Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - This Day In Baseball: 18 July 2005

This Day In Baseball: 18 July 2005

All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth.
--- Ted Williams

Al Leiter was a winner in his Yankees debut. Last night the former Blue Jays returned to the American League after 10 years with the Marlins and Mets. He gave the Bombers all they could have hoped for: 6.1 IP with 8 Ks, just 3 hits and 1 run. Boston now leads the division by just .5 game over the Yankees.

Joe Kennedy was a winner in his Oakland debut. He was returning to the American League as well, and he came out of the bullpen to work three scoreless innings before Oakland finally beat Texas for the third time in four days.

Jon Garland and Chris Carpenter both improved their records to 14-4. Garland worked six shutout innings against Cleveland. Carpenter, matched up with Roger Clemens, was utterly brilliant: a CG three-hit shutout, with 9 Ks and 0 walks. The Game Score was 90. Carpenter is the only pitcher with more than one 90+ games this season: he has three. In his 8 starts since June 3, Carpenter is 7-1, 0.70, which is getting it done.

Roger Clemens, a tough-luck loser this day, came into the game with a 1.48 ERA and actually lowered it in defeat to 1.47. This was the fifth time the Astros have been shut out during a Clemens start.

Not a full schedule and all the action is tonight:

AL
Tampa Bay (Kazmir 3-7, 4.59) at Boston (Miller 2-3, 5.03) 7:05
Kansas City (Carrasco 4-3, 3.57) at Cleveland (Lee 9-4, 3.89) 7:05
New York (Brown (4-6, 5.48) Texas (Rodriguez 2-1, 3.71) 8:05
Detroit (Douglass 2-0, 2.65) at Chicago (Hernandez 7-2, 4.88) 8:05
Baltimore (Bedard 5-1, 2.08) at Minnesota (Silva 7-3, 3.53) 8:10
Oakland (Saarloos 5-5, 3.87) at Los Angeles (Santana 3-4, 6.20) 10:05

NL
Colorado (Kim 2-7, 5.46) at Washington (Armas 4-4, 4.97) 7:05
Houston (Backe 7-6, 5.06) at Pittsburgh (Williams 7-6, 4.38) 7:05
Chicago (Williams 1-3, 4.89) at Cincinnati (Claussen 4-6, 3.61) 7:10
Milwaukee (Santos 2-9, 3.50) at St.Louis (Morris 10-2, 3.10) 8:10
Florida (Vargas 0-0, 0.00) at Arizona (Gosling 0-2, 4.61) 9:40
Atlanta (Sosa 4-1, 2.89) at San Francisco (Correia 1-0, 3.60) 10:15

Posted by Magpie on Monday, July 18 2005 @ 11:00 AM EDT.

This Day In Baseball: 18 July 2005 | 43 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Paul D - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#123058) #

I think Al Leiter winning is great news for Blue Jays fans. If he can win another couple of starts, they might think that they have a good pitching staff, and hold off trading for anyone good. Then, when Leiter falls apart, we can enjoy the Yankee meltdown.

Joe - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#123059) #

Could it be possible that a Jay and an ex-Jay will both win the Cy this season?

Chuck - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#123062) #

Could it be possible that a Jay and an ex-Jay will both win the Cy this season?

I can't see Halladay winning given the time he'll miss. Too bad, he's pitching way better than in 2003. With a little run support, a different ex-Jay would be in line for the NL Cy.

Gitz - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 12:26 PM EDT (#123064) #

Actually, Magpie, Kennedy made his debut Saturday, allowing a couple of runs in their only loss of the series.

Ducey - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#123068) #

Rotoworld says:

The Baltimore Sun believes the Orioles are close to acquiring A.J. Burnett and Mike Lowell from the Marlins for Hayden Penn, Jorge Julio and Larry Bigbie.
Marlins prospect Eric Reed and Orioles lefty Steve Kline might also change teams. A source told the Sun that an announcement could come today, but a team official said it is doubtful it would happen that soon.

Lefty - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#123070) #

It looks like this deal has advanced past the rumour stage now.

Didn't Ricciardi request Florida to call him before any deal goes down?

I reckon the problem for the Jays in any deal resembling this one is the Marlins insistance that Lowell be included. After reading the Balt. Sun story it looks like that is also the part of the equasion that is holding up their deal.

Pistol - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#123071) #

I suspect the Jays are out of the running for Burnett. Any talk of them being involved has dried up in recent days.

I'm interested in seeing what the final package ends up being.

