if Glaus is injured? And thus depleting your outfield options if Hinske is to be used there.

Trading Shea would have made sense if J.P. kept Koskie and lived with his contract rather than pay someone else to take it.

So what if Shea is making $2 million or less in excess of what you think he should get. Is it the money or do you just not want him on the team? Are you worried he'll set a precedent for the Jays' other players?

I've struggled with understanding why Shea earns more money than many other players with not much less experience, but it is what it is. Shea has an experience factor that brings him more dough and let's hope he can parlay his experience into a career year. Bengie Molina can't replace him, nor can Phillips. [And if you don't use Molina or Zaun as a DH, there isn't a necessity of carrying a third catcher.]

Glevin - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 03:47 PM EST (#140928) #

"If MI versatility is needed, how could you solve the depth problem at 3rd by suggsting Hill as a backup 3B? Or would Hinske and Hattig be your only options if Glaus is injured? And thus depleting your outfield options if Hinske is to be used there"

If you got another viable MI option (say, Todd Walker) and traded Hillenbrand, this would leave the Jays with 3 options at 3B (Glaus/Hinske/Hill/), 3 at SS (Adams/Hill/Mcdonald), 3 at 2B (Hill/Walker/McDonald), and 5 in the OF (Wells/Cat/Rios/Johnson/Hinske). Enough depth to cover any injury. Right now, an injury or regression for Hill or Adams means a full-time job for Mcdonald. IMO, a plausable and fatal scenario.

Mike Green - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 03:53 PM EST (#140929) #

Todd Walker? He's 32, and has been used in a platoon role for the last two years as a left-handed hitter. When used as a regular player, he had an OPS+ of 100 between age 28-30. I don't see the evidence that he's a better hitter than Hillenbrand, and at this point, with Halladay and Burnett hopefully giving you lots of ground balls near the second baseman, you don't want to ever see him in the field in a non-emergency situation.

Many of us (myself included) had harsh words last year about the acquisition of Hillenbrand (I believe Robert Dudek may have used the word mediocre approximately 16 times in a sentence). Granting that this year's salary figure might have caused renewed feelings of despair, I think that we have beaten this question to a pulp and that it is time to move on.

vw_fan17 - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:03 PM EST (#140930) #

>I just think Durazo could be the cheapest 400 at bats worth
>of .900 OBP you'll ever find

Hmm.. Wonder what the market for a .900 OBP player actually is? Hasn't been one of those in a while, as I recall.. :-)

I'd think such a player would easily be worth $50M/year and probably more..

VW

joemayo - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:10 PM EST (#140932) #

they've sold 40,000 seats for Opening Day to date

i'm not sure if i believe it either, but if it's true, it sucks for those of us who were hoping to land good seats...

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:16 PM EST (#140934) #

Green: I agree that this has been beaten to a pulp, but the fact remains Hillenbrand is a mediocrity who costs the team 6 mill a year.

Those who accept mediocrity cannot expect excellence.

Take a step back and look at this club (yeah the moves we've made have been tremendous) but 2 obvious inefficiencies/weaknesses persist; the presence of both Hillenbrand and Hinske on the roster and the lack of a bona fide RF.

2006 presents an historic opportunity to turn this franchise around, why leave such a glaring hole in RF? Why pay a mediocre offensive player 6 million bucks to DH when similar results could be obtained via platoons.

Don't accept it!

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:19 PM EST (#140935) #

Thanks VW, as a Wells fan I'm surprised you're familiar with OBP at all.

I obviously meant OPS.

Geoff - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:20 PM EST (#140936) #

Then you are presuming Hillenbrand would be traded for a MI, no less an injury-prone and poor-fielding one. I understand that Baker doesn't want Walker to be traded, but I hear Soriano is available, worse defensively, also suspect to injury concern, and more expensive.

Then if/when Glaus and the new 2B go down to injury, you have Hinske and Hill at 3rd, Adams, Hill or Mcdonald in MI, Overbay and Phillips at 1B? and Wells, Cat, Rios and Johnson in the OF, and Molina, Zaun and Phillips behind the plate.

Then...you go out and spend more money or good prospects on improving the team depth because this should be the year?

Shea is here, he wants to play. Maybe he'll repeat his strong first half last year twice this year. He's here. He's not that damn expensive. Isn't he a free agent next year?

VBF - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:24 PM EST (#140937) #

i'm not sure if i believe it either, but if it's true, it sucks for those of us who were hoping to land good seats...

