Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Repairing the Sox-the Loretta and Marte acquisitions

Repairing the Sox-the Loretta and Marte acquisitions

The Red Sox have acquired top prospect Andy Marte for Edgar Renteria. With the previous acquisition of Mark Loretta, both the Sox infield and their offence has undergone a substantial renovation. Further changes may be in store, but it's a good time to take stock. Thanks to Cristian and Chuck for alerting us to the trade.

As of this moment, the trades leave the Sox with Loretta at second, Marte at third, and no established shortstop. Presumably Mike Lowell moves from third to first with the current personnel. The trading of both Hanley Ramirez and Edgar Renteria might seem odd, but the Sox do have a plan C at shortstop in the event that other transactions do not come to fruition. That would be Dustin Pedroia. Pedroia rocketed through the Sox farm system, hitting very well at every level. This summer after promotion to triple A Pawtucket, his hitting suffered apparently due to a July wrist injury, but he still posted a very sweet 25/17 W/K ratio.

So, where does that leave the Sox as of today? A Marte, Pedroia, Loretta, Lowell infield would likely be a significant improvement over last year's Mueller, Renteria, Bellhorn, Millar configuration. An offence with Loretta, Pedroia, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, Jason Varitek, Andy Marte and Trot Nixon should lead the league in runs scored. The Sox no longer need above average offence out of their centerfielder. What they need is a centerfielder who plays good defence and speed. They will not need to break the bank for that.

Other moves may be coming, but it looks to me like the Sox have done very well so far, despite the departure of Theo Epstein. We'll come back to the topic in March, with a fuller look at the offence and the pitching.

Posted by Mike Green on Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 12:58 PM EST.

Repairing the Sox-the Loretta and Marte acquisitions | 70 comments | Create New Account

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Twilight - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 01:34 PM EST (#135534) #

They also Rule 5'd Jamie Vermilyea, so it'll be fun to hit against him next year. hehe

Jordan - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 01:35 PM EST (#135536) #

The Red Sox aren't rebuilding, they're reloading. Make no mistake, the Jays are still facing a juggernaut in their own divison: this club has front-office brains, player talent, a good farm system and money to burn. They're getting out from under the worst of their long-term contracts and assembling a powerful collection of young talent. The road ahead will not be easy for Toronto.

Mike Green - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 02:09 PM EST (#135543) #

For fun, here's our 2005 preview Roundtable on the Sox.

Pistol - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 02:33 PM EST (#135548) #

Rosenthal says that the Sox are paying $11 million of the $29 million due to Renteria the next three years.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5149298

The Sox will now have an entire new infield this year. And if Damon isn't signed and Ramirez is traded all they're left with from last year's lineup is Nixon, Veritek and Ortiz. That'd be quite a bit of turnover.

Cristian - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 02:47 PM EST (#135552) #

Wow. When I suggested dangling Hill or Adams to Atlanta for Marte, I was laughed at. I was told there was no way Atlanta would trade Marte. Obviously Atlanta wanted a more established player at short and are gambling that that Renteria rebounds back in the NL. Renteria at 6M for 3 years is a decent gamble. Still it would have been nice to get Marte.

Jevant - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 02:56 PM EST (#135555) #

The Loretta trade was an absolute steal for the Sox, unbelievable, really. But the Renteria was also a shocker, simply because of the aggressive push they made to sign him last year.

Does this mean the Sox will get back into the Nomar sweepstakes?

Hamboy - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 03:03 PM EST (#135558) #

I don't know how true it is, but Sox are to flip Marte & other pieces to Rays for Lugo and Huff. That would make Huff at 1B, Lorreta at 2B, Lugo at SS, and Lowell at 3B. That would make completely new infield for them...

Gitz - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 03:33 PM EST (#135567) #

That's a bad trade for Atlanta. Sure, Marte could flop as any number of rookies do, but 21-year-old third basemen who slug .500 in the minors don't grow on corn fields. Renteria has had two truly good years, and now that he is on the back end of his career, he's highly unlikely to go back to those levels of production. In three years, this trade will look very bad for the Braves -- and if Renteria is as mediocre as he was with Boston last year, it could look bad starting this season.

