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Among baseball's many commonly used terms are things like "Staff Ace", "Solid #3 starter", and "Back of the rotation guy". But as with many baseball terms, these can mean very different things to different people. As the Blue Jays look ahead to 2005, few would question Roy Halladay as a legitimate Staff Ace. But is Ted Lilly a Solid #3? Josh Towers is certainly not a front of the rotation starter, but is he a liability or an asset at the back?

To come up with empirical definitions for the #1 through #5 starting pitcher labels, I had a look at data from the last three seasons in both leagues. I chose three years of data rather than a larger sample to be sure my numbers apply to the current game (in terms of offensive levels, player conditioning, bullpen management, etc.). I wanted a sample larger than just one season to avoid excessive influence of the number and significance of injuries and call-ups in a given year.

This leads to what I feel is a very key point. As stated above, Roy Halladay is generally acknowledged as a #1 starter – but in 2004, his performance was surely not that of a #1, as he missed significant time and pitched at a reduced level for health reasons. While we expect that Roy will be back to his previously established performance standard for next year, our general definition of a #1 starter must take into account the fact that several starting pitchers we expect to be aces in 2005 will be hampered by injury. Further, in any given year there are rookies who make significant contributions. While only the most optimistic Toronto fan would have projected David Bush as a #3 Major League starter in 2004 before the season began, we shall see that in retrospect he wears that label handsomely.


Running The Numbers

As mentioned, I looked at 3 years of data to come up with my empirical definitions of the starting pitcher labels. I used Baseball Prospectus’ Value Over Replacement Player (VORP) as the yardstick for net performance. The top 90 starting pitchers from this period make up the definition of a #1 Starter; those ranked 91 through 180 define a #2 Starter; and so on.

In determining the top 450 starters over the past 3 years, one must of course draw a line to distinguish between starters and relievers. For the purposes of this study, the standard was defined as follows (note that the order is important):

  1. A pitcher with fewer than 12 starts is not a starter.
  2. A pitcher with 20 or more starts is a starter.
  3. A pitcher with more than 10 relief appearances is not a starter.

At this point the sample size was 454 pitcher-seasons. To arrive at the desired sample of 450, the 4 pitchers with the fewest innings pitched per game were dropped.

Without further ado, the results:

Pitcher GS IP H/9 BB/9 K/9 HR/9 ERA VORP
#1 Starter 32 213 8.1 2.6 7.2 0.9 3.27 55.0
#2 Starter 29 185 8.8 2.9 6.4 1.0 3.91 32.1
#3 Starter 27 163 9.2 3.1 5.9 1.1 4.31 20.3
#4 Starter 23 138 9.7 3.4 5.7 1.2 4.87 8.2
#5 Starter 22 123 10.4 3.8 5.6 1.4 5.76 -5.2

Table 1 – Major League starter expected performances. Total VORP: 110.4

[Note that the rate stats seen in Table 1 are roughly park- and league-neutral. This is because each is derived as the average of 90 different starters who are slotted not based on the rate stat itself, but on their genuinely context-independent VORP totals.]

As is to be expected given the structure of this study, the innings pitched totals seen here are lower than a team would look to receive from their starting pitchers, particularly at the bottom of the rotation. This is because it is exceedingly rare for a team to employ just 5 starters over the course of a full season. For example, in the past 3 years, the Blue Jays have averaged 11 different starters per season.


Typical Rotations

To get a better feel for what an average 5-man rotation produces, let’s have a look at a theoretical rotation for each Major League in 2004, with actual players representing each of the 5 slots.

Pitcher GS IP H/9 BB/9 K/9 HR/9 ERA VORP
J. Westbrook 30 216 8.7 2.5 4.8 0.8 3.38 54.4
Barry Zito 34 213 9.1 3.4 6.9 1.2 4.48 31.5
Joel Pineiro 21 141 9.2 2.8 7.1 1.3 4.67 20.4
Aaron Sele 24 132 11.1 3.5 3.5 1.1 5.05 7.4
R.A. Dickey 15 104 11.7 2.8 4.9 1.5 5.61 -4.6

Table 2 – Typical 2004 American League starting staff. Total VORP: 109.1

Before the season began, one might have reasonably projected Westbrook, Zito, and Pineiro as #1, #2, and #3 starters, but certainly not in that order. R.A. Dickey began 2004 strong, but reverted to his usual ways in due course. Many of us would have expected a #4 type performance out of Aaron Sele, but the Angels were doubtless hoping he would eat more innings.

