Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
A lunchtime treat for us, today, as the Jays and Rays face off before hopping onto planes and jetting out of town. No home team TV coverage, but you can tune in the Fan on the radio and let Jerry tell you all about it.

Josh Towers vs. Doug Waechter, first pitch at 12:37.

A couple of people asked why TSN was showing so many games this year in yesterday's game thread. I don't know that they're showing any more games than last year, but they're showing a lot of games early in the season because Rogers Sportsnet had most of the Raptors broadcasts and now has the NBA playoffs. Once the NBA season is over, I believe the majority of the games shift back to Sportsnet.

Oh, and those of you who've run group ticket accounts in the past should check your mailboxes -- I got a pleasant surprise in mine this morning.
Game 23: Blue Jays vs. Devil Rays - Getaway Day | 164 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#114037) #
It took a while, but I've found a working phone line in the press box. Here are your lineups:


Crawford, lf       Catalanotto, lf
Lugo, ss           Hudson, 2b
Huff, dh           Wells, cf
Lee, 1b            Koskie, 3b
Cantu, 2b          Hillenbrand, dh
Gomes, rf          Hinske, 1b
Sanchez, cf        Rios, rf
Johnson, c         Zaun, c
Green, 3b          Adams, ss
Waechter, p        Tower, o
Got to play it, might as well win it....
Craig S. - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#114038) #
The MLB.TV broadcast for the game is interesting. Looks like a home video feed, coupled with the Jays' radio broadcast. So the audio is excellent, but the camera work is a little crazy at times, and replay nonexistent.
westcoast dude - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#114039) #
Chacin is to Towers as day is to night.
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#114040) #
Three very well hit balls...
Three defensive screw-ups...
Three runs
Gitz - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#114041) #
That play that Travis Lee just made on the Wells pop-up was not nearly as easy as he made it look, for those of you with access to the MLB.tv feed. Catching pop-ups with your back turned to the ball is the hardest thing for an infielder to do, but Lee made it seem as easy as it is for most pitchers to, well, get Travis Lee out (his RBI double today notwithstanding).

Incidentally, Johnny Gomes looks like a player.
Jdog - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#114042) #
Is anyone else tired of seeing Towers start?
I am sure the guy is a great guy and its nice to cheer for the guy who doesn't have mlb stuff, but Im ready for him to leave. I'd much rather have someone with some potential(better stuff) to one day be more than a 5th starter in the role.
I just can't take it anymore. Here is to hoping one more bad start from Towers means the end of Towers.
mathesond - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#114043) #
Did it bring a smile to anyone else's face when Jerry said, "Back in the day"?
Maldoff - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#114044) #
Just listening to the game on the radio, and Sawkiw just said that he thinks that Aaron Hill will be "the shortstop of the near future" for the Jays. I thought that was interesting that he is already replacing Russ Adams.
Gerry - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#114045) #
What were the defensive screw-ups, only an error to Zaun shows up in the pbp.
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#114046) #
Towers continues to strike out hitters at a MUCH higher rate than usual.
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:15 PM EDT (#114047) #
the defensive screw-ups

They should have had Lugo twice. On his AB, Adams' throw pulled Hinske off the bag. I thought it should have been an error. Then on the Huff flyout, Lugo lost track of the ball and was around second and twenty feet to third when Wells caught it. But Wells didn't notice and flipped it back in to the shortstop. If he's thrown it straight to first, Lugo was a dead duck.

Make that four, as Towers forgets to come off the mound...

Through his first 23 IP this year, Towers has 20Ks and 1 BB.

Gitz - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#114048) #
Pretty generous scoring on that Lugo grounder. I thought for sure it was an error.
Gitz - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#114049) #
Updating Magpie's note: Towers has your basic 22:1 K/BB ratio. You could do worse for a fifth starter. Reminds me of Bret Saberhagen's 1994, when he had something like a 13:1 K/BB ratio in the middle of a rabid hitting era. (No, I'm not comparing Towers to Saberhagen.)
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#114051) #
Waechter was losing it last inning, and sounds even worse this inning. time for SHEA.
Ducey - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#114052) #
This would be a nice time for Rios' first tater of the year
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#114053) #
Like any pitcher with those kinds of ratios, Towers is always around the plate, so he's going to give up a lot of balls hit on the screws. If his fielders aren't sharp behind him, it's going to cause problems. Seems like he's settled in nicely.

Had Vernon tagged up on that flyball and gone to third, it could have been a different inning; quite possibly Hinske would have approached his at-bat differently with a runner on third and one out. That makes two mental errors for Wells today -- Kent would have called them E-10s.
Gitz - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#114054) #
I know this won't be the case, but I can't see Rios hitting a home run this year. He seems the epitome of the dreaded "warning-track power" syndrome. I was skeptical of Rios two years ago, and I remain skeptical.

Gitz - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#114055) #
Jordan, have you seen Joe Blanton yet? He's Josh Towers. Always around the plate, but with seemingly even worse stuff (his fastball tops out around 89 MPH). You watch them pitch, and you can't figure out how they aren't getting strafed all the time. As fifth-stater/innings eaters, though, those kinds of pitchers have value. I don't agree with the assessment above that the Jays need a new fifth starter.

