The Blue Jays got a wake-up call from the Yanks last night, so they'll give themselves over to the arm of Morpheus tonight. Gustavo baffled the New Yorkers last September, and you can bet the Yankees have been reviewing their DVDs of that game. We'll see if it helps them tonight. The Jays would just like a starter other than Doc to make it past the third inning. The Decline Phase of Mike Mussina's Career starts for the visitors. Should be a good one.
Funny line about Mussina. Not sure if it's true, yet, but maybe. I keep waiting for him to have that 24-win breakout season, but I fear that time has come and gone without ever happening.
When Moose signed with the Yanks, I thought of him as a future Hall of Famer. I think he's now borderline at best. If you look at his "Most Similar By Age" progression at BBRef:
Lon Warneke (985)
Rick Rhoden (977)
Schoolboy Rowe (961)
Roy Oswalt (967)
Jack McDowell (950)
Tim Hudson (945)
Ramon Martinez (940)
Bret Saberhagen (924)
Jack Morris (933)
Jack Morris (929)
Dwight Gooden (941)
Dwight Gooden (940)
Dwight Gooden (932)
... it is not overwhelming. And not a Hall of Famer to be found on the list, young Master Hudson's future TBD, of course.
When Moose signed with the Yanks, I thought of him as a future Hall of Famer. I think he's now borderline at best. If you look at his "Most Similar By Age" progression at BBRef:
Lon Warneke (985)
Rick Rhoden (977)
Schoolboy Rowe (961)
Roy Oswalt (967)
Jack McDowell (950)
Tim Hudson (945)
Ramon Martinez (940)
Bret Saberhagen (924)
Jack Morris (933)
Jack Morris (929)
Dwight Gooden (941)
Dwight Gooden (940)
Dwight Gooden (932)
... it is not overwhelming. And not a Hall of Famer to be found on the list, young Master Hudson's future TBD, of course.
Moose will need another 3 or 4 twenty win seasons to even get a sniff of the Hall of Fame. (Something he's never managed to do). He's got 211 career wins at age 35. Even if he hit 300, which I don't think there's any chance of happening, he wouldn't be automatic.
The lineups Kevin Pataky received (and posted in the Game Report thread) were thankfully premature.
For the visitors:
6 Jeter
8 Williams
9 Sheffield
7 Matsui
5 A Rodriguez
DH Giambi
2 Posada
3 Martinez
4 Sanchez
And for the hometown nine:
7 Catalanotto
2 Zaun
DH Hillenbrand
5 Koskie
8 Wells
3 Hinske
9 Rios
4 Hudson
6 McDonald
For the visitors:
6 Jeter
8 Williams
9 Sheffield
7 Matsui
5 A Rodriguez
DH Giambi
2 Posada
3 Martinez
4 Sanchez
And for the hometown nine:
7 Catalanotto
2 Zaun
DH Hillenbrand
5 Koskie
8 Wells
3 Hinske
9 Rios
4 Hudson
6 McDonald
You're right, he won't hit 300, but if he did, in fact he WOULD be automatic. No player who has ever won 300 games is not in the Hall. And unlike 500 homers, that milestone is getting HARDER to reach. So it'd be a no-brainer.
IF he goes 11-11 for the next eight years and hangs around to win one start the ninth year, he's in.
IF he goes 11-11 for the next eight years and hangs around to win one start the ninth year, he's in.
Not to open up this can of worms again, but why is McDonald starting over Adams against a righthander??
If EYYYY! CHACHI! Manages to pitch well against the Yankees and their powerful right handed lineup and win I'm officially sold on him having a Rookie of the Year year.
"You're right, he won't hit 300, but if he did, in fact he WOULD be automatic."
You're right Mick, if he hits 300 he deserves to go in, but Gus "the Polar Bear" has a better chance of winning the AL Cy Young this year than Moose has of reaching 300 wins. It's not going to happen. At this stage of his career to Mussina, Halladay's got a better case to go into the HOF, at least he's won a CY Young.
You're right Mick, if he hits 300 he deserves to go in, but Gus "the Polar Bear" has a better chance of winning the AL Cy Young this year than Moose has of reaching 300 wins. It's not going to happen. At this stage of his career to Mussina, Halladay's got a better case to go into the HOF, at least he's won a CY Young.
"He's got 211 career wins at age 35. Even if he hit 300, which I don't think there's any chance of happening, he wouldn't be automatic."
If he pitched 5 more years after this year that'd only be 15 wins a year to get to 300. That doesn't seem that far away to me, especially on a team that should always be above average scoring runs.
