http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1952374
I posted this under the Woodward blog, but it really belongs here:

The following quote was taken from an article by Sean McAdam on ESPN.com (COMN):

Increased revenues: These differ from market to market, but one universal windfall is the new MLB/XM Satellite Radio deal which resulted in a payout of approximately $4 million to each franchise. That's not enough to land a marquee player, but it's not insignificant either and is a far greater sum than many franchises make with their own local radio rights.

Not even accounting for the increased revenue due to a better Canadian dollar, higher revenue sharing, and increased luxury tax payments. Why wasn't the Jays budget at least increase by $4 million?

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com/thestar/baseball/player.cgi?1380
On a smaller note, former minor league Jay, Bobby Estalella signed a minor league contract with Cincinnati. COMN

Over the past couple of years Rogers had made the following purchases:

- FAN590 (Jays radio broadcasters)
- 100% of Sportsnet Canada (Jays television broadcasters)
- 100% of the Jays (purchased remaining 20% from Interbrew and others)
- The Skydome

Is there anything left Jays related for Rogers to purchase? Do you think that they will start investing more in the Jays now? What is the game plan?

Why wasn't the Jays budget at least increase by $4 million?

Good bloody question.

Grand Funk out.

Is there anything left Jays related for Rogers to purchase?

We remain fiercely independent here at Batter's Box, despite the $43MM offer from Rogers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20041229.wrogers1229/BNStory/Business/
Pulling this from the old roundup......

COMN for the Globe article on Rogers buying out the minority share of Sportsnet.

Rogers has certainly leveraged their business more on the success of the team. It seems to me that with these moves that they are betting on themselves, which is encouraging (because if management doesn't believe in themselves why should anyone else?).

It does makes the skeptic in me wonder if they've intentionally driven down the value of businesses related to the team so they could scoop it up at deflated prices, or if that's just a coincidence.

It does makes the skeptic in me wonder if they've intentionally driven down the value of businesses related to the team so they could scoop it up at deflated prices, or if that's just a coincidence.

Reminds me of one of my favourite all-time movies...The Hudsucker Proxy.
The cynic in me is starting to wonder the same things, Pistol - thanks for bringing it up.

Grand Funk out.

Completely off-topic, COMN to hear Donovan McNabb singing 'Blue Christmas' to Terrell Owens.

http://www.extremeskins.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=banghaha&file=index
Or try this.

Our good friend Peter Gammons is reporting that a Randy Johnson to the Yankees deal is "98 percent done." Were we talking about being skeptical? Even if it happens, I'm not going to believe it until I see RJ in pinstripes. And even then I'm going to have to ponder long and hard if what I'm seeing is the real thing.

http://me.woot.net
GFR,

Please, for the love of all that is good, stop ending your posts with the phrase 'grand funk out.' Don't make me unvite you.

About a week or so ago, somebody posted bits of a scathing review of the Jays system from BA. Others couldn't find it on the BA site. Was anyone able to confirm the existence of it?

GFR, in case you were wondering, it's not just Joe.

I think somebody mentioned that it was only in the print version.

GFR - yah, please. But for the record, this ain't about the quality of your posts. Just imagine if I started every single one of my otherwise nobel laureate-quality posts with "D'oh!"

It might be funny or charming the first eight hundred times, but then ...

GFR, in case you were wondering, it's not just Joe.

Agreed.

Question for you guys: - I know that International TV rights are split among all the teams buy how does this work for the Jays? Does Rogers have to share broadcast revenue from Sportsnet? or is it a private network like YES that they can use to hide revenue?

About a week or so ago, somebody posted bits of a scathing review of the Jays system from BA. Others couldn't find it on the BA site. Was anyone able to confirm the existence of it?

I think it was Mike in CT. He said it was in the print version. It didn't make much sense because it basically seemed to contradict what BA has said in the past. For example, he said that BA had written that the Jays had overdrafted Purcey, but the following is from BA's pre-draft summary about Purcey:

From BA: He earned a reputation as a one-pitch pitcher who lacked consistency. Purcey started to shed that tag last summer in the Cape Cod League. His curveball and overall command are much improved, if still inconsistent. He also has answered questions about his mental toughness by showing first-round stuff every time out this spring. He's a vastly better pitcher in 2004, and Purcey has the best pure arm among lefthanders in the draft.

Doesn't sound like he was overdrafted. Also, BA was very positive about the 2002 and 2003 drafts, so giving the Jays system a poor rating doesn't make sense.

As long as I have to continually wade through the neverending reams of stupid 80's music references, then the 'Grand Funk out' will continue.
If you don't like it, don't read it.
For chrissakes, grow up all of you.

Thank you for not ending your last post with Grand Funk Out! See now, that wasn't so hard!

As for GFRisms - put me in the don't care pile.

What is more important is should GFR be allowed to post as GFR unless he really is GFR :-)

Of all the things in the world to complain about...

Tyler out.

Of all the things in the world to complain about...

My thoughts exactly.
It's like a goddamn knitting circle in here sometimes.
Old ladies with nothing to complain about, so they find things to complain about.

GRAND FUNK OUT.

the neverending reams of stupid 80's music references

No one using "Grand Funk Railroad" as a handle should risk any kind of musical commentary whatsoever... :-)

giving the Jays system a poor rating doesn't make sense.

Probably just one guy's opinion.

