Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - This Day in Baseball, Playoff Edition: October 17

This Day in Baseball, Playoff Edition: October 17

For just the second time since the Black Sox scandal, the Chicago White Sox are going to the World Series.

This will call for all sorts of fun stuff - we'll have to look back at the last AL champs to come out of Chicago, Bill Veeck's Go-Go Sox of 1959... we'll have to preview the Fall Classic itself, once we know who the opposition will be...

But in the meantime... well done, Ozzie. Well done, Kenny Williams. Well done, Joe Crede and Paul Konerko. And the starting rotation, who put up four consecutive complete game victories in a post-season series, which hasn't happened in at least forty years.

Bring on... whoever. Chris Carpenter will try to keep the Cardinals alive for another day, as he goes up against Andy Pettite and the Astros at 8:28 this evening.

And how about that Phil Cuzzi, tossing Jim Edmonds for arguing strike two? Cuzzi, by the way, has a history with the Cardinals and Tony LaRussa (and Dave Duncan.) Ejections and suspensions, back in 2003...

Posted by Magpie on Sunday, October 16 2005 @ 11:45 PM EDT.

This Day in Baseball, Playoff Edition: October 17 | 36 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

DepecheJay - Sunday, October 16 2005 @ 11:52 PM EDT (#130201) #

I find it hilarious that for all the crap Kenny Williams gets, NO ONE is giving him credit for the tremendous job he's done this season. I'm not saying that Williams is a better GM then J.P., but hey, his club put forth the results.

I've been thinking, should the Jays have bunted more this season in early innings? Their rotation was very good this season and maybe they should have tried to squeeze out some more runs and avoid getting shutout? Just a thought.

DepecheJay - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 12:04 AM EDT (#130202) #

And Magpie, seeing you congratulate Kenny Williams is what made me think about how Williams is getting very little credit. So good job on your part for giving credit where it's due.

VBF - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 01:17 AM EDT (#130203) #

I too will tip my hat to their whole management. I'll never know how a team that breaks team records for home runs one year, does everything in the interest to not try to be a home run club the next, and improve using a style of play they've hardly perfected could manage to make it to the World Series. I can say that the fans certainly deserve it. The South Side loves their baseball.

I think these playoffs have made Major League Baseball reflect on their umpires. I felt that the umps were better this year but hopefully we will see improvements in years to come and umpiring controversy of the magnitude we saw won't be an issue in the future.

Twilight - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 01:27 AM EDT (#130204) #

The Sox played very well. I'm happy to see them make the WS for the first time in such a long time. They've got a good team. Hopefully Konerko is able to stay in a Sox uniform rather than end up as a Yankee or something. :o (Cause we sure know he won't be a Jay lol)

Craig B - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 08:38 AM EDT (#130206) #

Brilliantly done by the White Sox this season. I still can't stand them, but I feel pretty happy for their fans.

GrrBear - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 08:49 AM EDT (#130208) #

I agree - if Houston does manage to defeat St. Louis, you've got two cities' worth of fans who have a chance to be very happy for the first time in a loooooong time.

Phil Cuzzi continues to be an embarrassment. I can't believe he was even put on the postseason umpiring roster. Does he have incriminating photos of somebody important? I wonder if Halladay was ROFL last night or shaking his head sadly. Either way, it sure seems like the umpiring has been the story in these LCS's.

Craig B - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#130209) #

By the way, the double play by Bruntlett and Everett to close out the NLCS game was absolutely brilliant. For all that Rafael Furcal's defensive numbers are great, I see him a fair bit on TV and he is just not quite in Everett's class (or Neifi, for that matter).

I wish we could get a spectacular defensive shortstop back in Toronto. Tony Fernandez was fun.

Named For Hank - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 10:04 AM EDT (#130210) #

With the Angels out, I now have to root for the Astros -- it wouldn't be fair for only one Molina to go to the World Series this year.

greenfrog - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#130211) #

Yes, that was a brilliant double play to end game four of the NLCS.

It was also interesting to watch Escobar in the ALCS. Amazing stuff, can be absolutely dominant, but he has occasional lapses--as we all know in Toronto. I missed the Crede home run, so I can't comment on his pitch selection in that at-bat (Kelvim was terrific for the next several batters), but his defensive miscue in the eighth really cost the Angels. He actually brought his hands together after fielding the ball and could have transferred it to his glove fairly easily before tagging the runner. I also thought he pitched Rowland, the previous batter, too fine, which resulted in a critical two-out walk. Rowland had only hit 13 home runs in 578 AB in the regular season--better to go right after him rather than nibble low and away with a breaking pitch.