Pitcher GS IP H/9 BB/9 K/9 HR/9 ERA VORP
Oliver Perez 30 196 6.7 3.7 11.0 1.0 2.94 54.5
Russ Ortiz 34 205 8.7 4.9 6.3 1.0 4.13 33.1
Eric Milton 34 201 8.8 3.4 7.2 1.9 4.75 18.7
Jae Seo 21 118 10.2 3.8 4.1 1.3 4.90 8.3
W. Obermueller 20 118 10.5 3.2 4.5 1.1 5.80 -4.5

Table 3 – Typical 2004 National League starting staff. Total VORP: 110.1

Oliver Perez made good on his considerable potential in 2004, turning in the 9th-best pitching performance in the National League at the age of 22 (Incidentally, his 23-year-old former teammate Jake Peavy in San Diego was 8th best with a VORP of 57.5). While many raised their eyebrows at the 4-year, $33 million contract that Russ Ortiz recently signed with the Diamondbacks, his performance in 2004 was in line with this type of compensation. We maintain our skepticism that Ortiz can continue to perform at this level. Eric Milton, on the other hand, will have to improve considerably to earn his new $8.5M per annum deal. A league-average rotation at that level of $/VORP would cost a cool 50 million dollars. Jae Seo (the NL’s answer to Josh Towers) was a representative #4 starter, while Wes Obermueller of Milwaukee turned in a typical #5 starter performance.


Your Toronto Blue Jays

Many have observed that starting pitching was not to blame for the abysmal 2004 Blue Jay season, and the numbers stand behind that opinion.

Pitcher GS IP H/9 BB/9 K/9 HR/9 ERA VORP
Ted Lilly 32 197 7.8 4.1 7.7 1.2 4.06 44.6
Roy Halladay 21 133 9.5 2.6 6.4 0.9 4.20 26.1
Miguel Batista 31 199 9.3 4.3 4.7 1.0 4.80 22.6
David Bush 16 98 8.8 2.3 5.9 1.0 3.69 20.6
Josh Towers 21 116 11.4 2.0 3.9 1.2 5.11 10.5

Table 4 – Blue Jays 2004 starting staff. Total VORP: 124.4

While pitching fewer innings than an average front five (743 to 823), the Blue Jay rotation contributed 14 more points of VORP than an average team would expect. If VORP theory holds, this lack of innings is inconsequential, as freely available talent can make up the 80 innings while contributing a VORP of zero. In practice, the 2004 Blue Jays netted a –2.7 Value Over Replacement Player from the other 5 men used as starting pitchers (without taking into consideration that some of these players spent time in the bullpen):

 +5.7	Gustavo Chacin
 +4.9	Ryan Glynn
 -0.5	Jason Kershner
 -1.4	Justin Miller
-11.4	Pat Hentgen

Ted Lilly has been variously described as a reasonable #3 starter to having the potential to be a #2 in 2005. The numbers see him differently: after hovering around the line between a #2 and a #3 in 2002 and 2003 (VORP totals of 23.4 and 28.8), Lilly’s 2004 VORP of 44.3 placed him in the bottom tier of #1 starters. At 29 years old and with a healthy past, I’m quite content to have him following Roy Halladay in the 2005 rotation. The only question with Halladay himself is if he’s entirely healthy and can remain so right through September. I like his chances.

The rest of the rotation brings yet more optimism for this observer. Assuming that management doesn’t continue the curious experiment of Miguel Batista in the bullpen, he’ll be the #3 starter. Despite some fans being ready to send him away for nothing by the end of the year, El Artista performed as a typical #3 when it was all said and done.

In contrast, Dave Bush contributed very similar value to Batista but was universally praised. Part of this was due to lower expectations, part due to the fact that he provided more quality and less quantity in innings pitched, and part due to his being the first J.P. Ricciardi-drafted player to have a Major League impact in Toronto. While the axiom says that young pitchers will break your heart, at 25 Bush’s pitching style is more savvy than showy.