No one using "Grand Funk Railroad" as a handle should risk any kind of musical commentary whatsoever... :-)

Actually Grand Funk were a pretty tight little rock outfit until their one hit saturated the air waves of patriotism. When CD's replaced Lp's I didn't replace my GFR. Perhaps I might get down to the basement today and dig out a copy of GFR Live and give it a spin in solidarity.

Lefty ..., ah never mind.:)

Does Rogers have to share broadcast revenue from Sportsnet? or is it a private network like YES that they can use to hide revenue?

There's an amount that a cable network will pay to the team for the rights to broadcast the games (even if it's owned by the same people). That amount is included in the team's revenue, and is supposed to be at 'market value'. Any amounts made by the broadcast aren't shared.

No one using "Grand Funk Railroad" as a handle should risk any kind of musical commentary whatsoever... :-)

Magpie,

Here's a fun game to play on a Thursday afternoon.
First, hit pause on 'Star Wars', brush the Cheetos crumbs out of your beard, get off you Mom's couch.
Go find your dictionary.
Look up the word 'SATIRE'.

*Note to self: Add Magpie to the ever-growing list of Bauxites with NO sense of humour.*

* Another note to self: Add LEFTY to the somewhat smaller list of Bauxites with a well-developed sense of humour.*

I think GFR's signature after each comment gives him a little character.

If everyone had something as unique as this, it would help create and easily identify the personalities on this site, especially for those who don't check the authors name each time they read a comment. JMO.

* Another note to self: Add DeMarco to the same list.*

I hoist my glass to you, DeMarco.

Grand Funk out.

*Note to self: Add Magpie to the ever-growing list of Bauxites with NO sense of humour.*

Oooh.. oooh... I wanna be on the list!

Honestly, why would you want to hang out with people you don't like, in real life or on the Internets? I admit some of us can be stupid and mean sometimes (well, mostly me), but I still can't figure out why people would continue to visit a place full of people that they felt were jerks, particularly when there's over 30 other sites to visit on the Intarweb. Like Timecube and Oolong the Pancake Balancing Rabbit. Oh, and some site about economics though that one is arguably full of jerks as well.

Honestly, why would you want to hang out with people you don't like, in real life or on the Internets?

That's a pretty sad commentary in itself, Moffatt.
I'm here for the subject mattetr, not for the people.

Grand Funk out.

If it wasnt for all the grammar, spelling and posting strategy people, someone might mistake this plays for a jays fan site.

Regardless of our personalities and whether we like it or not, everyone that comes here has something in common, and that is baseball.

To steal a line from Feild of dreams, 'If you build it, they will come', you built this web site for baseball and about baseball, and now you're confused why people have come here. Did you want a site for public opinion which everyone can enjoy or something private to be shared among only close friends?

now you're confused why people have come here.

I'm not at all confused why people come here. I'm confused why someone who disliked most of the posters would continue to visit. Unless you think everyone dislikes the majoity of the posters, which would seem rather schizophrenic.

Hey sweat your spelling was bad, your grammar was poor, and you forgot to sign out!!
sweat

No one using "Grand Funk Railroad" as a handle should risk any kind of musical commentary whatsoever

What, you didn't think that was funny?

Add Grand Funk Railroad to the ever-growing list...

So ya...anyways...anything out in the baseball world that we can worry about? You know, other than how someone ends their posts. I'd hate to see what's a big issue in someone's life who worries about things like this.

Any news on the RJ/Vasquez trade? Any news on the Jays signing another bat? I noticed that last year on MVP Baseball the rosters were updated up to Jan 15th, so wouldn't this mean that most of the rosters were pretty accruate by that time?

When do pitchers and catchers have to report?

I'm confused why someone who disliked most of the posters would continue to visit

Because of the subject matter. You don't have to like the people just the subject.

That being said, I hope no one takes this to mean that I dislike anyone here, that would be false.

Any news on the RJ/Vasquez trade? Any news on the Jays signing another bat? I noticed that last year on MVP Baseball the rosters were updated up to Jan 15th, so wouldn't this mean that most of the rosters were pretty accruate by that time?

Well, there was the A-Rod for Soriano deal last February. :)

Me Ryan C thinks all the fun and crazy stuff that goes on here is quite enjoyable and that it gives the place character. 80's music references, fun handles, correcting peoples grammar, talkin' economix, the whole shebang. If I just wanted to find out what the news was and nothing more I would check espn or rotoworld or somesuch. I love all the little side discussions that go on here, makes it seem more like a community. Except "Too Many Molinas", that has to stop ;) Ryan C out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1954122
News on the RJ/Vazquez deal, as requested.

I always enjoyed that Me Grimlock guy. Where is he at these days? I wish people would worry as much about the Blue Jays as they do about the people who post here.

Look, we all know there's only one band with "Grand" in it that deserves mention here, there, or anywhere: Grandmaster Flash.

On the issue of hanging out with people you disklike, here's a funny anecdote. (Really, it's good, keep reading! It's worth it.)

Anyhoo, one of my best friends in college was a filmic writer at USC and knew the person (Helen Childress) who wrote "Reality Bites," and also the people she based the characters on. Well, my friend couldn't stand the writer or the people, especially Ethan Hawke's character, but naturally she still forked over the money to see the movie. Afterwards, she told me, "I hated these people in college, please tell me why I paid $8 to see them in a movie." See? It's human nature to be miserable, and what better way to do that than hanging out with people you loathe?

