I just think I'm missing someting with Overbay, I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't understand why he's worth 3 decent prospects. Could someone explain it to me. It only took Peterson to get Shea, even tho Arizona seemed to be in a hurry to get rid of him.

That is far too clever for 2am.

Suddenly...I like this trade.

I agree. I think Hillenbrand's right handedness will be his saving grace on a team that tilts to the left. I believe that Overbay will ultimately serve as an upgrade over one of fellow lefties Hinske and Koskie, likely the former.

Yeah, I agree with you Chuck. It's very hard to argue with robertdudek's analysis of this deal-I think he's bang on with everything he said. I'm actually not disappointed that the Jays kept Towers over either of these guys-he's put together a couple of solid seasons now-but I would have rather kept Bush instead of Chacin. They've got a stat that they call xFIP which they figure is a better predictor of future ERA and it has the two guys pretty even with a slight edge to Chacin. I think that part of the reason I like Bush is because I got to see him pitch in the minors but I just don't have high hopes for Chacin being any better moving forward.

Not mentioned at the site, and from my head entirely, how about pursuing Todd Pratt? He's hit lefties well and would serve as a nice platoon mate for Zaun. It's not like more time in AAA would hurt Quiroz.

Hey, easy there, useless Tyler. I'm saying get rid of the guy who has the shiny stats that I don't think he'll continue to put up. Of course the organization didn't appear to hate him, which might alter things.

Now, has anyone read Griffin today? He's in fine form:

Fact: In the last five years of Ash's regime as GM in Toronto, 1997-2001, his total payroll was $265.7 million. His overall record was 411-399, with a season high of 88 wins in 1998 and three winning seasons.

Fact: In the first four years of Ricciardi's regime as GM in Toronto, 2002-05, his total payroll has been $223.9 million. His overall four-year record is 311-336, with a one-season high of 86 wins in 2003, his only winning season.

Apparently old Dick doesn't realize that salary inflation eats away at the bang for the buck-MLB salaries have more than doubled in that period. Gord spent 102% of the MLB average during that time period-JP has spent 80% of the MLB average so far. If I was feeling more uncharitable, I'd point out that a good deal of that was pissed away on various Ash white elephants (and buffalo). Not that even this gives the whole picture; I suspect that there are other factors more important (median salary, where you stand in relation to the teams in your division/league etc.) but what Griffin has written is utterly dishonest and entirely misleading. Remember this when you're reading the Star's coverage of the Liberal/Tory campaigns-the writers down there have no compunction about slanting facts or applying dishonest spin to further their agenda.

I've come around to sharing Griffin's viewpoint in part in JP. The Jays must just laugh when he writes this crap though-any half sentinent human being is going to wonder about exactly what I just pointed out and conclude that Griffin has an agenda. Unbelievable.

The Marlins WERE dumping salary and the Jays CAN afford the insane amount remaining on his contract. The Marlins tossed in $7MM for the Mets-that deal is worth $41MM over three now. The Jays could have done that I think. It was never going to happen, which is unfortunate, but it wasn't undoable.

A wash? If Lilly is better than Bush (and I believe he is) and Overbay is also better than Hinske (and again I certainly believe he is) then it seems like alot more than a wash.

I'd say he's a C prospect. Taubenheim is an absolutely massive RHP (he measures 6-7, 240) and a good athlete who was a low-round pick but is moving up pretty well. He was just OK at double-A this past season but was terrific in the FSL before that, and in '04 and '03.

I doubt it... so there.

Christian, I'd rather have Sexson than that list of players.

You're kidding, right? A high OBP guy like Overbay is a perfect #2 or #3 hitter. Wells doesn't walk, but he hits lots of bombs. Ideally, you'd like to have some guys on base when he hits them...

Sounds like it.

No idea how hard he throws, but he sounds similar to Vince Perkins. Big guy who throws hard, but probably not that athletic (i.e. trouble with consistency and control). I'm guessing he's currently a PTBNL because he _might_ get picked in the Rule 5 draft today.