Loretta for Mirabelli? Even if Loretta retreats to his pre-2003 form, as he did last year, he's a valuable guy to have around: he'll take a walk, he'll hit close to .300, and he plays decent defence. I don't know what the Padres were thinking.

Hodgie - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 03:56 PM EST (#135582) #

I find it amazing that the RedSox are continually lauded for what, at first blush, are moves with significant risks attached.

Loretta, if healthy is possibly good acquisition, but we are talking about a 34 year old player that has exactly 3 seasons where he has played 150+ games in a 9+ year career and is more likely to decline than maintain/improve his current level.

To expect Josh Beckett, a pitcher with exactly zero 200 inning seasons to his credit to shake his history of DL visits is extremely optimistic. For that risk the Sox are also paying an additional $7.5 Million for a 30 year old third basemen that was arguably the worst everyday 3B in the majors last year. Oh yes, and they gave up there #1 position prospect and two grade B pitching prospects for that honour.

Not stopping there, they are now paying Atlanta a significant amount of cash to take their only viable shortstop off their hands, and should they not trade Marte to TB for Lugo, the left side of their infield will now consist of two very young rookies with almost no MLB exposure.

If the Jays had done this, they would be laughed out of the winter meetings.

R Billie - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 03:59 PM EST (#135583) #

Kind of makes me appreciate the fact that JP can find very decent value for the dollar at catcher up to this point. Eventhough I don't love all of his other moves.

I don't know what's happening in Atlanta. Apparently their backup plan to losing Furcal was to make a completely ill advised panic move. It's not as if there were other teams clamouring at Boston's door for Renteria at his current performance and salary commitment. This trade doesn't make sense for the Braves on any level.

Meanwhile, Boston and Tampa Bay seem to keep finding a way to get GREAT assets for their average to pretty good players. Lugo was actually worth quite a lot as a two-way shortstop, much more than Renteria. Even if Boston flips Marte instead of keeping his immense potential they get better AND cheaper at shortstop.

It's great that the Jays are putting a lot of money into the roster but I hope we start seeing JP making some of these kinds of moves to cycle in fresh young talent and not just be completely focused on plugging in mid-range veterans at every position.

Mike D - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:01 PM EST (#135585) #

A Marte, Pedroia, Loretta, Lowell infield would likely be a significant improvement over last year's Mueller, Renteria, Bellhorn, Millar configuration.

I would replace "would likely" with "could, provided Marte and Pedroia are ready offensively and defensively to seamlessly adjust to the big leagues, and provided Loretta bounces back, and provided Lowell really bounces back."

Look, these were all good moves. But let's not be too sanguine about the ability of all four question marks turning into resounding exclamation points. It reminds me of the A's last year and analysts tossing out lines like "Well, Meyer and Haren will more than replace Hudson and Mulder. Moving on to the rest of the team..."

It was miraculous, and to Billy Beane's credit, that one of those two stayed healthy and performed at a very high level. It is a long, long way from "likely" that the Bosox went 4-for-4 here.

Mike Green - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:11 PM EST (#135593) #

Perhaps, I should clarify that. I meant defensively. It won't be hard. The Sox infield defence was very poor last year. Loretta is a far better fielder than Bellhorn. Lowell will be a better defensive first baseman than Millar. Renteria was a huge disappointment defensively, and Pedroia should be better.

What I expect from them offensively:

Marte:.270/.330/.430
Pedroia: .280/.350/.400
Loretta: .300/.370/.410
Lowell: .275/.345/.480

Remember that Marte was almost universally considered to be a better prospect than David Wright entering 2004, and had a fine 2005 campaign where he evened out his W/K at triple A.