Well, I really don't think they pull numbers out of nowhere, even as strangely massive that number is. If you go to bluejays.com and do a mock purchase of a flex pack, the tickets they hold for you aren't very good, so they run parallel to the number of seats they claim to have sold.

The last thing want to do is watch the Halladay/Santana matchup from the upper 500 level.

Geoff - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:25 PM EST (#140938) #

How do you propose turning Hinske and Hillenbrand into more useful players for the Jays?

What transaction would make the Jays so much better and not hurt their financial books more than holding onto them, and not shave their farm of needed prospects?

Sometimes utopia can't be reached. It's been a productive offseason. Accept this mediocrity, in all its glory.

Mike D - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:39 PM EST (#140939) #

This is the Hillenbrand and Walker signing thread, so even though my learned brother Mike Green is 100% correct that this is a tired argument, you guys can bash away so long as it doesn't show up in subsequent unrelated threads.

Leaving aside the "mediocre" point, which Shea clearly was not in either of the last two seasons, there is one last plea for common sense I'd like to make, and it is this:

Don't underestimate the value of Shea's durability. The other day, Leigh made allowances for "versatility and character" in response to my earlier argument, but I didn't mention character; I mentioned durability. Shea Hillenbrand may not have the rate stats of some of his peers, but he doesn't have to be sheltered from tough lefties or tough righties and he will very likely stay healthy. That's valuable.

What contributes more value to a team -- 150 games of Shea, 80 games of a possibly-not-healthy, possibly-still-sucking Durazo or 35 games of a 38-year-old Big Hurt? Shea's rate stats will definitely be lower than those of Thomas, one of the most skilled offensive players in history. They will possibly be lower than Durazo's (though they were way, way higher than Erubiel's last year). But even when production is merely solid -- average, even -- an ability to play every day against any pitcher is very valuable. Why else is only $500,000 of Thomas's $3.1 million guaranteed?

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:51 PM EST (#140940) #

Mike D: Shea is the definition of mediocre, his career OPS plus is 100.

When you consider he will be utilized primarily as a DH an OPS plus hovering above 100 the past 2 seasons doesn't imply above average performance.

Character, the guy has been with the team for 1 season and has proven himself to be nothing but a mercenary journeyman throughout his career (with a state preference for playing in Boston).

I'll root for him when he's up to bat but I am not at all happy that he is still on our roster.

As we appear to be at a dialectic impasse I'll refrain from making this any further.

I will not however stop thinking big.

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 04:59 PM EST (#140941) #

Durazo Career OPS plus 125

Durazo Career Best OPS plus 136 (min 500 PA)

Hillenbrand Career OPS plus 100

Hillenbrand Career best OPS 109

Roll the dice on this guy even if we keep Shea around.

If he gets healthy we punt Hilly.

Mike D - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 05:02 PM EST (#140942) #

Why don't we exhume and sign Babe Ruth? His career OPS+ is over 200.

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 05:09 PM EST (#140943) #

Yeah you're right citing the stats of available FA's is pointless.

Resorting to "character" to defend a baseball related decision is akin to describing the blind date you've set up for a superficial buddy as "a great person".

Mike D - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 05:21 PM EST (#140944) #

I'm only going to take the bait to clarify two things.

First, you chose career stats to minimize the 2005 performance of both players, because that would cut strongly against your argument that Durazo's better. You're welcome to use any stats you want (and I apologize for my sarcasm), but career OPS is considerably less relevant to a player's evaluation when a player is severely injured and coming off a year showing signs of major decline. Isn't it? I'm pretty sure Rickey Henderson is technically a free agent. How relevant are his career stats right now?

Second, I *didn't* mention character. I distinguished durability, which I did mention, from character, which I did not. I'm keeping my opinion of his character to myself because it's not necessary to make my point.

rtcaino - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 05:51 PM EST (#140945) #

"And if you want a bit of a tease, his number one Jays prospect is not Dustin McGowan."

I wonder who? League and Purcey don't have great ratios, but they have been at and near the top of his lists before.

Lind would not surprise me. But I don't know how crazy he is about lower level performances.

I also wonder what our highest rating will be. I don�t see us with any A+ prospects. But I�d put McGowan at at least an A- (may be biased though� plus I�m not an expert).