I would think that Kinsler is the reason why the Rangers wouldn't have much interest in obtaining Hudson. Haven't the Rangers been trying to make room for Kinsler for over a year? Wasn't this the reason for the original 'Soriano to the outfield' rumours?

It's too bad the Jays couldn't strike a direct deal with Washington for Wilkerson. Washington seems to be a team that desperately need pitching moreso than an overpaid 2B who'll have to be moved to the outfield against his wishes.

Added bonus: Wilson has the best mullet in MLB. He would fit in perfectly in in a hockey town like Toronto.

instead of the Red Sox, who were allegedly offering Matt Clement

Wow, Boston soured on him in a hurry. Maybe it would have been for the best had the Jays lost out on the bidding for both Clement and Koskie last year. I do like the fact that the Jays secured, with three cheap young players, the services of a player for which the BoSox were willing to trade a pitcher whose services they beat out the Blue Jays to acquire. Okay, that was a really convoluted sentence, but you get the idea.

It seems to me that the Jays' infield glut breaks down as follows:

Corner Infielders: Koskie, Hinske, Hillenbrand, Overbay
Middle Infielders: Hill, Adams, Hudson (acknowledging that Hill can play 3B)

If the Jays were to deal only Hinske, perhaps in a partial salary dump, I think they'd be wise to keep the other three. Koskie can't be counted on for more than 100 games a season, so keeping Hillenbrand around as a utility CI guy who can pick 300-400 AB at 3B, 1B or DH might be a very good idea. But if Nomar Garciaparra ended up in a Toronto uniform (which I would welcome), Hillenbrand would be redundant.

In terms of the middle infielders, I really think Hudson will be the odd man out -- if the Jays intend to add Wilkerson, Russ Adams isn't going to get it done. It's also a fact, much as I love the O-Dawg, that both Hill and Adams are superior offensive players.

Gonna be one heckuva day.

We'll see. It's just as likely that by 2009 we'll have found out that Gross is a career 4th OF, Jackson never made it past AAA and Bush ended up no better than an average #3. I dont consider that scenario unlikely at all. In any event I wouldn't want to make a comment to the effect of "absolutely no doubt" one way or the other.

Either way the Jays have something of a logjam of average to good (not great) prospects and youngish players. Trading a couple for a signficant upgrade on what you had last year (Hinske) who is just entering what should be his prime (28) and his first year of arbitration is not a terribly bad deal.

He's arbitration eligible. I have no idea what that moves him up to, but it's not going to be 400K.

Or maybe Gross turns into...Lyle Overbay? It's not much of a stretch to imagine Gross turning in some .380/.450 years in his late 20's or early 30's. Unfortunately, the Jays do not have the luxury of waiting to see how he'll turn out. They're in the part of the cycle where they want to win now, so it makes sense to trade for a more established player like Overbay.

I'm also kind of surprised how fast Zack Jackson's stock has fallen. He was a first round pick in 2004, and had a pretty good season last year, at least until he hit AAA. New Hampshire is a pitchers park, so it might have been a bit of a stretch promoting him after he posted a 4.00 ERA there.

Bush is an enigma. I have no idea what he did or said to get himself put on a short leash, but he was never given a chance to get himself out of jams like the other pitchers on the Jays staff.

It's been a little painful watching Doug Davis blossom in Milwaukee after being run out of Toronto. I imagine watching the other Jays alums is going to hurt as well. However, a world series appearance by the Jays will help dull the pain...

Let me second Jordan's hola to Coach. Always nice to hear Kent's calm, collected voice of reason.

And nice to see Robert back on-line.

Overbay becomes the team's best hitter. I think that's clear. I don't think it's a good situation that he is your best hitter, but better that than a sub-800 OPSer like Hillenbrand being your best hitter, which was the case last year.