And when the Yankees sign Carlos Beltran, and send their payroll to $220 million or something silly, I will be rooting for the Yankees to win 147 games, just to make all of Major League Baseball look absolutely silly for letting something this ridiculous happen. Bravo, MLB. Bravo.

Next year's lineup: Jeter, Beltran, Rodriguez, Sheffield, Matsui, Williams, T.Martinez/Ja.Giambi, Posada, Womack

Rotation: Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Brown, Wright

Bullpen: Rivera, Sturtze, Stanton, Quantrill and one or two more.

How can you not love them?

... out.

Excellent post, Gitz.

I wish people would worry as much about the Blue Jays as they do about the people who post here.

I cry myself to sleep every night just thinking about them.

You're always going to go through periods like this where pretty much nothing is happening. We've had numerous conversations about who they should sign, who they should trade for, what the budget should be, what's gone wrong this off-season (and what's gone right). If there's a topic or something we missed, why not bring it up and start a new conversation?

If there's a topic or something we missed, why not bring it up and start a new conversation?

There is nothing new, let's get back to fighting with each other.

You're always going to go through periods like this where pretty much nothing is happening. We've had numerous conversations about who they should sign, who they should trade for, what the budget should be, what's gone wrong this off-season (and what's gone right). If there's a topic or something we missed, why not bring it up and start a new conversation?

Well, wouldn't this be your job? I'm just looking for some content. My kingdom for some content.

Regardless of whether or not there is any news, I still find it fun to speculate!

That being said, what do you think our chances of landing Beltran are? :)

Well, wouldn't this be your job?

Yes, and I'm earning every damn penny I'm paid. :)

Yes, and I'm earning every damn penny I'm paid. :)

LOL. Me too.

You don't have to like the people

Better yet, you don't even have to know the people before you get all hot and bothered about them...

For the record, I don't care how GFR ends his posts. Either he says something interesting or he doesn't.

If I was using... oh, I dunno... "Duran Duran" as a handle - well, I'd expect to be teased about it from time to time. (In fact, I think I'd deserve it, but just my opinion.) No need to be a humourless prig about it.

I think GFR was trying to insult someone, but seeing as how I'm not much of a Star Wars guy, don't like Cheetos, don't have a beard, and my Mom's couch is some 1500 miles away I figure it couldn't have been me.

Any news on the Jays signing another bat?

The picking are getting really, really slim. There isn't that much left once you get past Beltran and Delgado. There's Ordonez, but he almost certainly wants too much money. The Yankees will probably end up with Sierra and Tino Martinez. The other suspects include:

Carlos Baerga
Tony Batista
Danny Bautista
Jermony Burnitz
Tony Clark
Brad Fullmer
Juan Gonzalez
Ben Grieve
Brian Jordan
John Olerud

None of these guys fills me with confidence, but if I had to take a flyer on one it would be Juan-Gone. He made $ 4 million last year, and he obviously won't get that again. He'll have to settle for a Wade Mille type deal with lots of incentives. You can stick him at DH and hope he doesn't hurt himself.

Any other suggestions?

But seriously, it's almost eerily quiet (go ahead and blast my spelling someone)on the Jays front.....almost too quiet.

Whatever J.P. has been working on lately, he's sure doing a good job keeping it under raps.

Magpie,

I think that Juan would be the most likely out of that group, but I'd be surprised if we don't pick someone up via the trade route. Mike Sweeney anyone?

There is nothing new, let's get back to fighting with each other.

Tee-hee. (What, you don't think the Roberto to St. Louis rumour is a big deal?)

And when the Yankees sign Carlos Beltran, and send their payroll to $220 million

But suppose they do that, and trade for Randy Johnson. And then they don't win the WS? Then what happens? I mean, after Steinbrenner's head explodes....

I figure they'll go after Barry.

Next year's lineup: Jeter, Beltran, Rodriguez, Sheffield, Matsui, Williams, T.Martinez/Ja.Giambi, Posada, Womack
Rotation: Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Brown, Wright
Bullpen: Rivera, Sturtze, Stanton, Quantrill and one or two more.

If the Yanks sign Beltran and trade for the Unit, every single person on the roster will be an expensive free agent except one: Tanyon Sturtze.

"One of these things is not like the others" ...

I think that Juan would be the most likely out of that group, but I'd be surprised if we don't pick someone up via the trade route. Mike Sweeney anyone?

I don't know about Sweeney, but I would imagine there's a bunch of trades being discussed where the Jays are adding salary.

What teams are looking on cutting payroll? Doesn't seem like too many these days. The Dodgers, maybe. Who else? I'd love it if the Jays could get Wilkerson from the Ex-Spos, but I can't picture that happening. That's not based on any sort of analysis; as an Expos fan I just really like Wilkerson.

Mike Sweeney anyone?

He's not yet a 10 & 5 guy, although he may have no-trade rights in his contract. (He actually had a "You Must Trade Me" clause if the Royals didn't get above .500 by 2004, but that is No Longer Operative.)

The real problem with Sweeney is that contract. (Plus he has back p[roblems too.) But his contract has three more years to run at $11 million a year. I imagine the Royals would love to unload it right about now.

http://me.woot.net
But suppose they do that, and trade for Randy Johnson. And then they don't win the WS? Then what happens?

