Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Jays 5, Rays 6: Missed it by that Much

The Jays rallied from 3-1 down to take a 5-3 lead into the ninth. At which point they turned the game over to Miguel Batista. Oops. Batista is having a second-half from hell. Again.

Curiously, the game turned on two slow rollers hit by Travis Lee to Shea Hillenbrand. Shea, who made a couple of lovely scoop and flip plays on similar balls yesterday and today, misplayed both. He couldn't field the ninth inning roller cleanly, and the tying run crossed the plate - in the eleventh his throw home short-hopped Zaun, and the winning run crossed the plate.

Not that this game should have come down to that.

Posted by Magpie on Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 05:30 PM EDT.

Jays 5, Rays 6: Missed it by that Much | 24 comments | Create New Account

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braden - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#127817) #

I'm not sure if a clean throw would have had Gathright. He got there pretty quickly.

I think it's time we amend JP's offseaon wish list and add 'reliable closer'. Though I'd be quite content if that move came from within and Speier was given a real opportunity. I just hope Batista is playing elsewhere come April.

Rob - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:09 PM EDT (#127818) #

I missed the end of the game. Looks like it was a good couple of innings to miss.

What the hell happened on this play?

"Russ Adams flies into double play, right fielder Damon Hollins to second baseman Nick Green to first baseman Travis Lee. Eric Hinske doubled off 1st." (GameDay puts that Adams fly ball at the 404 mark, at the wall in RCF.)

Was it a tremendous play by Hollins or a bonehead play by Hinske?

Rob - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:18 PM EDT (#127820) #

Oh, and why was Gibby tossed? It happened after a swinging strikeout; the exact reason isn't obvious to me.

Magpie - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#127822) #

It was a tremendous play by Hollins.

JZK - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#127824) #

Lately, he's been reliably awful. If the Jays were actually in the Wild Card race, this stuff would be even worse to take than it is now. Do you think the rest of the team gets as pissed off as we do when he blows a game? Damn.

Magpie - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:24 PM EDT (#127825) #

Rios struck out on a foul tip, and Gibbons thought the ball hit the dirt before Hall snagged it. Replay indicated that Hall's glove definitely kicked up some dirt, which Gibbons surely saw, but he did seem to catch it cleanly. Gibbons asked the home-plate umpire to get some help, and got the heave-ho.

JZK - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:24 PM EDT (#127826) #

Uh, by "he", of course, I mean Batista.

Magpie - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:31 PM EDT (#127827) #

Do you think the rest of the team gets as pissed off as we do when he blows a game?

It's always the most frustrating of the many, many ways to lose. But I think the rest of the team, like players everywhere, are saying "sh*t happens. It's never easy."

That's pretty much what the Tampa guys were saying about Danys Baez on Saturday. Baez has blown more games than Batista, of course, so they've had a little more practise.

andrewkw - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#127828) #

Hey guys, don't post here often mostly just read, but what do you think about going after BJ Ryan in the offseason? He'd probably be almost as much as Burnett and with less upside, but there would probably be less injury risk. Less teams are likely to be bidding on him then Burnett. It also may or may not be a good thing he's only been closing one year since closers seem to burnout faster then other pitchers. Batista would then hopefully be traded, or worst case an expensive 5th starter / swingman.

CaramonLS - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#127829) #

Amazing.

See what happens when JP decides not to deal one of his best assets (Batista), he goes out and drops his value through the floor.

I think Speier is our closer next season, hes been very impressive and his there is just so much movement on his pitches he is nearly impossible to hit.

No need to go out and get a Closer unless Farnsworth can come at a half decent price (~3 million).

Magpie - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 08:12 PM EDT (#127831) #

Padres lost today as well, so the Jays are still in a dead heat for first place in the NL West.

That's my rooting interest over the final three weeks. Can the Jays win the West? It's going to be tough. San Diego has a much easier schedule. After all, they have lots of games left against the NL West...

Pistol - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#127833) #

Am I a bad fan if I hope the Jays finish the year with the 16th best record (thereby assuruing that they can't lose a 1st rounder if they sign someone)? It is in the long term interests of the team (in theory).

greenfrog - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#127834) #

Is there some reason why Batista *has* to be used in every save situation? Frasor just had a great 1/3 of an inning in the eighth. After the top of the ninth, all I could think was- wouldn't it be great if Gibbons broke with conventional wisdom and left Frasor out there to finish it off? Or brought in Speier? You're up by two, Batista is struggling and just pitched the night before. Why push your luck?

It seems to me a case of 'the emperor has no clothes.' Everyone knows that right now Miguel is unreliable. But no one wants to say- hey, we have a better chance of winning this game if we leave Frasor in there. Or bring in Speier.

