Before anyone gets wise on us here, no, Sidd Finch is not an eligible choice -- fictional characters such as Finch and Roy Hobbs, even if he did strike out the Whammer on three pitches, are not eligible.

I'm going to go off the expected board a little and take a guy I bet some of you have never heard of -- Hall of Fame righty Addie Joss, who had a career ERA of 1.89 and is one of the only MLB players ever inducted into the Hall of Fame eithout meeting the official requirements (an early, tragic death kept him from playing 10 years in the big leagues). Approximately one out of every six times he took the hill, Joss threw a complete game shutout.

For one game, AJ gets the ball for me.

Herb Score

Because my dad was an Indians fan back in his day and filled my head with fictional tales of his brief greatness...

Come to think of it, I'll actually look him up on baseball reference for once, and then feel like an utter fool for even mentioning him here.

My heart--as well as my addled brain!--demands I choose Pedro Martinez, circa 1999. Simply the best pitcher I've ever seen, and B-Ref's numbers vault Pedro to the top of the list for the best peak by a starting pitcher in baseball history.

Back then, I expected complete games or something very close to it from Pedro; an outing where even the best hitters were left looking foolish, and a pitching line full of zeroes, and maybe even a no-hitter.

For one game, Pedro Martinez gets the ball for me.

Addendum to my previous remark: B-Ref has reminded me that Pedro's 2000 season was actually his best. Somehow, he didn't win 20 games that year, but his numbers were even more eye-popping than in 1999.

Just cause I'm bored
and cause I wanna see someone rip apart poor old Herb

I stand by my selection
from 1955-56,

5th in ERA+ then 1st
K/9IP 1st both times
H/9IP 2nd, then 1st

All at ages 22 and 23

One last number to throw out for Pedro's candidacy: his single-season ERA+ mark for 2000 is the highest in modern baseball history, at 285. Dutch Leonard comes in second for his 1914 season.

(I personally don't believe Tim Keefe's 1880 mark, just a couple of points higher than Pedro's, is eligible for consideration.)

I suppose that also doesn't include Dennis Eckersley's mark of 606 in 1990. :)

I think I'll also take Pedro Martinez. But I'll go with the 1997 version. His ERA wasn't as good, but he tossed a complete game in well over a third of his starts. If a pitcher was pitching for my life, I want him in there the whole game...

Because I'm a morbid pessimist I choose to die. Therefore, I select the 1984 version of Mark Davis, who, pitching for my much be-hated SF Giants, was the single-worst pitcher that I have ever seen in my life. No, no, no, don't bother going to B-ref to check out ERA++++'s and such nonsense. His numbers probably don't look that terrible. But take it from me, gentle and un-gentle readers alike: never have more curve balls been hung by the chimney with less care, never have fastballs looked and deliciously plump as coming out of the dear hands of Mr. Davis. While there have no doubt been worse statistical seasons in the history of MLB, I am flat-out convinced that Davis would lead me to the Un-Promised Land, the fiery red gates of Hell. Oh, well. At least I can chill (so to speak) with the starting line of the 1976 Philadelphia Flyers.

If a pitcher was pitching for my life, I want him in there the whole game...

"And now coming in to pitch for Pedro Martinez, John Wasdin."

Yeah, You don't want to hear that when your life is on the line.

I'm going to go with Pedro also, but I'll have to go with the 2000 version. I remember going to an A's game and Terrence Long hitting a lead-off home run off of him. Following that Pedro shut everyone down for 7 innings, allowing only 3 more hits. It was a great game between him and Mulder but Pedro just made everyone look silly. There was one situation when Pedro's lone walk reached after a single with one out and then he struck out the next two like nothing at all. After that game my father said that it was one of the best pitched games he'd ever seen. The thing is, he did that for an entire season. Everytime Pedro went to the mound that year it was almost as if a no hitter or perfect game might happen like Shrike says, it was incredible.

In re-reading that question, it occured to me that Mick may have intended the pitcher to be a Blue Jay. If so, and I still have my death wish to appease, then I select ... well, I dunno. I'm tempted to pick someone from the 2003 bullpen corps, but that seems too easy. I'll have to brush up on my Bad Blue Jays Pitching History and return to this question later. (Provided Mark Davis hasn't already taken the mound, that is.)

Egads. It does say any pitcher, any era, any team. As clear as Vodka, which, sadly, I am not drunk from. I'm going to bed and not waking up for, say, three days. EOM.

For one game, AJ gets the ball for me.

Joss was a real fine pitcher, but I wouldn't even think about pick him. A lot of his success came from his trick delivery, which from contemporary reports sounds similar to Hideo Nomo's. If you brought him forward to today, I'd be surprised if he was much better than Nomo was. Nomo was a fine pitcher, of course, and Joss was great in his day. But in both cases you have a guy with a very good fastball and a very tough delivery setting up a decent breaking pitch (a hard curve for Joss, the forkball for Nomo).

Just cause I'm bored
and cause I wanna see someone rip apart poor old Herb

I wouldn't rip him. Herb Score is a great choice for something like this, he was going to be an absolute monster before the line drive.