Mike D - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:20 PM EST (#135602) #

Those are aggressively optimistic projections, Mike. If you offered those seasons to the Sox, they'd accept them in a heartbeat. I don't think any of those figures are what I would call "expectations." Still, of the four, I'd rank the likelihood of meeting or beating those numbers as follows: Loretta; Marte; [big gap] Lowell/Pedroia.

Mike D - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:21 PM EST (#135603) #

Put another way, I'd give you odds on Lowell slugging .480 in 2006.

Craig B - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:22 PM EST (#135604) #

I'd be surprised if Pedroia produces as well offensively in 2006 as Russ Adams did in 2005.

robertdudek - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:22 PM EST (#135605) #

Other than the Marlins, the Red Sox might end up being the most "remodelled" ballclub this offseason.

For the most part, I like what they are doing. Loretta is a good bet to give them above average offense at the position. Marte is obviously a great prospect and might be included in an upcoming blockbuster deal. I'd prefer to see Youkilis at first base, but they may try him at third and send Marte to AAA if they can't trade him.

Speaking of which - how would you like to be a Marlins fan? It has to be the most bittersweet of experiences - two world championships and two absolute demolitions of the team, in less than a decade.

You might think that they are setting themselves up for a championship run in 2012, but just because they rebuilt themselves into a contender and cashed in on their one opportunity, doesn't mean it's likely to happen again.

Mike D - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:27 PM EST (#135610) #

I agree, Robert, and I also really like what the Red Sox are doing. I just disagree with the notion that all of their moves will result in an immediate upgrade.

I think Craig's right about Pedroia. I also think that a defensive rebound by Renteria is more likely than an offensive rebound by Lowell, or a healthy season from Loretta.

If they flip Marte for Lugo, and play Lowell at third and Youkilis at first...I think that could be an immediately improved offensive infield.

Hodgie - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:42 PM EST (#135623) #

I fail to see how replacing Renteria with Lugo would offer a significant upgrade offensively. Lugo, in his career year last year was marginally better than Renteria. Most of Lugo's value is tied to his SB, an aspect of the game the Sox don't even utilize.

Magpie - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:51 PM EST (#135632) #

a completely ill advised panic move.

I'd be inclined to agree if I hadn't said almost exactly the same thing about trading Millwood for Estrada. I now have a more or less superstitious faith in everything the Braves do.

Jacko - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:53 PM EST (#135633) #

I'd be surprised if Pedroia produces as well offensively in 2006 as Russ Adams did in 2005

When I read about Pedroia, the first MLB player I think of is David Eckstein. Who, ironically enough, was also drafted by the Red Sox.

Almost all "little guy" players, regardless of how they hit in the minors, fail to hit for significant power in MLB. The only counterexample I can think of right now is Marcus Giles (who is a freak of nature).

Jacko - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 04:58 PM EST (#135636) #

Maybe they see Lugo as their replacement in the leadoff spot, assuming they don't sign Johnny Damon.

However, Marte looks like something special. From his numbers, he looks like a clone of David Wright (who himself is a Scott Rolen clone). Unlike Lugo, those are the types of players you can build teams around.

And speaking of Damon, are there any other decent centerfielders left on the market?

Matthew E - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 06:22 PM EST (#135652) #

Shouldn't this article be called 'Darning the Sox'?

Because we do that too.

rtcaino - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 09:07 PM EST (#135671) #

From Blair:

The last day provided one of the best highlights of the meetings � the annual fleecing of another club by the Atlanta Braves and John Schuerholz.

Schuerholz looked like he wanted to get out of town before the Boston Red Sox changed their minds about sending him four-time All-Star shortstop Edgar Renteria and � what the heck - $8-million for Andy Marte, an infield prospect who the Red Sox � of course � will play in the outfield.

Scherholz apologized in advance, saying he had a flight to catch. He answered a couple of questions absent-mindedly, then scurried away with a briefcase leaving poor Bill Lajoie to explain to Red Sox Nation why it was they didn't have a shortstop.