Josh Towers finds himself at spring training with a host of challengers for his #5 starter title. He did the job just fine in 2004, but with his tragic flaw being the long ball he may be better suited to a more spacious home field. Waiting and eager to step in are Ryan Glynn, Gustavo Chacin, and Scott Downs. Further down the depth chart but also candidates to make Major League starts in 2005 are Chad Gaudin, Seung Song, and Josh Banks.


What's In A Number? | 29 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 09:07 AM EST (#103440) #
Nice piece, Jonny. VORP has its difficulties as a performance indicator for pitchers; when combined with a measure of fielding independent pitching (such as dERA), a truer picture emerges.

Anyways, the bottom line conclusion would remain, although the players would shuffle a bit (Halladay up, Lilly down, Bush up a little). The Jay starting rotation should be at least average, and with luck, much better than that.
Rich - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 10:52 AM EST (#103444) #
Good work; I enjoyed reading it and it's an interesting line of analysis. I don't think the assertion that Batista had an average #3 starter line is valid, however. His ERA, K, and BB numbers were all significantly below the #3 averages. He will have to pitch better to justify his contract and help the Jays get back above .500.
Mylegacy - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 12:07 PM EST (#103453) #
Interesting, good work.

H,L, and the 2B's are a VERY solid starting four. Among the starters in the system, Rosario and Banks should challenge soemtime this year. IM(Humble)O Rosario is better than Bush and Banks a near Bush clone. Others, including McGowan, to follow soon.

By September our rotation will be in the top five in the AL, really well poised for 06 till 11.

Let the games begin!
Ducey - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 01:26 PM EST (#103466) #
<i>his tragic flaw being the long ball he may be better suited to a more spacious home field</i>

This seems to be the consensus on Towers, but is it right?

Based on the stats from last year his long ball numbers were in line with a 5th, 4th, or even 3rd starter. Isn't Tower's real problem just the number of hits (of all types)he gives up per 9 IP?

Matthew E - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 01:57 PM EST (#103467) #
The use of labels like 'number three starter' to describe pitchers is one of my least favourite things about the way people talk about baseball. It's so vague, and yet it's used so definitively by those who use it.

But this was a very intelligent approach to take to the issue, and I don't hate it.

Carry on.
Pistol - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 02:05 PM EST (#103468) #
Good stuff.

Where I think the labels differ from this is that people assign the labels in terms of pitchers on a playoff team. If you were to go through and label pitchers as a #1 or #2 starter you'd probably just get up to 40 instead of 60.

Bush was interesting. If you kept his actual performance and doubled it (getting him to just under 200 innings) you'd get a VORP similiar to Lilly. It'll be interesting to see how he fares this year.

The other interesting thing to me is that a pitcher with a 5.00 ERA can be a contributing player (or at least have a positive VORP). I always think of an ERA in excess of 4.50 to be bad, but that's not always the case these days.
Mike Green - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 02:13 PM EST (#103469) #

Here is Towers' career record. As you can see, homers are the main problem. Over his career, if he'd had an average no. of homers allowed (say 1 per nine innings), he'd have been a pretty good pitcher.

When the Jays acquired him, I pointed out that Bob Tewksbury would be his career target, and if the Jays moved back the fences 10 feet, he might very well have made a good run at him.

Pistol - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 02:19 PM EST (#103471) #
"Based on the stats from last year his long ball numbers were in line with a 5th, 4th, or even 3rd starter. Isn't Tower's real problem just the number of hits (of all types)he gives up per 9 IP?"

Towers was a bit more of a groundball pitcher in 2004 (1.4:1). His problem is that he doesn't strike anyone out so there's a lot of balls in play, and subsequently a lot of hits.
Rich - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 02:42 PM EST (#103475) #
The use of labels like 'number three starter' to describe pitchers is one of my least favourite things about the way people talk about baseball. It's so vague, and yet it's used so definitively by those who use it. I think it has quite a clear meaning - a guy to whom a team would guarantee a playoff start, but not likely in Game 1 of a series unless it was unavoidable. It also describes a set of performance and salary expectations for a pitcher quite reasonably, in my view.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 02:44 PM EST (#103476) #
Jonathan, I deleted your comment so I could repost it, below, with a live link. Also, could you give us a couple of thoughts on why you thought this would be such a discussion-starter?