For me, the best guy I ever saw was probably Maddux in the mid-90s, but I have a problem picking him for this because he did not have a great record at winning the "one game" he had to win in those years.

I'm tempted to pick Mathewson, because he was awesome at his peak and he understood the dynamic of the "big-game" environment as well as anyone. But Matty had some horrible bad luck (don't believe me? His career record in the World Series is 5-5... with an *0.97* ERA) and I'm just superstitious enough to want the luck on my side in a big game like that.

So I keep drifting back to the two guys who always dialed it to 11 when it was all on the line. Gibson and Koufax. They're close, but never having seen either I gotta go with Koufax. I like his ice versus Gibson's fire. Coach will be very disappointed in me, I know. :)

You know who else I thought hard about? Jim Palmer. Palmer always seemed to play up to the big occasion. But again, his big performances were before (a slight touch before) my time, so I don't have the same knowledge to draw on.

And I probably should just bow down to the statistics and pick Pedro, who realistically has had a better career than Koufax did, game in and game out.

Satchell Paige. I'd love to have him on the mound doing whatever it was he did if I needed to win a game, any game.

Also considered Bob Feller and Don Drysdale, but got to give Paige the nod to throw out a completely new name. By the way, this thread is making me miss the Baseball Trivia thread of a few months ago. Any chance we could see another one of those around here? I live for baseball trivia.

Christy Mathewson is an excellent candidate, Craig, and undoubtedly my favourite pitcher of the first half of the twentieth century, but as you say--he was cursed (so to speak, despite brilliant efforts) in the World Series with a pedestrian 5-5 career record.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B04100TOR1990.htm
Right now I am watching an old game I dug up that my dad taped (COMN) I was looking for opening day 1988, but this will do for now. I also found the 91 ASG. Chevrier mentioned W because HW was at the game and W was part owner of the Rangers at the time. Why did they start the season in Texas only to come home after one game?

Also, I'd pick 99 Pedro too. I could throw a curveball and pick, say, 86 Scott, but everyone can hit a splitter now. And the umps might catch the scuffing, and then you're screwed.

If Craig doesn't want Gibson, I'll take him. I never saw him pitch live, but I loved the way he approached the game and (as Craig mentioned) dialed it up when needed. I even have a softball jersey with his number 45 on it. I could wear it in the dugout while he pitches for my life.

For a pitcher from a much earlier era, I'll go with the 1913 version of Walter Johnson. Best in ERA, ERA+ (259), wins, win pct., hit rate, walk rate AND strikeout rate, strikeouts, fewest homers allowed, innings pitched, complete games, and shutouts. Ridiculously dominant in all aspects of the game, plus he had a 110 OPS+ as a hitter!

For Gitz's Pitcher Most Likely To Guarantee Your Untimely Demise, may I present the 1999 version of Mark Clark.

For those who deride Fergie Olver's skills, he foreshadowed the Sox' Pedro-Wake-Schill rotation in talking about how hard it is to face Ryan one night and Hough the next. Then again, he said Jeff Huson could help the Rangers if he just hit .260 and he hosted Just Like Mom.

If my life were on the line, I'd take the 1963 version of Koufax, or Pedro in his prime.

If the starter has to be a Blue Jay, I'd take Roger Clemens in 1997 or 1998. Second choice is Dave Stieb as he was pitching in the first half of 1983; he was absolutely unstoppable then.

An off-the-board choice, but I would choose the 1976 Mark "The Bird" Fidrych.

I was only 11, but I still remember the June 1976 "Monday Night Baseball" game against the Yankees. I think it helped turn an entire generation of kids into eccentric little leaguers.

Not only would this hypothetical game be an epic, it also would be an entertaining game for the ages.

I wonder how Pat Borders would handle a pitcher who talks to the ball...

"Three-Fingers Brown", (Jordan will get it)

actually... in a must-win game, were total runs scored doesn't matter a lick, just the win... I have to put in Jack Morris ... he always seemed to win the big ones....

I pick Jim Bouton, circa 1963.

It'd be fun to see him beat up on his teammates, particularly because he was left off the '62 playoff roster.

For a must-win, I will play devils advocate and second Jack Morris. Also worthy of a mention is Doc Halladay circa September 2003.

Oh yeah, Dave Stieb September 1988-- and pull him in the ninth with two out and insert Henke!!

I've been waiting for someone to pick the 1916-18 version of young lefty George Ruth, who could probably also hit third or fourth in whatever lineup you tossed out there.

I tell you, I'll never forget those two Morris starts in the 1992 WS. Game 1, the spotlight shines on him and the Blue Jays for the first time in WS. Morris walks 5 in a 6 inning, 3 run loss. Fortunately, he got a chance to redeem himself in Game 5, with the Jays having a chance to lock up the WS at home. 4 2/3 IP 7 ER. The Jays went on to win the Series despite him.

I'd have to go with either Koufax or Pedro from their great years.

I was waiting for someone to point that out, Tyler. Thanks!

I'm surprised a Jays fan would say that Morris always won the big game. He stunk up the joint in some of the most important Jays games ever.