In his 4 years with the Yanks he's averaged 16 wins.
I suppose it depends on how long he pitches.
Is last year a blip, or a sign of things to come? We'll probably know a lot more in 6 months.
If he pitched 5 more years after this year that'd only be 15 wins a year to get to 300. That doesn't seem that far away to me, especially on a team that should always be above average scoring runs.
In his 4 years with the Yanks he's averaged 16 wins.
I suppose it depends on how long he pitches.
Is last year a blip, or a sign of things to come? We'll probably know a lot more in 6 months.
Tom Glavine's got 262 career wins and 2 Cy Young Awards and there's been debates as to the merit of him getting into the HOF. Glavine's got a much better case than Mussina and he probably deserves to be in.
The funny thing about Mick's list... there's hardly a man on there who didn't have roughly Hall of Fame caliber numbers at the point where Mussina is his comparable. Warneke, Morris, Saberhagen, McDowell, Gooden, and Rowe were all at one point or another looking like HOFers.
Mussina has certainly pitched well enough in his career to be a Hall of Famer. Mussina's problem Hall-wise is that his profile (because of who he is - rather studious, consistent, and no-nonsense) is much lower than his achievements. In this, he reminds me of someone I recently found myself writing about - Jimmy Key. Mussina is the type of player that everyone thinks the press loves, but who they never do (possibly because he's smarter than most of them).
It's very difficult to win 250 games and not make the Hall of Fame. It would be unheard of to win 250, with as good a percentage as Mussina is sure to have, and not get in. 250 wins is three seasons of 13 wins - I think he's got those in him. Regardless, he deserves it.
Mussina has certainly pitched well enough in his career to be a Hall of Famer. Mussina's problem Hall-wise is that his profile (because of who he is - rather studious, consistent, and no-nonsense) is much lower than his achievements. In this, he reminds me of someone I recently found myself writing about - Jimmy Key. Mussina is the type of player that everyone thinks the press loves, but who they never do (possibly because he's smarter than most of them).
It's very difficult to win 250 games and not make the Hall of Fame. It would be unheard of to win 250, with as good a percentage as Mussina is sure to have, and not get in. 250 wins is three seasons of 13 wins - I think he's got those in him. Regardless, he deserves it.
Jack Morris is probably the most similar to Moose in their case to get into the HOF. Morris has 254 careers wins, no Cy Youngs, and he is having difficulty getting inducted. I think Moose will have a hard time getting in even if he gets another 50 wins.
Tom Glavine's got 262 career wins and 2 Cy Young Awards and there's been debates as to the merit of him getting into the HOF.
Sure, and Tracy Ringolsby thinks Wade Boggs doesn't deserve to go in. There are all kinds of crazy debates when it comes to the Hall of Fame - a lot of writers put on their Idiot Hat when it comes to the Hall.
Ultimately, the case against Mussina for the Hall of Fame is that his profile was too low, and he never had a 20-win season. He did have several outstanding seasons, but he often didn't start enough to get to 20 wins. If a guy can be too consistent, Mussina is it. If he'd taken 20 wins out of his five worst seasons, and put them into his five best seasons, he'd have two or three Cys and probably be considered an automatic Hall of Famer.
As for someone not thinking Tom Glavine is a Hall of Famer, I would actually have to think they've never looked at a list of Hall of Famers. He had a 10-year run from 1991-2000 that I'd say is one of the ten best decades by any lefthander, ever.
The ten guys with the most similar stats to Glavine through age 38, are seven Hall members and three guys (Morris, Kaat, and John) who will go in almost as soon as the Veterans Committee gets their hands on them.
You're right, Stellers Jay, in saying Mussina's going to have a hard time in the BBWAA elections. The comparison to Morris is apt, although Mussina is twice the pitcher Morris was.
How accurate is the sportsnet radar gun? It had Chacin working as high as 94 in the 1st inning. I didn't think he threw quite that hard.
Very impressive start by the rookie. Pounding the strike zone early and showing them that he can throw any pitch for a strike.
Very impressive start by the rookie. Pounding the strike zone early and showing them that he can throw any pitch for a strike.
I never know how much to trust these gun readings at the park or on TV, but I've seen Chacin consistently reported at 90-91 over his starts this year. 94 seems excessive though!
Oh man, Chacin has a wicked change-up going tonight.
If you dive for second base and your feet are in centrefield, are you still within the limits of the "baseline"?
Wow, that was actually a pretty good move by A-Rod, pretending to run back to first and then turn and rolled toward second. He went slightly off the line though.