Ricciardi is a man on a mission, so I wouldn't presume anything, but I am guessing that a new DH will not be brought in and trump Overbay as the team's best hitter. I'd love to see Frank Thomas, as would others given yesterday's thread, but Rosenthal and Blair have made no mention of this, and given that they seem better connected to trade talks than any writers I have ever seen in the past, I'm not holding out hope.

So Overbay will be the team's best hitter in a lineup that will see no .500 sluggers. But, as someone pointed out, there is a terrific chance that every player in the starting lineup will be no worse than league average offensively at his position (presuming a new RF replaces Rios). This gives the Jays the tools for a long-sequence offense. This is not the worst situation in the world.

Is there a glut at 1B? I don't see it. I think the team has exactly one first baseman. The glut is at 3B/DH with 3 bodies -- Hillenbrand, Koskie and Hinske -- for 2 spots. Like most, my preference would be to see Hinske jettisoned, freeing up 3B/DH for Hillenbrand/Koskie with Hill caddying for Koskie and backing up at SS. There is room for everybody once Hinske goes.

Will Hudson get moved? I'm with those who hope not. I am fearful that the loss of his defense will not be offset by the gains in offense a new outfielder would offer. If Rios and Batista can fetch a decent hitting RF, I'm all for it. I'm much less enthused about Hudson and Batista being the trade bait.

Based on what I've read, and I'd defer to someone like Tango or Robert, average players-and Overbay is an averagish 1B, albeit with plus defence, tend to be paid above their worth in arbitration.

Hudson MLB: .270/.328/.418
Adams MLB: .262/.329/.401

Their totals to date are pretty indistinguishable. The difference is that Adams is three years younger and, up until hitting a wall late in the season, was comfortably in the .280/.350 range. Orlando has pretty much established his production level and will be 28 next year; Adams still has room to grow, especially (I suspect) if he’s moved to a less demanding defensive position like 2B. Plus, Adams is pretty much the team’s best option at leadoff.

Certainly anything is possible, but non-pitchers don't typically enter into their primes at 28 or 29. They are at their prime. Generally speaking, and yes there are exceptions galore, it's downhill after 28.

I cant remember who, but I think multiple people did pieces on how Tony Womack had one of the 5 worst seasons by an outfielder of all time last year. An OPS+ of 47, 9 xbh's (and no hr's) in 300+ ab's - if the Yankee's get back more than 2 baseballs, they win this trade by a long shot.

That would be extremely interesting. I was thinking last night that if the Dodgers were interested in Koskie, they might unload Bradley in exchange, but I can also see their interest in a low-cost innings-eater like Batista (and who'd have thought, two years ago, we'd be describing El Artista that way?).

The only real question about Milton is whether he's able to control his anger. He did a pretty decent job of it last year in LA until life with Jeff Kent finally became too much for him. He might find Toronto a little more to his liking, culture-wise, and Wells would seem to be a great role model. His bat, certainly, would be a perfect fit in right field. We shall see.

I agree. The Jay's should make this trade.

Of course, there's no way in Hades that the Reds do that, though.

I'll give you four in one sentence : Wilkerson is a good and versatile fielder with fine power who gets on base very consistently.

The player he was traded for is far, far more overrated, and pops up in far more trade rumours.

Oh.

As one of Dave Bush's biggest fans (since when is a man whose FB hits 92 mph a soft-tossing righty, anyway?), who believes very much in his upside, I am naturally sad to see him go. But for the most part, it doesn't matter. You trade from strength, and depth in the rotation is this team's strength. Jackson is a nice prospect, but he's still just a prospect. Gross may be a useful major leaguer... but the focus should always be on what you get,not what you give. (Don't apply this rule to life, by the way!)

While Overbay is one of my favourites anyway, and he is an upgrade on either Hillenbrand or Hinske, I'd like this a whoile lot more if he could play RF. He would be a big upgrade there - at 1B/DH,not so much.