They could use Carl Crawford, though . . .
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#114056) #
Well, I don't think Rios is going to hit many taters this year if he's content to be an opposite-field hitter. The home runs will come when either (a) he starts pulling the ball a little more or (b) he becomes strong enough to muscle the ball over the right-field wall. Till then, expect a lot of triples.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#114058) #
Gitz, I was wondering about Blanton -- his ERA and WHIP are great, but man, that strikeout rate is fearsome. What's he got, 7 punchouts in 25 innings? His minor-league K/IP and K/BB rates are pretty outstanding, so I've been assuming he'll come around. But "Josh Towers" is not a complimentary comparison in most languages.
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#114059) #
JT is quietly turning this into a QS...maybe even a VGS.

81pt, 5.0ip, 6h, 3er, 0bb, 5k
Dr. Zarco - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#114060) #
On the subject of Rios-all his triples are adding up for his slugging %. He's slugging .446. Not terrible. Not great for a corner outfielder, but it happens to be .002 better than one Aubrey Huff--though as expected, Huff has a healthy OBP advantage.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#114061) #
But yes, I've got no problem with Towers as 5th starter -- frankly, he's the textbook definition of the guy you want in that role (including salary).

Hey, here's a project for anyone interested in doing the legwork (Magpie, you still there?) -- rank the Blue Jays' best and worst 5th starters in franchise history. Obviously you'd only need to go back to the mid- to late-80s, when 5th starters became more common. But I'll bet you'll find Josh Towers has been one of the best the Jays have sent out there.
Gitz - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#114063) #
I wasn't comparing Towers's and Blanton's statistical profiles, just their pitching styles.

Blanton's minor league peripherals were outstanding -- until last year at AAA, where they dropped somewhat. Particularly worrisome were the decreased K rate and increased hit rate. (And Sacramento's home field is actually a pitcher's park, so you would have expected him to get better.) I was under the impression that Blanton threw harder, but he rarely, if ever, will crack 90. That's not critical, of course, but unless Blanton starts missing some bats, he's going to get raked. It's that simple.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#114064) #
I had seen Blanton's AAA numbers take a hit, but I had assumed that was the PCL effect -- if Sacramento's a pitcher's park, though, that's a different issue. Interesting.

This game's just scooting along, isn't it?
Rob - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#114065) #
rank the Blue Jays' best and worst 5th starters in franchise history

I think I'll take that project. Anything that brings back memories of Huck Flener can only be a good thing.

uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#114066) #

And with that quick inning, and the bottom of the order coming up, Towers will definitely come out for another.

After that 1st inning, that's a pleasant surprise.
Gitz - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#114067) #
Towers has pitched very well today, no question. He's aided, as all teams are, but the Rays hacktastic approach. But he deserves better, as Magpie has indicated, because his D let him down in that one bad inning.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#114068) #
Hitting Waechter has not been the problem for the Jays today. It seems inevitable that they'll break through and score.

And just as I type that, Eric Hinske makes me look smart.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#114069) #
About dang time. Those are the first RBI for Hinske in almost three weeks.

It was getting frustrating to see the Jays striking out only once and yet having so few hits to show for it.
Pistol - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:11 PM EDT (#114070) #
Hinske's first RBIs since the Oakland series on 4/12.

Last night I saw that Shea Hillenbrand is the active leader in BA in April. Sell high!
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#114071) #
But this is getting back to the lack of power on this team. When was the last time someone hit one over the fence? I'm having trouble remembering.
Paul S - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#114072) #
GOING GOING ZAUN!

and thanks to tonight being a light night on the schedule, today he isn't on my bench in favour of Inge!
HollywoodHartman - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#114073) #
I believe V-Dub went deep in one of the Baltimore games
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#114074) #
heh.

thanks, RBillie!
Stellers Jay - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#114075) #
Ask and you shall receive RBillie. Going Going Zaun!
Ryan C - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#114076) #
Ok who had the following for the end of April batting average pool:

Hillenbrand .400+, Zaun .300+, Rios .300+, Hinske ~.300, Wells .210-, Koskie .240- ?
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#114077) #
Going, going Zaun!

Why do managers insist on turning Zaun around? He's got more power from the right side of the plate.
BCMike - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#114078) #
R Billie, a couple minutes ago ;)
Christopher - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#114079) #
Keep it up R Billie. Keep it up.

:)

braden - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#114080) #
Going, going, ZAUN!
Jdog - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#114081) #
I believe that would be....Um GGZ ..this inning. You got a bad memory
NYJaysFan36 - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#114082) #
I knew Zaun was batting righty, so I didn't expect that type of
"In Play, Run Scoring Play" That was a pleasant surprise!
Rob - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#114083) #
When was the last time someone hit one over the fence? I'm having trouble remembering.

The right sentiment -- a definite lack of power on this team -- but you couldn't have picked a worse time to post that thought. :)

In other words, Going Going Zaun!

Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#114084) #
Tick... tick... BOOM!

That's Zaun's first HR hitting RH in at least three years.

HollywoodHartman - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#114085) #
Correction, Zaun just hit one. DAMN YOU YAHOO! AND YOUR SLOWNESS!
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#114086) #
Tough inning for Lugo.
Ryan C - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#114087) #
I love it when teams start with a RHP and then switch to a LHP when the Jays have the lead. It just makes the decision to put Reed in for Cat such an easy one.
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#114088) #
I really feel for Piniella.

This Rays team is going to kill him.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#114089) #
Ok then. When was the last time Vernon Wells had a 2 run double?
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#114090) #
Meh. It was worth a shot.
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#114091) #
Smart move by Gibby, even as well as JT was pitching - another long rest for the starter, this time he takes him out (after both Lilly and Gus got hammered after their long rests).
jimmylarsoni - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#114092) #
robertdudek - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 11:33 AM EST (#3845)
My counter-challenge is:

Shea Hillenbrand must post an OBP of .350 of better at the All-Star break in 250 PA or more.