NEW YORK--With a week to go before pitchers and catchers report for spring training, the New York Yankees shored up their pitching, hitting, and defense Monday by signing every player in professional baseball.

(Sadly, the Onion no longer maintains a free archive of all their issues, but this appeared in their issue of 5 February 2003.)

I see the Jays having a big holes at 1B, Catcher and LF/DH. As it stands their linep-up would look something like the following:

Johnson LF
Catalanotto - DH
Koskie - 3rd
Wells - CF
Hinske - 1B
Myers - C
Rios - RF
Adams - SS
Hudson - 2nd

If this is the case, I would rather Gross be the everyday LFer, and Quiroz given the catchers job.

However I fully expect that JP has a few trade ideas on the go, and the aswers will come via trades rather than free agents.

I have also noticed that there is no room for Hill, Adams and Hudson, one of them will eventually be gone. Unless you think Hill or Adams will end up in the outfield or 1B.

Nobody answered the pitchers & catchers reporting question, I'm guessing you guys just missed it, b/c I know you know! haha

I realize that trades happened after the Jan 15 deadline that easports had for MVP. But most of the teams were up to date when the game come out. The Jays were totally up to date.

For the record I'd like to see the Jays go after Juan Guan for a 1 year incentive contract, why not? You got money to spend, and it ties up nothing for the future.

http://www.bluejayscheerclub.com
Dr. Prison Fence to show up on the Fan within the hour, and Ryan C:

You can never have Too Many Molinas! ;)

Jobu Ou---er... I mean... That's all I have to say for now.

Wow. This is nothing new or revealing, but unless Hinkse remembers how to hit for power, the Jays will really be hurting for power from the 1B/DH spots. Maybe J.P.'s targeting Calvin Pickering? That would be a fine player to take a flier on, and I would think he could be had cheaply.

I have also noticed that there is no room for Hill, Adams and Hudson, one of them will eventually be gone. Unless you think Hill or Adams will end up in the outfield or 1B.

My guess is that Hudson would be the one to go. Probably no time soon, though, as the Jays would probably want a better idea if both Hill and Adams are the real deal.

That's what made the Koskie signing so weird, as the Jays already had a bunch of non-1B infielders to work with.

What teams are looking on cutting payroll? Doesn't seem like too many these days. The Dodgers, maybe.

Especially if they can't dump Shawn Green and his $16 million contract. But I don't see a match for the Blue Jays on the Dodger roster. You'd need to get a third team involved.

Atlanta is usually looking to dump salary (the last few years anyway.) But I would think they're beating the bushes for bats as well; either that, or they have expect several of their (very promising, I grant you) hitting propspects to step up next year.

I believe the first day "injured players, pitchers and catchers may be invited to attend spring training workouts" is February 13. But I could be wrong. By a day or so...

But suppose they do that, and trade for Randy Johnson. And then they don't win the WS? Then what happens?

That's just the thing. This is a team built for the regular season ... everyone seems to forget that the Yankees won the AL East last year, so it's not like they need to get a whole lot better. You can make a case that even without Beltran, the Yankees have had a better offseason than the Red Sox -- the THT Exiles guys had this conversation.

But anything can happen in a short series. The Yankees could go 120-42, seriously, but lose to Detroit in the first round of the playoffs if Dmitri Young and Pudge Rodriguez get hot at the same time.

While I really like Brad Wilkerson and others mentioned like Durazo and Aubrey Huff, I think the Jays need to add a right-handed power hitter. As it stands they have Wells, Rios and Johnson as right-handed starters (one of which shouldn't be a starter. Therefore Sweeney isn't a bad idea, if they only have to pay a portion of the contract.

I would also take a chance on Juan Gon, but that would be a last resort.

On a smaller note, former minor league Jay, Bobby Estalella signed a minor league contract with Cincinnati.

you know, IMNSHO, the Reds are having a hell of an offseason, relative to their division mates and may be a huge surprise next season.

Yes, I am serious about this. Discuss.

Another possibility is Koskie moving to first base when Hill is ready. Koskie is still a fine defensive third baseman, but he's over 30 and it might reduce the wear on his body if he moves across the diamond.

Like Moffatt said, there's no reason to make decisions about this pleasant problem now.

Eric Milton says the reason he chose Cincinnati is because of their offseason moves. They've added Ramon Ortiz, Ben Weber, David Weathers, Kent Mercker, Joe Randa, Eric Milton and now Bobby Estalella.

http://www.springtrainingonline.com/teams/toronto_blue_jays_4.htm
Spring training just 2 months away...well games that is...COMN

Can't wait.

But seriously, it's almost eerily quiet (go ahead and blast my spelling

Damn you, Pumped. You're making fewer typos than I am. Cut it out.

the Reds are having a hell of an offseason

Well, their offense was middle of the pack last year, but the pitching (and defense) - was not so good. Not to put too fine a point on it, it was mind-numbingly bad. The only team in the majors that gave up more runs plays half their games at Coors Field.

So they add Joe Randa to put an end up to the revolving door at 3B. Alas, they can't move Ken Griffey to 1B, but Wily Mo is an awfully nice fourth outfielder. They'll need one. They resign Paul Wilson, trade for Ramon Ortiz, sign FAs Eric Milton and a swarm of relievers (Weathers, Mercker, Weber).

I'm not wild about Ortiz and Milton, but if they're even league-average it'll be a major improvement on what they were running out there last year.

