Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Hall Watch 2004-The Outfielders-Bernie Williams

Hall Watch 2004-The Outfielders-Bernie Williams

Fantasy baseball, like our BBFL, has its moments. One of mine was in 1991. My arch-rival Howard lost an outfielder, who was not producing, to the DL at just the right time, and snapped up Phil Plantier. "Howard got the Second Coming of JC", I complained to my secretary the next morning. A couple of weeks later, I lost a similar non-producing outfielder to the DL. The next morning, I arrived with a wide grin on my face. "Wazzup?" asked my secretary. "Howard might have got the Second Coming of JC, but I got Bernie Williams", came the reply. "Who's he?". "The Third Coming".

Phil Plantier's Hall of Fame train was derailed in about 1995, but Bernie, well, he was just getting rolling.

Bernie Williams was signed at age 17 out of Puerto Rico by the Yankees. Bernie made stops in the Gulf Coast League, Prince William, Fort Lauderdale, Oneonta, Albany during a 5 year minor league career. He hit for a fair average, with good plate discipline and a little power. In 1990, at age 21, he went .281/.409/.414 with 39 stolen bases for double A Albany. He was a fine leadoff hitter/centerfielder in the making. In 1991 and 1992, he spent half of each year in the majors and half in triple A Columbus. During the 1991-94 period, he hit .275 with good plate discipline and medium range power. He took a step forward in all spheres in 1995 at age 26, with a fine .307/.392/.487 line, and then reached his peak during the Yankees' great run from 1996-2000, and continuing on through 2002.

Bernie's last 2 seasons have been uninspired, with 2004's .262/.360/.435 seeming to be the new normal for Bernie. He won Gold Gloves from 1997 to 2000, but he was in truth not one of the top 3 defensive centerfielders during his prime. As he has aged, his range has fallen off sharply. He has been a first rate post-season performer, posting a fine .280/.378/.490 line in almost a full season's work.

Here's Bernie's chart, through age 35 (2003). His performance last year changes little about the argument:

Player    G      AB     H     HR    W     BA     OBP    SLUG    OPS+     
Edmonds   1445   5090   1496  302   734   .294   .384   .544    138      
Bernie    1656   6403   1950  241   898   .305   .390   .492    131
Lynn      1537   5589   1632  241   716   .292   .371   .496    135
Doby      1494   5235   1489  257   861   .284   .388   .494    138
Smith     1748   6338   1814  280   796   .286   .365   .490    137

Should Bernie Williams go into the Hall of Fame? Will he? Yes, he should (narrowly). Among the centerfielders, he fits neatly in the Doby/Smith/Lynn group. His distinguishing feature is his contributions to a winning ballclub, including his post-season performance. He was a key member of a great Yankee team, at least as valuable as Jeter, in my opinion, and perhaps more so. If things break right, Jeter, Williams and Rivera will go into the Hall of Fame together. Earle Combs is in the Hall of Fame, as a less than key contributor to the '27 Yankees. Williams' case is much more compelling, and I think that he will go.

This completes the Hall Watch 2004 series. I did not get to the pitchers, but it was that kind of year, anyways. We will catch up to them next year.

Posted by Mike Green on Friday, March 18 2005 @ 08:00 AM EST.

Hall Watch 2004-The Outfielders-Bernie Williams | 8 comments | Create New Account

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Cristian - Friday, March 18 2005 @ 08:40 AM EST (#106575) #

So if Bernie Williams was the third coming of JC was the Yankees dynasty the apocalypse?

Anders - Friday, March 18 2005 @ 11:46 AM EST (#106600) #

I personally dont think Bernie Williams is a HOF player. He was always a very good offensive centre fielder, and despite the gold gloves, he was slightly above league average as a cf. He had a lot of good seasons, but very few great ones. To me, he's borderline at best.

That being said, he's going to get in because he was a part of the Yankee dynasty, but whatever. There are certainly worse people in the hall of fame (although as an argument I dont think that ones particularly relavent.)At least Jeter and Rivera are the only other ones that will and might make it in.

Mick Doherty - Friday, March 18 2005 @ 12:38 PM EST (#106607) #

At least Jeter and Rivera are the only other ones that will and might make it in.

Pish-posh. Other Yankees from the late'90s/early aughts run with a chance to make it into the Hall of Fame:

- Roger Clemens (mortal lock)
- Wade Boggs (already in)
- Mike Mussina (211-119 so far)
- Andy Pettitte (155-82 so far)
- David Wells (212-136 so far)
- Jorge Posada (see Mike Green Hall Watch on him)
- David Cone (194-126 career)

Not to mention guys who haven't won rings (yet): - Hideki Matsui (will have to consider int'l career too)
- Gary Sheffield
- Kevin Brown (207-137 so far)
- Alex Rodriguez (mortal lock)
- Jason Giambi

Of course, I don't believe they'll all get in. Of course not. But off the top of my head, even, that's *12* more Yankees in addition to Jeter, Rivera and Williams, who are at least going to get consideration.

Mike Green - Friday, March 18 2005 @ 12:39 PM EST (#106608) #

Off the top of my head, I've got six centerfielders who were clearly better than Bernie: Cobb, Speaker, Mantle, Mays, DiMaggio and Griffey Jr. Two others were probably better: Duke Snider and Billy Hamilton.

I noticed that Snider should really have been on my comp list for Edmonds. If Edmonds has 3 more good, but not great seasons, he'll end up with comparable but slightly lesser offensive stats than the Duke, but he's a much better defender than the Duke was.

Mick Doherty - Friday, March 18 2005 @ 12:52 PM EST (#106612) #

Mike, in my forthcoming NYY preview, I am struggling with whether or not Bernie is the #3 CF in franchise history (and I still haven't figured out how to rank the first two in order). According to Neyer's book, for most of the nearly five years he spent in the Bronx, Ricky Henderson played CF. Right now, the draft has the rankings this way:

1. DiMaggio or Mantle
2. Mantle or DiMaggio
3. Williams or Henderson
4. Henderson or Williams
5. Earle Combs or Bobby Murcer

It's been a truly great position over the years.

Mike Green - Friday, March 18 2005 @ 01:08 PM EST (#106615) #

Here is Rickey's career record. According to BR, he was a centerfielder in 1985-1986 and was leftfielder/DH other seasons; that's what I remember, but these days I trust my memory less and less. I certainly think of him as a leftfielder.

DiMaggio vs. Mantle is loaded with controversy, but as far as I'm concerned, it's an easy call. Mantle. Even interpolating 3 good years for him in 43-45, DiMag ends up with the same career length as Mantle and substantially lesser offensive numbers. DiMag was a better fielder, but not that much better. It's really the same case as Mays vs. Mantle at their peaks, except Joe was not quite the fielder that Mays was.

Mick Doherty - Friday, March 18 2005 @ 01:41 PM EST (#106618) #

Oh, I know the stat case. But my family's from New York, and dad grew up watching Joe D. at The Stadium, so I have to think about whether or not I would be allowed back in the family if I went with my namesake (for whom I was not named, incidentally.)

Mike Green - Friday, March 18 2005 @ 01:44 PM EST (#106619) #

Blood is definitely thicker than OPS+.

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