I would assume that if another shoe drops, Hinske (because he's a LH hitter) is most likely to move on, and very possibly something is in the works. In which case, for those of you who never want to see him DH here again, here are the 2005 numbers for Toronto designated hitters:

NAME	         G  AB  R  H 2B 3B HR TB RBI BB SO SB CS BAVG  OBP  SLG  OPS
Eric Hinske	42 104 18 32  9  1  1 46   4 12 23  0  2 .308 .400 .442 .842
S. Hillenbrand	33 128 21 41  9  0  2 56  12  6 15  2  1 .320 .383 .438 .820
Aaron Hill	34 117 16 30  9  2  2 49  12  8 18  0  0 .256 .315 .419 .734
Corey Koskie	19  69  3 11  6  0  1 20   9  6 24  0  0 .159 .221 .290 .511

The thing is, though, that rotoworld doesn't always cite a source. For example, this is copied verbatim from their page:

Blue Jays acquired outfielder Dustin Majewski from the Athletics to complete the Chad Gaudin trade. Majewski, who was available in the Rule 5 draft, hit .272/.348/.477 with 13 SB for Single-A Stockton last season. There's a chance that he could have a career as a reserve, but he'll need to step it up in Double-A next season. Dec. 8 - 3:06 pm et

So, I don't know. Maybe rotoworld is a source?

Anyays, I like Milton Bradley. It seems to me like his "character" issues are overblown, and he's not a bad guy unless someone pisses him off. I would think it's unlikely though, as JP might not want to have a guy of his reputation, anyways.

That is about as textbook an example of damning someone with faint praise as you are ever going to see!

Anyways, if he's too much of a headcase to mellow his act in chilled-out SoCal, I can't imagine the surroundings here will change him much. He might be worth all the baggage, if the market for Batista doesn't materialize to the point where you get a dependable outfield upgrade back in exchange, but I'm not particularly inclined to take the risk. It's an interesting thought, though, and not one to be dismissed out of hand.

I think this is the point Andrew. Will one bad apple spoil the whole bunch? More importantly, what could we realistically expect to get for Miguel Batista? You move him out, save some salary, get a more talented player back who might be moveable to someone else or might be a significant upgrade in RF.

Don't get me wrong, Bradley does sound like a nightmare and that's really a shame given his talent. I'm sure JP is thinking long and hard about this one but it could be that he's either decided to brave the risk (contending that a team full of good people around him might change things) or has another trigger he could pull to send Bradley someplace else where a CF is needed.

Texas springs to mind. What if you can send Bradley with a pitcher there to get back Wilkerson and Gonzalez? Wilkerson goes to right, Gonzalez and Rios to the minors providing capable insurance, while Overbay and Hillenbrand man 1B and DH for the time being.

If you can combine that with getting Garciaparra's bat to shuffle around between 3B, SS, 2B, DH, etc, I think you're in some serious business should Burnett pan out.

Ah, but how mellow is it? Really? Isn't this where "road rage" was practically invented? Hours upon hours on the freeway, stuck in traffic, as time wastes away...

Gee, I wonder what team he's talking about?

Tejeda made 11 million last year, so I can only guess that he's owed about 12-13 million this year. We still have a little left and if you can shed Shea's and Batista's contract, there might be enough to cover that contract. While I think they'd be ridiculous to give him to an AL East rival, surely they can be seduced with some young pitching which they do crave.

Ricciardi had only a few discussions yesterday. What he did not do, contrary to a report on ESPN, was put a deal on the table that would see Miguel Batista traded for Milton Bradley.

"We talked, but we're not going to do that," Ricciardi said.

I'd rather not see Bradley here. When JP arrived he took great pains to shake up the clubhouse and eliminate any malcontents or underachievers. He's done a terrific job at reshaping the team's character and building what he called in Verducci's SI feature last year a team of guys who would play hard in an empty ballpark. If you had to make a list of the 10 biggest clubhouse pains in the game, Bradley would have to be on there somewhere.

