Bad News for Blue Jays fans:

"Stuart Sternberg is expected to take control of the Devil Rays today, ending Vince Naimoli’s decade-long tenure as managing general partner of the franchise.

The immediate impact of Sternberg’s takeover was felt Wednesday, when Rays general manager Chuck LaMar and several members of his staff were fired."

If the Orioles ever get around to firing their two-headed GM and hiring someone competent (or even better, if Peter Angelos sold the team to a non-meddling owner), there'd be five potentially lethal teams in the AL East. Nothing like a challenge to get the pulse racing.

Don't forget everyone to vote in the Internet Baseball Awards. Balloting ends on October 12th.

My IBA ballots - when we have the IBWA balloting later this fall, I will likely have a similar ballot, but I'll talk about it at THT or something. For now, just the rankings.

NL MVP

Lee
Pujols
Bay
Wright
Willis
B Giles
Clemens
A Jones
M Cabrera
Carpenter

AL MVP

A Rodriguez
Ortiz
Tejada
V Guerrero
Hafner
M Young
Jeter
Sizemore
Teixeira
Santana

NL Cy (IBA allows 5 on the Cy ballots)

Clemens
Willis
Carpenter
Oswalt
Peavy

AL Cy

Santana
Buehrle
Colon
M Rivera
Halladay

NL Rookie

Howard
Francoeur
Duke

AL Rookie

Chacin
Gomes
Blanton

NL Manager

Cox
LaRussa
Robinson

AL Manager

Guillen
Macha
Gibbons

Argue away!

The TB news might be bad for the Jays long-term in that the new guys might be more clued in, but it might be good short-term as TBay has a glut of outfielders and needs to make a move... LaMar was apparently very difficult to deal with, and the new GM may want to make a splash.

No Tadahito "The Gooch" Iguchi or Huston Street on your AL Rookie of the Year ballot?

Craig has an interesting article in today's THT on the San Francisco 1st round drafting strategy.

My IBA ballot is quite similar to Craig's. My AL Cy Young vote went to Rivera over Santana. Rivera's year was pretty routine for him, but the starting pitchers had an off-year. Halladay would have had my vote easily had he stayed healthy for another 4 weeks. I discounted Santana's performance at the end of the year somewhat because the Twins were out of it.

Willis over Clemens in the MVP but Clemens over Willis in the Cy Young, Craig? Is that intentional?

Craig, the major difference I have with you is I left Miguel Tejada off my ballot. His last two months were not good, and the Orioles basically laid down in September. Tejada is supposed to tbe the leader on that team and I was surprised by how he played in September.

I like Blanton and Street for AL ROY.

Yes, the reverse of Clemens/Willis in MVP/Cy is intentional.

You all make good points.

Okay.

The Jays' season has been over for a couple of days now and the Hinske-Pujols trade still hasn't happened. Clearly it's time for Ricciardi to be fired.

Matthew, I don't know what is wrong with you, but please, please, PLEASE stop. No one is intersted in your clumsy sarcasm. We were talking about something totally, totally different, and you come in here making snide remarks totally unrelated to anything in this thread. It isn't clever, it isn't funny, and it looks to me like another attempt to turn the discussion away from baseball back to the endless GM-related squabbles that have driven all the baseball talk away from here. I *beg* of you... let sleeping dogs lie.

What do you think it would take to get Chad Tracey in a Jays uniform? Young player with good power, upside, can play 1B and RF. Cheap. BP talks about a logjam in the 'D-backs OF and 1B that will force them to trade someone - probably tracey because Clark was given a no trade clause with his two year extension.

Thoughts?

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'm not sure where else to post this.

Take a look at this article.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/Canada/2005/10/04/1248173-cp.html

In light of the upcoming World Baseball Classic, I think this story raises an interesting question. It's been suggested that with our pitching and with the hand full of big bats we boast that Canada could be a potential dark horse, and with some luck could make some noise at this tournament.

With this in mind, how far should the team be willing to go to pursue such success? As the article points out, the team is comfortable poaching players of different nationalities who lay claim to (sometimes marginal) Canadian connections. On the surface, there should be no issue. If these players can qualify as Canadians under the rules set forth by the sanctioning body, then they should have just as much right to suit up in the rred and white as anyone else. But I think we can all agree it's not that simple. Being born here, having Canadian ancestory, or living here for a few years does not mean one is necessarilly Canadian. For example, if a playe has a great grandparent who was Canadian, but that player himself has never even set foot on Canadian soil, should he be allowed to play?