I would think that anything out side of the dirt cutout (which AROD clearly was) would be considered outside the baseline.
Typical A-Rod play. Reminds me of "giving Arroyo my karate" Has to bend the rules all the time. No wonder the Rangers call him the Water Cooler.
YES Network has Hudson as batting .265 with a .261 OBP. Tell me I'm not losing my mind and that this is impossible?
His sacrifice hits + flies outnumber his walks + HBP.
Hudson has yet to walk this year - though in that at bat, he really should have swung at the 3-1 pitch.
Hudson has yet to walk this year - though in that at bat, he really should have swung at the 3-1 pitch.
Gv27 noted that McDonald is 3 for 5 career against Mussina. I guess we got the answer as to why McDonald is in the lineup and not Adams.
Just to tease gv27 a little... Talking about Chacin's best start of the year, he said that he threw 8 innings and scattered 2 hits. Is it really scattering when there are only two of them?
YES Network has Hudson as batting .265 with a .261 OBP. Tell me I'm not losing my mind and that this is impossible?
What should be impossible is Pat Tabler saying "nothing wrong with what Hudson's being doing" in discussing the recent move of Zaun to the 2-hole.
No doubt. "Scattered" is a term that's used when a pitcher gives up fewer runs than would be expected given the number of hits allowed. E.G. Nelson allowed 1 run in 7 innings, scattering 9 hits along the way.
I don't mind Tabler, but I wonder when we'll start seeing some of the other guys. From what I recall, we were supposed to hear four different colour guys this year, and so far it's just been Tabler. Candiotti usually calls the west games, when will we start to see Muliniks and Fletcher?
Not being able to see or hear the play....being out of range of everything, exactly what happened on the DP?
I wonder how long it will be before Koskie gets the "Well's" treatment (i.e. move him out of the 4-spot)?
Ahh, the 1-2-3 double play. The most heartreaking play in baseball.
Have you decided where you are going to purchase your Hillenbrand jersey, Mr. Dudek? :)
Have you decided where you are going to purchase your Hillenbrand jersey, Mr. Dudek? :)
Ouch. Nothing worse than hitting a ball right back to the pitcher for a double play when the bases are loaded.
Hitting Hillenbrand there was like an intentional walk, and it paid off with the DP.
Good analysis by Tabler there on Koskie. In his first at-bat Koskie struck out on junk pitches out of the zone, so this time Mussina gets strike one on a fastball down the middle.
Good analysis by Tabler there on Koskie. In his first at-bat Koskie struck out on junk pitches out of the zone, so this time Mussina gets strike one on a fastball down the middle.
Can someone let me know when the child actor is gone so I can unmute it? Thanks.
Could I get an update on the score of the game and anything significant I should know (i.e. Chacin's 11 Ks through 4 IP or something ;-))
Score is now 4-2. Torre is on the mound talking to Mussina as the Jays are getting to him in the 5th.
Jays have squandered multiple opportunities by hitting into DPs...
Jays have squandered multiple opportunities by hitting into DPs...
Wells needs to come through with runners on the corners and 2 outs.
I don't see how that ump could call Shea out at second. Shea's body was already almost past the bag by the time the ball got there.
And now it's a one-run game!
That reminds me of a Josh Phelps single.
Hopefully "The Dude" can become Dude-like again...
That reminds me of a Josh Phelps single.
Hopefully "The Dude" can become Dude-like again...
Although Wells got the hit to drive in a run it was not good hitting. Last time up Wells pulled an outside pitch to Jeter. Mussina tried to do the same thing this time and Wells again pulled the ball, except this time he pulled it between SS and third. Better to be lucky than good.
I'm watching the game with the sound off right now. It's not because of anything Jamie Campbell and Pat Tabler are saying: it's because I'm superstitious.
When the Yankees went ahead 4-0, I turned the sound off because I didn't want to listen to the sound of Yankees touching home plate (which, to me, is a sickening THUD of doom). The instant I did this, the Jays got the side out and began to score runs. Now, I'll have to leave the sound off for the rest of the game.
It could be worse. When I was living in Waterloo, I knew someone who didn't watch a single game of the 1992 season. He liked baseball, and he liked the Jays, but he was a curse - whenever he watched, they did badly. So he took one for the team and stopped watching.
I assume that the child actor got into the broadcast booth as part of a Rogers cross-promotional deal. The deal, presumably (please correct me if I'm wrong): the movie publicists pay Rogers enough bucks, and they'll have somebody from the movie throw out the first pitch *and* get a half inning to promote the movie from the broadcast booth. I'd object to this sort of thing, but I suspect that this is one of the ways that Rogers is going to raise the extra bucks that will be spent on the team.