Okay I'm going to shut up after this. promise. This is my final answer: Orel Hershiser again in September-October 1988...
1) 59 consecutive scoreless innings.
2) He also won the NLCS MVP & WS MVP that year

I believe that record will never be topped. I've only been thinking about the last 20 years, and there are just so many stretches of dominating pitching out there. Damn you Mick, and your tricky time wasting questions

Satchel Paige, I was talking to a guy who played during that era, and remembers hearing the story of a batter at the plate, turned around and yelled at the ump to tell Paige to pitch, the umpire replied, you already have two strikes.....Paige was just flat out dominant, I would love to know what some of those Negro leaguers could have done if times were different.

I'll take Koufax in 1965. Those games against the Twins in the World Series were electric

Don Larsen, as he was pitching on October 8, 1956. :-)

I don't doubt that Paige was one of the top four or five pitchers of all time, but some of the stories about him HAVE to be just that ... stories. The apocrypha of the Negro Leagues is grand.

I'll take the 85 version of sure future Hall of Famer(at that time) Doc Gooden. Best pitcher I ever saw. Both dominant and endurable ( I think he has around 16 CG and threw 270 innings). Just have to deal with that cocaine stuff. Did he use it in his prime or only after his injuries? Troubling thought to depend my life on a addict, though.

I'll take Randy Johnson, 2004 version.

I'll give another vote to Bob Gibson. Just from childhood memories.

I'll go for the homer pick of Roger Clemens Clemens of the 1997 Toronto Blue Jays. Never have I felt more confident of victory with any other pitcher stating for the Jays. And that 1997 Jays offense was nothing to right home about with line-up that included the likes of Carlos Garcia (.561 OPS), Alex Gonzalez (.689 OPS), Charlie Obrien (.347 SLG), Orlando Merced (actually one of the better hitters, Ed Sprague (.691 OPS), Joe Carter (.399 SLG), and Benito Santiago (.387 SLG). If it wasn't for young hitters Delgado and Green showing signs of future greatness this line-up would have been all bad.

I'm not sure the 1961 Yankees were all that great a team, to be honest. Bill James said as much in the Historical Baseball Abstract. Despite their phenomenal power, they scored "only" 827 runs. They didn't even lead the American League that year. They had no bench, and hardly any offense outside of the longball. Whitey Ford was really the only quality pitcher on that team.

Therefore, I want Tommy John. Let them hit groundballs all they want. They didn't steal bases and they were about average in walks. They won't beat me with singles.

LOL!

I'll go for the homer pick of Roger Clemens Clemens of the 1997 Toronto Blue Jays. Never have I felt more confident of victory with any other pitcher stating for the Jays

- Please don't confuse the statistician Roger Clemens Clemens with the pitcher Roger Clemens of the Jays 1997 team

Oh, if said pitcher must be a Blue Jay, I'll take Jimmy Key, '87 version. I expect he'll shut down Maris and Berra, and to me it wouldn't matter what side Mickey hits from.

The Jays went on to win the Series despite him

To his credit, I loved Jack Morris's interview after Game 5. He said something to the effect of "The Braves should be really worried, because they don't get to face me again."

In today's huge free agent news:
The Cleveland Indians today announced the club has signed
INF ALEX CORA to a two-year free agent Major League contract
through the 2006 season.

Source: indians.com e-mail, BBRRS: marble.

Therefore, I want Tommy John. Let them hit groundballs all they want. They didn't steal bases and they were about average in walks. They won't beat me with singles.

I like your thinking.

I was wondering if a righty or a lefty would be better, but I don't think it would make much of a difference. Howard, Skowron, Richardson, and Boyer were righties. Kubek, Maris, Berra and Ford were lefties. Mantle was a switch-hitter.

I'd want someone who kept the ball on the ground, didn't give up very many homerruns, and threw strikes. They were a slow team, so you should be able to get yourself out of trouble with DPs.

A guy like Roy Halladay would fit the bill, but he does give up his fair share of homeruns.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1968346
I don't know if this was mentioned elsewhere, but it fits nicely with Mick's QOTD. Jayson Stark elaborated on Curt Schilling's interview with ESPN that aired Sunday on SportsCenter (COMN). Apparently Schilling is motivated by the prospect of playing a life or death game:

"I'll say it again. Other than the Lord and my family, I'm identified by what I do with the ball in my hand every fifth day. ... I take a lot of pride in what people say about me as a pitcher. I want to go out there every fifth day, and I want the other [team's] 25 guys to be saying, 'Aw, crap. Schilling's pitching.' And I want the 24 guys that I'm suiting up with to say, 'Today's win day. Schilling's pitching.'

"That comes through consistent achievement. Not monthly or weekly, but year in and year out. But that's what I strive for. And when I walk away from playing, that's what I want people to say. I want them to say that if I had to win a game -- life or death, one game -- that's the guy I want to have the ball."

Is this where you got the idea for the QOTD from Mick?

Uhhhh ... yeah, we'll go with that. That is where I got the idea from. That's the ticket!

Dammit. Italix off.

I was going to say Sandy Koufax(sp?) but after much consideration I'm picking Jack Morris. Honestly, is there a better big game pitcher to ever toe the mound? I think not.