I'm not disagreeing, I haven't even read the story yet, but am looking for a reason to do so. Give me a couple!

Jonathan - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 01:18 PM EST (#103463)


Interesting article in the Toronto Star about Gord Ash today. Sure to generate discussion....wish it was written by Griffin though!
Matthew E - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 02:55 PM EST (#103478) #
<i>I think it has quite a clear meaning</i>

I know you do. So does everybody. The problem is, there's no consensus about all these clear meanings. Therefore I don't use those terms.
Jonny German - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 03:06 PM EST (#103480) #
The problem is, there's no consensus about all these clear meanings.

Natch - the very reason I wrote this article! I do quite like Pistol's point about playoff calibre teams though, I may run those numbers sometime.

jsoh - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 03:17 PM EST (#103484) #
Like MikeG, I'm vaguely uncomfortable in assessing pitchers on the basis VORP, tho I'm unable to pin down precisely why that is.

For example, the comparison between Bush and Batista and the assertion that they provided equivalent value. Which, when you look at VORP, is quite obviously true.

However, Bush accumulated his VORP in about half the innings than Batista did. On a VORP/IP basis, Bush was much more valuable. Twice as much, to be precise.

It kinda seems to me that using VORP as the basis of value judgements (ie, who's 'worth' more, who provided 'more' value) within the context of a single season (rather than in a larger aggregate, like career worth, or worth over multiple seasons) is only useful when comparing pitches with relatively similar IP totals.

Or I could be babbling. Who's to know?
Jonny German - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 03:50 PM EST (#103489) #
It's all very valid, jsoh, but I think it's one of those situations where you have to choose between a flawed measure or staying home. I believe the study shows that if you get ~20 VORP out of your 3rd best starter, you're around league average for that position. I think that's reasonably straightforward.

The value of a particular player is a trickier thing. Was Bush's contribution more valuable to the team than Batista's? It's not as obviously "Yes" as it might appear, because in order to get from Bush's 98 innings to Batista's 199, you play guys like Glynn, Kershner, and Miller, and they contribute something in the neighbourhood of zero VORP.

You can make a very solid argument that Bush would have contributed more than Batista had he been given more Major League starts, but the point of this exercise was to focus on what is, not what shoulda coulda woulda been.
Four Seamer - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 03:50 PM EST (#103490) #
The article on Ash was an interesting read, and it contained this controversial supposition: that Ben Sheets and Doug Davis represent one of the finest righty-lefty combos in the Major Leagues.

Sheets was certainly lights-out excellent last year, and Davis has pitched well since joining the Brewers, but this strikes me as a bit of a stretch.
Rob - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 03:51 PM EST (#103491) #
the comparison between Bush and Batista and the assertion that they provided equivalent value

I agree here, the VORP doesn't help much with this comparison. One pitcher was great for a half season, and another was merely average, but in twice as many innings.

If you removed Batista from a rotation, and replaced him with Bush, you also need to replace those other 99 innings. All Bush would have to do to "equal" Batista is put up a 5.88 ERA, strike out 40 and walk 71 in 101 innings. Or, if you look at it this way:

Pitcher     ERA     K/9    BB/9    HR/9
Real Bush   3.69    5.9     2.3     1.0            
The Rest    5.88    3.6     6.3     1.0
There's no way, with the way Bush was pitching last season, that he would have imploded like this. The spike in walks alone would never have happened.
Pepper Moffatt - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 03:57 PM EST (#103494) #
That's a problem in any counting stat, not just VORP. Both Justin Morneau and Rondell White hit 19 homers last year, but Morneau's performance is a lot more impressive because he did it in a lot less ABs.

The one difference, of course, is that your VORP can actually go down if you play worse than a replacement level player, which doesn't happen with any of the traditional counting stats, which only go upwards.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 03:59 PM EST (#103496) #
Did somebody mention Spike?
jsoh - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 04:57 PM EST (#103515) #
because in order to get from Bush's 98 innings to Batista's 199, you play guys like Glynn, Kershner, and Miller, and they contribute something in the neighbourhood of zero VORP.