When the Yankees went ahead 4-0, I turned the sound off because I didn't want to listen to the sound of Yankees touching home plate (which, to me, is a sickening THUD of doom). The instant I did this, the Jays got the side out and began to score runs. Now, I'll have to leave the sound off for the rest of the game.
It could be worse. When I was living in Waterloo, I knew someone who didn't watch a single game of the 1992 season. He liked baseball, and he liked the Jays, but he was a curse - whenever he watched, they did badly. So he took one for the team and stopped watching.
I assume that the child actor got into the broadcast booth as part of a Rogers cross-promotional deal. The deal, presumably (please correct me if I'm wrong): the movie publicists pay Rogers enough bucks, and they'll have somebody from the movie throw out the first pitch *and* get a half inning to promote the movie from the broadcast booth. I'd object to this sort of thing, but I suspect that this is one of the ways that Rogers is going to raise the extra bucks that will be spent on the team.
Well gv27 made a mistake; he doesn't make many of them, so it's a rarity. The mistake was to say that the runners will be moving on the full count with 2 out (though there were runners on 2nd and 3rd only).
Awesome K from Chacin, The kid has nerves of steel.
And I love the reaction. You want to support a team that cares, and you just know Zahn cared about that strikeout.
And I love the reaction. You want to support a team that cares, and you just know Zahn cared about that strikeout.
Rios does what he does best: Hits a single the other way. O-Dog follows with his first walk of the season! At least his OBP will match his BA now.
With McDonald up, the Jays down by one, and 0 outs, I don't mind a bunt here. Hopefully Frankie Cat can hit one to the outfield and tie the game.
With McDonald up, the Jays down by one, and 0 outs, I don't mind a bunt here. Hopefully Frankie Cat can hit one to the outfield and tie the game.
The perfect sac bunt by Mac is another reason its nice to have him in this game. He's solid on D and getting on base a lot too, so I really don't see why he shouldn't be used a fair bit. If he cools off offensively I suspect Adams will get a bit more time, but it really never hurts to break a rookie in slowly anyway.
unclejim,
Zaun has quickly vaulted to Favorite Jay status in my mind. To me, nobody works harder or cares more. He knows what its like to be a long-term backup. He and Reed Johnson embody what the team is about.
Zaun has quickly vaulted to Favorite Jay status in my mind. To me, nobody works harder or cares more. He knows what its like to be a long-term backup. He and Reed Johnson embody what the team is about.
18 LOB. Koskie leading the inverse charge with 7. Could be 21 unless Shea continues to tear up the Yanks.
He looked like a long-term backup in that at-bat.
Looks like a dead thread now, but going way out on a limb here .... I know I can hear all you, don't do it Lefty, don't do it. You'll be sorry.
Thats ok, as thin skinned as I am.
Vinnie Chulk looked excellent tonight as he has since the season began. I will not be suprised, that in event of emergency he will be the guy most capable of the highest leverage situations, before years end.
Thats ok, as thin skinned as I am.
Vinnie Chulk looked excellent tonight as he has since the season began. I will not be suprised, that in event of emergency he will be the guy most capable of the highest leverage situations, before years end.
So just so everyone has this straight, there's a new rule in MLB, it's now illegal to steal 2nd on Jorge Posada.
Gary Sheffield going for a stroll accross home plate = OK!
Russ Adams following through on a swing = Interference!
Russ Adams following through on a swing = Interference!
Posada's a genius. Double pump and cry interference, or just chuck the ball off the batter's head, and cry interference. Give that man a gold glove.
Apparently its only interference when Toronto is batting. The Yankees are allowed to jump up and down and throw tantrums in front of Zaun while he is trying to throw.
Looks like Posada has figured out how to work the umpires. I wonder if he will get a reputation for that with the umpires.
Why did they let Chacin go 130 pitches? Isn't that a little dangerous this early in the season? I am guessing it's because of the extra day off Monday but still- its not like he was dominating out there.
gv27, the crowd boos Jeter at least in part for his jackass behavior towards Huckaby after the Opening Day '03 incident. Huckaby tried to apologize, Jeter stared past him as if he wasn't there and ignored him until Huckaby left.
That's why I boo him, anyways.
That's why I boo him, anyways.
Nevermind, it was an error on sportsline's game update.
Chacin threw 109 pitches, not 130.