Koufax, for me. The 61 Yankees' power was mostly from the left. Plus, Koufax did face the 63 Yankees, with much the same personnel, in the World Series and did a nice number, 2 starts, 2 complete games, 12 hits, 3 earned runs, 3 walks, 23 strikeouts. The 3 runs resulted from homers by Tresh (who probably wouldn't have been on the 61 team) and Mantle.

I would take the 1965 version of Sandy Koufax. He beat Whotey Ford twice in the 1963 Series.

BA has published its All-Stats pre-season All-American collegiate team. Comparing BA's stats choices with our own Craig Burley's choices is interesting.

I think you guys might be wrong in relying on "big game" pitchers. Your life is on the line, not their's. What's in it for a Jack Morris? :-)

I'd take Gibson. Wasn't he the unofficial reason that they lowered the mound?

So you point to the bullpen, the gate opens, and who comes trotting out to take the ball for the first inning?

Much as I hate to say this (because the guy really annoys me), I'll have to go with Petey, circa 2000. Reasons: 1.74 ERA, .167 BAA, 8.88 K/BB in 217 IP. To me, Martinez in 2000 was the most dominant I have seen a starting pitcher be over a single season in my lifetime.

Wow, just read the rest of this thread, seems like a lot of people are going with Pedro...

What tips the balance toward Pedro (this argument applies to Maddux, too) is that his domination came in an era of unbridled offencive power, as his ERA+ of 8,404 (approx.) indicates.

Like all good-hearted people, I have chosen life, not death, so I will send the brothers Mark (Grant and Davis) to the bullpen and select as the pitcher to save my immortal soul ... Bob Gibson, circa 1968. Nasty stuff, nasty mentality.

"The Braves should be really worried, because they don't get to face me again."

Whatever I may think about Morris being overrated, I respect for at least being upfront about what he thinks. His comment about female sportswriters being in the dressing room is one of the funnier things I've ever read.

There is really only once choice here, right? The guy I hate the most in baseball, Curt Schilling.

The guy I hate the most in baseball, Curt Schilling.

Reasons? Schilling is good, but all bloody-sock-related hype aside, he's not great, by his own admission probably not even a HOFer.

Oops. I meant reasons for choosing him, not for hating him. The latter is obvious :).

Schilling is going to make the HOF based on his "clutch" ability to deliver championships to Arizona and Boston, especially the latter. He could retire right now, more than a dozen wins short of even 200, and he'd get in. Not saying he should; just that he will.

Oh, by the way, Schilling's 2004 post-season: 2-1, 4.37. So he shoone bright in the most critical moment, but as above, bloody sock aside, The Legend of Curt Schilling, Super-Pitcher and Christian Evangelist Supreme, has grown a bit beyond its bounds.

Hmm. One game, winner take all. I'd probably go with Randy Johnson or Nolan Ryan. For one game of dominance no one tops those two at their peaks. Both also have enough endurance to go 10-12 innings if needed too. For past pitchers I'd be thinking of another one not mentioned yet, 'Big Train' Walter Johnson.

Koufax,1963-65, unbeatable at that time. He beat Ford twice in 63 which says it all does`nt it?

I think you guys might be wrong in relying on "big game" pitchers. Your life is on the line, not their's.

Are you suggesting that one should choose themselves to pitch instead of one of the all-time greats? "Murderer's Row" or not, sending myself out there to pitch really would be suicide, no matter how motivated I might be. The only upside I can see being that once I got to heaven at least I could claim I once pitched to Mickey Mantle.

Oh, by the way, Schilling's 2004 post-season: 2-1, 4.37. So he shoone bright in the most critical moment, but as above, bloody sock aside, The Legend of Curt Schilling, Super-Pitcher and Christian Evangelist Supreme, has grown a bit beyond its bounds.

Not to accuse you of being unfair Mick, but if we only look at games (a) before he ripped the tendon, and (b) after they figured out a way to sew the bastard down, he pitched 19 2/3 innings, and gave up 5 earned runs. That's a 2.28 ERA for a guy with a pretty serious injury. According to BRef, he got the win in all three of those starts as well.

For his career in the post-season, if you leave out the one game where he was pitching with a tendon flopping around, he's given up 21 ER in 106 1/3 IP. That's 1.78 career postseason ERA in 14 starts where his tendon was attached either a) naturally or b) with stitches.

I don't get the haters. Long live the legend of Schilling!

You don't get the haters? Schilling is clutch, but also arrogant. Listen the way he talks and attitude the man has. Maybe that goes along with his ability to succeed. And maybe if he played for "my team" I could appreciate it. But he doesn't and I don't.

the three pitcher seasons that immediately come to mind are 1965 Sandy Koufax, 2000 Pedro Martinez, and 1913 Walter Johnson. for the longest time I had considered Johnson's season the best of all time, but his hr/9 ratio for that season is 0.23 which looks great until you consider that was the deadball era. So I'll switch to the 1912 Johnson. the whip and oav aren't as good but they are still very good and the hr/9 ratio is 0.05 for that season.

I'm not 100 % sure on this but I believe the 2000 Martinez has the best relative oav by far. The AL batting average was .276 and his oav was .164. That's a 0.112 difference. 1965 Koufax had a 0.72 difference, and the 1912 Johnson had a similar number of 0.74.