The Red Sox might get Alex Gonzalez. Or Royce Clayton �

No wonder Ricciardi keeps telling me he won't trade with Schuerholz. Ever...

//

Bit of a different spin on the trade. A fleecing eh.

Glevin - Thursday, December 08 2005 @ 11:28 PM EST (#135695) #

I don't mind the trade for Atlanta, but Renteria is overrated. It's the same mentality when so many newspaper writers lauded Washington for landing Christian Guzman and Vinny Castilla. Marte is just a stud and prospects like him are rare. (When was the last time tha Jays had one?). Renterie is a decent player, many writers often don't look at the larger picture beyond the names they know.

robertdudek - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 12:53 AM EST (#135708) #

The difference is Renteria is a good player and Guzman is a very bad one.

TamRa - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 01:41 AM EST (#135712) #

What kind of idiot trades Marte for Julio Lugo?

What kind of insane idiot turns it down?

What am I missing here.....?

Chuck - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 07:49 AM EST (#135721) #

With Tejada squawking about wanting to be traded, could this set up a potential Ramirez-for-Tejada move? I would imagine that the likelihood would be close to nil, but what if the Sox were to throw in Marte to offset the salary differential?

Mike D - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 10:35 AM EST (#135744) #

I think Boston's interest in Lugo involves something other than a one-for-one swap with Marte, but with Marte involved.

Lugo's nothing to sneeze at. A heady high-OBP player with the best shortstop throwing arm in baseball is an asset, believe me.

Mike Green - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 10:35 AM EST (#135745) #

Mike D, Lowell's slugging percentages translated to a neutral park the last 4 years are .493, .549, .514, .377. It would be unfair for me to take odds. So, even up on the Lowell slugging percentage at .480. I propose that the stakes be a fine large (organically-grown, fairly traded of course) coffee at the best establishment in Toronto during your first visit after the 2007 season. I've already made arrangements with my banker for financing in case I lose.:)

Jonny German - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 10:54 AM EST (#135749) #

I'm curious, what is the best best establishment for coffee in Toronto?

Mike Green - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 10:55 AM EST (#135750) #

Eckstein is not a bad comp for Pedroia. Eckstein's first 2 seasons translated to a neutral park were: .287/.359/.364, and .293/.363/.407. I've basically projected that Pedroia will hit about as well as Eckstein, with an adjustment for Boston. Pedroia will, I think, be particularly able to take advantage of the wall, as Jody Reed did.

Mike Green - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 11:00 AM EST (#135751) #

Everyone has their favourite coffee place. Balzac's in the Distillery district and Alternative Grounds in Ronscevalles village are two of mine; if you're in Montreal, Brulerie St. Denis is a favourite.

Hodgie - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 11:33 AM EST (#135766) #

Eckstein may not be a bad comparison, but I am somewhat skeptical; if for no other reason that Eckstein was 26 in his rookie season, coming off a succesful college career at Florida. Pedroia, if I am not mistaken, would be 22 years old next season with 204 AB above the AA level. That is a lot to ask a young player at a premium position.

Mike Green - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 11:45 AM EST (#135773) #

Actually, the Eckstein/Pedroia comparison is better than I thought. Here's Eckstein's major and minor league record. I'd say there was a striking similarity up to and including Eckstein's struggles in Pawtucket the year prior to his arrival in the major leagues. It would be spooky if Eckstein had a wrist injury that year. For myself, I count Pedroia's youth as a plus rather than a minus. It means that he has a greater chance to take a leap forward.

Hodgie - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 01:41 PM EST (#135810) #

Mike, I completely agree that Pedroia's youth is a definate plus in the long run and that he projects to having considerably more upside than Eckstein. My assertion is based on expected performance for next season.

Eckstein was a considerably more mature player when entering the league; I just think that it is a lot to expect from a 22 year old rookie with relatively no AAA experience to step into a premium position like SS and perform at a high level in one of the most demanding environments in baseball. I think any expectaions of immediate success should be tempered, that's all. If I have time this afternoon I will try to do a comparison with some other age 22 year old shortstops from recent history.

