Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Graves DFA'd By Reds

Sure, it's unusual to devote a new Batter's Box thread to a move from a non-Canadian organization.

But how often does a team designate its all-time franchise saves leader, a recent All-Star and a guy with 10 saves in 20 appearances through May 23, for assignment?

Danny Graves flipped a fan the bird and now he's gonna be a street free agent within 10 days unless someone -- paging Mr. Steinbrenner? -- trades for him and his US$6.25M salary. So, is Graves worth a shot, and if so, by who? And what would you give up for him, if anything?

Posted by Mick Doherty on Monday, May 23 2005 @ 05:19 PM EDT.

Graves DFA'd By Reds | 22 comments | Create New Account

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Thomas - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 05:32 PM EDT (#117483) #

Nothing. I would not give up anything for Graves and his contract.

If he was a free agent, maybe sign him to a minor league deal and see if he can get guys out a Syracuse, but with the way Arnold and Lundberg are pitching and the fact that Steve Andrade and Lee Gronkiewicz might need a promotion from Double-A soon, there may be trouble even getting him appearances at Triple-A.

VGeras - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 06:28 PM EDT (#117490) #

should be interesting to see how this plays out. Yes he is making a lot of money but he could be a capable reliever with the right team. I think he passes waivers but still gets a major league contract for lesser value.

Paul D - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#117494) #

I offer to take him off their hands, and pay his entire salary, plus give them a promising young pitching prospect (ie League, Rosario), as long as they throw in Pena or Kearns.

Rob - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 07:25 PM EDT (#117496) #

There's always Atlanta. I said two weeks until Graves is a Brave and I stand by that.

Ron - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 07:46 PM EDT (#117497) #

I wouldn't touch Graves with somebody else's hand.

I know several Red fans that were tempted to dance on the streets after finding out Graves will no longer be on the team.

Although he has flamed out this season, I can see a ML team giving him another shot.

Craig B - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 08:08 PM EDT (#117500) #

Eighteen bad innings (not really that bad) and the guy's suddenly a bum.

Graves is a pretty decent relief pitcher, if not an elite closer. I'd be happy to have him - though I wouldn't want to pay his salary by making a waiver claim or a trade.

Sean Casey was quoted in the AP story saying what an awful thing it was, and how much his teammates love Graves. Ken Griffey basically said the same thing. I think this is a terrible move by the Reds and a good opportunity for someone else. Management is looking for scapegoats when all along management's inability to get any decent pitchers is the root of the Reds' problems.

For years, there has been a lack of leadership and accountability in the Reds organization. It's unfortunate that it's continuing.

Flex - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#117502) #

I don't have in-depth knowledge of Graves, but you have to wonder whether his loss of velocity is entirely due to his work as a starter last year, or whether his struggles are related to those of other closers in this (as Ricciardi suggests) the first year of steroid testing.

Cristian - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#117504) #

For years, there has been a lack of leadership and accountability in the Reds organization. It's unfortunate that it's continuing.

Whoever would have thought that THIS would be the problem after Marge Schott was given the boot? I say bring back Schott. If I recall she had some controversial ideas on who made a good leader. Did Carl Lindner ever get the factories in Cincy running?

BallGuy - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#117506) #

I don't know about the steroids thing as he points to 2003 as the beginning of his troubles. Were it a steroid issue wouldn't his problems have only started this year?
The Jays should stay away unless they can sign him to a minor league deal and see if he can get it together. That won't happen because someone else will pick him up and he'll stay in the majors.

Mick Doherty - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#117516) #

is entirely due to his work as a starter last year

Minor nit to pick, I guess, but Graves had 41 saves last year. His misadventure into the rotation was in '03, so I think that probably dismisses that as an explanation.

Pistol - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#117519) #

I agree with Craig. I wouldn't claim him, but I'd give him a look once he cleared waivers.

I suspect that he'll have what he sees as better options so I'd be shocked to see him in a Jays uniform.

Rob - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#117521) #

BTF's Dan Szymborski says it's good that the Reds can trim their dead weight. I'm with Craig, I wouldn't call Graves dead weight -- only 18 innings, after all -- since he has a 3.77 ERA over the last three years in relief. And that's counting his bad numbers from this year.

He wasn't completely useless either...for the first month he was decent. May 2, 18 and 22 are his only bad outings. He gave up two homers in the first two outings there, so he must have completely melted down. I hope the Reds didn't turf him because he flipped off a fan -- that's just dumb.