Martinez also wins the K/BB ratio battle with 8.9 compared with Koufax's 5.4 and Johnson's 4.3.

So if I had to choose a pitcher for one game it would be 2000 Pedro. For a whole season, however, I'd go with Johnson. He could easily get you 400 innings and at least 60 starts. But since this is one game only, I'll take Pedro.

Of course this doesn't take into account what the strengths and weaknesses of the 1961 Yankee lineup are. and didn't the 92 blue jays play in skydome?

Of course this doesn't take into account what the strengths and weaknesses of the 1961 Yankee lineup are. and didn't the 92 blue jays play in skydome?

Good thought about considering the lineup you're facing Jason, that never occured to me. And you're right, the Jays did play in Skydome in '92.

I'll never forget those two Morris starts in the 1992 WS. Game 1, the spotlight shines on him and the Blue Jays for the first time in WS. Morris walks 5 in a 6 inning, 3 run loss. Fortunately, he got a chance to redeem himself in Game 5, with the Jays having a chance to lock up the WS at home. 4 2/3 IP 7 ER. The Jays went on to win the Series despite him.

Yes, Morris sucked in the post-season but the Jays wouldn't have made the play-offs without his 5-1 mark in the month of August, when the rest of the team was really struggling. Without those 5 victories, the Milwaukee Brewers would have won the East that year by a game.

Yes, Morris sucked in the post-season but the Jays wouldn't have made the play-offs without his 5-1 mark in the month of August, when the rest of the team was really struggling. Without those 5 victories, the Milwaukee Brewers would have won the East that year by a game.

Not to diminish what Morris did that August, but it's highly unlikely that his replacement would have gone 0-6 over those starts. Even if he had scuffled along at 2-4, they still would have won the East with a game to spare (although Jack did win his one start against Milwaukee that August, so I suppose that if that were one of the losses, he would need three wins to keep the Jays alone in first).

What about his valuable locker-room facial leadership

With Kent gone mid-season he was carrying the whole facial hair load on his back

Ahem
That should be locker-room facial HAIR leadership

One of those wins is like an advertisement for why Morris is overrated. He beat the Tigers in a game that the Jays won 15-11. Morris went 5 innings, giving up 6 earned runs on 9 hits and 5 BB. Chalk up a W. In retrospect, I wonder if he was actually that good for the Jays even during the regular season. He struck out 132 and walked 80 in 240 IP, which doesn't exactly strike me as ace quality pitching.

With Kent gone mid-season he was carrying the whole facial hair load on his back

I'm not sure I want to picture the particular image you're drawing, but I think Dave Winfield, Joe Carter, Pat Borders, David Wells, Duane Ward and Cito Gaston might vehemently disagree...

Koufax in 65, or well any year he was just an incredible pitcher.

I used to love the Pat Borders, readjust the helmet, have a quick flex of the pipes move.

Pat most certainly had a stash and used it to killer effect.

Just a couple comments on the '61 Yanks. First they did have a great bench, including Johnny Blanchard, Bob Cerv, Hector Lopez and for much of the time either Elston Howard or Yogi. Johnny Blanchard had over 20 homers and Hector replaced Mantle in the World Series that year and had a hell of a series. Secondly, they didn't steal much because they had so much home run power and base-stealing was really a National League thing back then. However, they had several players with above average speed who were great baserunners including Mantle, Maris, Kubek, Richardson and Skowron. I'd say their biggest weakness was starting pitching as only Whitey and Ralph Terry were established and they were trying to break in Rollie Sheldon and Billy Stafford who were more or less rookies. But they had reliable middle relievers and got a great year out of Luis Arroyo as their closer. Probably their most underrated aspect was that they were a very solid defensive team. I would probably concur that they were average at taking walks, although it is interesting to note that Maris did not get one intentional walk that year even though he hit the 61 homers. I don't know how I would classify them amongst the great teams of all time since I'm no good at that kind of thing. However, Yankee historians always include the '61 team amongst their top 5 Yankee teams of all time.

Maybe it's just that I haven't been looking for it, but I haven't heard a lot of adjusting strikeouts for era...

Like I said I haven't looked at it, but off the top of my head I'd imagine strikeouts are easier to come by these days, but I've never seen era adjusted strikeout rates along the same lines as we have ERA adjusted for park effects and era (I don't imagine strikeouts would vary much from park to park except in odd exceptions, but I'd like to see era to era ones)

Maybe it's just pointless to do that since it was a totally different game Walter Johnson was pitching in...but I'm just curious how much of Johnson's endurance and Pedro's K ability is their own ability and how much of it is simply how pitchers were used then/then nature of the game at the time.

How many men could Walter Johnson strikeout in 1999, and how many CG's does Pedro get in 1910?

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/printarticle/strike-zone-dominance-in-context-dazzy-and-pedro/
Ask and ye shall receive Greg...courtesy of Steve Treder at Hardball Times. Very cool article. COMN.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1969777
Would anyone want Roger Clemens? He's asking for a record $22 million in arbitration. The Stros have offered a paltry $13.5. COMN.

Maybe it's just pointless to do that since it was a totally different game Walter Johnson was pitching in...but I'm just curious how much of Johnson's endurance and Pedro's K ability is their own ability and how much of it is simply how pitchers were used then/then nature of the game at the time.