Mike Green - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 02:33 PM EST (#135822) #

I guess Pedroia's long-term target would be Pee Wee Reese. Reese came up at 21 and hit, so it can be done. I'll grant you that there is often an adjustment period.

rtcaino - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 02:47 PM EST (#135824) #

""I'm curious, what is the best best establishment for coffee in Toronto?""

Tim Hortons man. Unless you enjoy all that twinkle toed coffee places. Personally, Starbucks creeps me out. Why can't I just order a small coffee? Tall, grande... they both imply large to me. Mild or bold? WTF IS THAT?! I want normal. I want a normal coffee. Tim Horton�s man, it's the way to go.

But I'm a suburb dweller. My g/f is more downtown oriented and takes me here and there to places that have the word Java in their names. I like Tim�s.

Jacko - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 03:12 PM EST (#135831) #

Grande Latte, extra shot of espresso (apparently this is called a Triple Grande Latte...)

Timmy's is fine when I'm in a rush, but I'll take something espresso based first if it's convenient.

For ambience, the independent places are better than Starbucks (thanks for the Toronto suggestions Mike Green!). They are also more likely to have free wireless internet access (Starbucks and Second Cup charge a mint for that).

Back to Pedroia...

Dustin seems to have a beefier build than Eckstein (same height, 15 pounds heavier) so maybe he'll hit for a little more power. Eckstein never slugged .500 anywhere in the minors. There's an age difference, but it's not quite ans pronounced as people think -- Eckstein was about 2.5 years older than Pedroia when he came through AA.

I'm beginning to realize that Adams, unless he adds some muscle, is basically a lefthanded version of Eckstein. While Hill is a slightly larger version of Pedroia (though most of the extra height comes from his gigantic noggin -- does anyone else think he's built just like Carlos Baerga? Hill's stocky build also reminds me of Jhonny Peralta (maybe Hill will start hitting like him next year?)

What are the reports on Pedroia's throwing arm? I suspect it's very limited, which is why he's been spending so much time at 2B.

Craig B - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 03:14 PM EST (#135835) #

Jonny, is it a relax coffee, a study coffee, a work-type meeting coffee, or best of all a date coffee?

Jonny German - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 03:32 PM EST (#135842) #

We're talking date coffee here. The only other kind of coffee I do is the 'daily morning routine' coffee, for which my home brew or Tim's or the sludge from work will do. Starbucks is my preference amongst the chains, i.e. I like bold roasts.

MatO - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 03:51 PM EST (#135847) #

I think you're underestimating Adams' power. Eckstein has 25 carrer HR in over 2800AB while Adams has 12 career HR in 550 AB. Adams has hit some real shots in those 12 including an opposite field HR which Eckstein is simply incapable of. Adams seemed to conciously cut down his swing once he moved into the lead-off spot in 2005. I think he's capable of being a consistent 15 HR guy in the future.

Mike Green - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 04:00 PM EST (#135848) #

I'm with MatO about Adams' power. His combination of offensive skills- medium range power, speed, plate discipline- and his defensive liabilities, absence of a throwing arm or clear skill at handling ground balls and footwork around the bag, is why I suggested that his natural position may very well be left-field.

Rob - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 04:01 PM EST (#135849) #

We're talking date coffee here.

This goes past coffee and into a full breakfast/lunch thing, but William's Coffee Pub is the Albert Pujols of coffee places, gentlemen. There must be one in Toronto; there are only about seventeen in Burlington.

(Coffee? Sure, it's baseball-related. Where was Alex Rios born? There you go...)

Jacko - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 04:12 PM EST (#135850) #

Hmm, I think WCP is a suburban thing? There's exactly one of them near downtown:

http://local.google.com/maps?q=williams+coffee+pub,+toronto,+on&hl=en

Rob - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 04:19 PM EST (#135854) #

I figured Toronto had to have one, but I wouldn't have guessed Queen Street, seeing as how my mental map of the city is bounded on the west/north/east by Spadina/Adelaide/Bay.