If he should do so, I will purchase and wear a Shea Hillenbrand jersey for all second half games that I attend (as a paying customer)

Ave OBP
.398 .432

Go Shea Go! ;)

Looks like the Jays timely hitting is coming back. Just in time for the Yanks
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#114093) #
my bad.

Towers is still in.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#114094) #
Heh. I just finished a quick survey of Jays' 5th starters going back to 1987 -- and Josh Towers has never been a 5th starter for Toronto. His 8 starts tied him for 6th-most on the 2003 staff (with Tanyon Sturtze), and in 2004, his 21 starts actually tied him for third on the staff. Whatever his official designation in the rotation, Towers hasn't filled the 5th-starter role as a Jay.
HollywoodHartman - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#114095) #
From the stats it seems Towers has really calmed down since the first, but if we just give it all back I'll be Über pissed
Jdog - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#114096) #
I think Dudek needs to wear a shirt saying " I need more faith in JP" , wearing the shirt just aint much of a loss.
Ryan C - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#114097) #
Incredible Chulk in the game.
Named For Hank - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#114098) #
Jdog, I think you underestimate just how much Robert dislikes Shea Hillenbrand.

And I can't crow yet, we have a long, long way to go to get to the All-Star break.
Jdog - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#114099) #
If Wells fails to get a hit today , this isn't going to be the first time he is the only jay from the starting lineup to go hitless.
Craig B - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#114100) #
Josh Towers in 2005 - 27.1 innings, 1 walk, 23 strikeouts.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#114101) #
Shea Hillenbrand's OBP by month, 2002-05:

April: .365
May: .318
June: .326

The All-Star Break is a ways away yet. :-)
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#114102) #
Crawford hits it hard but an out is an out as far as the scoreboard is concerned.

What I'd like to see is the Jays at least mount a threat to put up more runs here in the 7th and 8th innings and relief pressure from the bullpen.

One of the frustrating things about last season was the Jays might have a big inning at some point in the game and seem to let up and lose the hunger to add more runs after chasing the starter.
Craig B - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#114103) #
Hillenbrand is currently hitting .402. This is wonderful.
Wildrose - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#114104) #
Hillenbrand will eventually cool down, he has 1 BB all season, still he's a line drive hitting machine. I don't think he's a championship type DH, but he's certainly exceeded expectations and is quite usefull to have around.
HollywoodHartman - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#114105) #
Even if he does cool off lets enjoy a month of a man hitting .400.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#114106) #
Looking at Towers, is he a potential trade chip if any of Rosario, Gaudin, Miller, or League are ready mid-season?

I guess it would be pretty hard to trade the guy if he keeps pitching this way but with Banks and Marcum, two more control guys, ready some time next year maybe the Jays can afford to deal a fifth starter like Towers. Not to mention Rosario, Gaudin, and Miller who might be ready some time this year and League, Perkins, and McGowan as wild card power arms.

I think if you can turn him into a young power reliever or undervalued bat you think about doing it.
Rob - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#114107) #
Sawkiw just said Ken Harvey was "all-world" last year. Wow.
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#114108) #
Honestly, where would we be right now if we hadn't picked up Shea this season, but had gone with, as many preferred, some risky pickup player like Crozier?

IMO, Shea's already earned at least half his paycheck just in this month. I shudder to think of where we'd be without him so far this year.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#114109) #
My guess is that Towers would command very little trade interest on the market. His career ERA+ is just 91, and while he can handcuff teams like he did today, he can also get rocketed around the ballpark just as easily. He's been an unexpected and affordable stalwart for the Jays, but I think he's still regarded as rotation filler around the league.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#114110) #
Nice job by Chulk today. Another run or two would be nice.
Dr. Zarco - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#114111) #
I really like that Gibbons left Chulk in to face the two lefties instead of automatically putting Schoeneweis in. It shows confidence, and Chulk rewarded his manager by striking out both guys. Well done Vinnie!
Jdog - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#114112) #
My thoughts exactly. The type of player you could get in return for Towers would be the type of players available on waivers throughout the year
King Ryan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#114113) #
I wonder what his DIPS ERA is after todays game. Six more K's and still only the one walk all season. Five homers, though.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#114114) #
Add a double for Rios. I think this guy can hit a little bit.
Craig B - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#114115) #
Is Shea a championship quality DH?

The DHes for the last 20 AL pennant winners

David Ortiz
Nick Johnson
Brad Fullmer
David Justice (35 yrs old)
Shane Spencer
Chili Davis (39 yrs old)
Darryl Strawberry (36 yrs old)
David Justice
Ruben Sierra
Eddie Murray (39 yrs old)
Paul Molitor (36 yrs old)
Dave Winfield (40 yrs old)
Chili Davis
Jose Canseco
Dave Parker (38 yrs old)
Don Baylor (39 yrs old)
Roy Smalley
Don Baylor
Hal McRae (39 yrs old)
Darrell Evans (37 yrs old)

Hillenbrand's expected performance is as good as or better than the production that half of these guys gave. Some were a good deal better. DH tends to be a "leftover" position - the David Ortiz or Shea Hillenbrand, who DHes despite being under 30, isn't that common now.

