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Advance Scout Mini-Advance Scout: Yankees, September 23-25
There wasn't a chance this week to put together an analysis of the Yankees this weekend, but they're playing the most motivated ball they've played since at least the 2003 playoffs.

If the Jays want to steal a game or more, they'll need to do it with the bats. Toronto was unlucky to be shut down by Shawn Chacon last weekend, and Jaret Wright and Chien-Ming Wang are far from unbeatable. But the ferocious Yankee offence is starting to fire on all cylinders. Here's what the Jays are facing this weekend.

Posted by Mike D on Friday, September 23 2005 @ 05:30 PM EDT.
Mini-Advance Scout: Yankees, September 23-25 | 15 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Friday, September 23 2005 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#128713) #
Against Chen last night, the Yanks sat Giambi, moved Cano up to #2 and had A-Rod hitting 3rd. The Yanks' offence does not look quite so fearsome against a lefty.

I'd be giving Sheffield some intentional passes with 1st not occupied. He's absolutely killed lefties with runners on for a number of years.
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Jabes - Friday, September 23 2005 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#128714) #
This David Ortiz for MVP arguement is the silliest I've heard in awhile. Sure, I don't think because he's a DH he should be discounted from the award but it's irrelevant because A-Rod is clearly the best player in the AL this year.

To qualify these arguements for Ortiz, most of these writers make small reference to A-Rod's excellent defense and speed on the base paths. He's the best defensive and offensive player the Yankees have. Do you really think the Yankees would be anywhere near 1st place without him?
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Mick Doherty - Friday, September 23 2005 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#128715) #
Poor Bernie. Such a lousy late career year has dropped him from being a career .302 hitter to his current state of .298.

I recall something similar happening with Al Kaline when I was a wee small lad. But I think .300 could be a chip to get Bernie into the HOF, and Kaline was going regardless.
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Ron - Friday, September 23 2005 @ 06:31 PM EDT (#128716) #
Baring a sudden rash of big injuries or a shocking decline in performance, would you think it's fair to say by the time A-Rod's career is over, you could say he's one of the top 20 players to ever play the game?

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Mick Doherty - Friday, September 23 2005 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#128718) #
I think that would horribly unfair to A-Rod. Top 5 is more like it. I mean, name another player who has been a Gold-Glove caliber fielder at TWO infield positions (Ernie Banks, maybe), had 50-homer power and 40-steal speed.

The only thing Ruth has on this guy is the pitching.
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Jabes - Friday, September 23 2005 @ 08:50 PM EDT (#128720) #
Baring a sudden rash of big injuries or a shocking decline in performance, would you think it's fair to say by the time A-Rod's career is over, you could say he's one of the top 20 players to ever play the game?

If A-Rod left the game today to start his acting career he'd be considered one of the top 20 players of all time. I don't even really like A-Rod but he has a shot at being considered the greatest player of all-time.

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Mike Green - Friday, September 23 2005 @ 09:02 PM EDT (#128721) #
Hmm. I think A-Rod's the MVP this year, but if he's going to end up as a third baseman for most of his career, he will have to put in a long, long run to be one of the top 5 of all time. His career OPS+ through 2004 (age 28) was 143. Ruth's was 218. At age 28, Eddie Mathews had been a better hitter, and was a good defensive third baseman.

Anything's possible, but A-Rod has to age 28, not been one of the top 20 hitters.
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Jabes - Saturday, September 24 2005 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#128798) #
What stats are you looking at? How is Mathews a better hitter? He's not. I'm not even counting A-Rod's stolen bases either.
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Mike Green - Sunday, September 25 2005 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#128819) #
Here's the comparison. Most of his career so far, A-Rod has had the ballpark working for him, whereas Mathews succeeded in spite of it. Hence, A-Rod's OPS+ of 143 and Mathews of 153. A-Rod, of course was a GG quality shortstop, and if he had continued there, his place among the immortals would indeed have been near the top.
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Mick Doherty - Sunday, September 25 2005 @ 01:19 PM EDT (#128820) #
Anything's possible, but A-Rod has to age 28, not been one of the top 20 hitters.

I don't have a problem with that argument, but we're not talking top 20 hitters, but top 5 players.

He won't catch Ruth, of course, nobody ever will unless someone comes along who singlehandedly changes the game offensively AND has a Hall-of-Fame quality pitching career; but A-Rod has been a Gold Glove shortstop AND an excellent baserunner/leading base stealer ... So, for instance, while Ted Williams was a better HITTER, I think you can make a sound and defensible argument that A-Rod has already been the better PLAYER.

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Mike Green - Sunday, September 25 2005 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#128823) #
You'd have to take an extreme view of the value of a shortstop's defence to make the argument. From age 22-28, Williams was far superior offensively to A-Rod, to the tune of 40-50 runs per year. A-Rod was, and is, very good with the glove but he's not Ozzie or Maz. I doubt that it amounts to 40-50 runs, but even if it does, Williams was productive until he was 41 years old.

To compare apples to apples, Arky Vaughan was a better player through age 29 than A-Rod. He was a little better with both glove and bat; of course, Vaughan's career ended early, so if A-Rod has a normal career length, he will likely surpass Arky.
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Mike Green - Sunday, September 25 2005 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#128824) #
And that's the nub of it. If A-Rod's 30s are like Joe Morgan's or Mike Schmidt's, you'll be able to argue that he was one of the top 5 position players. If they are like Arky Vaughan's 30s, he won't be one of the top 40.
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Jabes - Sunday, September 25 2005 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#128866) #
How exactly are these stats adjusted? A-Rod has a highter avg, obp, and slg than Mathews through age 28. He also has about 2 seasons more of at-bats.
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Magpie - Sunday, September 25 2005 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#128872) #
How exactly are these stats adjusted?

Besides the park factors, much of it is the offensive context. Rodriguez played much of his career in the highest scoring era since the early 1930s. Consequently, Eddie Mathews creating 147 runs in 1953 had a much bigger impact than Rodriguez creating 157 runs in 1996. Mathews' bat helped his team win more games.

So who are the top 20 position players of all time? The top two - Ruth and Wagner - seem to be a no-brainer. After them: Mays, Cobb, Mantle, Musial, Bonds, Williams, Speaker, Gehrig, Aaron, Collins, Morgan, Schmidt, DiMaggio, Hornsby... well, that's 16. I think you can certainly talk about Rodriguez along with those guys. I'm not convinced - yet - that I'd rank him ahead of any of them, except maybe Hornsby.

Still, while Rodriguez' peak years are probably in the book, he's certainly still building his legend.

As always, apologies to Josh Gibson, Oscar Charleston and a few others who almost certainly belong here as well...

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Mike Green - Monday, September 26 2005 @ 09:59 AM EDT (#128884) #
Brett would be somewhere there. Rodriguez so far has hit a little better than Brett did over his long career. We'll see where they are in 2012.
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Mini-Advance Scout: Yankees, September 23-25 | 15 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.