Mick Doherty - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#123075) #

That Baltimore package doesn't really do all that much for me.

costanza - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#123076) #

Yes, and Leiter's "Yankee debut" came about 18 years ago. :)

(18 years ago? 18?! Wow, am I getting old! :-)

Thomas - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#123080) #

I suspect Lefty and Pistol are right. I doubt the Jays are in the running for Burnett anymore and I think it's mainly due to Lowell. Reports indicate Baltimore, Boston and possibly the White Sox are all willing to take Lowell in the right deal, and I suspect JP balked at having to eat Lowell's contract, given a) the price in players we are paying for Burnett to begin with, b) the money necessary to resign him and c) the fact we already have Hinske's contract on the books.

Wedding Singer - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#123081) #

Mick, I think the Jays could assemble a better package than Baltimore centred around Chacin & Gross, but to echo Lefty's point, the key to the deal is Baltimore's willingess to take on the $20M left on Lowell's contract. If JP was willing to take back Lowell's contract, I think that he would have a deal.

That being said, I don't think that JP should do this. If Lowell doesn't bounce back, you are essentially paying $20M a year for Burnett for the first two years.

An interesting gamble on Baltimore's part,m though........

The Bone - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#123082) #

Yeah - that's what Buster Olney said in his chat this morning - J.P. balked at including Lowell in the deal

Jefftown - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#123084) #

I will be happy when Burnett goes to another team. I never liked the thought of gambling on him, and know the extra money coming next year can be spent more wisely.

I see a deal for Burnett a lot like the Yankees getting Pavano. The Jays cannot afford to spend $9 million on a guy who has injury troubles and has proven himself to be a solid, but not dominant, pitcher (in a pitcher's park, mind you.) That is not even to mention spending $20mil on Lowell.

I wonder if this whole time J.P. was bluffing in order to lure Baltimore into an unfavorable deal.

Of course, the deal's not done yet, and anything can happen.

sweat - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#123086) #

If the Orioles do take Lowell, do they have a young star to slide in at third? Or might they want a right handed hitting third baseman?

The Bone - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#123088) #

According to Olney, Miggy Cabrera comes down to third and Bigbie platoons with Conine in left

Thomas - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#123090) #

Jefftown, you also need to remember that this year's crop of FAs is weak and Burnett, injury woes or not, is the best pitcher on the market. I don't support trading for Lowell, either. However, I think $9 million would have been a pretty fair price for Burnett considering the lack of arms available this offseason and the amount of money that Boston, Baltimore and the Yankees might throw at a power arm like Burnett's. At some point the Jays are going to wind up having to pay more than "market value" for a player simply because that is the only way they'll sign him.

Ducey - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#123093) #

Here is Ken Rosenthal's opinion of the proposed AJ Burnett trade to Baltimore. He doesn't seem to like it from Baltimore's end:

http://www.sportingnews.com/experts/ken-rosenthal/20050718.html

Mike Green - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#123094) #

Jay pitching has been significantly better than league average this year. The minor league system is heavily weighted towards pitching, including a number of prospects who are considered potential "top of rotation" types if that is considered to be important. Meanwhile, the team's hitting has been much below league average. I don't understand the impetus to buy pitching at above-market prices given the strengths and weaknesses of the organization.

Mike Green - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#123095) #

Did the Splendid Splinter mean to include this manager in his assessment?

Jonny German - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#123103) #

Jay pitching has been significantly better than league average this year... the team's hitting has been much below league average.

I scratch my head every time I look at it, but however much it may seem that the Jays are pitching well and hitting poorly, the stats don't bear the sentiment out... they currently rank 7th in MLB in runs per game (5th in the AL) and 15th in ERA (6th in the AL). The Rogers Centre has played as the 8th-most friendly hitter's park in the Majors, with a run park factor of 1.11, so it probably is true that the pitching has been better than the hitting, but not by nearly as much as you'd expect.

I'm not in favour of the Jays pulling out all the stops to get Burnett, but if a top pitcher is easier to acquire than a masher, I say go for it. Odds are there is at least one top-of-the-rotation starter on the farm even as we speak, but odds also are that he won't be altogether reliable before 2008.

Mike Green - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#123106) #

The Jays have allowed 4.46 runs per game against a league average of 4.73 despite the favourable hitting environment, according to THT. A.J. Burnett has allowed 4.32 runs per game in the more favorable environment in Florida, and that has been with him being more or less healthy. I truly fail to see the attraction; Burnett has no better chance than Dustin McGowan or Ricky Romero to be a great pitcher in 2007.

Jordan - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#123107) #

Lowell has been referred to as "Sammy Sosa's twin"? Ouch. Reading between the lines, there's another reason JP wouldn't want to sign off on that deal.

Ideally from the Jays' point of view, of course, Burnett would have ended up out of the AL East altogether. But it appears Baltimore or Boston will be his destination, so that can't be helped. (Those two teams will be Toronto's major divisional rivals for the better part of the decade, unfortunately.)