Professional sports over the years has become an increasingly more fickle enterprise, one devoid of any loyalty once so ever. Teams are more and more simply a ragtag composition of what can be described as for-hire mercenaries with no loyalty to the team they play for outside of their contract.

For this reason, international competition provides an interesting contrast to the typical attitude prevalent in professional sports. Unlike in the pro game, players actually hold a sincere attatchment and sense of loyalty to the teams they play for. Of course, they should, it's their country.

We saw this at this year's homerun derby, where players, the Dominicans especially, displayed a sense of passion in representing their country's colours that is seldom seen in cases where players are representing their pro ball-clubs.

It's because of this that I ask... are we comfortable with this practice of poaching anyone with the tiniest of connections to Canada, all in the name of success? If Canada can win, does it really matter that a chunk of the players representing our country don't hold all that much (if any) loyalty to it?

Or is success worth jeopardizing if it means the Team Canada that takes the field is one that is truly proud to be able to represent their home?

I think it's a difficult question. Anyone who followed the Olympic team, and anyone who also saw the documentary that documented their exploits at the tournament, will not failed to have noticed how much it meant to those players to represent Canada and throw on the jersey.

I'd like to think that without such passion and dedication any succeess that comes Canada's way is somewhat diminished. But can I say that? If Canada were to go far in this tournament, and if they were to do it on the backs of "non-Canadians", in the heat of the moment, would I care?

Would you? I'd like to get your opinion on this.

What do you think it would take to get Chad Tracy in a Jays uniform? A year ago, I thought was a young Hillenbrand. The D'Backs then traded the original (older and more expensive) to Toronto. Tracy layed mostly 3B in 2004, and hit .285 with just 8 HRs. I sure didn't see a 27 HR year coming.

He's obviously a more valuable player if he can play 3B for someone, and as long as Troy Glaus is around, he won't be doing that in Phoenix. I think Arizona would have to be just nuts to move him. He's not even arb-eligible yet.

What would it take? I dunno, a good number two-starter?

No one is intersted in your clumsy sarcasm.

While I agree that the endless GM chatter has been dull and repetitive, I giggled when I read Matthew E's post.

Matthew E ... get it together, son! The Hinske-Pujols trade can't happen NOW because the Cardinals are still playing! Give it a month!

The Canadian rule for international competition is that a player is Canadian as long as he/she is a winner. However, should the player be busted for a drug violation, the player will immediately be considered Jamaican. Or does this rule only apply to track and field?

For me, a non-Canadian player representing Canada is no different than a non-Torontonian representing the Toronto Blue Jays.

I think it's totally different.

It's always been accepted that the Blue Jays represent Toronto only in name.

The Canadian national team on the other hand can be seen as a measurement of Canadian baseball and its development. How the team does is a statement of where the game is in Canada. How the Blue Jays do says nothing about the Canadian game.

From what I've read, we're talking about a small handful of players - Jesse Crain, Chris Woodward, Mark Teahen. Players that would be useful to Team Canada but aren't going to take spots from budding superstars. I think you need to balance the desire to reward players who have been part of the developmental programs with the competing responsibility to field as strong a team as possible. Adopting a pure laine approach isn't going to do anything for the future of baseball in this country if it means running out a team that's an also-ran. By contrast, if Team Canada performs well and develops an international profile, you just might see a reinvigoration of the game at the grassroots level, so that eventually we won't have to beat the bushes for these types of players.

In the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure that the Chris Woodwards and David Teahans are going to be that integral to the team. If the Canadian team is going to make an impact, it'll be because they've got Larry Walker, Jason Bay, Jeff Francis et al.

Though I do think, for the record, that Chris Woodward can qualify as an honest-to-goodnes Canadian: Played for the Jays, lived in Toronto, married a local girl. On top of that, he's a quiet, unassuming and polite sort of fellow, which certainly qualifies him as a Canadian in spirit, if not in law.

And of course, Canadians are often happy to claim as their own people with only the most tenuous connection to the country: How often do we hear about Jim Carrey being Canadian, despite not living here for several decades? I remember Brian Williams would always make a big deal about players being Canadian; one would think that "Canadian Paul Quantrill" was in fact the reliever's legal name. (though Q did still live in Ontario, as I recall)

Four Seamer,

Good point about the effects a winning team would have on the grassroots game.