Rickster - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 05:55 PM EST (#140946) #

I just looked at Durazo's stats:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/durazer01.shtml
Some notes:
He is 32 years old.
He has had over 500 PAs twice.
He has a career high of 22 HRs and 80 rbis (both 2004).
He has played a total of 38 games in the field since 2003.
He struck out 105 times in his last full season.
He has just had a serious operation, and will not be available til mid June.
Most similar player through age 31: John Jaha.

Discuss.

Ducey - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 06:07 PM EST (#140948) #

I can see it now: Newton, he of the high voice and four hooves, takes time out of his adventures with Hercules to become GM of the Blue Jays. He turns back time and non tenders Shea Hillenbrand, making him a free agent. The next day, he signs Durazo to a $3,000,000 guaranteed contract plus incentives that could bring the deal to $6 million.

When asked by Jeff Blair to explain what the Jays would do at DH given that Durazo was out until at least the all star break, Newton, with Toot (having replaced Keith Law) by his side, stated "I have this irrational hunch he'll rebound faster than people think". The team physician, finding himself of little use, quits shortly afterwards.

greenfrog - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 06:23 PM EST (#140951) #

I'm guessing McGowan rates as a B+ prospect. Although he's made great strides, he is still a work in progress. One report this off-season said that his fastball is not all the way back yet (shades of Rosario?). And although his changeup is improving, I'm not sure his secondary stuff is strong enough to make him an A prospect. He has yet to post really strong numbers in the minors or majors. I still have high hopes, though.

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 07:09 PM EST (#140954) #

Ducey: Fortunately there have been more famous Newtons throughout history than the memorable cartoon minotaur you cite.

Durazo won't cost anywhere near 3 mill guaranteed this season. He is a potential difference maker available at a bargain price. Snap him up. We could even sign him and keep Shea as I suggested above.

If we had non-tendered Hillenbrand we'd have... Koskie to DH, who has more offensive upside than Hillenbrand and is a better defender than Hillenbrand! Glaus' psyche be damned.

How tough is it to replace a DH with a 105 range OPS plus anyway?

I'm not saying JP hasn't done a fine job attracting talent to T.O. I'm just saying there are obvious, blindingly obvious, areas that require his continued attention.

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 07:12 PM EST (#140955) #

To be clear I don't consider Hilly at DH as a weakness per se. A mediocrity at any one position isn't necessarily a weakness, but an overpaid, internally replaceable mediocrity is an inefficient use of resources that should be put towards our RF situation.

Durazo is more of a flier, if he returns to his 2001-2004 form (yes he did have a bad 150 or so at bats in a season in which he required TJ surgery) he steps in as our 2nd best hitter behind Glaus, well ahead of everyone else.

Cristian - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 07:21 PM EST (#140956) #

Does Batter's Box have a Primey equivalent? If so, I nominate Ducey's post. If not, I propose the creation of the Boxies and nominate Ducey's post.

CaramonLS - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 08:03 PM EST (#140957) #

One thing we need to factor in: The amount of money we are paying Milwaukee to have Koskie.

Basically, that is 3.6 million per season it Averages out to be.

9.4 Million for Hillenbrand OR ~ 6 million for Koskie.

Corey is a Career .870 OPS vs. RHP, if you platoon DHed him with Phillips, you'd have a very formidable Backup for 3B (who could play for Glaus in the off days) as well as be your primary DH.

Even last year, in his Slump/Injury plagued season, he still had an .802 OPS vs. RHP.

Overall, I just think Hillenbrand is a waste of money unless he really improves on his play last season.

Matthew E - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 08:55 PM EST (#140959) #

Fortunately there have been more famous Newtons throughout history than the memorable cartoon minotaur you cite.

Minotaur?!

He's a centaur! What kind of a baseball site is this where people don't know the difference between a minotaur and a centaur?

John Northey - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 08:56 PM EST (#140960) #

The problem with the idea of keeping Koskie and dumping Hillenbrand back in December (when the Jays would've non-tendered Hillenbrand) would've been what to do at DH (Glaus wasn't here until the 28th of December, non-tendering deadline was on the 20th) and once Glaus got here what to do with Koskie (traded January 6th) as he might be a very unhappy camper at DH. JP has tried hard to avoid 'cancers' in the clubhouse and Koskie easily could've become one as a full time DH.