Elsewhere in the division... the Cubs have lost Matt Clement and seem entirely pre-occupied with resolving the Sammy Sosa situation. And vowing to offer upon their first-born unto seven generations in exchange for the good health of Prior and Wood.

The Astros are waiting on Carlos. And Roger. Who is waiting on Carlos. Who is waiting on...

The Cardinals have replaced Woody Williams with Mark Mulder. This has a chance to be an upgrade. Alas, they have also replaced Edgar Renteria with David Eckstein. This has no chance of being an upgrade, although I like Eckstein a lot myself. They seem to be contemplating replacing Tony Womack with Roberto Almoar. This actually has a chance to be an upgrade, but not a major one. I'd be a little worried about counting on Edmunds and Walker to hit like they did last year or simply stay healthy...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1955906
Yankees, D-Backs Agree on RJ Trade (COMN)

I'm not going to start a separate thread this time because of what happened last time. This is on ESPN.com (BBRRS = sheet rock) quoting "major league sources" and Peter Gammons (BBRRS = mystery meat and tapioca, respectively) ... but if this is true, it's better for the Yankees than the original deal in that they give up Halsey rather than Eric Duncan -- but they don't get a Kaz Ishii in return this time.

but they don't get a Kaz Ishii in return this time

They'll have to find a $5MM 7th starter somewhere else now.

Pistol, that would be Kevin Brown -- if only that was all he cost!

SportsNation is running an RJ/Yankees-related poll right now, and I found the evenness if these two results particularly interesting I I personally voted with the majority in the first and the minority in the second):

Is George Steinbrenner good for baseball?
50.1% Yes
49.9% No

What does baseball need more?
50.8% A salary cap
49.2% Other owners willing to put a larger percentage of profits back into the team

I think GFR's signature after each comment gives him a little character.

I agree. I always notice posts from the Funk. Grimlock too.

It's hard to believe there are complaints about people's sigs... although the format here is a little different, signatures are pretty standard in forums.

They'll have to find a $5MM 7th starter somewhere else now.

Paging Mr Loaiza...paging Mr Loaiza....

Actually, Esteban was their number eight starter last year (in terms of number of starts made anyway.)

It looks like the Jays will most likely be under budget this year. There's hardly anyone worth spending it on. With the excess cash I suggest that it might be worth spending some extra bucks in signing more high-priced prospects on the international market. It's the kind of thing you can do a one-off on. You can always revert back to a more cost consciuos approach in 2006.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=cp-bbl_jays_new_year&prov=cp&type=lgns
COMN for an interesting article on how the Jays can't wait until 2004 is over, a rough year for the Jays. JP doesn't sound to hot about the future either towards the bottom of the article.

I'm can't wait until MVP and ESPN MLB gets released.

I know I'll be getting MVP for free and I hope ESPN drops it's price to $30.

I'm digging the teaser trailers for both games.

Ron, how are you getting MVP for free? Do you get it early too?

I found a different list of features, some same, but a couple different...

Read the Pitch with the EA SPORTS™ Hitter's Eye - An all-new visual indicator allows the hitter to pick up the pitch the moment it leaves the pitcher's hand. Admire a sweet swing or learn from your mistakes with an all-new enhanced replay that details, analyzes, and provides unprecedented feedback on your last swing.

Own the Plate - Change your position in the box to adjust to what the pitcher is throwing you, or keep the defense honest with a drag bunt.

Precision Pitching - Paint the corners or send a message with the Precision Pitch Meter, or catch runners napping with unprecedented pickoff control.

Big Play Control Reaches a Whole New Level - Make an underhand toss to the pitcher as he covers first, slide around a tag at home, and make user-controlled stretches and dives. While leading off base, exercise your reflexes by beating pickoff throws with an all-new leadoff control.

Build an Empire - Control every aspect of your organization in all-new Owner mode. Create your line-up based on player progression during Spring Training, or help build player attributes by completing in a variety of different mini-games.

All-New Create Ballpark Feature - In Owner mode, build a pitcher's paradise or a hitter's dream. Will you spend your earnings to upgrade your ballpark or to sign that key free agent who could bring you a championship?

The Minor Leagues Expand - Single A squads and additional stadiums have been added to round out the list of teams available in the MLB farm system.

Take Your Game Online - Run the bases against the best online players-anytime, anywhere. With new quick tournaments and alerts for important EA SPORTS™ Online events, see if you can earn badges and trophies to help jump levels in your online career.

http://me.woot.net
although the format here is a little different

Thanks for noticing; it's the reason we exist.

signatures are pretty standard in forums.

*deep breath*

Batter's Box Is Not A Forum.

(Although it gets closer and closer every day. Sigh.)

*Sigh*

Are people really complaining about others signatures? Are you serious? Wow it must be a REALLY slow off-season if that's what it's come to. GFR, I'll say this, stick with the sig... I like it and I'm sure the majority of the posters here either like it or really could care less. And I agree with Smirnoff... WHERE'S ME GRIMLOCK?!?!

Oh, and Smirnoff... a certain Woody Paige Fan says what's up. How's it goin bro!

I had the pleasure of hearing Suzyn Waldman interview Tracy Ringolsby today. Needless to say the year can't end fast enough.

JP was also on with Suzyn and Eddie Coleman, but the only part I caught was JP telling them that Delgado won't be missed as a clubhouse leader.