However I question your use of the term pure laine. That's a pretty loaded phrase, and I'm sure you know I wasn't speaking of "real Canadians" in a racial sense.

Ryan,

You're right. It's a small amount. But I was speaking more theoretically. Poaching a couple of players here or there isn't going to to drastically effect the character of the team. But in principle, do we agree with this?

As for Woodward, I don't think playing for the Blue Jays really qualifies as any real means for Canadian citizenship. And he may have lived in Toronto, but did he accept it as his long term home, and does he see himself as a Canadian? For example, if he feels any kind of connection to this land, why has he waited 'til now to pursue citizenship?

I don't know about Jim Carrey, but another actor that is relevant is Mike Myers. I'm fairly certain he takes up residence in the States and has so for a while, but nonetheless he still identifies himself as Canadian and is always promoting the country. I think things such as identification with the country is far more important in cases like these then birth or residence.

If Canada were to go far in this tournament, and if they were to do it on the backs of "non-Canadians", in the heat of the moment, would I care?

When Petr Nedved starred for Canada at the '92 Olympics, I remember a small amount of grumbling about it, but most people seemed to be fine with it, and IIRC his motives for playing for Canada at that time were much less "genuine" than they would be for Woodward, Crain, etc at the WC.

I, personally, would be fine with anyone with a "legitimate" tie to Canada playing in the World Cup.

However I question your use of the term pure laine. That's a pretty loaded phrase

JayWay, my apologies. I certainly wasn't intending to imply anything nefarious. Had I thought it might be read that way, I would have phrased it differently.

Chris Woodward spent parts of the offseason in Toronto and had a home in the area when he was the team. He was very active in charitable endeavours, and I particularly remember a story about him and Ken Huckaby spending several days in the Hospital for Sick Children in December.

He married a Canadian woman and he presumably still comes up to the area at times to visit her family and her friends. I think his citizenship is very valid and while the tournament may be the event that prompts him to make his request, I don't think you can say that he never would have become a citizen otherwise. If this was a widespread issue it may be another discussion, but practically opposing Teahen, Crain or Woodward because they are not "true" Canadians is splitting hairs, IMO.

"and IIRC his motives for playing for Canada at that time were much less "genuine" than they would be for Woodward, Crain, etc at the WC."

Do we know what their motives are?

I don't know much about the Nedved situation, so you'd have to fill me in on that.

The standards that are being discussed have long served the most international of games - soccer - very well.

A young player by the name of Owen Hargreaves - from Calgary - plays for Beyrn Munich as the last World Cup approached three national squads sought his services. Germany, Canada and England. Hargreaves claims ancestery with both Germany and England. In the end he chose to give his services to the England team. Thus he will never qualify to play for Canada.

Brett Hull chose to play with Team USA for his own reasons.

However, I do understand Jay Way's concerns. A few years ago a fairly lousy soccer player by the name of Mark Bircham played for Millwall of the English first divsion. His geat uncle or some such thing was a Canadian. The CSA asked Bircham to try out for Canada. When the English press asked him what he knows about Canada his response was; "I can find it on a map".

I think the charitable work points to him being a good guy, not necessarilly being Canadian. And wouldn't it be a necessity to have a home in the area if you play for the team?

"I think his citizenship is very valid and while the tournament may be the event that prompts him to make his request, I don't think you can say that he never would have become a citizen otherwise."

But you can't say for certain that he would have.

"If this was a widespread issue it may be another discussion, but practically opposing Teahen, Crain or Woodward because they are not "true" Canadians is splitting hairs, IMO."

I know that. Like I said above, I ask this question theoretically, not specifically in regards to the players named. The article, whether by fact or whether by the subjective exaggeration on the part of the author, did paint a picture somewhat in which the team officials were content to aggressively search out players with marginal Canadian connections. I think, whether it's true or not, goes beyond merely stumbling upon a player or two who are eligible.

Brett Hull chose to play with Team USA for his own reasons.
I believe, way back when, Hull didn't make the Canadian squad, so he suited up for the US, thereby making him inelegible to play for Canada in future tournaments.

First, a correction, it was the '94 Olympics, not '92 for Nedved.

Anyways, my recollection is that Nedved was a free agent that couldn't come to terms with the team that owned his rights. (He was a restricted free agent, meaning other teams could sign him, but would have to "fairly" compensate the Canucks if they did)

Nedved's decision to join the Canadian National team came at least partly a way of finding a place to play during his "holdout" while being able to showcase his skills to increase his market value

Hargreaves isn't German. His eligibility stemmed from his status at the time as a permenent resident (since he played for Bayern).

