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A lot of big (or at least recognizable) names have reportedly cleared waivers.

Even if nothing ultimately comes of it, it's fun to think about who you'd target, what you'd be willing to give up (and, very differently, what the other club might expect you to give up!) ... hey, if it's time to quietly start up the 2005 Post-Season Blue Jay Bandwagon, it's time to think about who could help the most.

Here's a look ...

... at the best player available at each position. In fact, the current list -- including no less than four future Hall of Famers -- breaks down quite nicely into a standard 10-man starting lineup and 10-man pitching staff:

C Mike Piazza
1B Rafael Palmeiro
2B Edgardo Alfonzo
SS Rich Aurilia
3B Wes Helms
LF Matt Stairs
CF Ken Griffey Jr.
RF Dmitri Young
DH Mike Sweeney
RHSP Joel Pineiro
RHSP Odalis Perez
RHSP Joe Mays
LHSP Tom Glavine
LHSP Eric Milton
CL-R Braden Looper
RH-SET LaTroy Hawkins
LH-SET Jason Christiansen
LOOGY Steve Kline
RHRP Ryan Vogelsong

Other pitchers available include Jose Lima, Josh Fogg, Ramon Ortiz, Wes Obermueller and of course, Justin Speier and Scott Schoenweis, who are not included on the above list since the Jays don't exactly have to worry about acquiring them; but they'd probably be the RH setup man and lefty long man on this "team" if they were anywhere else.

Now, who do you want? And more to the point, who do you give up?

Trade Winds: Who's Out There? | 13 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Ron - Sunday, August 21 2005 @ 04:40 AM EDT (#126206) #
I have interest in Pineiro. I'm puzzled as to why he has struggled so far this season. I'm not sure if you can contribute it to injury or just the fact he's playing on a bad club and it's effecting his performance aka Greinke-Royals syndrome.

Despite his numbers this season, I still feel like he's capable of being a number 2 starter like he was in 2002 and 2003. I'm guessing the M's would want young arms. I'm sure many would strongly disagree with me, but I would think hard about a Chacin for Pineiro trade if it was offered.
Jim - Sunday, August 21 2005 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#126209) #
'I'm sure many would strongly disagree with me'

How's this?

Chacin for Pineiro should result in the immediate dismissal of the entire front office if they made that trade.

BallGuy - Sunday, August 21 2005 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#126210) #
Hmmmm, I'd have to say after looking over the listed players I vote to save the players and a little cash and see what is available in the winter in the FA market. As well, it may not cost the Jays as much in terms of players as the demand in the off season would presumably be lower.
GeoffAtMac - Sunday, August 21 2005 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#126227) #
Chacin for Piniero -- I don't think so. Somehow, the Jays were lucky enough to have Chacin step up his game over the last year, and a solid fourth man (maybe even a third man) has fallen into their lap without them having to pay. It would be crazy to trade Chacin for Piniero.

...On the subject of FA's in this coming off-season, I was listening to Mike Wilner's post-game analysis of the Tigers' pasting of the Jays 17-6 and he suggested the jays pick up Brian Giles and Paul Konerko for next year. I don't know about anybody else, but Giles will be too old (35 before the season starts) to sink money in him for too long of a contract (I am assuming he would want at least a two or three-year deal), plus he may want to play with his brother in Atlanta. Konerko, on the other hand, seems to be solidly in his prime. I was wondering what others thought about these potential acquisitions...

Also, Wilner said that there weren't going to be any other big bats other than the two listed above. Is that true? I thought that Hideki Matsui will be available, and shouldn't there be at least a couple more?

Leigh - Sunday, August 21 2005 @ 07:37 PM EDT (#126229) #
I don't think that Ron's Pineiro/Chacin suggestion is that far off. Pineiro (26) in his career: 2.2 k/bb, 6.2 k/9, 1.0 hr/9. Chacin (24) in his career: 1.6 k/bb, 4.8 k/9, 0.8 hr/9.

Pineiro's weighted mean PECOTA projection for 2005: 2.2 k/bb, 6.6 k/9, 1.1 hr/9. Chacin: 1.5 k/bb, 5.7 k/9, 1.3 hr/9.

Pineiro has shown a greater groundball tendency this season than has Chacin (1.23 and 0.94 GB:FB ratios, respectively), and less of a propensity for yielding line-drives (19.2 to 22.4 [thanks to THT for the LD% data]).

I'd probably take Pineiro for Chacin.
Jim - Sunday, August 21 2005 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#126230) #
I'm sorry but this is complete insanity. Piniero has shown a tendency to A: Not be good and B: To be injured.

He has an ERA of almost 6 at Safeco Field. 6!

Why would you compare a 2005 projection between 2 players when you know exactly what their 2005 results are? What good are career stats for a player who has struggled with injuries and is 2 years removed from a useful season - his strikeout rate is nowhere near what it was before the injuries hit.

Throw in the fact that you control Chacin for a longer period of time and Chacin is left-handed (Piniero isn't).

There is a reason why Piniero cleared waivers. Head on over to USS Mariner sometime and see if the intelligent Mariners fans would make this deal.

Leigh - Sunday, August 21 2005 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#126234) #

Why would you compare a 2005 projection between 2 players when you know exactly what their 2005 results are?

Because PECOTA has more predictive value going forward than 140 innings worth of stats.