Braby,

That article suggests that the deal for Lee was close. Just think...if the Jays had been able to land Clement before Boston and Anaheim had got involved....there's a good chance we'd have both Clement AND Lee right now.

Sigh!!!

All I can do now is hope that J.P. swings a deal for Sweeney.

Batter's Box Is Not A Forum.

Wellll ... in the most basic rhetorical sense, certainly it is. But in the technial/internet sense of the word, no, it's not. (nothin' like a litte intra-roster nitpickiness here.) Of course, still another member of the roster insists that Batter's Box is not a blog -- and in the most literal sense of the self-defined blogosphere, it's not that either, even though it's in the name of the site.

As many of you know, one of the (there is no) Cabal suggested a while back that Batter's Box is a Pena. And that's a nice definition, except in converstation, nobody knows what it means.

I've taken to referring to Da Box as an interactive online magazine ... sort of like THT, but with the added bonus (most of the time) of realtime feader feedback.

Speaking of THT, this may be the best thing I've read all year.

"Ron, how are you getting MVP for free? Do you get it early too?"

My cousin's a manager at EA Burnaby. I get my EA games for free because of her.

there's a good chance we'd have both Clement AND Lee right now.

So that must imply that if we signed Clement, there was less need for Batista, and therefore allowed us to use him for trade bait.

I may just be confused, but wouldn't we rather have a void at 4/5th starter, instead at DH?

I've been hoping someone would report on what Rob Neyer said about the Koskie signing. There's a Dec. 26 Insider piece on ESPN.com in which he discusses the five worst and best FA signings of the off season, and because the link comes up in the Jays clubhouse, I figured that meant the Jays were discussed.

Anyone with a subscription willing to fill the rest of us in?

So that must imply that if we signed Clement, there was less need for Batista, and therefore allowed us to use him for trade bait.

Just to recall, before Lee went to the Brewers for Podsednik and Vizciano it was rumoured the Batista and Hinske were Sox bound for Crede and Lee.

So yes, Batista was being dangled as trade bait. I wish the Blue Jays could have made that deal or something similar. Lee is set to make $8 million this year and the team has an 8.5 option for 2006.

If JP ever steps in Da Box again I would like to hear some of insider details on why this deal could not be completed. My guess is the White Sox liked the idea of taking on Podsednik for something in the region of $1million per and get a leadoff hitter instead of being saddled with Hinske's contract.

Anyone else think JP is sounding awfully pessimistic these days? Reading between the lines (not so subtly), it sounds to me as though he isn't particularly enjoying being a GM. This is just based on the occasional quotes I read or hear, but some themes seem to be recurring--it may be a long time before we start winning, it's a tough job, I want to spend more time with my family, etc. Not exactly what you want to hear from your (relatively) new GM.

I think JP is basically setting very low expectations for this year. He wants to improve asap, however he doesn't want to set anyone up for disappointment. Don't forget that high expectations for 2004 made the year look even worse.

That article by Treder was awesome.

'I've been hoping someone would report on what Rob Neyer said about the Koskie signing. There's a Dec. 26 Insider piece on ESPN.com in which he discusses the five worst and best FA signings of the off season, and because the link comes up in the Jays clubhouse, I figured that meant the Jays were discussed. '

He says that Koskie is potentially around the 10th best third baseman in baseball and that it has a chance to be a good deal. He actually only comes up with four good deals (Nomar, Koskie, Miller, Todd Walker).

Thanks for noticing; it's the reason we exist.

Yes, I noticed things are a little different here. You take the good with the bad, and Da Box is mostly good. Thanks for the affirmation, Joe. That was swell of you.

*deep breath*

Batter's Box Is Not A Forum.

How dramatic.

Soooo, it's not a forum. It's just, ummmm, you know, a place where people who are interested in discussing baseball news and analysis from a Canadian perspective gather.

Not a forum at all.

Joe, I strongly recommend you read the ground rules. They link to Craig's "What Is This Place" entry.

This is my favourite part:

"but unlike a magazine, people congregate here and talk. It's not just one-way communication. It's more of a forum for discussion."

Look, the bottom line is somebody got called out for having a simple, non-obscene "sign off".

Think about it.

Stop Hating on Funk.

Seriously more power to him if his 'sig' annoys some uptight people.

somebody got called out for having a simple, non-obscene "sign off".

Not exactly. Someone responded to a request that actually had the word "please" in it by throwing insults left, right, and centre...

Anyone else think JP is sounding awfully pessimistic these days?

I definitely agree, but you know what? I dont blame him at all. The Jays just came off one of their worst seasons in recent memory where they finished last in the division, the Yankees and Red Sox are seemingly acquiring more free agents every day, and the free agent market in general has gone insane this year. Not to mention that there were at least two significant deaths in the Blue Jay "family" this quarter. I cant blame a guy for wanting to get a little perspective on things after that.

Anyone know if JP lives in Toronto?

Tyler, I think JP brings his family up here for the summers and spends the winters in New England. I would imagine he gets to spend more time with his family than the average working father, with a 6-month off-season and all.

As for all the squabbling that goes on here, though it rings on the level of high school girls on reality TV, keep it up! It's great entertainment! I saw those back-to-back signatures of GFR with widening grin knowing as I scrolled down: "oh uh, he's gonna get it!" Boy did he ever. The documented spaz-outs here rival road rage. Even Spencer Fordin is caught frothing at the mouth. All this conflict is rooted in hyper-sensitivity and misunderstanding: precisely the formula that kept "Three's Company" in primetime for nearly a decade.