Lucky - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 08:55 PM EDT (#127835) #

I posted this on the latest minor league update article but didn't get a response. The Dunedin website says that David Smith was the Florida State League Player of the Month for the month of August. I am assuming that this is the TOPPS player of the month award. That's a pretty good honor. His stats for August looked really good. I don't recall seeing any other baby jays winning that this year, or am I wrong?

Craig B - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 08:57 PM EDT (#127836) #

I don't think you're a bad fan for wanting this.

I think you're an utterly perverse fan, mind you.

In fact, I'm not sure you're a fan at all. Maybe you're a fan of the GM or of Rogers or something? I'm not doubting your "fan credentials" or anything, it's just that I literally can't understand that attitude. I friggin' hate losing. Perhaps you just have a more intergrated long-term view of things, I don't know.

John Northey - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#127838) #

Greenfrog, I agree with you on Frasor. He doesn't have a save this year after being the closer at times last year. Leave him in, let him get a save, give Batista a bit of rest. If Batista is frustrated over it, just let him know that Frasor deserves at least one after getting 17 last year. Tell him you are saving him for the Boston series.

Ah well. Guess they want to get Batista to 30 saves and hope that makes someone jump on him in a trade in the winter.

smcs - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#127839) #

I don't recall seeing any other baby jays winning that this year, or am I wrong?

I may be wrong in this but I believe Chip Cannon won the FSL Player of the Month for June.

Flex - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#127840) #

Regarding the question of whether the rest of the team gets as pissed off as we do when Miguel has a hiccup, Elliott's column today suggests they do. I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw this, but for those who didn't, someone on the team apparently told him that one of the three things the team needs for next year is a closer, "someone who blows people away." Elliott called it a "stunner" that someone on the team would say this, then offered statistics as to why he agreed.

Lucky - Sunday, September 11 2005 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#127841) #

I knew he was a player of the week, but I must have missed seeing the player of the month award.

slitheringslider - Monday, September 12 2005 @ 12:56 AM EDT (#127842) #

Is there some reason why Batista *has* to be used in every save situation?

I do personally agree with you on that one, it just really annoying when they take an effective pitcher out after 1/3 of an inning. But the reason why they do that is because it brings stability. Remember the bullpen the last two years when they had closer by committee. It is true that the committee is a lot less talented then the group this year, but that maybe due to the fact that everyone knows what there role will be and would not just show up to the park one day and get thrown into a one-run lead in the ninth. But the stability of their role is something the management wanted for the last two years, and they don't want to mess it up after a "few" bad outings by Batista.

nicton - Monday, September 12 2005 @ 07:26 AM EDT (#127845) #

What is the wish list for this off season??

I would think more teams would have interest in BJ Ryan than Burnett. Atleast two other AL East teams, with huge payrolls, have significant holes in their bullpens.

John Northey - Monday, September 12 2005 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#127882) #

To me the wish list is...
#1 - a second ace starter to go with Halladay (AJ)
#2 - a solid closer (BJ)
#3 - a slugger who plays 1B or RF or LF - ideally outfield as it is easier to shift from outfield to 1B than the other way around - ideal slugger is a 400/500 OBP/Slg type.

Available to trade: one of Hudson/Hill/Adams, Hinske, 1 or more of Cat/Johnson/Rios/Gross depending on what is coming back, Batista, plus all other pitchers not named Halladay.

The most valuable assests for the Jays would probably be (with type of team interested)...
Rebuilding - Hill, Rios
On the edge - Hudson, Cat, Johnson
Risk takers - Lilly, Batista

Risk takers would be a team like Atlanta where they seem to make diamonds out of crap every year in that rotation. Rebuilding is the NL West and Kansas, Edge is anyone who is currently in contention but has a sinkhole somewhere on the team.

Alex0888 - Monday, September 12 2005 @ 05:39 PM EDT (#127901) #

How can you think of trading Towers or Chacin who have been somewhat solid starters this year?

subculture - Monday, September 12 2005 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#127902) #

I think that's a great summary of the jays needs, and why teams would want jays assets.

Top of my list though would be #3... I think the jays need one masher (like Dunn, Kearns, Delgado, Thome) to make the entire lineup more formidable (and get Wells more fastballs!).

A 2nd ace would be great but wouldn't help score runs, and their club era is already very good considering the quality of the bats the Jays pitchers have faced this year in their own division.

I think the Jays have a solid closer in Batista.. his stats (and results) are pretty good, but he doesn't inspire the kind of "automatic save" mentality when he goes out there. However, how many guys do? And what are their average salaries? There's maybe 5 closers that would be significant upgrades over Batista, and all might be too costly. I'm not sold on Spier as a closer until I see him close games... so he MIGHT be better than Miggy, but we don't know that.

Jays 5, Rays 6: Missed it by that Much | 24 comments | Create New Account

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