Jonny German - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 04:23 PM EST (#135856) #

Williams is a good spot, but it's notable not for coffee but rather for having real food at reasonable prices.

There's one by the airport, which is Toronto enough for me most days.

Glevin - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 08:39 PM EST (#135895) #

Did anyone else see Blair's column where he said "Renteria should hit 30 HRs". My jaw dropped. The guy will be 30-years old in May and has never had 30 HRs over two combined seasons. In fact, he's hit 31 over his last 1800 ABs or so. He wouldn't hit 30 in Coors. I just don't understand why Blair would write that.

Named For Hank - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 09:27 PM EST (#135897) #

Tim Hortons man. Unless you enjoy all that twinkle toed coffee places.

There are lots of good places for coffee in Toronto that aren't "twinkle toed". I like World Class Bakers on St. Clair near Bathurst -- they serve Seattle's Best coffee, which is very similar to Starbucks (and I think SB is owned by Starbucks now), and the pastries are really nice. They always have the Seattle's Best organic shade-grown stuff brewed, which is a really nice cup of coffee. Free wi-fi, too, though that doesn't help on a date.

Non-baked breakfast is disappointing there, though. Don't leave without trying a croissant, especially the cheese and sesame seed one.

Caino, try thinking of places that have a selection of coffees like this: you just went in to a store that has Tim Horton's, Coffee Time, Dunkin Donuts and Baker's Dozen stalls lined up beside each other. The coffees are all a little different and everybody likes a different one best. Me, I like strong, dark coffees. If you're stuck going into a Starbucks, order an Americano -- it's a shot of espresso watered down (and the name is kind of an insult). It's like a Horton's coffee with more kick to it.

And if you really want to have some fun, go into a Second Cup and order a Red Eye (or a Viennese at Starbucks, which is almost the same thing) -- large cup of dark roast with a double shot of espresso thrown into it. Tasty! Helped me when I was working extra-long hours. A warning, though: if you drink your coffee too slowly, a Red Eye will eat through the paper cup in about 45 minutes.

robertdudek - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 11:00 PM EST (#135906) #

I can't stand weak or sugar-filled coffee. To me, that stuff is just brown water.

At home I have one of those low-tech metallic espresso brewers - I drink about 3 cups a day on average.

Outside the home, I drink long espressos or macchiatos exclusively, usually at Second Cup.

Anders - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 11:23 PM EST (#135911) #

I figured Toronto had to have one, but I wouldn't have guessed Queen Street, seeing as how my mental map of the city is bounded on the west/north/east by Spadina/Adelaide/Bay.

This is unfortunate - as a Queen West dweller (when not at university) I can tell you that the stretch of Queen West from bathurst or so to Ossington-ish is the hippest place in Toronto. Fantastic restaurants, galleries, antiquing - general yupiness I supose. There is a fantastic cafe type place called Clafouti, which makes the best croissants this side of Paris. I couldnt say about the coffee, but it is just at the bottom of Trinity Bellwoods park, which is quite beautiful also.

Rob - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 11:35 PM EST (#135912) #

I just don't understand why Blair would write that.

Maybe he was preoccupied with finding a good place for "date coffee."

Four Seamer - Friday, December 09 2005 @ 11:55 PM EST (#135913) #

Free wi-fi, too, though that doesn't help on a date.

Speak for yourself, NFH! Most of my best dates have taken place on the computer!

Oh wait, did I say that out loud?

Jacko - Saturday, December 10 2005 @ 02:40 AM EST (#135923) #

There are lots of good places for coffee in Toronto that aren't "twinkle toed". I like World Class Bakers on St. Clair near Bathurst -- they serve Seattle's Best coffee, which is very similar to Starbucks (and I think SB is owned by Starbucks now), and the pastries are really nice. They always have the Seattle's Best organic shade-grown stuff brewed, which is a really nice cup of coffee. Free wi-fi, too, though that doesn't help on a date.