If Hillenbrand had been a full-time DH last year, he'd have ranked 8th among AL designated hitters in EQA and runs above replacement. Just fair, I'd say. Of course, he's producing well above that level right now...
Wildrose - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#114116) #
Chulk does well in a high leverage situation! Last year Chulk would throw a 94-95 MPH fastball and a hard slider, this year he seems to be working in more pitches. I note last inning he threw a curve and change-up amongst his offerings , something he virtually never did last season.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#114117) #
It's only been 10+ innings, of course, but Vinnie Chulk has been superb so far this season. The biggest difference has been command: in his debut last year, he walked 27 and struck out 44 in 56 IP. This year, he's walked 2 and struck out 9 in 11 2/3 IP. His fastball really ramped up when he was converted to relief in Syracuse, turning him into a viable prospect. If he can maintain this command, the Jays will have a reliable late-inning guy out there making the league minimum.
Gerry - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#114118) #
I recall that Towers fastball was high eighties last year, that generally qualifies you as a control pitcher. I don't know about today but in his last start Towers fastball was around 91. Is he still consider a control pitcher, is he still a #5? I think I would move him up from there, to a #4, whatever that means.

Also don't forget the free agent pitcher pool this coming winter is very thin so tradeable pitchers might generate more interest.

If you had a slightly better offer for Bush than for Towers would you do it? I don't see them as being hugely different right now.

Marcum is another similar pitcher, under 90 mph fastball, walks hardly anyone, mixes his pitches well. Banks operates around 91-92, can touch 93, so has a little more velocity than Towers or Bush.
Ryan C - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#114119) #
Hey a stolen base!
Nigel - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#114120) #
I really liked Gibbons' bullpen management today. He got Towers out of the game at the first hint of trouble. His pitchcount was around 100 and I thought it was an excellent time to pull him. I also liked that he didn't feel the need to automatically go to SS with Huff and Lee coming up. My one criticism of Gibbons' bullpen management has been that he has been quidk to pull a reliever who was clearly pitching well in favour of a L/L or R/R matchup.

On Towers, I think you need to keep his trade value in perspective. He's thrown nearly 400 innings (or the rough equivalent of two full seasons) at the major league level with a career ERA over 5 and has given up approx. 1.7 HR/9. I think as a league minimum salary 5th starter he's provided the Jays with good value but he not realistically someone that you would give up a valuable player or prospect for. Now, if he keeps his strikeout rate up the way its started this year, who knows? :)
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#114121) #
Maybe it's the D-Rays' pitching, maybe it's the home cooking. But since Mike Barnett was fired and Jeff Blair connected the words "demotion" and "trade" with his name, Alex Rios is 7-for-13 with a double and two triples.
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#114122) #
Remember, Chulk about this good for this first 20-odd IP last year as well, and then he ran out of gas, and lost his command.

Thankfully, with Gibbons in charge, I don't think we'll see that kind of 'pen mismanagement again this year.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#114123) #
Hey I'm on a roll today. I asked for a couple more runs and here they are.
Named For Hank - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#114124) #
Jordan, don't forget that Rios was also featured in Photo of the Day during that stretch.
Gerry - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#114125) #
Josh Towers career ERA+ 91
Jaret Wright career ERA+ 91
Nigel - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#114126) #
I like the move to bring Speier into the game as well. Not a high leverage situation, but not garbage/mopup duty either.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#114127) #
Remember, Chulk about this good for this first 20-odd IP last year as well, and then he ran out of gas, and lost his command.

True enough -- his ERAs by month went 1.59, 5.14, 9.00 and 4.91 from June through September last season. However, even in his best '04 month (June), his BB/K rate was 8/12 in 17 innings -- his April '05 peripherals are already better than anything he did last year. He might just have adjusted and turned it up a notch.

jimmylarsoni - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#114128) #
I believe the new name for RBillie should be "the prophet".

Anyways, one question on which I would love input. I have never been impressed with Speirs how is it possible that he could be named closer over anyone in the pen?
Terran - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#114129) #
Kind of off topic, but is it rare that 23 games into the season we have yet to have an extra inning game? Or have we? The closest I can remember us coming was our 4-3 win against Boston when we blew the save in the top of the 9th but Hudson got a game winning double to win it in the bottom of the 9th.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#114130) #
don't forget that Rios was also featured in Photo of the Day during that stretch.

Aaron, we're putting you and R Billie in charge of our Supernatural Committee.

Josh Towers career ERA+ 91
Jaret Wright career ERA+ 91

Take that, George.

uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#114131) #
wait a sec....two baserunners doesn't turn this into a save opp, does it?
Jonny German - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#114132) #
It's well documented that Hillenbrand is a fast starter. I'd like to think that he slows down becuase of the wear & tear of the season, but that this year he'll be able to keep it going longer since he's DHing in about 50% of his games. Before this season he'd only DHed in 3 games in his career.
Craig S. - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#114133) #
So was that Zaun's first homer off a lefty since he hit one as a Royal against Alan Embree, who was then with the Chisox? Or am I missing one?
Craig B - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#114134) #
Batista to earn the save. I don't see the point, I have to say. Why worry now? Speier hasn't pitched great, true, but I say give him another shot to get Nick Green (or whatever warm body they pull off the bench).
Craig S. - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#114135) #
Ugylone - yes, it does, as the tying run is in the on-deck circle.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#114136) #
It is a save opportunity now. The tying run is on deck.
Craig S. - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#114137) #
The save rule is number 10.20 in the MLB rules:

Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions: (1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and (2) He is not the winning pitcher; and (3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions: (a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or (b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.
King Ryan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#114138) #
wait a sec....two baserunners doesn't turn this into a save opp, does it?

Not that it matters, but I think it does since the tying run is on-deck.

Finish him off, Miggy!

Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#114139) #
I can only assume that Gibbons has really lost confidence in Speier -- he's not giving him a chance to work out of any difficulties. He got two outs and an infield single in addition to the double, which doesn't strike me as yank-worthy. I wonder if Speier's hurt.
Craig B - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#114140) #
I take it the crowd is booing because they disagree with the umpire's call?
Craig S. - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#114141) #
Hinske was there first, without a doubt. Bad, bad call.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#114142) #
A double and two infield hits and now the tying run comes to the plate in Carl Crawford. Eesh.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#114143) #
I think they're booing because they want to leave and the Rays keep extending the inning. That's two infield singles now.
Rob - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#114144) #
"A poor call by Ron Kulpa."
- Jerry Howarth
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#114145) #
I don't think it has much to do with Speier - Gibbons will put Miggy in any time it's a save opp.

That's why I was questioning the rules there - because i knew he wouldn't have brought him in otherwise.
Elijah - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#114146) #
I don't think it's a matter of lost confidence. It seems to be that Gibbons seems to be following the way most managers use their closers these days. Save situation? Put him in. I don't necessarily agree with it with two outs. If one out or none out, maybe.

Bad call. But Jays win anyway!
Gerry - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#114147) #
Jerry Howarth confirmed that Kulpa made a bad call.
Jordan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#114148) #
Nothing like a sweep at home to chase away the blues.

That Halladay-Unit matchup in the Bronx should be amazing.
King Ryan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#114149) #

"In play, run-scoring play"

What the hell is that??!

Oh well, it doesn't matter. CC pops out. Woohoo!

R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#114150) #
Pops him up and gets out of it.

A little more excitement than one likes with a 7-3 lead but they held it together despite the bad call.
Terran - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#114151) #
" I don't know that they're showing any more games than last year"

They are (TSN that is) showing more games then last year (the star wrote an article on this before the season began). Part of the reason why is they needed to fill some of the void left by the NHL strike.
King Ryan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#114152) #
I don't think it has much to do with Speier - Gibbons will put Miggy in any time it's a save opp. I don't think so. Gibbons has shown that he's much more astute than that.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#114153) #
The Jays just need to take one of the next two games against the Yankees to finish a tough April over .500. That five game losing streak at home unfortunately ate up all of their quick start but averaging 7 runs a game against Tampa pitching will raise the team's spirits. If Koskie and Rios surge then so much the better.
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#114154) #
I think that IS astute.
yammi - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#114155) #
Nice to see Rios climb into 2nd on the team for BA (now .321).

Considering what the other outfielders are doing (Johnson is .279, F-Cat is .270, & Wells is .207), I disagree with the many posts in recent days to ship Rios down to Syracuse.

This kid's gonna be just fine.
Four Seamer - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#114156) #
I don't think it has much to do with Speier - Gibbons will put Miggy in any time it's a save opp. I don't think so. Gibbons has shown that he's much more astute than that.

I agree it's not optimum bullpen management. But look at the bright side, all you Bauxites who are hoping to trade Miggy later this year - and I'm not advocating it, just pointing it out - the gaudier his save totals look, the more likely some less than astute general manager might be tempted to give up more than he's worth to get him.

Chuck - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#114157) #
the more likely some less than astute general manager might be tempted to give up more than he's worth to get him.

Everyone says that but do saves really carry any cachet any more? Certainly there are some questionable front offices out there, but are there GM's really that dense to go ga-ga over a 30-save Batista or a .330-hitting Hillenbrand?

Terran - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#114158) #
"I agree it's not optimum bullpen management. But look at the bright side, all you Bauxites who are hoping to trade Miggy later this year - and I'm not advocating it, just pointing it out - the gaudier his save totals look, the more likely some less than astute general manager might be tempted to give up more than he's worth to get him."

Does it really work like that? Do General Managers really follow the same process a fantasy baseball manager might? It's not like a GM wouldn't have tons of actual information on the guy first, and be well aware if some of his starts were cheap 1 out gimmes.
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#114159) #
Have any of you guys given any thought to the idea that Miggy might actually be a good closer?
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#114160) #
Saving half our wins, posting a sub-3.00era.....not walking anyone.....giving up some hits, but zero extra base hits.....

....perhaps he's just a good closer?

Wildrose - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#114161) #
The sample size is still extremely small, but here are Chulk's 2005 L/R splits:

Vs. Righties: .458 OPS
Vs. Lefties:.730 OPS

Last year .905/.618 L/R OPS.

He's still very tough on righties, and much improved against left-handed hitters. Hopefully he can continue to improve.

Speier looks like a guy pitching with a sore elbow, decreased velocity and poor downwards sink.
Craig B - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#114162) #
I couldn't agree more. Batista might well be a terrific closer. We don't know yet, but there's a decent chance...
Petey Baseball - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#114163) #
Good win and a great sweep by the Jays heading into an exciting weekend in the Bronx.

However I fear for Justin Speier in the sense that he has not pitched well. Although JP is more likely to be more patient with an older pitcher like Speier, if he continues to throw so poorly I can see the Jays either making a move or releasing him to have some more productivity. Maybe I'm being too harsh on Speier, but I really think that he is on the bubble right now.
BCMike - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#114164) #
Has Batista even had a perfect inning yet?
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#114165) #

2 of them.
Petey Baseball - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#114166) #
Wow Wildrose you have my thoughts exactly.
jsut - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#114167) #

Have any of you guys given any thought to the idea that Miggy might actually be a good closer?

He seems to be great about 50% of the time, and being one pitch from losing the game the other 50%. So far he's only blown one save, but he frequently scares me ;)

uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#114170) #
Yep, Just checked....while Miggy has given up 13 hits this year, not one of them has been for extra bases.