Great decision by Gibbons to bring in Batista here. Even though it's not a "save situation," this is still a crucial situation.
Great decision by Gibbons to bring in Batista here. Even though it's not a "save situation," this is still a crucial situation.
The Jays deserve to lose this one. Bases loaded twice and scoring no runs? Pathetic.
Koskie needs to be moved out of the 4th spot. He's so lost!
If the Jays were the Red Sox they'd have a chance against Mariano... but they're not...
Koskie needs to be moved out of the 4th spot. He's so lost!
If the Jays were the Red Sox they'd have a chance against Mariano... but they're not...
groove, Chacin only threw 109. On a different note, I'm not the biggest fan of never letting Cat face a lefty so early in the game. Gibbons had to know the leadoff spot will get up again, and most likely against QuanGoMO, all righties. Cat's the guy you'd rather have up then. I guess I just don't like that it's so automatic to pull him.
Well on the bright side, you couldnt really ask for a better lineup in the bottom of the ninth to face Rivera: Hillenbrand, Koskie, Wells.
Nice play by Tino, but had it dropped in, Posada would've pointed out that Hillenbrand interfered with him when he slammed his bat, and Shea would've been sent back to the plate...
The most popular refrain in baseball...
"Single past a diving Jeter!"
"Single past a diving Jeter!"
Thank god Rivera had his wits about him on that line drive at his head. That could have been awful.
Do you see what happens, Mariano? Do you see what happens when you.... nevermind...
That's a bad loss right there. The blowout was far easier to take.
28 LOB? That is inexcusable...
28 LOB? That is inexcusable...
First pitch to Rios was outside
Joe Torre runs out to tell Rivera the scouting report
Next three pitches are inside corner
1. Good scouting
2. Rios, whose best hitting is to right, will have to adjust to being pitched inside
Joe Torre runs out to tell Rivera the scouting report
Next three pitches are inside corner
1. Good scouting
2. Rios, whose best hitting is to right, will have to adjust to being pitched inside
How many times does Rios have to ground out before the Jays realize he isn't ready yet? Why is he playing right field and not Gabe Gross?
On the one hand, I want to say "Once again, the Jays were in it until the end!"
On the other hand, I can't help but think "Once again, the Jays clawed back to within a run, got runners on in the ninth, but came up short."
By the way, the Jays' LOB was only 13, not 28. Not a very good stat, anyways...
On the other hand, I can't help but think "Once again, the Jays clawed back to within a run, got runners on in the ninth, but came up short."
By the way, the Jays' LOB was only 13, not 28. Not a very good stat, anyways...
28 LOB? That is inexcusable...
You're right. However, the Jays only left 13 on base, so I don't see how it's relevant.
The most popular refrain in baseball...
"Single past a diving Jeter!"
Even though that really did look like an unplayable ball, I was hoping gv27 would give a shout-out to the BTF crowd and say just that.
It was actually 27 lob. I know your frustration, but I have a hard time accepting that last nights blow-out is an easier result to take nor do I think all those men on base was a bad thing. Better sign than no men base.
I think what he was counting was how many men were lob per plate appearance for the team. USA today has it at twentyseven.
And I agree its not the greatest stat.
And I agree its not the greatest stat.
That's a bad loss right there. The blowout was far easier to take.
28 LOB? That is inexcusable...
28 LOB in a 9 inning game? That would be a record, if it was not impossible. The Jays left 13 men on base but you have to give some credit to the pitchers and also have to allow for luck. First the Yankees were lucky when the ball bounced back hard off the backstop to save a run. Then the Yankees were lucky when Hillenbrand hit the ball very hard, but right at Jeter.
The Jays pitched Rios well in the ninth. Mussina pitched well to Koskie in the third to get the DP with the bases loaded. Jeter made a very good play on Rios in the seventh.
Rather than say its inexcusable, you should provide examples of bad hitting. The other team deserves some credit sometimes too. Specifically Zaun's popup with the bases loaded and one out in the sixth on the first pitch was not good. I can't think of other bad at-bats with RISP.
I always have hated that method of counting left on base. 28 left on in a 9 inning game just isn't possible (bases left loaded each inning only gives you 27). Summing the amount on base whenever somebody makes an out just doesn't seem like a useful statistic to me. 13 left on still is terrible, but I agree that it's much better than leaving nobody on because nobody reached base.
The team LOB was 13. That's how many total were left on base after each inning. The Jays batters, however, totalled 27 LOB. That's how many total were left on after each out, basically.