Throw in the fact that you control Chacin for a longer period of time

You got me there.

Chacin is left-handed (Piniero isn't)

Right you are, but of what possible consequence is this?

He has an ERA of almost 6

ERA has far less evaluative and predictive value than the ratios that I cited in my earlier post. If we are going to objectively evaluate pitchers, it's probably best if we leave ERA out of it.

What good are career stats for a player who has struggled with injuries and is 2 years removed from a useful season - his strikeout rate is nowhere near what it was before the injuries hit.

His 2004 strikeout rate was 7.1, which is better than his career rate. Jesus, the man has had 2/3 of one bad season (2005) and you think he's no good?

XooM - Sunday, August 21 2005 @ 11:32 PM EDT (#126236) #
I have always wondered what could have possibly gone wrong with Joel Pineiro. After a couple of pretty good seasons in 2002 and 2003 he seemed like he was primed for an even better year. Maybe injuries had a lot to do with his regression? Or could it be that he's following the path of Chris Carpenter and all he really needs is the patience of a ball club. I sure wouldnt be opposed to acquirinfg Joel Pineiro and allowing Arnsberg to iron out his mechanics.. but only if the asking price isn't too steep because after all Chacin has done for the Jays, its getting more and more difficult to part with him.
TamRa - Monday, August 22 2005 @ 03:12 AM EDT (#126245) #
I think Kenrko has one distinguishing feature we are overlooking: He is the ONLY power-hitting free agent 1B on the market. that means he will be seriously overpaid by someone - likely the Mets.

Giles, OTOH, I believe would be an excellent signing. true, he's no threat to hit 30 HR anymore, but out of that monsterous pitcher's park in San Deigo, he could easily be a Molitoresque presence in our lineup.

That said, I believe that if we are to add power to our lineup next year, it's going to come via trade (assuming that neither Jose Guillen or Carlos Lee fail to have their options excercised).

Guillen would be a possible trade target, even if Bowden excercises his option;

Dunn would be the obvious choice (or one of the other Cinncinati outfielders) but, like Kenerko, has the misfortune (for us) of being everyone's favorite target;

One report had the Ranger's lkistening to offers for kevin Mench - I'd be all over that if it were true;

And then there are the young 1B who may or may not be available: Howard (add Howard and Giles to our lineup and we can play and win with any team around offensively), Kotchman, Adrian Gonzalez, or even Kevin Stokes from Florida (a big gamble). The dream here would be Conner jackson but it seems unlikely the D'Backs will trade him for any sane price.

But all of these are more to be prersued than paying Kenrko maybe 11-12 million for his 7 million dollar bat.
Jim - Monday, August 22 2005 @ 07:10 AM EDT (#126248) #
You might believe that PECOTA has more predicitive value going forward, but it wasn't even close on the 2005 predictions - why not wait until you see 2006 before you use the predictions.

Left handed pitching is always in higher demand then right handed pitching, it's a fundamental rule of baseball. Whether it can be proven that this is 'correct' is not anything I'm concerned with - I just know that left handed pitchers have more value in trade markets then right handed pitchers.

Hey I love stats, and I buy into things like K rates and K/BB ratios - but you can't ignore a pitcher getting battered around a pitcher's park like Piniero has for the last 2 seasons. He hasn't just been bad this year - if a pitcher has an ERA of almost 5 and works at Safeco, I don't care if he is striking out 7.1 per 9 - he's still getting beat up.

If Piniero is so great and has such a bright future why would
A: Seattle place him on waivers in the first place, when they have so little pitching
B: He clear waivers without a team even interested in blocking him from another contender - it's not a contract issue like almost every other player on that list.

Do not believe that I think that Chacin is a particularly good pitcher. It would not shock me if he never has another season as good as 2005. Piniero just isn't even worth a slot on the 40 man roster during the off-season.

In the real world you do not trade pitchers with a 3.5 ERA for pitchers with a 6.0 ERA, especially where the pitcher with a 3.5 ERA pitches in a much more difficult park and is cheaper as well as 2 years younger. If you really wanted Piniero you could certainly get him for less then Chacin.



Joe - Monday, August 22 2005 @ 09:03 AM EDT (#126249) #
Everybody is placed on (revocable) waivers during this period, simply to find out what deals are possible.

The fact that the Jays didn't put a claim in on any of these players, forcing either a) a trade or b) the revocation of the waivers, tells you that the front office doesn't have any interest in these players right now. That could change in the next 8 days, but I doubt it will.

Jonny German - Monday, August 22 2005 @ 10:10 AM EDT (#126254) #
Or could it be that he's following the path of Chris Carpenter and all he really needs is the patience of a ball club.

The Chris Carpenter path involved recovery from major shoulder surgery... what he needed was not patience, but a whole lot of faith. Carpenter didn't just make a full recovery, he'd never pitched to his potential before the surgery.

B: He clear waivers without a team even interested in blocking him from another contender - it's not a contract issue like almost every other player on that list.

Pineiro is making $4.2M this year and $6.3M next year. I agree with most of your other points, but the contract is definitely an issue.

Jim - Monday, August 22 2005 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#126267) #
'I agree with most of your other points, but the contract is definitely an issue.'

Yep, sorry - contract is a huge issue, I just thought he was arb eligible.
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