So, yes, people come here to read about baseball. But I wouldn't bet against the reality-entertainment factor accounting for the accumulating hits.

Anybody going to Dunedin this spring?

Batter's Box Is Not A Forum.

If it was a forum, you'd be able to turn signatures off ;) Well, you could that with a rudimentary account system built into a blog interface too, if that's what you prefer.

Gosh, Keith, you are SUCH a jerk sometimes.

Look, I'm gonna start writing my name on the peanut butter jar with this big black marker and if you take any, you can either put money in the Batter's Box community shopping fund or else you can just go kill yourself! I don't care! Gosh darn it! You big meanie! You are SUCH a Ligtenberg!

Tyler, I think JP brings his family up here for the summers and spends the winters in New England. I would imagine he gets to spend more time with his family than the average working father, with a 6-month off-season and all.

That's what I was hinting at Keith...thanks for the answer to the question. I don't really get JP's oft-mentioned angst at not seeing his family as much as he'd like. Everyone makes choices in life-I'm sure he could be a teacher or something if he really wanted to have constant exposure to his family.

I'm sure he could be a teacher or something if he really wanted to have constant exposure to his family.

I assume you're kidding about this, or else the educational system in Canada is so wildly different in Canada than in the U.S. that my time teaching junior high, high school and college simply doesn't relate to the Canadian experience.

http://me.woot.net
As the child of two elementary/highschool teachers, I can attest that being a teacher does give you more exposure to your family than, say, an average white-collar job. You generally live closer to work (since you can live in the suburbs and still be within walking distance); your hours tend to match up fairly well with your childrens'; you get ~2 months off every year, and your children get those same 2 months off; etc.

It's hard to say whether J.P. would get more or less time with his children than a teacher. But it's not inconcievable that a teacher ends up with an equal or greater total number of minutes with his or her children.

I assume you're kidding about this, or else the educational system in Canada is so wildly different in Canada than in the U.S. that my time teaching junior high, high school and college simply doesn't relate to the Canadian experience.

I'm not kidding at all-my mom's a teacher. My point is that there seem to have been a couple of comments from JP about how tough it is being a GM, in terms of time spent away from your family. I can sympathize with that-I'd like to see my own family more, but as a result of choices I've made, it doesn't happen as much as I'd like. I suspect a GM sees his family (if he locates them in the same city) a hell of a lot more than a scout does. It's not intended as a slur against teachers at all, but as far as white collar jobs go, you see your family a hell of a lot more than you otherwise would. My dad's a lawyer, and I've seen the flip side of that coin.

Stop Hating on Funk.
Seriously more power to him if his 'sig' annoys some uptight people.

Amen, brother.
I'm sick of this bloody elitest cabal.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...this is a bloody BASEBALL website, folks. Not life and death.
And YES, I agree that this IS a forum.
Stop getting your knickers in a knot, CABAL.

I also stick by my earlier comment from the day.
1. I come here for the subject matter, not the contributors.
2. Magpie needs to take a deep breath.
3. Ditto for Moffatt.

The fact that some of you dolts turned this whole 'signature thing' into a fiasco should do some looking in the mirror. The question is, "Am I guily of using a stupid signature." Yes. Absolutely. Guilty as charged.
But are some of you Cabal members guilty of being uptight, elitest, superior, condascending? Absolutely, and it's sickening.

GRAND FUNK OUT.

Stop getting your knickers in a knot,

Well, yeah. Good idea.

I said nothing about your sig, GFR. Nothing. In fact I specifically said that I don't care, and I don't. I don't care whether you sign yourself "Grand Funk Out" or "Ring-a-Ding-Ding" or "Thaasss All Folks" or "Czar of All the Russians."

And if someone signed their name as "Master of Space and Time" I'd probably giggle.

I did make a crack about your handle, and your knickers practically imploded.

I'm sorry about that. Didn't think you'd be so sensitive. Now I know.

What can I say - I lived through the 70s and I've already seen the Abba revival. Mark Farner's band is one of many many other 70s relics that I'm not so nostalgic about. (Although for all I know, you could take your handle from the Railroad and not the band.)

We actually do not have instruments sensitive enough to measure how little I care about this sort of stuff...

And I can appreciate that you might have felt a little Under Siege and ganged up on. And not in the mood to take a joke. I understand that.

But yelling and screaming at everybody else to lighten up? Hollering at everybody who doesn't seem to agree with you to look in a mirror?

GFR:

You should scroll back to where this all started. Did you miss Magpie's little smiley? He made a joke that apparently you took really, really seriously.

As to the It's A Forum / It's Not A Forum thing: Joe is talking about the way that things on the internet explicitly called Forums pretty much all descend into a kind of hell of flamewar, gigantic signatures and garbage, where the number of posts you make is the most important thing. We spend a lot of time trying not to let that happen here. As such, it pains Joe to see Batter's Box called the same name as those places.

Entertaining reading here. Still, I hope it gets back to baseball.

Speaking of which, Koskie as a top signing? I hope so, but 3 years is one too many imo (plus a 4th year option which will probably occur as it is based on playing time iirc). Still, given what we are seeing this winter (JD Drew for 5 years? What drugs are they on?) it is probably good in comparison.