Hope to clear that up. The Jays team OBP in the game was .390, so obviously it's disappointing that they only had three runs to show for it.
Hope to clear that up. The Jays team OBP in the game was .390, so obviously it's disappointing that they only had three runs to show for it.
Right. 27 LOB would mean they left the bases loaded after each inning.
Sometimes it may seem like they did that, but they didn't.
Sometimes it may seem like they did that, but they didn't.
Admin is exactly right. Well, Jeter is overrated and has said some other things I disagree with which contribute towards ihs boo-ability. However, his behaviour towards Huckaby was terrible, and that's exactly the reason I also boo him. While most fans probably aren't aware of that, he isn't a "classy Yankee" at all.
Other than that and the rather painful guest in the booth, good broadcast.
Other than that and the rather painful guest in the booth, good broadcast.
Ok Im not familiar with this stat method. So if there are men on 1st and 2nd and a guy advances them on a pop-fly or bunt or something, then does that count as 2 men LOB? Cause that doesnt seem right to me.
Putting that child actor in the booth was not a good move at all. He's not even Canadian, he was just promoting a DVD of some movie. What was more disturbing is gv27 said he recognized him from Stepmom ("Be there for the joy. Be there for the tears. Be there for each other.") and he called it "a good movie."
I knew once that kid showed up, Chacin would lose the no-hitter.
Yes, it was only the fourth inning. But still, the no-hitter.
I knew once that kid showed up, Chacin would lose the no-hitter.
Yes, it was only the fourth inning. But still, the no-hitter.
I want to second Thomas's notion. That was a good broadcast.
If I can be little bit contraversial. It really bugs me when posters nit pick about the smallest of mistakes by broadcasters. I'm not talking about the most stupid comments especially when they are repeated again and again. I consider that a public service.
Kid Campbell and Tabby are a new team. A new double play combo. Ones a rook. They're working it out.
If anyone wants to call a game over the phone to me in Vancouver I'll pick up the three plus hour tab.
I remember when gv was a rookie in Vancouver. Talented, big and clumsy class guy who pulled it together.
If I can be little bit contraversial. It really bugs me when posters nit pick about the smallest of mistakes by broadcasters. I'm not talking about the most stupid comments especially when they are repeated again and again. I consider that a public service.
Kid Campbell and Tabby are a new team. A new double play combo. Ones a rook. They're working it out.
If anyone wants to call a game over the phone to me in Vancouver I'll pick up the three plus hour tab.
I remember when gv was a rookie in Vancouver. Talented, big and clumsy class guy who pulled it together.
Double pump and cry interference
Really? I only saw one replay, so maybe folks can clear this up - but I thought Adams' bat on the follow through clearly came around and got Posada's glove. I was surprised at the time that gv27 and Tabler didn't say so. Was there another replay?
(Just getting home now, and missed a number of key moments. New Trailer Park Boys...)
Well, it wasn't as bad as last night! Heh, it's always frustrating to lose like that, although I will give credit to the Jays for crawling back. It was an exciting game.
Tyler, myself and two of Tyler's friends had a mini cheer club gathering in 518. We were lacking both cowbell and drum, not to mention people, but we did an OK job at riling up our section. Hopefully tomorrow will kick of the official CC season with a bang.
Tyler, myself and two of Tyler's friends had a mini cheer club gathering in 518. We were lacking both cowbell and drum, not to mention people, but we did an OK job at riling up our section. Hopefully tomorrow will kick of the official CC season with a bang.
Thomas, what was Jeter's behaviour towards Huckaby? All I remember is Huckaby crushing Jeter's shoulder and Jeter not returning Huckaby's phone call. Is there more to it than this?
Just got home from the game. I wanna ask about Posada's interference, is he playing an angle? I'll read the thread above, it's probably answered.
That Joe Torre is a real tricky dick at killing a rally. Always popping out, endless conferences, pitching changes, was it the 6th inning? Damn.
Just got home from the game. I wanna ask about Posada's interference, is he playing an angle? I'll read the thread above, it's probably answered.
That Joe Torre is a real tricky dick at killing a rally. Always popping out, endless conferences, pitching changes, was it the 6th inning? Damn.
Aw, crud. I was logged in as admin to fix something behind the scenes and forgot to log out and back in as NFH before I posted that. Sorry, gents.
KT, Huckaby tried to apologize in person and Jeter stared past him like he wasn't there, ignored him until Huckaby left. Nasty, nasty behavior.
KT, Huckaby tried to apologize in person and Jeter stared past him like he wasn't there, ignored him until Huckaby left. Nasty, nasty behavior.
