Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

It is time for you to laugh instead of crying
Yes it's time for you to laugh so keep on trying

There's no shame in this one - the Ex-Spos sent a better pitcher (Livan Hernandez) to the hill than the Jays did (Ted Lilly). Livan was hardly dominating with only 4 strikeouts to 3 walks, but it was enough to improve his record to 11-2. Roy Halladay vs. Livan Hernandez would make a great match-up in the All-Star Game - I hope it happens. Too bad it didn't happen last year when both of these guys were still with Canuck teams.

A pretty uneventful game from Toronto's perspective. Gregg Zaun went 2 for 2 with an RBI, Scott Downs went 2 innings without giving up a run. That's about it. I'm glad I'm not "Replacement Fordin" David Selig and have to write about this thing.

One thing I would like to write about is a recent Batter's Box poll which suggest that Bauxites believe that Frank Catalanotto is going to be dealt before the deadline this year. My question:

Who wants Frank Catalanotto?

The obvious answer (to me) is any contending team who is trying to patch a hole made in their lineup due to injury. However, there doesn't seem to be too many outfielders that will be out for a significant amount of time.

Injured Outfielders
ANA - Steve Finley     - Back early July
ARI - Luis Gonzalez    - Back end of June
BAL - B.J. Surhoff     - Back early July
DET - Magglio Ordonez  - Back early July
DET - Bobby Higginson  - Back July
LAD - J.D. Drew        - Day to Day
LAD - Milton Bradley   - Back late June
LAD - Ricky Ledee      - Back late June
MIN - Jason Kubel      - Out season
PIT - Craig Wilson     - Back late July
SDP - David Roberts    - Day to Day
SDP - Eric Young       - Back early July
SDP - Freddy Guzman    - Out season
SFG - Barry Bonds      - Back late July
SFG - Marquis Grissom  - Back early July
WAS - Ryan Church      - Day to Day
WAS - Terrmel Sledge   - Out season
WAS - Alex Escobar     - Back July

Source: Rotoworld.

Nobody jumps out here as absolutely needing Frank Catalanotto, except possibly the Dodgers and the Ex-Spos, who arguably could use the depth.

What about playoff contending teams who are playing replacement level players at a corner outfield position? There are a few teams that look like they could use Frank Catalanotto:

Replacement Level Outfielders for Contenders
TOR - Frank Catalanotto  - LF - 202 PA -  6.9 VORP
BAL - B.J. Surhoff       - LF - 152 PA -  3.1 VORP
CHC - Todd Hollandsworth - LF - 182 PA -  1.2 VORP
LAD - Jayson Werth       - RF - 117 PA -  0.5 VORP
TEX - Richard Hidalgo    - RF - 241 PA - -0.1 VORP
BAL - Larry Bigbie       - LF - 151 PA - -0.4 VORP
LAD - Jason Repko        - RF - 133 PA - -2.3 VORP
ATL - Raul Mondesi       - RF - 155 PA - -4.3 VORP
ATL - Brian Jordan       - LF - 211 PA - -5.4 VORP
NYY - Tony Womack        - LF - 261 PA - -8.9 VORP

Source: Baseball Prospectus.

I'm not convinced that Cat is going anywhere. He's not a huge upgrade over most of these guys, and you'd figure that teams like the Yankees and the Braves could do better if they decide to upgrade. The Dodgers still seem like a pretty good fit, though.

Question of the Day: If you think Cat is going to get traded, where is he going, and who will the Jays get back in return?

Posted by Pepper Moffatt on Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 10:02 AM EDT.

Ex-Spos 5, Jays 2 | 16 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

The Bone - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#120695) #

To Oakland for a B-/C+ level prospect. I don't see Beane trying to rebuild further because his team is out of it, he has previously coveted the Cat, the Cat is inifinitely better offensively than Kielty/Byrnes and reasonably priced for 2006.

Or, in a dream world, Cat is packaged with say, Hudson and Bush or Chacin for Zito

The Bone - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 10:21 AM EDT (#120696) #

By rebuild further I mean go into a pure selling mode - sorry I didnt make that very clear

googlemay - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 10:21 AM EDT (#120698) #

Well , I see him going to Atlanta

To Atlanta:
Frank Cantalanato OF

To Toronto:
Anthony Lerew RHP (baseball america ranked him having the best fastball in their system)

Pistol - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#120700) #

I can't imagine Cat generating enough interest to bring back anything that worthwhile to the Jays besides allowing the chance to see if Gross can play and free up a little money to use somewhere else down the line.

Read this in the Boston Globe today, although it may just be parroting the rumors floated in Toronto this week - although the Twins are a new twist.

"Scouts are tracking Toronto pitchers Miguel Batista, who will likely command a salary in the $5 million range, and lefty Ted Lilly; the Jays will also listen to offers for second baseman Orlando Hudson, with rookie Aaron Hill showing he is ready. The Twins could have interest in Hudson."

Jordan - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#120702) #

Atlanta does seem like a good fit -- Bobby Cox would probably love one of these "professional hitters" guys, and they need outfield help badly -- but like Pistol, I doubt the Jays would get much of anything back. The benefits of dealing Cat would be (a) freeing up some salary and (b) giving Gabe Gross a regular spot in the lineup -- both of which could have been accomplished by the simple expedient of not signing Cat to a two-year extension last fall.