Most all of them have been grounders, and many of them infield hits - and more than a few I can recall were on makable plays.
Named For Hank - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#114171) #
Wilner on Jays Talk... poor guy. Caller asks why they made Batista the closer when they already had Billy Koch.

WILNER: Are you kidding?
CALLER: No, I like Billy K-- (sound Wilner hanging up on him)
Rob - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#114172) #
Someone just called in to the postgame show, saying Billy Koch should have been the closer over Miguel Batista.

I love Wilner's reactions to these callers.
King Ryan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#114173) #
Even if Batista has a good season at closer...let's say he "saves half our wins" (whatever the hell that even means,) all year long. I would still like to trade him. That's just me though.
Craig B - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#114174) #
Although JP is more likely to be more patient with an older pitcher like Speier, if he continues to throw so poorly I can see the Jays either making a move or releasing him to have some more productivity.

I doubt it. Speier's been an extremely effective reliever for the last five years in a row. I can't imagine why you'd want to get rid of a guy like that, even if he were to struggle for a while.

I don't think he's been all that ineffective, anyway. He's been consistently in and around the strike zone, and his problems have come from three pitches that he's left up enough to give up homers. That's unlucky as much as unskillful, and while he can't keep making those mistakes, there's no real reason to believe he will.

One interesting thing is that all of Speier's problems so far have been courtesy of right-handed hitters. That's unusual for him, very unusual in fact. I actually haven't noticed anything in particular, but has anyone seen Speier's slider and how it's breaking? If his slider's not an effective pitch, that would explain why righties are finding him easy to hit.

Wildrose - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#114175) #
Have any of you guys given any thought to the idea that Miggy might actually be a good closer?

Well he may be, but at this rate I may have to take up smoking, just like Earl Weaver did when Don Stanhouse was on the mound, ( and I don't think it'll be tobacco either) (check that forgot about the impending government change).

R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#114176) #
I just think what Miguel is really missing outside of consistent command is a pitch that he can miss bats with. He has a slider and a splitter but apparently he throws hard stuff about 95% of the time. Eventhough it's moving, major league hitters are going to put that in play if you can't change speeds. And with the number of balls that get put in play off Batista it's only natural that he will give up his fair share of hits.

Now this isn't a huge problem as long as Batista also walks very few and gives up few extra base hits. So far that is the case but he's not a guy I feel terribly comfortable with having in the game. I defy anyone to tell me that save he managed against Boston did not get their heart racing. Or that they would have felt good about him trying to save Roy Halladay's 2-1 effort against Texas.

Will GMs buy high on players like Batista and Hillenbrand? I think the bigger question is whether JP would be willing to sell high. He seems to have a habit of falling in love and out of love with players very quickly and a near .400 April will buy Shea a lot of good will even if he scuffles in the second half. With Batista actually going out and (GASP!) managing to actually hold a lead for one inning the majority of the time, he might also decide Batista is the guy.

But if Hillenbrand is hitting .330 and Batista has 20-25 saves in July then I actually think the chances are good that one or more teams out there will be interested in either player. Teams that are loading up for a championship run will give up good prospects. The supply of players who teams are willing to move and actually have attractive stats isn't that great. Generally speaking, guys who have a lot of saves beside their name are regarded as money pitchers. And if a competing team is having pen issues they might be willing to give something up. And I expect JP would ask for a lot.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#114178) #
Speier's problems right now are a lot more than just leaving the occasional pitch up. His velocity is significantly down. He's pitching below Josh Towers velocity right now with as much of a penchant to give up the long ball on bad pitches (and he's thrown a lot of those).

The past two years he could actually overpower batters with his fastball/slider combo but that's not the case at this point this year. And even when he had that velocity he could not get by without well located pitches. I didn't see his velocity today so maybe he will improve. My concern is he's hiding an injury.
Petey Baseball - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#114179) #
Craig B:

You are quite right when you say Speier has been pretty good in four years in the league. However if he continues to struggle, do you honestly think JP will do nothing? I think he's shown a little unwillingness to be patient with some people if the team struggles, so I am just a little interested about what will happen if Speier continues to scuffle. I don't think I agree with you when you say he has not struggled, but thats debateable as well.
uglyone - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#114180) #
[i]"let's say he "saves half our wins" (whatever the hell that even means)"[/i]

Well, see, what I meant by "saves half our wins" is that he's "saved half our wins". We have 12 wins, he has 6 saves.

on another note.....

Opponents are posting a .626 OPS vs. Miggy so far.
Petey Baseball - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#114181) #
Craig you mentioned his slider being ineffective and his stuggles against righties. I point out that if he cannot get righties out, then what good is he to us? I agreee with R Billie: Speier does not look good this year, whether it has to with health or whatever, I just don't see JP being very patient with him.
Wildrose - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#114182) #
The team owes Speier $4.15 million, he'll be given every opportunity to right himself. He may well indeed be going through a tired arm period, I assume if he had a serious injury with his guaranteed contract he'd fess up. I'm optimistic he'll work out of this slump.
westcoast dude - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#114183) #
Josh Towers, today you showed me. Now, if you can just finish your warmup tosses before the first inning...
Petey Baseball - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#114184) #
I really do hope Speier snaps out of it because he's really a solid reliever in his role, and a solid member of the team.
Wildrose - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#114185) #
I think Professor Moffat should do a study on the possible decreased productivity in the Canadian work place during afternoon weekday Blue Jay games. I have the day off, 140 comments and counting, how do you guys get any work done? Obviously I'm in the wrong business.
King Ryan - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#114186) #
I knew exactly what you meant, ugly one. I just don't know how that's relevant in arguing the quality of a pitcher.
VBF - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#114189) #
I take it the crowd is booing because they disagree with the umpire's call?