The correct call was made on the Offensive Interference. Adams bat clearly touched Posada. It didn't matter whether he double-clutched or not, if a batter or umpire touches a catcher when a runner is going the play will continue, if the runner is out the play stands, if the runner is safe he must go back to first.
I didn't really see last nights play, but if there was no contact than it is a judgment call. Whereas tonights play there was clear contact with the catcher so it's an automatic call. Also if there is no contact, the umpire must take into consideration whether there was intent or if it was just a natural follow through. Again I didn't see last nights, but keep in mind that it happens in a split second and you don't call interference on that type of play unless you're 100% sure there was intent.
I didn't really see last nights play, but if there was no contact than it is a judgment call. Whereas tonights play there was clear contact with the catcher so it's an automatic call. Also if there is no contact, the umpire must take into consideration whether there was intent or if it was just a natural follow through. Again I didn't see last nights, but keep in mind that it happens in a split second and you don't call interference on that type of play unless you're 100% sure there was intent.
"Single past a diving Jeter!"
I believe the joke goes: what do you call a single to Derek Jeter's left? Single up the middle.
btw, since we're talking about umpires, I'd like to give cudos to tonights first base umpire, Ed Hickox. Ed was one of my instructors at umpire school this winter, and was incredibly nice. Ed lost his job in the labour dispute but instead of taking legal action like most of the umpires, he went back to umpire school and started from the beginning. This is his first year back in the bigs after working his way back up.
Nice bit of information, thanks Zao, you oughta stick around. Nice story about Ed Hickox as well. Good for him for sticking it out in what was undoubtably an unfair dispute.
Yeah man, I'm always sticking around :) I just don't post a whole lot unless I have something interesting to add. Plus the TV and computer are in different rooms so I don't read the game reports until later.
I only saw one replay, so maybe folks can clear this up - but I thought Adams' bat on the follow through clearly came around and got Posada's glove.
I formed the exact same impression (that's why Posada double-pumped, actually) and Zao handled the rest beautifully.
Zao, if you're able, I'd love to ask you some questions about umpire school and your experiences. cburley@hardballtimes.com is my e-mail...
Lefty,
I'm sure you're talking about me. What I posted wasn't criticism. It was just something that I noticed that some other viewers might not have.
Gv27 reads these threads and from what I know of him, he is a perfectionist. That is a very very good thing because it means that he's going to get better and better at his job. So, in his quest to get better, why shouldn't I assume that pointing out some of the (rare) errors he makes is helping him?
I'm sure you're talking about me. What I posted wasn't criticism. It was just something that I noticed that some other viewers might not have.
Gv27 reads these threads and from what I know of him, he is a perfectionist. That is a very very good thing because it means that he's going to get better and better at his job. So, in his quest to get better, why shouldn't I assume that pointing out some of the (rare) errors he makes is helping him?
Yeah, basically from what I understand Huck walked into the Yankees clubhouse before the third game of the set (difficult thing to do, especially for a career minor leaguer) and walked up to Jeter, apologised and explained how it was an accident and that he hoped Jeter would recover. Jeter refused to say anything to him or acknowledge his existence.
Thanks for the information, Zao. I did not notice that Adams made contact with Posada. It's interesting to me that intent is irrelevant with contact, but not without. Clearly Adams was just following through with his swing. It's odd to me that if his bat hadn't hit Posada (but still distracted him,) it would not be interference.
"I believe the joke goes: what do you call a single to Derek Jeter's left? Single up the middle."
A single to any SS's left is a single up the middle......
A single to any SS's left is a single up the middle......
Sorry about the confusion regarding the LOB.
I was going with the figure on MLB.com (which says 28 for whatever reason instead of 27 and is approved by MLB and the commissioner's office). I went to bed right after I posted, but should have clarified it.
I realize there's a lot of grey area with that stat, but I like the fact that it takes into account a batter not advancing any runners in a bases-loaded one out (or no out) situation.
By comparison, the Yankees had 11 of such runners LOB.
The Blue Jay missed opportunities that stick out in my mind are the 3rd inning ending by double play with the bases loaded, Hinske flying out in the 5th with two runners on when they had Mussina on the ropes, Zaun's pop-out in the 6th w one out, Hinske and Rios not getting Wells in in the 7th after his double, and of course Rios in the 9th.
I was going with the figure on MLB.com (which says 28 for whatever reason instead of 27 and is approved by MLB and the commissioner's office). I went to bed right after I posted, but should have clarified it.