I doubt Hudson will be dealt mid-season -- I don't think the return would be close to what he could command this winter, after his bat rebounds in the second half and he actually has the Gold Glove in his trophy case.

The other thing to keep in mind about trades is that the Jays are playing .500, and while I still don't think they have any shot at a pennant run, Ricciardi also doesn't want to rip the heart out of his team. Outside of a salary dump like Cat or the SS Loogy, I really think he'll only make an in-season trade that makes the major-league team better.

Dave Till - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#120703) #

I don't want the Jays to move Hudson until Hill has actually played second base or shortstop at the major league level. I'd want to make sure that Hill's double play mechanics are sound before putting him there. There's no point in installing Hill at second and then seeing him go on the DL six weeks later with a knee injury after being creamed on the pivot.

Cat is one of the few Jays actually hitting, and has frequently stated that he loves it here in Toronto. There would be negative fallout from trading him. Even if the Jays get more bats, he will still be able to play a useful role.

I would guess that Lilly will likely be dealt soon. The Jays have other options for the rotation, and Gibbons is pretty much fed up with him.

Lilly + one or two pitching prospects + Hudson might land somebody worthwhile; if there's going to be a big trade, that's probably what its components will be.

Another possibility, I suppose, is Lilly + Wells + pitching prospects for a big bat, with Sparky/Rios moving to centre.

Flex - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#120705) #

Just curious -- why would you need to include prospects in a trade that packaged Lilly and Wells? Both are proven major leaguers. The two of them alone -- or one or the other plus prospects -- should be enough to acquire a big bat.

Rob - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#120706) #

The real issue here is that Spencer Fordin was replaced by a Selig. Does nobody else find this disturbing?

Jim - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#120708) #

Thankfully the trade deadline is still over a month away because 5.5 games out of the wide open wildcard race is way to early to throw in the towel.

There would be some real benefit to the franchise just by being in a 'race', say 4 or 5 back around Labor Day.

Baltimore is fading quickly, the Twins don't seem like they are going to put it together, the Yankees have a laundry list of problems. Granted all three of these teams plus Cleveland and Texas probably have better teams right now, but you just never know.

sweat - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#120709) #

why trade cat for a b-/c+ level prospect, if we offered arbitration to him after next year wouldn't we get at least one reasonably high draft pick? shouldnt that coupled with another year at a pretty reasonable price tag make his value a little higher?

Jobu - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#120710) #

And really, if you're going to take team chemistry into the equation for staying in the race, wouldn't you have to consider anyone in Web Gem Row untouchable?

Lefty - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 07:20 PM EDT (#120716) #

Whats this about Rob? I've been out the loop a bit.

CeeBee - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 08:09 PM EDT (#120721) #

Trading Cat to dump contract doesn't make any sense at all. He's hitting close to .300 and really doesn't make that much anyway. If something worthwhile comes back or he's packaged in a larger deal it would possibly be ok, but just to give him away so Gabe gets more playing time doesn't really work for me. It's not that big of a liability to have 5 outfielders on the roster and I'm all for going with the hot hand or bringing in a guy for defensive purposes or pinch-hitting as the need arises.

John Northey - Sunday, June 26 2005 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#120726) #

I think the more I look at the team the less likely I see a major league hitter being traded. Lilly and Batista are possible still. The Jays seem to feel a need to be contenders this year, or at least close enough to tempt a free agent or two to actually sign here without needing to go overboard on salary (ie: pay like Detroit does). Where to improve? Getting a top flight starter would be nice, with A.J. Burnett iirc saying he was interested in Toronto due to our pitching coach, but Florida will not trade him unless they decide to do a 'White Flag/Sox' (ie: throw in the towel despite being in contention). However, pitching depth is there already. First base/DH power would be nice but who is out there that the Jays could get? Would the White Sox trade Frank Thomas? Would the Jays want him?

Normally I see dozens of possible trades (few being realistic but at least I see them) but this year I feel stumped. Who to trade? Hinske will not be wanted by many, Hudson is too useful with the glove, Hillenbrand could be useful but won't get much, Cat is the same, Sparky would be coveted but not enough to get an A-List prospect. Then where to put in a new player? 1B/DH/3B is over crowded once Koskie gets back, 2B and SS are spoken for, the outfield is weak but has tons of potential (Rios, Gross) which prevents replacing anyone. The offseason will see changes but that is about all I see. In-season will be hard outside of calling up guys to see what they have.

So if I was betting I'd bet on no changes in-season and lots of movement in the winter.

James W - Monday, June 27 2005 @ 08:10 AM EDT (#120735) #

From Peter Gammons' latest posting on ESPN.com:

Hey, J.P. Ricciardi has the same deal. When, for instance, the Phillies called about a Ryan Howard-Ted Lilly deal, Ricciardi said he won't trade Lilly. Still, stories keep cropping up. "I'm not trading Lilly," says the Blue Jays GM. "He's signed through next year to a reasonable contract, he's a starting pitcher and we're trying to build a winning atmosphere for the kids like Aaron Hill and Russ Adams, who are winning players who need to be playing in a winning atmosphere."

BallGuy - Monday, June 27 2005 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#120833) #

"...we're trying to build a winning atmosphere for the kids like Aaron Hill and Russ Adams, who are winning players who need to be playing in a winning atmosphere."

Then trade Lilly cuz he ain't helping much with his pitching or his attitude.

Ex-Spos 5, Jays 2 | 16 comments | Create New Account

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