In the end, Hillenbrand is 2 years younger and a heck of a lot more likely to stay healthy. $3.6 million (the difference between keeping one or the other) for a guy who is healthier, happier (at DH), younger, and more productive by any measure last season. Seems an easy choice. Plus it gave the Jays more leverage in their trade talks with Arizona as they could've walked away (no idea what difference it made, but I'd think it made some difference).

melondough - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 08:56 PM EST (#140961) #

Newton, I have to say that I think you have talked yourself into liking Durazo more than you really should. With the number of e-mails you have written and the conviction and support you give him, I have to wonder if Durazo is a relative...HE IS NOT THAT GOOD.

Now changing gears for a moment, I wonder how many of you would have taken Garciaparra this year over Hillenbrand (seeing that we could use a DH/MI).

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 09:52 PM EST (#140962) #

Perhaps you are right, but a healthy Durazo would be our 2nd best offensive player.

The real point is Hillenbrand is a terribly inefficient use of a scare resource; money.

After we acquired Glaus we had a choice between Koskie and Hillenbrand, we chose Hillenbrand. Taking it back to the point of the non-tender option is not really relevant. I still believe Koskie was dealt more for Glaus' sake than for anyone else.

CaramonLS - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 10:04 PM EST (#140963) #

You think Koskie would have become a Cancer if used as full time DH?

I'm not privy to any inside information, but that is a pretty powerful statement.

This guys dream was to play for the Jays, I somehow don't think he'd be *that* upset if Asked to DH some of the time. Especially with the Alternative being to play for the Brewers.

CaramonLS - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 10:13 PM EST (#140964) #

Oh, and even after we tendered Hillenbrand, I beleive there would have at least been a couple of takers.

At worst you could have traded him for a bag of baseballs w/o taking on Salary.

Paul D - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 10:22 PM EST (#140965) #

This guys dream was to play for the Jays, I somehow don't think he'd be *that* upset if Asked to DH some of the time. Especially with the Alternative being to play for the Brewers. Are there any quotes to back this up? Seems to me his dream was to play for the Twins, and he lived that dream.

Ducey - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 10:27 PM EST (#140966) #

Newton are you sure you are not the infamous centaur of cartoon fame? I can sure see you walking next to Hercules saying: "He would be our second best hitter Herc, our second best hitter!"

I'm giving you a bit of a hard time but mostly because you keep repeating yourself over and over. We got it. Last post doesn't win.

VBF - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 10:40 PM EST (#140967) #

He said that he dreamed of being Jay and playing at the RC since he was a kid at his press conference.

Koskie isn't the type of player to ever be a cancer, but he was very open to JP about his unwillingness to play the outfield according to Jeff Blair a few weeks ago. I can only imagine he'd be more vocal about his displeasure to not playing defense at all (Unless his concern was injury--but if he cared about getting injured, he wouldn't jump into 5 rows of Yankee Stadium fans).

Rickster - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 10:47 PM EST (#140968) #

Maybe Newton has a time machine and will sign Durazo ca. 2004....
Did you ever consider that?

Jokes aside, Durazo may be a nifty part-time DH / PH in the second half, but nothing more than that. But the guy is an immobile injury waiting to happen. I wouldn't pay him more than the minimum, and I'd rather have JFG for the minimum - at least he has potential!

Though it would be fun to see who would win a race to first between Molina and Durazo...

Newton - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 10:51 PM EST (#140969) #

Just staying on message Ducey...

Named For Hank - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 11:20 PM EST (#140970) #

This guys dream was to play for the Jays, I somehow don't think he'd be *that* upset if Asked to DH some of the time. Especially with the Alternative being to play for the Brewers.

The Brewers, who he almost played for until the Jays offered him crazy money? The Brewers who offered him then and have extended to him now the promise of a front office position when his playing days are done?

I believe that the Jays traded Koskie to the Brewers not because they were the only takers, but because Corey would be happy there.

Named For Hank - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 11:23 PM EST (#140971) #

Though it would be fun to see who would win a race to first between Molina and Durazo...

Is it mean to bet your money on home plate?

VBF - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 11:33 PM EST (#140972) #

Only if you're a Gretzky :)

King Ryan - Friday, February 10 2006 @ 11:39 PM EST (#140973) #

I'll bet Jason Phillips is slower than either of them.

eeleye - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 01:26 AM EST (#140974) #

You guys are funny. But the fact is, everything is DONE. I like Hillenbrand at DH. I think Durazo is great: so great that, once this season is over and Hillenbrand is gone, we should snap up Durazo to be his replacement. He will be a PERFECT fit for a 3-year contract at that point. It would be a risk because of his question of recovery, but hey, maybe that 3 years will be worth only about 12 million dollars. (But after they've agree to a 3-yr, $12 million deal, JP will take the extra step and give him another 7 million dollars just for the heck of it anyway.)

zaptom - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 01:28 AM EST (#140975) #

I'm pretty sure Rickey Henderson is technically a free agent. How relevant are his career stats right now?