Thanks NFH, I'll check out World Class Bakers next time I'm in that hood.

The Roxton, near Ossington and Harbord also has free wi-fi. They serve up a decent hamburger, and always seem to have good music playing. They're reliably open after 5 PM, but unreliably open before that.

Not sure if the Linux Cafe down the street has wifi, but I would guess they do. They have bizarre hours as well (they close pretty early).

Anyone else know of good free wi-fi spots in the city? Any idea if the Rogers Centre has wi-fi plans? I imagine they would make people pay for it...

tik - Saturday, December 10 2005 @ 01:29 PM EST (#135955) #

i always read the site although this is my first time posting, my friend actually owns the linux cafe and it has an excellent wi-fi connection that extends into bickford park
the coffee is supplied by ideal coffee who are located in the market and may be the best roasters in the city
if your ever in the area look for the young tall blonde guy for some baseball talk

Craig B - Saturday, December 10 2005 @ 03:18 PM EST (#135971) #

If you're stuck going into a Starbucks, order an Americano -- it's a shot of espresso watered down (and the name is kind of an insult)

Not really. If I remember correctly, the "Americano" dates back to WW2, when American troops in Italy wanted American-style perked coffee but that stuff was basically unknown in Italy. The best facsimile was to brew an espresso and dilute it with hot water.

Filter-drip coffee wasn't well-known in North America before the war... most coffee was perked, which isn't as strong as the filter-drip method (less caffeine too).

Espresso's a decent drink for those who can't handle their caffeine, but those of us who are slaves to caffeine - we need our filter drip stuff.

Magpie - Saturday, December 10 2005 @ 03:38 PM EST (#135975) #

We're talking date coffee here.

Au contraire! Tim Horton's! (OK, we were working in the same place, we'd meet there before the shift started... not exactly a date, I suppose.)

Of course, we're both tea drinkers at home. So maybe you should just ignore me on this one...

Any idea if the Rogers Centre has wi-fi plans?

I'd be shocked if they didn't (the press box is already wi-fi, and there was a serious shortage of conventional land lines last year.) But anyway, Rogers is a communications company and wireless is their big chance to compete with Bell and beat 'em.

Craig B - Saturday, December 10 2005 @ 06:03 PM EST (#135993) #

Au contraire! Tim Horton's! (OK, we were working in the same place, we'd meet there before the shift started... not exactly a date, I suppose.)

I can see the feature film adaptation now... Love, Canadian Style. Co-workers, Tim Horton's, boots and parkas...

Magpie - Saturday, December 10 2005 @ 08:29 PM EST (#136011) #

I think Jack Nicholson should play me...

Mike Green - Monday, December 12 2005 @ 11:52 AM EST (#136146) #

Ken Huckaby signs with the Sox, and may be Wakefield's new catcher. Proving that not all is rosy in the decision-making process in Boston. In other Sox news, Theo Epstein may be returning to the Sox either as GM or as a part-time consultant.

Mike Green - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 12:26 PM EST (#140423) #

Well, the Sox seem finally to be just about done, with the signing of Alex Gonzalez the younger to a 1-year deal. They're left with an outfield of Ramirez, Crisp and Nixon, an infield of Lowell, Gonzalez, Loretta and Youkilis, with Varitek and Bard catching. And, of course, Big Papi. Another outfielder would be nice, but their pitching is in pretty good shape. Pedroia and Lester will probably spend half a season in Pawtucket. The Sox look to me to be modestly better than last year from all perspectives, offence, pitching and defence. Here's what our friends at SoSH had to say about the Gonzalez signing.

Mike D - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 12:48 PM EST (#140424) #

No way, Mike G. A thousand times no. The Red Sox are *not* a better offensive club going into 2006 than they were in 2005. I think you're underestimating Damon and Mueller and overestimating Lowell and Gonzalez.

Our Lowell bet is a coffee on the over/under of a .480 slugging percentage. I have a new, additional wager for you.