How many men could Walter Johnson strikeout in 1999, and how many CG's does Pedro get in 1910?

Well, I think you're right about IP. Pretty much every pitcher in the early days pitched far more innings than would be typical today; that's mostly an artifact of how starters were used then vs. now. Today, a starter is only expected to pitch 6-7 innings before handing it over to a bullpen full of specialists, and we have five man rotations. Strikeouts are less obvious, but I would certainly suppose that Pedro's K rates were not hurt by pitching in the Juiced Player Era, when swinging for the fences regardless of situation is typical and players can be considered good hitters, or at least good offensive producers, despite high K totals (witness Adam Dunn).

You know what? To hell with Saturday Night Live, to hell with Scrabble and to hell with Dan Schatzeder. I want baseball. If not a game then at least a roster move of some kind. January blows.

Would anyone want Roger Clemens? He's asking for a record $22 million in arbitration.

Absolutely ludicrous. He had a good season, but come on.

http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00001340.shtml
Just a quick informational question to Moffatt/Lucas or any other roster members in the know: when will we officially kick off the BBFL (Batter's Box Fantasy League) off-season activities? I dug up the thread from last year that specified the off-season timeline (COMN), and I believe it was officially approved in the voting. That being said, we are now in the window of off-season rule-change proposals for 2005. The most significant question (in my mind) is whether or not the BBFL will expand to a third (Carter) division. I guess it will need to be proposed and voted on.

My other question is if we can have a BBFL thread opened up to promote trade discussion (a bit early yes, but a positive distraction in this slow part of the hot-stove season). I know I have a lot of keeper worthy players and only 5 spots for them, so I'd like to talk turkey with managers from Barfield looking to add some depth to their top 5.

To hell with Saturday Night Live, to hell with Scrabble and to hell with Dan Schatzeder. I want baseball.

Matthew, COMN to send suggestions for QOTD threads while we wait for a transaction that may never come. (Same goes for the rest of ya ... got an idea? Send it in.)

To hell with Saturday Night Live

The words coming easily from habit....

I want baseball. If not a game then at least a roster move of some kind. January blows.

How about this: MVP Baseball 2004, Pitching Challenge. Two CPU players, first to three strikeouts wins. We can all place our bets (minimum two million points, maximum 30 million points, as per Box tradition).

Round 1: Pedro Martinez versus Curt Schilling, against the New York Yankees. Who will be the first to 3 K's? Betting is open until 5:00.

I would definitely pick Koufax if I was picking from a past era. However, if I had to pick a pitcher from today's era, I would pick Randy Johnson, circa the 2001 World Series. Remember when he pitched a game, Schilling pitched the next day and then Johnson relieved him? That was amazing. If I had to trust anybody in the modern day to get the job done, it would be him when he was as good as he was on those two days.

Excellent Idea!

Now I can play my MVP 2004 without crying over my Pittsburgh Pirates dropping out of the Wild Card hunt despite picking up JD Drew at the deadline!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1969777
The Rocket wants 22 mil next season.......... wow

For all you MVP fans out there, Take Two is close to aquiring the MLB liscense that will prevent EA from making any MLB games after next season.

Coming from my absolute inability to make contact with the ball when Pedro pitches, I'll take Pedro in Rob's MVP challange.

Okay, we have Jobu's two million points on Pedro. The results coming soon to a QOTD/MYOR thread near you!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpNWZic251BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-dodgers-gagne&prov=ap&type=lgns
Gagne gets $19 million over 2 years from the Dodgers. COMN

Why would you not take the 1963 Koufax? He went up against much the same bunch of Yankees in 1963 and whipped them twice. After which, Yogi Berra said:

"Well, I can see how he won twenty-five games. What I don't see is how he lost five."

Besides, it's just the 1961 Yankees.

Trivia question: who actually led the American League in runs scored in 1961? Hint: it was not the New York Yankees...

Ooh, good question, Magpie. I looked it up, and my guess was wrong.

Turns out the answer's a real corker.

the answer's a real corker.

That'll be cash on the barrelhead, son...

While you're at it, some alkaline batteries.

who send Whitey (25-4) Ford to the Exhibition Stadium mound.

Well, as long as it's free pretzel night, you wont have to worry about facing Whitey anyways.

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/579/579209p1.html
For all you MVP fans out there, Take Two is close to aquiring the MLB liscense that will prevent EA from making any MLB games after next season.

Where'd you hear this? I remember reading (at the time of EA's NFL deal) that EA might try to get the exclusive rights to the MLB. I also read (COMN) that Take Two wants to negotiate longer licenses to the other sports (especially after losing football and ESPN in the same month), but I haven't read that Take Two wants to respond to EA by getting exclusive rights to the MLB.

the innings and durability comparison has nothing to do with the original post, as I'm sure either Johnson or Pedro could go nine if you were the manager and your life depended on winning. I think Johnson could pitch with two days rest for the whole season even in today's game and I base that solely on seeing pictures of the guy. He was huge. I don't think Pedro could've done that even in 1999/2000.

that being said, Pedro probably would've had insane strikeout numbers in the deadball era considering pitches like the spitball and shineball were legal then.

two other good choices would be 2002 Curt Schilling or 1968 Bob Gibson. Schilling is about as clutch as it gets and Gibson wasn't too shabby in 1968 despite it being a big pitcher's year.