I was at the game today and the crowd was indeed booing the call. Since the majority of the crowd was school children they weren't very knowledgeable about what was going on and hence the booing for the sake of booing and failure to stand in the ninth with 2 strikes and 2 outs.

Surprisingly, Miguel Batista got a warm (but not too warm) ovation as he came out of the pen, to the tune of "Gangstas Paradise".

Jdog - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#114190) #
Fact.. Batista makes us all nervous.

However most closers do, I bet Yankees fans are a little nervous when Rivera is out there facing the Red Sox in the 9th with a one run lead. Any closer in the game going into the 9th with a one run lead against Boston, New York or Baltimore would make me nervous.

Keith Foulke has been shaky this year.

As long as Batista is getting the job done lets give him the benefit of the doubt.
Chuck - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#114191) #
Surprisingly, Miguel Batista got a warm (but not too warm) ovation as he came out of the pen, to the tune of "Gangstas Paradise".

To bad he's an artista and not a comedian. Weird Al's Amish Paradise is good for a chuckle.

Ryan C - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 06:02 PM EDT (#114192) #
do you honestly think JP will do nothing? I think he's shown a little unwillingness to be patient with some people if the team struggles

Well you're right about JP willingness to make changes this year, but I think Speier is in a different situation. He was pretty effective last year, and the only one of JP's big four reliever signings that worked out last year (Ligtenberg, Adams, and DLS being the other three). That and his proven track record should buy him some leeway I would think.

Besides which I dont see any way you could possibly justify cutting loose Speier when Matt Whiteside is still a member of your bullpen.

HollywoodHartman - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#114193) #
Wierd Al is a great performer, I've seen him live twice. Great Shows both times. You should see the video for Amish Paradise.

But back to Batista. I was at the game on Tuesday, I had to move to sit a few seats away from anybody just so I dont kill anybody because of him. (He ended up getting a perfect inning)
BCMike - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#114194) #
Speaking of Whiteside, I hope that after this road trip(and the NY,BAL bats) the Jays dump the extra arm and add a bat to the bench.
Dave Till - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 06:39 PM EDT (#114196) #
Something fascinating: I'm watching TSN right now, and they seem to making a point of not referring to the Rogers Centre by its new name. Twice now, they've just called it "the dome". Is this a coincidence, or is this due to instructions from management?

I love media wars, I do. :-)
Four Seamer - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#114197) #
"I agree it's not optimum bullpen management. But look at the bright side, all you Bauxites who are hoping to trade Miggy later this year - and I'm not advocating it, just pointing it out - the gaudier his save totals look, the more likely some less than astute general manager might be tempted to give up more than he's worth to get him."

Does it really work like that? Do General Managers really follow the same process a fantasy baseball manager might? It's not like a GM wouldn't have tons of actual information on the guy first, and be well aware if some of his starts were cheap 1 out gimmes.

I guess I should come back to defend my observation, however lukewarm my original investment in it was. Let's just put it this way: I don't think a few cheapie saves are going to hurt his trade value any with, oh I don't know, the Kenny Williamses of this world...

Arms Longfellow - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 07:09 PM EDT (#114198) #
I think if Batista fails as closer later on (not making a prediction damn it, just saying IF) they should try and make a deal for Octavio Dotel. You know how Ricciardi loves trading with Beane, and you know that Oakland is probably dying to make Huston Street their closer.
Stellers Jay - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 07:10 PM EDT (#114199) #
I posted this earlier in the Bullpen project thread. I don't want to take anything away from the mood of the team right now as they were fully deserving of their first sweep of the year and look to continue it tomorrow in what should be a hell of a game with Doc vs the Big Unit. But people have brought up the topic of Whiteside, so I'm going to add my 2 cents.

It's time to pick up on my why's Matt Whiteside on this team crusade that has been on hiatus for a week. He's been here for 9 games and has pitched once and got bombed. I just plain don't understand the use of the "25th man" roster spot on this team right now. Surely, there is a bat (possibly Crozier) who could be of more use to Gibbons than Whiteside is. He's not going to see use in a close game nor should he. And to expect him to come in and eat innings in a blowout (it's the only reason I can think that makes any sense as to why he is on the team) is not optimal usage of him as he has been used primarily as a short reliever throughout his career. If anybody's got the answer, I'd love to hear it. Please don't say he's roster filler because there are much better choices in Syracuse to keep a seat warm in the Toronto Bullpen than Whiteside. Spike Lundberg has yet to surrender a run in 13+ innings of work and is at least cabable of working extended inning outings. Maybe I should change the name of my crusade to free Spike Lundberg!
Stellers Jay - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#114202) #
I don't really understand all of the Batista bashing today. I think a lot of it stems from the negative opinion of the move in the preseason and the fear of how he might pitch. In reality, he's thrown quite well (only blowing one save) and at least what was expected of him if not more.

W L S ERA IP H R ER

Player A 1 3 3 7.20 10.0 13 8 8
Player B 1 1 3 3.18 5.2 8 6 2
Player C 1 0 6 2.70 10.0 13 5 3

At this point in the season Batista matches up favorably to 2 of the best in the business. Obviously, there will be some ups and downs. But, right now there's no reason to be jumping all over the guy.