He's not a free agent anymore. The Mets have continued their spending spree to sign him... as an instructor.
http://tinyurl.com/ddrhh

CeeBee - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 08:02 AM EST (#140976) #

Newton and anyone else that has a real dislike of Hillenbrand being on the Jays. Take solice in the knowledge that the odds are extrememly high that this will be his last year as a member of the Jays. Given his current salary and the looming free agent status I can't see JP offering him the long term big money deal that I'm sure he will want. In fact you may get your wish earlier than the off-season if the Jays are not in contention as there would be a possibility for a trade at the deadline even.
As for me, I like Hilly a fair bit, but I don't love him blindly and I would like more production at DH as well. That said, the options that have been vociferously discussed may not have been any better so I can quite easily live with this lineup for the time being. Come August we will have a better idea whether JP's plan is working but for now I'm going to just enjoy baseball. :)
Bring on Spring Training where hope rests eternal and every rookie who hits a couple of homers is the next Babe, and every team has no wins, no losses and thinks they can win a world series. :)

Geoff - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 12:37 PM EST (#140979) #

Bring on Spring Training where hope rests eternal and every rookie who hits a couple of homers is the next Babe...

No need to tout J-F Griffin as the next Babe this year. Mike D. is planning to bring the Babe to camp.

I'm looking forward to the Orioles having a good first couple months and thinking playoffs again. That was great last year.

Geoff - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 12:41 PM EST (#140980) #

Also watch out for Brian Tallet to be the next Cy Young in camp. He gave up only one run in 10 innings last spring with the Indians!

HollywoodHartman - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 12:44 PM EST (#140982) #

Too bad we DFA'd him.

zeppelinkm - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 01:25 PM EST (#140984) #

Hey guys, I'm new to battersbox. I've been reading the site for a while but just recently registered and I had a couple questions.

I am a huge baseball fan, have been my whole life, but I guess I never got into these super-statistics that are available now and I don't fully (or even partially understand!) in some cases what they are or represent.

The first one is in regards to these things:

"Option #1 .291/.343/.449 (792 OPS)

Option #2 .280/.357/.457 (814 OPS)"

I know they represent batting average, OBP, and slugging percentage, but what does OPS represent? Obviously a combination of those but how do they arrive at the OPS number?

I apologize if this was the inappropriate place to ask this question, and if it should be moved to a different thread please do so!

I will ask other questions as they come. Here is my input to the debate about the value of Hillenbrand versus Durazo.

I like the resigning of Hillenbrand. He's been a very reliable and consistent performer over the past 4 seasons. Like of like investing in an non-exciting slow growth company that is low risk with a solid return. Averaging between .280 and .310 each of those seasons, between 15 - 20 home runs, 80 - 100 rbi's, 35 - 45 doubles, with the biggest variance in runs scored, between 60 and 94, he's been consistent and reliable indeed. Generally you'd like to see more production out of your DH, true. But Shea isn't just a DH, he can play the field adequently too, which provides greater flexibility and options for the Jays. He's also played over 134 games each of the last 4 seasons. You know what you're going to get outta Shea, which means you can plan around him nicely.

Durazo is the high risk but high return investment option. Over the past four seasons his average has ranged from .237 to .321. His home run/rbi's/run's scored, etc, has been very erratic due to the fact he only played close to a full season in two of the last four years, with two of those seasons seeing him playing 41 and 76 games which combined are still less then the least amount of games Shea has played in any one of the last four seasons. The only thing he's consistently done better then Shea is just get on base. His homeruns, rbi's, runs scored, are all comparable to Shea.

Personally, he's just too risky for the Jays right now. They have a lot of guys they are banking on having great seasons to compete this year - Wells, Rios needs to step up, Adams and Hill have to improve on last years debuts, and Burnett has increased expectations as well. You need something reliable in there, and Shea is just that.

einsof - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 01:35 PM EST (#140985) #

Zeppelink -- Check out this site:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/statpages/glossary/

6-4-3 - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 01:37 PM EST (#140986) #

OPS is just on base percetnage added together with slugging percentage. So, you just combine how often a guy gets on base with how many bases he usually gets.