Oh yeah, I recognize that. I guess I'm just trying to account for the notion that Bush didnt pitch the extra 100 innings due to his own ineffectiveness/injuries, but someone elses (Hentgen, primarily). Its not like Bush had input on when he'd be given a chance to pitch

On that basis, comparing Hentgen to Batista in terms of VORP is 'better', despite the IP difference, precisely because Hentgen had the opportunity to pitch, and then stunk. he point of this exercise was to focus on what is, not what shoulda coulda woulda been.

Understood. Just making conversation :)

Lefty - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 06:09 PM EST (#103524) #
Actually Richard Griffin wrote a lovely spring piece on Just Inspire today.
JackFoley - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 06:40 PM EST (#103525) #
I've actually found Griffin's spring training articles to be among the best he's ever written. Fair, insightful, and not unnecessarily negative.
gv27 - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 07:58 PM EST (#103527) #
I couldn't help notice a pro-Blue Jay slant to the list of non-roster invitees to Boston's camp: Cassidy, Kershner, Berg, and Pond. Has anyone noticed where other recent Jays have ended up?
jgadfly - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 08:11 PM EST (#103528) #
...what impact on the numbers or calculations does "mismatching" (when J's #5 guy throws against NYY #1...etc.etc...)have as opposed to the classic duels of #1 vs #1, 2 vs 2...5 vs 5 ? How does Towers stack up when he starts against other #5 pitchers? How does #'s 1 thru 4 stack up vs their respective counterparts ? How do they stack up vs higher rated starters ? ... This leads to another question...are the J's at some disadvantage in the first two months of the season by playing all of their home games inside thus eliminating postponements and as while having the same scheduling system that tries to accomodate lost games early on by having open dates available for makeups ? ie: does the J's ability to maintain their pitching rotation 1-5 disadvantage them when it comes to matching up against their opponents 1-5?...Do the Twins also run into this bias?
VBF - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 11:30 PM EST (#103548) #
On the topic of Blue Jays pitchers...

Dave Stieb will be going into St. Mary's.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?id=116024

I thought it would've been posted earlier but couldn't find it.
Craig B - Friday, February 25 2005 @ 12:32 AM EST (#103552) #
gv27 (hi, by the way, and welcome) asked Has anyone noticed where other recent Jays have ended up?

Coach Kent (he says hello to all) and I were talking this evening about how the Devil Rays seem to be collecting ex-Jays this season, as always. Their ex-Jays contingent (just on the 40-man, mind you) now stands at six:

Mark Hendrickson
Trever Miller
Kevin Cash
Roberto Alomar
Alex Gonzalez
Josh Phelps

Gitz - Friday, February 25 2005 @ 01:55 AM EST (#103559) #
Maybe the D-Rays should collect useful ex-Jays? That Delgado fellow comes to mind, for starters.

Aside from Carlos, who is the most valuable ex-Jay running around?
Dylan B - Friday, February 25 2005 @ 04:19 AM EST (#103560) #
Roger Clemens, if you are looking for someone who played with the Jays. Micheal Young or Craig Wilson if you are looking for someone drafted by them. Or if you are looking for both then that probally leaves some one like Shawn Green or Shannon Stewart(2003 MVP!!!!).
gv27 - Friday, February 25 2005 @ 11:28 PM EST (#103737) #
Thanks for the welcome Craig B. Your note on the Devil Rays shows how the opener will be a virtual alumni game. With Larkin and Edgar Martinez now retired, I'm guessing we've seen the last of the one-team career, though I can't see Derek Jeter wearing something other than Yankee pinstripes.

I thought I'd share an oddity I found while flipping through the Baseball Encyclopedia. Certainly, this doesn't happen often. I found three players who drove in 100-runs in a season while hitting LESS then 10 home runs. Check this out:

Bill Brubaker ('36 Pirates): 6-HR 102-RBI
Bob Elliott ('45 Pirates): 8-HR 108-RBI
Tommy Herr ('85 Cardinals): 8-HR 110-RBI




baagcur - Friday, March 04 2005 @ 10:35 AM EST (#104355) #
Thought I'd sent this earlier but guess it got lost

Anyway's there is now an interactive table at majorleaguecharts which extends Jonny's work to each team/season for the 1990-2004 time period

Haven't studied the data in detail but interesting to compare the very average WS 1993 Blue Jays rotation with Atlanta's of the same year and the almost equivalent VORP's of the Yankee's fivesome last year

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