Like I said I haven't looked at it, but off the top of my head I'd imagine strikeouts are easier to come by these days,

I didn't see this comment. Yeah hardly anyone struck out in those days. so 303 k's even if it's in 360 or so innings looks even better for Johnson.

http://sports.ign.com/articles/580/580468p1.html
6-4-3,

COMN for the article

Also EA nabbed the ESPN liscense for 15 years.

This sports videogame war is getting out of hand. The real loser is the consumer because they are going to get less options.

A 2004 DIPS study. Kerry Ligtenberg's DIPS ERA was 3.77.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1969913
Here's some of the arbitration numbers being exchanged,(comm),note Hillenbrands request.

re: the video games

That's BRUTAL, i love MVP its for sure my fav video game, no other baseball game compares. This is horrible news. Stupid companies, this has to stop.

The real loser is the consumer because they are going to get less options.

Less options or:
more games featuring the "Toronto Blue Birds", "Oakland B's" or "Florida Swordfish"...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5346&type=pitching&year=2004
I'll also point out Ron Villone's 2 year $4.2 million dollar contract extension. Looking at his numbers I imagine he'll probably be used best as a Loogy, much like Schoeneweis.

I'll also point out Ron Villone's 2 year $4.2 million dollar contract extension. Looking at his numbers I imagine he'll probably be used best as a Loogy, much like Schoeneweis.

Not that Villone is any great shakes but he does have a less pronounced platoon advantage than Schoeneweis. He has also been about a league average pitcher the past two seasons, much of that time as a starter.

OPS's over the past 3 seasons:
Villone: 671 vs LHB, 761 vs RHB
Schoeneweis: 589 vs LHB, 836 vs RHB

That's BRUTAL, i love MVP its for sure my fav video game, no other baseball game compares. This is horrible news. Stupid companies, this has to stop.

I thought MVP was the worst out of the console bunch. ESPN and MLB were better, and of course Out of the Park 6 for PC.

The FAN 590 is reporting that Hillenbrand has asked for $4.35 million in arbitration, the Jays have asked for $3.45.

How does arbitration work in MLB? Is it like the NHL where the arbitrator has to decide between one of the two numbers or can the arbitrator make up whatever number they want?

Is it like the NHL where the arbitrator has to decide between one of the two numbers

Bingo. Either 3.45 or 4.35.

http://ussmariner.com/index.php?p=2212
Chuck his 3 year splits aren't pronounced , but his 2004 numbers certainly are, .596 OPS vs.lefties, .760 vs. righties, which was the basis of my observation. He certainly should never be allowed to start. At any rate ,the boys at the Ancient Mariner are having a good discussion about this move.(comm)

Ooh, good question, Magpie. I looked it up, and my guess was wrong.

Turns out the answer's a real corker.

I would never have guessed which team scored the most runs in the AL in '61 without the clue. What I found interesting is that Rocky Colavito drew well over 100 walks that year, and was the second best hitter on the club. That's much less of a clue than Mike D's because before I looked it up, I wouldn't have known which team Colavito played for that year.

Is it like the NHL where the arbitrator has to decide between one of the two numbers

In the NHL the arbitrator doesn't pick a side, but rather picks a number himself based on the arguments presented by both sides.

As for the vids.....

I'm digging the presentation for ESPN's game. I love the new On Command Base running feature. Hopefully the game is only $29.99.

Whoops, guess I had it backwards. Nevermind.

Anybody know where to get service time for MLB players?

I don't think anyone's even mentioned Lefty Grove... but, someone should.

Hey, I'd take Grove, too. In 1931 he was 31-4 with a 2.06 ERA (league ERA was about 4.35) - another offensive explosion was in progress. And his post-season marks are OK, too: 4-2 with 1.75 ERA. In 1931 he beat St. Louis in Game 1, lost Game 3, but threw a five hitter in Game 6 to even up the Series. The Cards, as Coach will happily tell you, would win it in seven.

which team scored the most runs in the AL in '61

It's one of my favourites. The Tigers didn't get a whole lot of their SS, and they have practically never in the long history of the team, ever gotten much of their third basemen... but Norm Cash that year was basically Barry Bonds, and Rocky Colavito was... I dunno, Gary Sheffield? And Kaline and Jake Wood and even Billy Bruton all chipped in. And they outscored the Yankees 841-827.

Because the Yankees... well, they hit 240 HRs, which was 60 more than the Tigers. But there was never anybody on base. Only one team in the AL drew fewer walks than the Yankees, which is astonishing when you remember that Mickey Mantle was on that team. Mantle had 126 walks, and he was hitting behind Roger Maris, who drew 94 BB himself.

It boggles the mind to this day, but the Yankees leadoff hitter played every game, came to the plate more than 700 times, and scored 80 runs. Eighty. On-Base Percentage of .295.

And the guy hitting second played 153 games and scored 84 runs. (On-Base of .306).

And then came the two guys with 115 homers.