I realize there's a lot of grey area with that stat, but I like the fact that it takes into account a batter not advancing any runners in a bases-loaded one out (or no out) situation.
By comparison, the Yankees had 11 of such runners LOB.
The Blue Jay missed opportunities that stick out in my mind are the 3rd inning ending by double play with the bases loaded, Hinske flying out in the 5th with two runners on when they had Mussina on the ropes, Zaun's pop-out in the 6th w one out, Hinske and Rios not getting Wells in in the 7th after his double, and of course Rios in the 9th.
The trouble with adding each individual player's LOB to come up with a team total, is that it is awfully misleading.
If there is a man on first and you hit a double sending him to third, you've had a pretty good at-bat. You don't need the grief of having 1 added to your personal tally of men LOB.
Games like last night's are frustrating. More often than not, however, games with that many baserunners are going to be won. The poor hitting with men in RISP is more the byproduct of random probabilities than a sign of anything more profound, like lack of character, poor intensity, absence of grit, etc.
Accept that sometimes you roll snake eyes and box cars disproportionately and then move on.
If there is a man on first and you hit a double sending him to third, you've had a pretty good at-bat. You don't need the grief of having 1 added to your personal tally of men LOB.
Games like last night's are frustrating. More often than not, however, games with that many baserunners are going to be won. The poor hitting with men in RISP is more the byproduct of random probabilities than a sign of anything more profound, like lack of character, poor intensity, absence of grit, etc.
Accept that sometimes you roll snake eyes and box cars disproportionately and then move on.
It's "What do you call a slow roller to Derek Jeter's left? A base hit up the middle!"
Chuck,
I'm not sure if LOB are assigned in that case (the double moving the runner to 3rd). I'd be interested to know though.
Yeah I guess that's the best way to chalk it up. It's harder to think rationally when its the Yankees and the game is more than within reach multiple times...
It's probably not the best idea to watch baseball with a hockey stick in your hands. hahaha
I'm not sure if LOB are assigned in that case (the double moving the runner to 3rd). I'd be interested to know though.
Yeah I guess that's the best way to chalk it up. It's harder to think rationally when its the Yankees and the game is more than within reach multiple times...
It's probably not the best idea to watch baseball with a hockey stick in your hands. hahaha
I was under the impression that individual LOB only refers to runners on the base paths when you get credited with an out. So sacrifices do not count but a grounder to first base side that advances a runner does. Team LOB is the amount left after each inning is over.
I'll look at Koskie from last night. ESPN has 27 total individual LOB. ESPN credits Koskie with 6 LOB
At bat 1: K, two runners on - LOB 2
At bat 2: DP, three runners on - LOB 3
At bat 3: ground out, two runners on - LOB 2
At bat 4: popout, no runners on - LOB 0
At bat 5: flyout, no runners on - LOB 0
MLB gives Koskie 7 LOB. I guess ESPN credits him with 2 LOB for at bat#2 because at the end of his at bat there were two runners left. This is wrong, it should obviously be 3. I think he should actually be charged with 6 because of the two outs he generated. That is what the individual total would be if there were two consecutive strikeouts instead.
I'm not entirely sure what happens when someone reaches on an error. In this case I would guess that they do not get charged with LOB because an out was not credited, even though there is an AB given.
I'll look at Koskie from last night. ESPN has 27 total individual LOB. ESPN credits Koskie with 6 LOB
At bat 1: K, two runners on - LOB 2
At bat 2: DP, three runners on - LOB 3
At bat 3: ground out, two runners on - LOB 2
At bat 4: popout, no runners on - LOB 0
At bat 5: flyout, no runners on - LOB 0
MLB gives Koskie 7 LOB. I guess ESPN credits him with 2 LOB for at bat#2 because at the end of his at bat there were two runners left. This is wrong, it should obviously be 3. I think he should actually be charged with 6 because of the two outs he generated. That is what the individual total would be if there were two consecutive strikeouts instead.
I'm not entirely sure what happens when someone reaches on an error. In this case I would guess that they do not get charged with LOB because an out was not credited, even though there is an AB given.
Robert,
Thats fair ball. But if we look back on the previous threads the rot I refer to is starting to pop ip.
All I was saying is its early days and I hope the Box community gives him a chance.
I didn't really have your comment in mind when I went on the rant.
Thanks for coming back on it.
Thats fair ball. But if we look back on the previous threads the rot I refer to is starting to pop ip.
All I was saying is its early days and I hope the Box community gives him a chance.
I didn't really have your comment in mind when I went on the rant.
Thanks for coming back on it.