Mick Doherty - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#130213) #

which hasn't happened in at least forty years.

More like EIGHTY. The last to do it, according to Fox, anyway, was the Waite Hoyt/George Pipgras Yankees in the 1920s.

A five game series in which the starters got all but two outs ... that's even more amazing than the four straight complete games.

When does someone tag that rotation "The Four Horses of the Ozzie-lypse" or somesuch?

costanza - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#130214) #

I think it's kind of harsh to criticize Escobar too much for the fielding play... didn't the ball bounce off his Cuzzi? (I'm not sure, because while they replayed the last part of the play at least a dozen times, I don't think they showed the whole play more than once or twice).

Surely that must've been a bit disorienting...

Besides, going into the playoffs, the Angels looked like a one-man offence, and with the Sox so completely shutting that one man down, it's hard to throw too much blame at any of the Angels' pitchers.

On another note, Steven Brunt has said many times, in disparaging Moneyball, that he'd like to see "Omar Minaya's book". Well, maybe it's just me, but I think there's probably a really interesting book that can be written about Kenny Williams. I think I'll finally officially stop referring to him as the "guy who ran over his own base coach" now. :-)

VBF - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#130215) #

didn't the ball bounce off his Cuzzi?

It's all those Cuzzi moments haunting us. I understand.

costanza - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#130216) #

As was pointed out in the post-game, the Sox used 12 players in the three games in Anaheim.

I believe that Ozuna's two pinch-run appearances (he didn't even play in the field), and Cotts' two-batter, seven-pitch outing (plus Buehrle) bring their total number of players used in the series to 15.

Unreal...

Jonny German - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#130218) #

I wondered if the praise of Kenny was going a little too far, but looking over their roster he really does deserve a lot of credit. He was responsible for the acquisition of many of the players that have been key to the Sox this year (Garcia, Contreras, Hermanson, Dye, Iguchi), as well as important smaller pieces (McCarthy, Cotts, Politte, Marte, Vizcaino, Jenks, Pierzynski).

Mike Green - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#130219) #

The Sox are also in pretty good financial shape for 2006. There are really no difficult contracts, and most of the key players, save for Konerko, are under their control. They've got a decision to make with regard to Crede, but my guess is that both Crede and Konerko return and probably at above market rates.

The signing of Iguchi was inspired, and Williams deserves a heap of praise for that.

Craig B - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#130220) #

Kenny Williams has been underrated for a while now, probably more than anything because he was pretty awful when he first took the position. He's learned a lot and earns a lot of praise around baseball for his intelligence and clarity.

These White Sox clearly bear the mark of Having A Plan. Once again, it shows that the best GMs have plans for both the long term and the short term, and have plans at high levels and lower, more fine-grained levels.

Kenny's plan has clearly been to build his team around his pitching staff and a superb defense, and it shows. A lot of the guys he went out and got, like Uribe, Podsednik, Dye and Iguchi, are tremendous defenders, and Rowand and Crede are terrific as well. A fair amount of what people see as "pitching" in the White Sox's case is in fact defense.

But the one guy who more than anything deserves credit for the White Sox making the World Series is Don Cooper. Cooper's charges have all been tremendous, and there isn't a single one of those guys that he hasn't given a lot of help to. Maybe Hernandez, but he's running out of gas.

You know what's most noticeable about Don Cooper? His starting pitchers don't get hurt. They stay healthy all year. It could be luck, but I don't think so - I think Cooper's got them in programs where they can succeed and stay healthy.

Brandon McCarthy might end up with a better career than Felix Hernandez. You read it here first.

Extremely aggressive starting pitching, an bullpen that pitches with the lead, a terrific defense, and one big long-ball hitter at first base. Does this remind anyone of a certain well-known team of the mid-1980s? (HINT : CARDS CARDS CARDS CARDS CARDS)?

Gitz - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#130221) #

I've not checked out Baseball-reference.com, but I am completely forgetting who the slugging first baseman on the Cards was .... until literally just now! Jack Clark! Huzzah for the mysteries of memory recall!

Petey Baseball - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#130222) #

I'd just like to thank Mike Wilner for being Mike Wilner.