Hey, there's an idea for a dull winter's thread: biggest clubhouse cancers. I'll start:

1. Jeff Kent
2. Barry Bonds
3. Milton Bradley
4. Manny Ramirez
5. Jose Guillen
6. Raphael Palmeiro
7. Aubrey Huff
8. Carl Everett
9. AJ Pierzinski
10. Raul Mondesi

Actually I don't mind Rotoworld. My understanding is that Aaron Gleeman is making a lot of the editorial comments found below the original story, and in my humble opinion , the boy can write.

Yes.

I'm not saying that would be a good baseball trade - it wouldn't. I'm a huge fan of Tejada's.

I don't post here too frequently, but I'm here almost everyday and I must say that I really appreciate seeing Coach and Mr. Dudek posting again

I found a list of rumours and leads regarding potential signings and trades here. There is no real author or source listed so take this with a salt shaker. Some interesting confirmations on the Jays interest in Nomar, Thomas and Reggie Sanders as well as the idea that Dunn is still being shopped (possibly for the O's Bedard). Surely the Jays could top this proposal (unfounded as it may be....).

I've been strolling through lists of outfielders with the idea of finding some overlooked players who would help the Jays, but the options seem limited. Chad Tracy has been mentioned and I wonder if the Backs would deal him if they could get Luis Gonzalez's (11.5 Mil in 2006) contract off the books. Say Tracy (who can play rightfield) and Luis for Rios, Pitcher(s) (Lilly? Batista? League? Downs?) and prospects? Even considering that the Backs seem to want shed contracts, is it fair?

While a lot here are giddy at the notion that Hinske may be traded to the O's, I wonder if the Jays would be better off keeping him and trading Shea instead. It was argued in another thread that the difference between Hillenbrand and Hinske is not as large as it may seem. Taking into account that Shea may have pretty good trade value, especially in contrast with Hinske, it may be smarter to instead hang on to Hinske. This is only workable if Shea can be packaged in a trade that nets another bat. The rumour has bee floating that the Ranger's Blalock may be headed to the Twins, potentially opening up a situation where Shea + others could head to Texas for Wilkerson.

a nice moment from before yesterday's game. A choir came out and sung the two anthems. The players stood on the dugout, shuffled their feet, and put their caps on when it was over. Everyone except Lyle Overbay, who gave them a nice and respectful little bit of applause first. I thought that was sweet, and will cheer for him from this day forward.

And now I get to cheer for him every day!

Robert, I'd like you to meet metaphor. Metaphor, this is Robert. I'm sure you two will hit it off splendidly.

It has new stories, like Indians Meet With Trevor Hoffman, Forget to Offer Contract, and classics like Pro Athlete Lauded for Being Decent Human Being. The latter, from 2001, includes these beauties: "Ray Allen, Milwaukee Buck guard and budding NBA superstar, is drawing raves on and off the court, hailed by admirers as 'not an asshole' and 'a reasonably decent human being'"; and "[s]uch decency has not gone unnoticed: Never accused of sexual assault, Allen has earned high praise for his lack of hostility toward women... Bucks public relations director Cheri Hanson said[,] "Ray Allen isn't merely in the top one percent of NBA players; he's in the 51st percentile of human beings."

Again, my deepest apologies to anybody attempting to fulfill her or his employment obligations this afternoon.

Well said. Of course, dangerous is fun too... until he smashes my birthday cake. Keep MB out of T.O.!

Jeff Kent as number one? I think you have to go with Mr. Bonds with this one.

Nobody ever really said anything bad about Barry Bonds as teammate until he hit 73 home runs and the media needed a reason to start dumping on him. At first, the best they could come up with was that he had a nice recliner in the clubhouse.

To all those who have said that Hudson's value is enhanced by the pitching staff the Jays have - keep preaching it, gentlemen. I couldn't agree more.

Wilkerson is brutal. He's not even worth Batista.