I don't agree with what Hargreaves did. In fact, as it stands, I really quite dislike him. He claimed that his heart was set on playing for Canada and that he would be capped once he had settled in Germany. Of course he changed his tune quickly when England learned of his English ancestery and approached him to suit up for the U-20 squad.

Hargreaves could have done so much for the game in Canada if he had suited up for our national team. Instead he decided to play for a country he knew little of and had never even been to. Now his influence could possibly set Canadian soccer back. When the Canadian press tried to contact him for an explanation, he snubbed all interview requests with Canadian reporters.

As for Bircham, I agree with you. He's a likable guy and brings some colour (literally [his hair] and figuratively)to the team, but the story about him learning the national anthem from South Park was really quite sad.

Thats my recollection as well. IIRC he also made a big issue of it because he felt he was snubbed.

I think that was just a convenient excuse. Long after he was cut from (I believe) the U-16 team, he had made his desire to represent Canada known. It was only after he'd suited up for England and had to justify his decision that he pointed to being cut.

Well you know all these stories, with more vivid details than I can recall.

But the fact remains these qualification rules are pretty much international standard across the board. So I have two questions.

Why should Baseball Canada not field the best team they can under accepted international qualification standards when the world doesn't seem to have a problem with it?

And why would we not do everything we can to beat the great baseball nation of Saudi Arabia?

I basically offered up what I see as the main argument against poaching players in my first post. Do we want international competition to resemble elements of the pro game's free agent based structure?

I don't think there's one clear answer to this. It's a matter of what you value. If winning is all that's important, then it won't matter. If the character of the team and being able to relate to them (as the country evidentally did with the Olympic team) is important, then one is more likely to have a problem with it.

I really don't know where I stand. I'd like any Canadian national team to be made up of players who wear the jersey with pride, but at the same time, I can't say I wouldn't cheer just as hard if a team of Marc Birchams led the team to victory.

Matthew E ... get it together, son! The Hinske-Pujols trade can't happen NOW because the Cardinals are still playing! Give it a month!

You're just defending Ricciardi blindly. Typical of this site.

Matthew, I don't know what is wrong with you, but please, please, PLEASE stop. No one is intersted in your clumsy sarcasm. We were talking about something totally, totally different, and you come in here making snide remarks totally unrelated to anything in this thread. It isn't clever, it isn't funny, and it looks to me like another attempt to turn the discussion away from baseball back to the endless GM-related squabbles that have driven all the baseball talk away from here. I *beg* of you... let sleeping dogs lie.

I may in fact be guilty of posting off-topic, but I think a majority of the posts early in this thread were on all different topics.

And no-one may in fact be interested in my clumsy sarcasm, but I have to play to my strengths.

As far as trying to hijack a discussion toward an endless squabble, I will let my record speak for itself.

Anyway, everyone knows that the only thing anyone could get in trade for Hinske is a draft pick.

Hey Craig, lay off Matthew will ya! Matthew's one of the best posters this site has an he was just making a joke, who cares if you didn't like it?

Hinske... for a draft pick?? That makes me wonder... the Cleveland Browns need a running back, maybe the Jays can trade Hinske to them for their 1st rounder which would translate into a 1st rounder in the ML draft! Hinske would be better off in football anyway!

Lame, I know...

Umm, I think Matthew was making a joke in that you can't trade draft picks. :)

That said, is Ted Lilly an unrestricted free agent this year, and is anyone actually watching "The Toronto Sun Sports Show" right now?

and is anyone actually watching "The Toronto Sun Sports Show" right now?

Who would subject themselves to such a thing?

It was alright. Mike Wilner was on as the voice for all that is good.

Sal Butera has been named Special Asst. to the GM.

Which leads to the eternal question .... who would you rather have as your backup catcher, Buck Martinez or Sal Butera?

O f***. It was supposed to be a joke. I meant to say 'restricted free agent', since that status doesn't exist, but I failed miserably at any humour.

Re: Nedved playing for Canada just to increase his market value...

I remember watching an inteview after a game at the Olympics where Nedved was asked what it felt like to wear the Maple Leaf.

Nedved's response was something like, "Well if that happens, it would be great, but we'll just have to see what happens".

The inteview was on the ice immediately following a game, and Nedved was thinking Toronto Maple Leafs, and not about the leaf on his jersey.