Looking at it from a strictly competitive point of view, though, having the O's make this trade now would be better for the Blue Jays in the long term. Instead of simply waiting till the season is over and offering Burnett a FA contact, Baltimore is choosing to give up a good-looking pitching prospect in Penn and a fine short reliever in Julio (Bigbie is mostly baggage, near as I can tell). In addition, they're forced to pick up Lowell, who shows every sign of being a major albatross.

Baltimore would be far more sensible to pay only the money and the draft picks this winter, recognizing that their best years lie ahead of them (and that Penn can do a lot more for them if he was in their 2007 rotation with Burnett). But if they want to overpay this summer for a high-risk pitcher and take on a bad contract to boot, more power to them.

From Florida's perspective, I think the deal makes very good sense: they ditch Lowell, get something better than draft picks for Burnett (whom they wouldn't have re-signed), and move their best hitter to his natural position while freeing up Lowell's salary to buy a replacement outfielder.

Here's a fun question: who will have the better corner infielders, the Marlins (Cabrera and Delgado) or the Rangers (Blalock and Teixeira)?

Mike Green - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#123109) #

It was not clear to me until I saw Lucas' stats (and confirmed by THT's) that Texas is an extreme hitter's park. Cabrera is a better hitter than Blalock by a huge margin. Delgado is actually still a better hitter than Teixeira. The Texans are better defenders, of course, but the difference would have to be large to offset the batting difference.

Flex - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#123112) #

The most disturbing bit of news I took from the Rosenthal piece was this: "righthander Ismael Valdez, who has been sidelined all season with a hairline fracture in his right shin."

Which makes me think that expecting Roy back this year might be optimistic. I'm just hoping Roy's fracture wasn't as bad.

Rob - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#123116) #

According to the Boston Globe, Boston is looking for a reliever and J.P. "believed to have asked for" Hanley Ramirez for Miguel Batista.

Ramirez is a SS, though he has moved to 2B lately in lieu of the relative success of Renteria and Bellhorn. Last year at age 20, he made the A-AA jump nicely, as his GPA went from .261 to .290. However, his batting average and OBP remained the same; once he left the FSL, his isolated power went from a bad .059 to a decent .147. This year, his power is down (.102) while his average dropped almost 40 points. As a shortstop, he needs to hit about .280 to be league-average, as that would put his OBP in the .334 to .340 range (based on previous walk rates). He has terrific defensive skills, too.

Boston must have turned down the deal, as I would make that trade if I were the Jays. No doubt.

Does anyone with more knowledge of Boston's prospects know why Ramirez is listed as not being on any team? It says "Portland Sea Dogs" from April 7 to yesterday. He's still on the Portland roster, but his profile page claims otherwise.

Named For Hank - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#123117) #

Halladay's fracture was the least-bad kind of break you can have.

CaramonLS - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 06:14 PM EDT (#123118) #

Boston has said over and over again Hanley is untouchable.

sweat - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 07:04 PM EDT (#123122) #

If they lost the right guy, right at the deadline, they would move Hanley.

Jordan - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#123125) #

Sometimes I think GMs make counter-offers as a nice way of saying "Buzz off." Perhaps Theo phoned asking about Batista. Perhaps JP, not the least bit interested in moving his closer to a division rival, asked for Ramirez, which would have communicated a lack of serious interest in making a deal (since I can't see Boston making that trade). If the reports about JP asking Texas for Teixeira in return for Wells are true, that would be another example. Maybe that's how GMs maintain civil discourse over a long season; they talk in code.

Rob - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#123126) #

I just saw Brown throw his first inning since his injury (no rehab start) and he was just okay. He broke David Dellucci's bat, actually, so at least one pitch had some nasty stuff on it. The ball is moving tonight in Texas (as we're all aware) so if he gives up a homer or two, it's probably not that bad.

He was consistently throwing 91-93 mph and he had a nice pitch to Mike Young (changeup, I think) that was 64, according to the YES gun. One of these changeups showed up as 58 and it had no movement. It was whacked by Texeira, predictably. Overall, his pitches were really moving well -- especially the sinking fastball, which clocked in at 85 a few times.

(Ruben Sierra is playing right field tonight, for reasons unknown to man. Sheffield apparently needs a rest -- he's the DH -- but...Ruben Sierra?? Well, I guess the alternative is Womack in right, which is awful.)

Brown, however, had a hard time getting them out. He left meatballs up in the zone, and this lineup loves 85 mph down the middle. He actually struck out two -- Young, when Brown was still sharp, and Gary Matthews, Jr., after some fatigue set in. That was a long inning. Brown fiddled around after every pitch, and he threw damned near 35 pitches. After looking it up, it was 38.

If you only saw the boxscore, rest assured Kevin Brown pitched just as bad as his first-inning statistics showed.