Since the anti-Wilkersons have failed to come up with a single piece of evidence to support this, while the pro-Wilkersons have compiled page after page of evidence as to him being a good player, I'd say the onus is on one of you to give us a "why?" here.

the 2004 Jays would have been way more fun if occasionally someone overturned a bucket of balls onto the field

The 2004 Jays might also have been *better* if someone had done this occasionally. Carlos Tosca could vent his rage as well as any manager I've ever seen, but he was way, way too professional to act crazy. Ditto Gregg Zaun, who's pleasantly batty but not crazy enough to motivate. One of the best things about last year was the intensity was back. I'm not saying "go get MB for his intensity" but intense is good. Look at the Yankees... a $200 million team that sleepwalked through last season.

It seems to me that the prospects that JP trades are the ones that they push very aggressively.

This is really, really interesting, and I hadn't thought of this before. I'm not sure there's anything to it, though, because JP likes to push ALL his talented players aggressively.

I noticed that before as well, but didn't put much thought into it because, as Craig said, a lot of prospects are pushed in the Blue Jays organization. Peterson, Bush, Hill, Jackson, Thigpen, Janssen -- it just so happens that three of those have been traded.

The things is, though, Gabe Gross was traded too, and not only was he not pushed, some people make the argument that he should have been given an outfield job this year -- or even 2004.

And here's a blast from the past: Tom Mastny (who was not rushed at all; he was actually left in Charleston too long) had himself a very, very nice year with Cleveland's A and AA teams after being the PTBNL in the John McDonald trade (the first one). He will be 25 in 2006, though, so he really needs to get to AAA in order to be considered a prospect.

Even so...his lowest WHIP in his pro career? 1.18. Just 9 HR in 321 innings and he strikes out a batter per inning, 3.8 K/BB. I'll be interested to see what happens to Nasty Mastny next year.

What does his batting average have to do with the price of tea in China? What matters is putting runs up on the board, and Wilkerson does that both ways - putting ducks on the pond and driving them in. He's been thirty runs above the average player these last two years, while the guy he'd be replacing - Rios - has been twenty runs under, despite a higher batting average. That's two or three wins per year, and last year was an unexpectedly down year for Wilkerson.

Wilkerson is also a good defender, a versatile guy who can give you real good performance in left, right, or center and at first. This isn't "he could play there" stuff - it's real, proven versatility, he's done it and done it well. I didn't think he could handle center but he proved me very wrong.

I noticed at pro sports daily rumors that the Pirates are looking for a third baseman.

What about Hinske + Prospect for Craig Wilson? Or maybe even Hillenbrand? I understand Craig Wilson isn't in the Pirates' plans, and Hinske definitely isn't in the Jays' plans.

Wilson has good OBP, and decent SLG power. Career his OPS is .363 + .488 = .851. Certainly an upgrade over many current Jays. I have no idea what his fielding ability is like though.

I think it could work because the Jays would eat some salary, but still clear room on the payroll. Thoughts?

Pulling something like this off would also allow us to keep some cash in reserve for trading later in the season. (Or perhaps to trade with Texas for Gerald Laird -- Zaun is going to need a backup, 'cause we just can't be sure about Quiroz.)

Then you have an actual leadoff hitter, instead of just a potential one in Rios.

You've done a much better job at outlining the anti-Wilkerson case, which I acknowledge is totally legit and sensible. Few players are perfect, and Wilkerson's flaws are more obvious than most good players (his skills are also less obvious).

Much of that case boils down to Wilkerson having a bad year last year. If he hadn't, there is absolutely no way he'd be available in the first place - the year before he'd hit 32 home runs and nobody could touch him with a ten-foot pole. "What have you done for me lately?" has a powerful psychological hold on fans, press and baseball people, but it shouldn't make us lose sight of the fact that Wilkerson's skills do not appear to be significantly eroded, he is still in his prime, and his relatively poor performance last year will make him cheaper in arbitration.

Wilkerson is risky, because he may not return to the level he played at previously. Because of the Jays' position in the AL, it is imperative that they take significant risks in order to be competitive. The Jays cannot wait for the "sure thing" to drop into their lap, not merely because we've all waited long enough, but because they need to get more bang for their buck than the typical team. Taking risks needs to be an essential part of their strategy. Signing players like Wilkerson who have just had an off year is a sensible way to add risk to the team.