I'm not a big fan of his K rate, but he is at least above the Michalak Line in these 155 relief innings. He should be with a AAA team for sure in the next little while, and perhaps even with...well, I don't know. Who needs a closer and is willing to pay for Graves? I wouldn't.

The Reds already had him and were already paying him, so it's not the same -- they probably should have kept him unless they knew he wasn't going to improve. If he gets through waivers and there is minimal cost, then I, as the GM of whatever team, would inquire about a minor-league contract. Absolutely nothing more.

mathesond - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#117522) #

As an owner of Ryan Wagner, I was sorely disappointed to see the save opp. go to David Weathers. But back to reality...Graves will definitely wind up on a major league roster. A pitcher with a proven track record will easily find employment among one of the 30 teams. Perhaps even San Francisco...or the Cubs

danjulien - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#117523) #

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=5649
This guy is not as bad as he is being made out to be...Check out his stats in April and then his next 7 appearences. His ERA essentially ballooned in 2 of his next three appearances where he gave up 9 ERs while recording 4 outs.
In April he gave up a hit an inning while walking one an inning...so definitely had struggles but there's no way this guy shouldn't be expected to have a below 4ERA this season
That being said...not worth 6 million, but I the Mets might sniff it out

Mick Doherty - Monday, May 23 2005 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#117525) #

Let's see ... a team with a lot of money always looking for pitching which has lost its top two setup men in the last month. That would be your Texas Rangers. This is a team that gave John Rocker a chance, remember. A year ago if you'd suggested "Danny Graves and Steve Karsay setting up Francisco Cordero," there would have been "best bullpen in baseball" talk.

I actually don't think he'll end up in Arlington, but it'd make sense. And Hershiser has a lot of fans among pitchers who needed to bounce back out there.

Terran - Tuesday, May 24 2005 @ 01:16 AM EDT (#117527) #

Graves had two terrible app raising his ERA from 3.45 to 7.36. I'd rather have Batista closing but Graves would be a great set-up man.

Seeing as Cin already went ahead and designated Graves for assignment, they killed most of their bargaining power, didn't they? If they were to assume most of his contract (they'd have to assume all of it if he's released anyways) then I think Toronto would benifit from giving up a slightly above mid-range prospect or two for him.

Nolan - Tuesday, May 24 2005 @ 02:16 AM EDT (#117528) #

I offer to take him off their hands, and pay his entire salary, plus give them a promising young pitching prospect (ie League, Rosario), as long as they throw in Pena or Kearns.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, except that I would insist on Pena as I think he is going to be great. Plus, he is on the DL right now and Kearns is playing well, which would only make him easier to acquire (can a team trade someone who's on the DL?).

If we took Graves' salary, perhaps we could get both of them for Cat and Towers? Or maybe Lilly for both of them (Having only two good starts this season probably doesn't help his cause too much, though)? The Reds desperately need pitching, who knows?

Jim - Tuesday, May 24 2005 @ 07:31 AM EDT (#117530) #

Graves is finished and isn't worth a waiver claim at the league minimum.

dp - Tuesday, May 24 2005 @ 08:31 AM EDT (#117531) #

They brought him in last Wednesday in a non-save situation against the Mets- he hadn't worked in like 7 days, and gave up 4 runs, 2 home runs, and made an error on routine throw to first. Seemed out of whack being used in a non-save situation. I don't normally put much belief in those sorts of claims, but it seems to happen a lot. I agree the move is premature- if you're the Reds, why not let him try to get strightened out, rack up some more saves and bring his numbers back down, then deal him? Especially if you're replacing him with David Weathers instead of Wagner.

Dave Till - Tuesday, May 24 2005 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#117535) #

I wouldn't put Graves on the major league roster right now. The Jays' bullpen is doing just fine as it is - there's no need to try to fix something that isn't broken.

Of course, there would be no risk in signing him to an AAA contract, but he'll get a better offer than that from somebody.

Lugnut Fan - Tuesday, May 24 2005 @ 02:11 PM EDT (#117557) #

Two teams come to mind. The Cubs need a closer and I can see them going after him. Being in the same division as Cincinatti, this may be an interesting proposition for Graves as well.

The other team that comes to mind is San Francisco. They need a closer as well. I really don't see Atlanta touching him because they already have a closer that blows games in Kolb and I don't see Graves being any better of an option.

Terran - Tuesday, May 24 2005 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#117593) #

It sounds like the Mets are interested, but they're likely to wait until Graves becomes a free agent rather then deal with Cin.

Graves DFA'd By Reds | 22 comments | Create New Account

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