Soriano did something really stupid on his single, by the way. It went over Bernie's head in CF and the ball rolled to the wall. Soriano didn't make it to second as he was loafing to first, thinking it was gone. Apparently he did that with the Yankees, too -- I don't remember, myself.

Gwyn - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#123131) #

Another starter returning to the division is Erik Bedard. He's doing way better than Brown, through 5 innings - 0R, 4H, 2BB, 6K. His curve and cutter have been superb, Matt LeCroy had a couple of hard hits off his fastball but that's been about it.

CaramonLS - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#123138) #

Yeah of course if Anahiem offered K-rod, Shields, Kotchman for Hanley then of course they would do that deal in a heart beat.

My point is, Hanley isn't going to be moved because he is untouchable (in a realistic deal sense).

Jefftown - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#123143) #

I've scratched my head about the White Sox all year. Losing to the Tigers tonight in the 7th, 4-1, then break out with 3 HR in one inning vs. a guy (Chris Spurling) who has given up only 1 HR in 24 IP. It looked like Konerko, Crede, and Uribe, the guys who hit the HRs, knew what pitch was coming.

Cliff Pollitte...the bullpen version of Chris Carpenter this year. An 0.96 ERA this year, but he just gave up a HR to Pudge Rodriguez.

Mick Doherty - Monday, July 18 2005 @ 11:43 PM EDT (#123149) #

I think by definition, Mike, if Teddy Ballgame complained that all managers were losers, that his own 273-364 career mark would fit that.

I understand his problem was the same one Magic Johnson had -- lousy coach/manager because he couldn't relate to players who didn't have his natural ability.

Lefty - Tuesday, July 19 2005 @ 12:02 AM EDT (#123151) #

Been a low key one for one trade today.

Cleveland sends Jody Gerut to the Cubs for Jason Dubois.

Is Dubois the power bat the Indians were said to be in the market for? Is this trade buying or selling?

sweat - Tuesday, July 19 2005 @ 07:42 AM EDT (#123163) #

thats not what i said. If boston lost the right player, like clement for example, they would be a lot more willing to move Hanley to get an above average replacement.

Joe - Tuesday, July 19 2005 @ 08:45 AM EDT (#123164) #

Is this trade buying or selling?

Why must it be one or the other?

Pistol - Tuesday, July 19 2005 @ 08:45 AM EDT (#123165) #

JP basically said Lowell was the deal killer for Burnett.

The article also said the Jays would be willing to sign Burnett to a Carl Pavano contract (4 for $40).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050719/JAYS19/TPSports/Baseball

Jordan - Tuesday, July 19 2005 @ 09:09 AM EDT (#123166) #

I'm sorry to see the Indians get Dubois -- I really thought he'd be a great fit for the Jays at 1B/DH next season, even in a platoon role to begin. That said, the Indians have a pretty fine DH already, though Dubois would make a more than decent platoon with Ben Broussard at first base.

Dave Till - Tuesday, July 19 2005 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#123174) #

Baltimore would be far more sensible to pay only the money and the draft picks this winter, recognizing that their best years lie ahead of them (and that Penn can do a lot more for them if he was in their 2007 rotation with Burnett). But if they want to overpay this summer for a high-risk pitcher and take on a bad contract to boot, more power to them.

The problem, as I see it, is that because the Jays' divisional rivals have so much money, they can afford to throw lots of it away. For a team like Baltimore or the Yankees, the cost of taking on Lowell's contract is a part of doing business.

The Jays aren't rich enough to overpay players by this much. Because they make sensible decisions, they wind up with a smaller talent pool than their rivals. Sigh. No one ever said life is fair.

Sometimes I think GMs make counter-offers as a nice way of saying "Buzz off."

That makes sense. I also think that some GMs live in Cloud Cuckoo Land, and honestly believe that they can sucker their rivals into making bad trades.

I suspect that one difficulty that J.P. faces when trying to trade is that first he has to spend several weeks telling his fellow GMs that Aaron Hill is not available. Once the other GMs face reality, perhaps serious business can then be conducted.

Lefty - Tuesday, July 19 2005 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#123178) #

Thats right. Its a flat out exchange of baseball talent with little consideration to costs. To me this is a refreshing approach.

Jordan - Tuesday, July 19 2005 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#123179) #

There's now talk that a third team, the Pirates, has entered the Burnett deal. The idea is that Lowell might wind up in Pittsburgh, which makes no sense to me unless someone like Penn or Julio (or a lot of money) goes with him. Would the Pirates, of all teams, really be willing to take on that brutal contract?

If the O's can get Burnett without taking on Lowell, though, they should certainly go for it. That would make the deal less damaging to Baltimore's prospects.

Lefty - Tuesday, July 19 2005 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#123187) #

It looks like the Indians plan to throw him into left field.

Toronto did have their shot at him as a rule 5, he came to the Jays spring training in 03.

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