Two tickets to a 2007 Sox-Jays game are on the line. If the 2006 Red Sox meet beat three or four of the following numbers, you win. Zero or one, I win. Two, it's a push.

2005 Red Sox:

AVG .281
OBP .357
SLG .454
OPS+ 114

Do we have a wager?

Mike Green - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 01:52 PM EST (#140429) #

Sure. To clarify, I think that Alex Gonzalez will hit at about the same rate that Renteria hit last year; Crisp will hit at about the same rate as Damon hit and Lowell will hit at about the same rate as Mueller hit. The big improvements offensively will come from Loretta and Youkilis over Bellhorn and Millar. Renteria, Damon and Mueller have been fine, fine hitters over their career, but weren't in top form in 2005.

So, I guess we'll have to add a piece of Dufflet's chocolate mousse cake to the primo coffee as our betting stake? Life is so punishing. :)

Mike Green - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 01:53 PM EST (#140430) #

Oh, it's tickets, not cake. That'll do.

Leigh - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 02:00 PM EST (#140431) #

Here is PECOTA's opinion, squarely in Mike D.'s camp.

2006 Pecota EqA    2005 Actual EqA     Change
Youkilis    .274   Millar      .275    - .001
Loretta     .266   Bellhorn    .256    + .010
Lowell      .267   Mueller     .288    - .021
Gonzalez    .246   Renteria    .262    - .016
Crisp       .276   Damon       .293    - .017
Total                                  - .045

And while I am at it...

2006 Pecota EqA    2005 Actual EqA     Change
Overbay     .279   Hinkse      .271    + .008
Hill        .250   Hudson      .261    - .011
Glaus       .299   Koskie      .266    + .033
Total                                  + .030

That Hill projection is insane, right? His 2005 EqA was .264...

Mike Green - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 02:09 PM EST (#140432) #

The 2005 figures for the Sox do not appear to be correct. Here is the team DT listing. Millar's EqA was .262; Mueller's was .275. Bellhorn's was .244. Damon's was .280. Renteria's was .250. It looks like PECOTA agrees with me, narrowly, but that and $15 will buy you a nice coffee and a slice of Dufflet's cake.

Mike D - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 02:16 PM EST (#140434) #

Leigh, I agree that the .250 prediction for Hill is insane. PECOTA also tabs Russ Adams for a decline all the way to .250.

Mike Green put forth the most plausible guess I've yet heard as to why PECOTA thinks Adams and Hill will both collapse so severely: Perhaps PECOTA thinks their minor league numbers suggest that their major league performance last year was a fluke.

Personally, though, I can't see Aaron Hill dropping below .260 or so with his EqA, and he could easily improve. And on this, Mike Green and I agree.

Leigh - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 02:26 PM EST (#140435) #

Green, I took the numbers from the same DT page that you linked. On the DT player cards there are two numbers: EqA adjusted for season and EqA adjusted for all-time. I had assumed that the DT team page used the same scale as the PECOTA spreadsheet, but upon closer inspection the DT page has two EqA columns and I was looking at the wrong one. My bad.

Leigh - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 02:28 PM EST (#140437) #

Oh, and that also means that I undercut the Jays improvement in the above table.

Mike Green - Tuesday, January 31 2006 @ 02:37 PM EST (#140439) #

Leigh, there should be little doubt that the Jays' offence has improved significantly. How many extra runs that will amount to is another question because the 2005 offence was very efficient in terms of translating OBP and slugging percentage into runs.

Mike Green - Thursday, March 08 2018 @ 03:03 PM EST (#354482) #

I see that I owe Mike D a cup of coffee and a pair of tickets from 12 years ago. Lowell was a decent replacement for Mueller, but didn't slug .480 in 2006 (.475- missed by that much- and .502 in 2007), and the 2006 Sox were no match for the 2005 Sox offensively. I hate when the bots dredge up an old thread with a losing bet of mine that I had long since forgotten!

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