Pedro circa 2000 is the only reasonable choice for a starting pitcher if you want to live.

If it has to be a Jay I'd choose Halladay circa Sept 2003.

Bingo. Either 3.45 or 4.35.

Unless of course they settle ahead of time. Meeting halfway at $3.9 seems reasonable.

Herb Score... fictional tales of his brief greatness...

At the age of 23, after two seasons, he'd gone 16-10 and 20-9, with ERAs of 2.85 and 2.53, and he'd struck out 245 and 263 hitters. He walked a ton of guys, but he didn't give up any hits... he was basically a left-handed Nolan Ryan. Maybe better.

This afternoon I heard an "interview" of Roy Halladay on the Swirsky show on the Fan 590 (Swirsky, IMO couldn't interview a baseball player to save his life).

Some of Doc's comments were interesting, though.

He said he had been following the off-season closely and that he would not find the current Jays lineup easy to pitch to, as there are several hitters in a row he couldn't just pitch around.

He also said that the shoulder fatigue of last year might have been partly due to the 266 innings he pitched in 2003, but put it down more to continuing to work too hard in last year's off-season. He said that this off-season he has rested much more and hasn't thrown from a mound yet - he's been concentrating on long throwing to date.

Doc felt confident, especially given his last couple of starts in September, that he could return to form in 2005. He said that ideally he wouldn't pitch too many more than 200 innings this year.

Are all those picking Pedro (including me) factoring in that the Yankees are his daddy? That would seem to reduce the safety of the pick...Koufax might be safer.

One other comment Doc made about the current Jays lineup that I forgot above was that if he was pitching to them he would have to keep the ball off the plate, because anywhere near the plate and they would most likely make contact.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1961.shtml
The first thing I noticed on the 1961 Yankees was that Roger Maris was never intentionally walked, throughout the whole season.

Also, I asked my Dad (a fan at the time) to name the starting eight, and went nuts. "Yogi, Moose Skowron, Cletis Boyer, Bobby Richardson, Tony Kubek, Maris, Mantle, Elston." Will I be like that with the 2007 Blue Jays in 2051?

I would want the 1944 Bob Feller. Bob was in the Navy, so he never pitched that year. I would say, "Bob, you never had a chance to pitch when you were at your very best. I know how good you were. You're the man to save my life. Pitch that game."

The problem with Pedro is I keep remembering his falling apart after about 100 pitches over the past few years. If those 61 Yanks decide to take and make him work you'll have a near useless pitcher by the 7th or 8th inning and be toast.

That simply did not happen in 2000, John. Pedro was so brilliant in his prime that it *couldn't* happen, pretty much.

How about 1986 Mike Scott?

Maybe it was only cause I was an Astros fan in the early 90s, but reading about his year back then...I sort of pictured the lackluster Astros I knew and loved being guided to playoff glory on the arm of just one man

1997 Clemens. Me Grimlock LOVED it when he pitched. Pure tits.

Grimlock, when you use that phrase, you sound about nine years old.

Anyway, on to important/relevant things... Koufax!

He went up against much the same bunch of Yankees in 1963 and whipped them twice.

Yet another reason. I'm not arguing that my preference for Koufax is rational. It's purely instinctual.

I'VE GOT IT!

I'll ask Frank Lary. Why not? He's perfect!

Why?

Lary was terrific against the '61 Yankees. He started six times against them and went 4-2.

If you see a flaw in my plan, then you're just not a Tony LaRussa Certified SuperGenius. (TM).

The Tigers didn't get a whole lot of their SS, and they have practically never in the long history of the team, ever gotten much of their third basemen

And yet, one of the few teams to boast of a Hall of Fame 3B on their "All-Franchise Team" ... now, whether or not George Kell should be in Cooperstown is another issue entirely.

And more recently, Travis Fryman was an All-Star four or five times for the Motor City Kitties. So I think the dearth of third basemen you suggest is greatly exaggerated.

(Swirsky, IMO couldn't interview a baseball player to save his life).

Swirsky has enough difficulty just speaking conherently for more than 30 seconds at a time without sticking his foot firmly in his mouth.

I'll take Orel Hershiser from 1988 (in particular the playoffs)...he was unreal that year. The greatest pitching performance I have ever seen...except for any game that Mike Jeffcoat was in.

So I think the dearth of third basemen you suggest is greatly exaggerated.

Well, that's why I said "practically never" because Kell and Fryman actually were good players. But most of the time it's been from Don Werts and Tom Brookens to Enos Cabell all the way back the evil Moriarty.

Yeah, I have to go with Frank "Yankee-Killer" Lary(*) who went 23-11 against those same Yankees over a six-year span.

On Herb Score:

At the age of 23, after two seasons, he'd gone 16-10 and 20-9, with ERAs of 2.85 and 2.53, and he'd struck out 245 and 263 hitters. He walked a ton of guys, but he didn't give up any hits... he was basically a left-handed Nolan Ryan. Maybe better.

Yes, actually better. Ryan didn't put up numbers nearly as good as Score's two seasons until the strike year, when he was 34. Score's two best seasons are as good as Ryan's two best seasons, and he only had two seasons to choose from.

(*) Actual nickname