In business, in life, in baseball, too often we equate the notion of "risk management" with "risk minimization". This is not the proper way to see risk. Properly considered, risk in and of itself is value-neutral, and merely adds variability. The Jays need to make variability their friend if they want to win a World Series - almost anybody does. If you want an example of that, call up Kenny Williams and ask him why he signed Orlando Hernandez and Jose Contreras or ask the Pistons why they "rolled the dice" with Antonio McDyess.

Properly managed, risk wins championships.

On Wilkerson:

Too many strikeouts - Hard to argue

lack of power - not so much. True, he only hit 11 homers last year, but he added 42 doubles and 7 triples and has career averages of 36 doubles and 21 homers. By way of comparison, Vernon's averages in his 4 full seasons are 36 doubles and 27 home runs. Wilkerson's career averages are certainly more that the Jays should expect from the current crop of corner outfielders.

gets injured - Care to back this up? His career LOWS in 4 full seasons are 146 Games Played and 504 AB. You must be thinking of somebody else.

I acknowlege there may be some valid reasons to not want him, but of the three you mentioned I'd say about 1.2 of them are grounded in reality.

After lunch, Star columnist Richard Griffin and I head back to the media room to peruse the Internet. We scour a couple of baseball forums, checking to see how many people are insulting him on this particular day. I offer a couple of suggestions on how to best antagonize the repeat offenders in his next column. He duly notes them.

Having a little too much fun, eh Richard?

After lunch, Star columnist Richard Griffin and I head back to the media room to peruse the Internet. We scour a couple of baseball forums, checking to see how many people are insulting him on this particular day. I offer a couple of suggestions on how to best antagonize the repeat offenders in his next column. He duly notes them.

Back a few years the Jays were very interested in Paul Maholm prior to the draft. Maholm ended up going to the Pirates #8 overall prior to the Jays selecting Aaron Hill (and I suspect would have taken Hill over Maholm if both were available).

I believe Maholm was the player the Jays, including JP, were looking at when they had their infamous tornado dodging trip.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/paul-maholm.shtml

Not hard to argue at all. While strikeouts can be a disturbing trend for an up-and-comer, for the established player, they are fine.

Considering the possibilities for out-making, strikeouts aren't that bad; they have a value of exactly one (1) out. An out on a batted ball in play - because the likelihood*impact of a double play is greater than the likelihood*impact of moving a runner over - is worse than the one insular out created by a strikeout.

Players like Wilkerson - extreme flyball hitters with good speed and high strikeout rates - are the ones who produce the least harmful outs. In fact, Wilkerson grounded into only six double plays in 2005, a total bested by only four other NL hitters (min. 450 PA) - and that tied his career high in GDP. In 2,690 career plate appearances, Wilkerson has grounded into only 24 double plays, or three more than Shea Hillenbrand grounded into last season alone.

No problem, Rich. You were right about the injuries and power parts, so I figured I'd give you a hand so that you could go three for three.

I think the feeling is that Texas would demand Hudson, to replace Soriano, were they to give up Wilkerson. I'm sure JP would happily give up Rios and Batista instead of Hudson and Batista, selling Texas on Rios's ability to play CF.

They couldn't have come to this forum as Griffin is soundly ignored around these parts.

Exactly. The very fact that we've survived a week of O-Dog rumours has got to be a good sign. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

And as for anyone saying that they won't watch games if O-Dog gets traded, that's just ridiculous. Maybe it was an overreaction, but let's all get a grip here. Nothing's happened yet.

By IBR, which you can read all about in The Hardball Times Baseball Annual, 2006 Edition (we also have IBR charts for every team) Wilkerson was +0.30 runs on the bases last season, third on the Expos who were a terrible running team (too aggressive). So his baserunning was fine, but I don't know about 2003-04.