Magpie - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#130223) #

The last to do it, according to Fox, anyway, was the Waite Hoyt/George Pipgras Yankees in the 1920s.

The 1956 Yankees threw five consecutive complete games in the World Series - Whitey Ford, Tom Sturdivant, Don Larsen, Bob Turley, and Johnny Kucks. Of course, Turley lost his game 1-0 in 10 innings - so they didn't have four straight CG victories.

costanza - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#130224) #

Wow, just did a google search on ("Kenny Williams" moneyball) and found 1240 hits! A couple interesting columns were this one from msnbc suggesting that the Sox are a true Moneyball team and this discussion piece from baseballanalysts.com.

I didn't really know much, beforehand, about the way in which many of this team's players were acquired. For all the criticism Williams got for the Carlos Lee deal, it seems he really did have a good offseason.

You know... the more I look at the White Sox team, the more I do want to root for them in the Series, if only because they show (yet again) that it is possible for a mid-payroll team to compete with the truly big spenders. (It'd be nice too, in a way, to see Frank Thomas get a ring, even if he didn't really contribute anything this year)

Kieran - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#130225) #

Interesting re: Frank Thomas...could be him or Jeff Bagwell who takes home a ring. Two of the greatest hitting first basemen of the last 20 years, and neither of them had any real impact on their respective teams' successes this year...a bit sad.

Pistol - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#130226) #

And both born on the exact same day!

Cristian - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#130228) #

I'm not ready to annoint Kenny Williams a genius just yet. His staff isn't the culmination of great short term/long term planning but the result of hitting the lottery with low cost acquisitions. OHernandez and Contreras were pitchers any team could have grabbed. Sure, Kenny had the foresight to grab them but he couldn't have expected them to play as well as they have. Garland is also a case of hitting the lottery. He'd been mediocre at best up to this year. I doubt anyone expected Garland to pitch as well as he did. I'd be surprised if he plays this well next year. Hermanson is also as surprise. Although here, I'll give management credit for pulling the plug once he became ineffective.

They've also been lucky with Dye and Everett. I'll never be sold on the ChiPod deal. They may have won 99 games this year. But they would have won about 105 if Carlos Lee isn't traded away. Rowand has blossomed, Iguchi exceeded expectations, and Crede has shown up in the playoffs after being a zero most of his career.

I don't want to take anything away from the Sox. They're a good team and they've been fun to watch this fall. However, they sure seem to have had a lot go right for them this year. Frank Thomas' injury is really the only bad luck they've had all year.

Mike D - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#130231) #

But they would have won about 105 if Carlos Lee isn't traded away.

Very possibly, but that assumes that all of the other Sox acquisitions (Iguchi, etc.) would have been possible with Lee's salary still on the books. The trade saved the White Sox $5.85 million:

Lee $8M
Podsednik $550,000 + $300,000 signing bonus
Vizcaino $1.3M

jgadfly - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#130232) #

I don't think I can ever be a Kenny Williams fan because of the way the Jays were stiffed in the Wells/Sirotka deal...that one trade really was the beginning of the end for Ash IMO

Magpie - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#130233) #

I'm not ready to annoint Kenny Williams a genius just yet.

No, but his sh*t is working pretty well so far.

Two very gutsy moves have worked out. One is the Lee for Podsednik deal, which I was pretty sure Williams would regret for the next five years. (Not so much because they lost Lee - they needed to get rid of Lee. They first time they saw Lee in pre-season 2005, the White Sox pitchers were throwing at him, which says something was wrong in the 2004 clubhouse.) But I thought Podsednik's big rookie year was an age 27 fluke, and that he might hit .235 this year. He did a little better than that (not a lot, he's not a good offensive player). But he improved them defensively, and he helped change the culture of the team.

But trading Loaiza for Contreras - that was not picking up cheap unwanted talent. That was taking a chance on a guy with a big contract who hadn't come anywhere close to living up to expectations. (It's possible that El Duque's role as mentor and fellow Cuban compadre for Contreras may have been even more valuable than what Hernandez contributed on the mound this season.)

Plus, the Sox didn't get lucky with Dye and Everett. Dye is simply a good hitter, and has been one since 1999 (save his injury year). Plus he was moving from Oakland to US Cellular. Everett didn't have a particularly good year, by his own standards - you could say maybe they were lucky to get 135 games out of him. It was obviously prudent to have a Plna B around in case Frank Thomas didn't make it back. Juan Uribe and Aaron Rowand actually had much better years with the bat in 2004 than they did this past year.