Bsaeball reference has a good glossary for stats like this : http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/bat_glossary.shtml . This includes OPS+, which is better than just OPS because it adjusts for the park the player plays in, and the league averages.

zeppelinkm - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 02:12 PM EST (#140991) #

Thanks very much guys, book markin em so I don't have to ask anymore!

HollywoodHartman - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 02:12 PM EST (#140992) #

Is the player example in the BBREF glossary Eric Chavez? (I just checked it is.) So... What do I win?

Mike D - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 02:14 PM EST (#140993) #

Don't worry, Zeppelink. In fact, I'm glad you asked -- we've been getting a lot of Jays fans surfing onto Batter's Box who are probably wondering about the same things. Don't ever hesitate to ask -- it'll help you follow the discussions and debates.

greenfrog - Saturday, February 11 2006 @ 05:57 PM EST (#141006) #

One thing I've wondered about are some of the derivative stats: WARP, WARP2, PECOTA, VORP, RCAA, etc. Baseball Prospectus has some brief definitions but I'm not sure how these things are calculated.

Matt - Sunday, February 12 2006 @ 01:58 PM EST (#141021) #

I'd like to make a point on the Hillenbrand matter that has avoided the discourse of debate so far.

This is Hilly's first true FA contract year. This guy has a huge incentive to play like he normally does in May all year long.

It's as if Shea is on the audition stage, vying for a lucrative longterm deal, for 29 other teams (or maybe even this one, who knows?).

I'll be very surprised if that doesn't bring the best out in 2006. If that doesn't, I can't say I know what will.

VBF - Sunday, February 12 2006 @ 02:55 PM EST (#141022) #

I don't really buy that at all. How can a player just turn it on if he wants to? And even if he could, he'd be foolish not to do it in non-contract years, where he could build a reputation as a consistently great hitter.

CaramonLS - Sunday, February 12 2006 @ 03:16 PM EST (#141023) #

The subconcious mind is something which is a relative unknown. These things can have a big impact.

Although Hillenbrand might not directly try to "turn it on" because he is a free agent to be, his preformance might improve because of it because of the added incentive in his subconcious.

Of course, we'll never know if that is the case if he has a big year or not.

John Northey - Sunday, February 12 2006 @ 10:54 PM EST (#141035) #

The best of Shea? Looking at good ol' Baseball Reference...

His OPS+ by year... 77 109 95 106 108 - outside of his rookie year very consistant.

OPS: 682 789 782 812 792 - again, very consistant

OBP: 291 330 314 348 343 - huh, visable improvement the past 2 years. Didn't expect that.

Slg: 391 459 468 464 449 - again, outside of the rookie year very consistant - 449 to 468.

So, Shea's peaks - 310/348/468 = 816 OPS vs last seasons 792

To me Shea is a very consistant player. He'll produce slightly above league average offense with decent defence when called upon. At $5.8 million a bit overpaid given the average player on the Jays gets $3 million (25 players, $75 million payroll) but consistancy is worth something. He is what he is - consistant and average. To expect him to suddenly produce at a higher level due to free agency...well...I just don't see it happening.

6-4-3 - Sunday, February 12 2006 @ 11:18 PM EST (#141037) #

What's amazing is that Shea's OPB has gone up the past two years despite the fact that his discipline has actually slipped. His walks have remained almost identical (despite more playing time), but in 2004 his BA spiked at .310, and in 2005 he got hit 22 times, leading the league.

eeleye - Sunday, February 12 2006 @ 11:54 PM EST (#141039) #

Do stolen bases count as total bases, i.e. towards sluggin percentage?

6-4-3 - Monday, February 13 2006 @ 12:00 AM EST (#141040) #

No. Slugging percentage is Total Bases / At Bats, and total bases just is singles *1 + doubles *2 + triples *3 + homers *4.

eeleye - Monday, February 13 2006 @ 11:05 AM EST (#141052) #

Sosa is considering retirement afte being insulted by an offer of $500,000 by the Nationals, who won't wait. WHy don't the Jays sign him for something cheap but a little more and stick him in RF?

Joseph Krengel - Monday, February 13 2006 @ 11:28 AM EST (#141054) #

Because he's quite simply not worth anything more than that. For all that we knock Rios, his OPS was actually HIGHER than Sosa's last year. He gives you better defense, doesn't poison the clubhouse, and his contract is manageable for the long run. Given attendance in Baltimore last year Sosa doesn't seem like a draw anymore either, so signing him would accomplish little.

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