A (Foulke. B (Rivera). C (Batista)

*Stats coming into today.
Stellers Jay - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 07:35 PM EDT (#114203) #
Sorry about the table alignment not familiar with HTML formatting for tables.
westcoast dude - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 07:42 PM EDT (#114204) #
Yep, he's roster filler. JP will plug in a young gun when the time is right. I can think of at least 3 who could come in and put up bagels.
R Billie - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#114206) #
I think Whiteside is a place holder until someone else asserts themselves into a roster spot but I completely agree. If you're going to use the spot on a guy you know is a placeholder then why not a place holder who can be of more use to the manager? A pinch runner or defensive specialist or a bat that can come off the bench.

Whiteside from his only outing reminds me of a poor man's version of Jeff Tam as a Blue Jay. If your seventh pitcher isn't someone reliable or who can eat innings in a blowout, maybe a younger guy like Arnold or Miller who can learn on the job then that roster spot is really just going to waste.
Rob - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#114208) #
Stellers Jay, you can use the (pre) and (/pre) tags around the text, but with angled brackets (underneath K and L on the keyboard) instead of those round ones. Preview the spacing to make sure it all lines up. Also, bold tags on the header line makes it all look rather pretty:
         W  L  S   ERA    IP   H  R ER
Foulke   1  3  3  7.20  10.0  13  8  8
Rivera   1  1  3  3.18   5.2   8  6  2
Batista  1  0  6  2.70  10.0  13  5  3
You're right, Batista does compare favourably to Foulke and Rivera at this point in the season.
Craig B - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#114209) #
You are quite right when you say Speier has been pretty good in four years in the league.

Speier's been an excellent reliever for five years.

However if he continues to struggle, do you honestly think JP will do nothing?

Yes, pretty much. Clearly there is a limit... if Speier goes through the All-Star Break with an ERA over 7, something might happen, sure. If Speier continues to be as ineffective as he was in the first half of last season, I expect him to do exactly nothing.

I don't think I agree with you when you say he has not struggled, but thats debateable as well.

Speier's struggles, such as they are, have been connected to three mistake pitches. If he'd given up a home run and a double on those instead of three homers, no one would be talking about him, plain and simple. It's making a mountain out of eight innings' worth of molehill. This isn't like someone who can't find the strike zone, or is getting tagged all over the place, like Adam Peterson last year.

Craig you mentioned his slider being ineffective and his stuggles against righties.

I said I didn't know and hadn't noticed, but was asking if he was having problems with the slider, because that's the only reason I could think of (other than bad luck) why he'd be having trouble specifically with righthanders.

I point out that if he cannot get righties out, then what good is he to us?

It's 21 batters. Twenty-one freakin' batters. You're going to condemn a guy after facing twenty-one batters? It would be foolish to make decisions based on those kinds of results (3 HR in 21 PA), because blips like that happen to everyone. In his Cy Young season in '03, Doc gave up 3 HR in less than 21 PA. (Actually, it was 3 in 16 batters, against the Royals on April 25).

Now on the other hand, R Billie mentions that his velocity is down (though the Towers comp is a bad one to judge from - Towers has significantly increased velocity over last year). If that's the case, and that's the reason for his problems, I'm actually more relieved than anything, as Speier is known for his inconsistent gas. He'll probably get it back soon.

If not, then there may indeed be a problem, I grant that.

Stellers Jay - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 09:59 PM EDT (#114211) #
Thanks for the HTML crash course in charting for dummies Rob. Much appreciated.
Four Seamer - Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#114215) #
Speier is known for his inconsistent gas.

Sounds like a few friends of mine from university...

GeoffAtMac - Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:21 AM EDT (#114227) #
Just reading through some of the comments on moves Jays should make etc. In my own estimation, I think Speier should be kept on the Jays' roster, and not let go etc. He was quite effective last year once he settled down -- they should use him as they do now. Let him pitch in low-pressure situations until he gets his act together.

I was wondering too about how people felt about this no-power Rios problem. I for one am a big Rios booster (he is on my Yahoo fantasy team) and think he will be really solid as soon as he hits that next dinger. But in terms of "power outage", I was thinking it might be worth trading for some struggling options such as:

Austin Kearns -- I know he is quite fragile in the NL, but maybe if he was moved he could be motivated to stay healthy? (Not that motviation is linked to health necessarily, I meant that more figuratively speaking). He seems quite tradable since the Reds have a very workable Willy Mo / Griffey / Dunn combo, with more farmhands likely available.

Not sure what we could really ship the other way though. We'd probably have to send Rios, and that would really jettison a very possible future allstar. Cincinnati always needs pitching -- that's why they never (rarely I guess) make it anywhere post-season-wise -- but I am not sure how much we could offer in that department either.

Mike Cameron -- Yeah, I know, average-wise not so good. But he is very good defensively, he does hit some dingers, and steals bases. Plus, NY is looking to unload him as Floyd / Beltran / Diaz are playing very well right now and Cameron seems to have struggled in NY. I say if the asking price were small enough, and the Mets were willing to take on some salary it might be worth it.

But this is all fantasy-type speak, because I am not sure it would be practical because we already have an abundance of outfielders -- the two of which we won't be trading (Wells, hopefully Rios) are the ones with significant trade value.

You know what (implied question mark) -- I just wrote all of this and completely forgot about Gabe. We should probably just bring him up, and open up a spot for him in LF, leaving him, Rios and Wells to get the job done, with some help from F-Cat. (I know we all love Sparky's hustle, but I see him as more of a bench / NL-type of guy.
uglyone - Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#114231) #
how about Mike Sweeney?
Game 23: Blue Jays vs. Devil Rays - Getaway Day | 164 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.