The Sox were indeed lucky to have a starting pitcher (Garland) make a surprising step forward (I'm not convinced he can sustain it either.) On the other hand, it was too bad that the closer (Takatsu) stunk, but Ozzie went to Plan B (Hermanson) right away (by mid-May), and when Hermanson got hurt, they actually had a Plan C (Bobby Jenks, off the scrap heap.)

They did a lot of things right, and they had a lot of things work out right. It was ever thus...

slitheringslider - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#130234) #

Garland is also a case of hitting the lottery. He'd been mediocre at best up to this year. I doubt anyone expected Garland to pitch as well as he did. I'd be surprised if he plays this well next year.

Garland was drafted 12th overall sometime in the late 90's and there were great things expected of him. The potential is definitely there. Besides, he is only 25(?) and it is definitely not too late for him to blossom. Garland would never dominate, but I think he could be a valuable steady inning eater in a rotation.

Cristian - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#130235) #

Wow. That's what I get for writing a "Kenny Williams is not a genius" post in 5 minutes and with minimal research. Well picked apart guys.

I didn't realize that there may have been some clubhouse issues with Carlos. I also forgot to account for the salary discrepancy between CLee and ChiPod. I also forgot that Hernandez came over in a trade for Loaiza. I also didn't realize that Garland was drafted so high. Did I get anything right in my post?

Magpie - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 05:00 PM EDT (#130237) #

Did I get anything right in my post?

I'm with you on Garland! He'd been pretty mediocre coming into this season, and looking at his K rates made you very nervous indeed. He seemed just as likely to fall off the cliff as launch into orbit...

Mick Doherty - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#130238) #

Still, Jon Garland for Matt Karchner ranks as one of the top 20 or so heists of modern baseball trades -- it's not there with Robinson for Pappas or Brock for Broglio, but on the next tier, for sure.

VBF - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 06:10 PM EDT (#130240) #

Some bad news.

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20051017&content_id=1253129&vkey=pr_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

Nick - Monday, October 17 2005 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#130245) #

Here is a different type of potential bad news:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2194428

ESPN is reporting that the Yankees have been given permission to speak with Leo Mazzone about their pitching coach position. We all know the Yankees will have the resources to compete, our best hope is that they squander those resources. If they can somehow lure Leo Mazzone, I believe those chances diminish considerably. My hope and first instinct is that the Yanks would have to severely overpay to lure Mazzone and even then Leo stays put, as he has been with the Braves for a number of years and enjoys a good personal and working relationship with Bobby Cox. Why he'd want to compete with Streinbrenner's personal pitching experts in Tampa and leave a 14-time division champ is beyond me. Is that wishful thinking? The report sounds like right now the process is in the preliminary stages but I believe a Mazzone hiring would give the Yankees poor pitching depth a pretty significant boost, or at least more than any other pitching coach in MLB could provide.

Thomas - Tuesday, October 18 2005 @ 12:15 AM EDT (#130247) #

I hope this is part of an arrangemeent where Leo will use whatever money the Yankees throw at him to ask the Braves for a salary increase. Mazzone makes $400k (about what Dave Duncan makes) and that is top of the line for pitching coaches. I'm sure the Yankees would throw at least a million at him, probably a couple of million. Atlanta will offer Mazzone the same contract, or something close, and he'll stay. At least, that the way I think it will work.

If it's for real, he's the most important signing of the offseason and will guarantee New York's return to the postseason.

Thomas - Tuesday, October 18 2005 @ 12:16 AM EDT (#130248) #

..guarantee New York's continued presence in the postseason.

CaramonLS - Tuesday, October 18 2005 @ 02:19 AM EDT (#130249) #

Another great post season moment is born.

Pujols comes through for the Cards.

King Ryan - Tuesday, October 18 2005 @ 03:48 AM EDT (#130250) #

Hey where's our buddy Coach been lately? Hope he's doing OK. I remember him being a big Cards fan and I haven't seen him in a long time.

Kind of hoped he'd be in here talking about the greatness of Mr. Pujols. :)

What a shot that was though. The whole moment was just unbelievable. Pujols hitting, not just a homer, but a MAMMOTH shot onto the train tracks, and then just standing there calmly as if to say "damn, I just got under that one."

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