JP being down on the Jays? Probably due to the budget headaches he is dealing with. The Jays should be a $60 million team this season with the $4 million US via satelite radio and the rise in the Canadian dollar and with the Jays buying Skydome and gaining 100% control of Sportsnet. But instead he is told to stay within an inflation adjustment of his budget for last year. Thus he loses his big slugger, can't get more than one free agent (a Canadian signing for a Canadian discount) to sign here, and is limited in trade negotiations. I suspect he is learning that what he was promised when he signed is not what he is getting now. If I was him I'd be pissed too. Doesn't stop me from cheering on the Jays and enjoying the games, but it is frustrating.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1104447014830&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064
A good article on Rogers and Sportsnet. COMN

http://me.woot.net
NFH got it exactly right.

As someone who's utterly unconcerned about corporate hegemony, I really hope Rogers uses this "corporate synergy" to benefit us as Jays fans. Greater Jays exposure and coverage, perhaps laying down a corporate edict that all employees must at least attempt to learn a bit about the game (Mr. Sunglasses On The Radio, I am looking at you); the possibilities are endless. Maybe, just maybe, 2005 will be the turning point for this franchise.

A good article on Rogers and Sportsnet.

Indeed, and all of this suggests that it is very much in Rogers' interest to make the necessary investment to improve the baseball team.

I wonder if the preceding flurry of activity had an impact on the club budget - watching the corporate cash flow, etc? Do the economists among us wish to weigh in on the matter?

Just curious: Assuming the RJ for Vazquez + $$ deal goes through, what happens to the $$ when AZ trades Javy away? Do they still keep the cash, or does it follow Vazquez to his new team?

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/one-batter-pitchers/
Studes has a very interesting (and profoundly depressing) study at the use of one-batter relief pitchers: i.e. bringing in a LOOGy to face one guy and bringing in someone else for the next hitter.COMN

I say depressing because it looks like the strategy is extremely effective. Which means it isn't going away anytime soon.

What's the deal with people like A-Rod and RJ? Don't they realize that a World Championship with the NY Yankees is a cheap accomplishment nobody really cares about? Does Roger Clemens go down as a great World Champion? Absolutely not. Jack Morris is a great World Champion, Curt Schilling is a great World Champion, Orel Hersishiser is a great World Champion.

I guess RJ has already proved himself with Arizona. But I think his final resume would look better with a final World Championship with LA, SF, StL, anyone except the Yankees.

Going to the Yankees to win a World Championship is like going to the zoo to see a polar bear instead of the Arctic.

The cash and Vazquez are separate from each other.

What I'm curious about is how the cash the Yankees give is treated. Is it a part of their payroll, and if so is it all lumped in this season, or is it spread out over the remainder of Vazquez's contract?

BTW, I nominate NFH as the Batter's Box Dr. Phil.

Nice one.

Studes piece is over at the Hardball Times, which I was planning to actually type before my fingers rushed on, out of my control.

Only one team used the one-batter reliever less than the Blue Jays. Thank you for that, Messrs Tosca and Gibbons.

Magpie, where that R/LOOGY study falls apart for me:

there were 1,028 occasions in which a reliever appeared for just one recorded plate appearance

The stats that follow could be for guys who get the job done with that one batter. If he pulls a Ligtenberg and firest the next pitch to the backstop, does the manager take him out, revealing his strategy utterly failed? Or, if the new pitcher gives up a Terry Adams-esque grand slam and it no longer matters who's pitching?

Really, we can't know for sure when a manager puts a reliever in whether he has the intention of the pitcher being a R/LOOGY or not. That's what warps those stats and makes it look successful. Think of Pee Wee Herman: "I meant to do that!"

I think Studes' study shows that it's a really bad strategy. Think about it:

The average team OOGY use leads to hitters going 4 for 31 with 3 walks. If they had left in the original reliever, hitters might hit about .290 and go 9 for 31 instead. So OOGY usage leads to maybe 5 or 6 extra hits a year, though some of them will be for extra bases.

What do you give up? First of all to use the strategy you have to burn through not just one, but two relievers, the OOGY and the guy the OOGY replaced. You may end up having to overuse the weak end of your bullpen.

Furthermore you need a roster space for your OOGY that could be better spent on a position player. By using the OOGY you end up having guys like Dave Berg getting 102 AB as an outfielder, 11 as a DH, 15 as 1B, and 9 as a pinch hitter. Or how about Chris Gomez getting 49 AB as a 1B, 9 as a DH, and 8 as a pinch hitter.

OOGYs make you burn through pitchers, play middle infielders at power positions, cause cats to marry dogs, erode family values, etc. in order to prevent *5* hits a year. Even if those hits are at key times it seems like a really bad strategy to me.

OOGYs make you burn through pitchers, play middle infielders at power positions, cause cats to marry dogs, erode family values, etc.

All this is true. But we may need legislation to stop it now.

I'm afraid someone will whisper to a manager somewhere ".131 batting average" and it will be the end of life as we know it.

Also striking - the manager who used this strategy more than any other was... Felipe Alou? As I recall, when he started out managing in Montreal, one of the distinctive things about his managerial approach was that he didn't do this sort of thing at all...

Strategywise I think we have to consider the roles of manager and GM seperately.

If I'm a manager and my GM puts 13 pitchers on the roster, I'm going to use OOGYs. I mean, why not? What else am I going to do with 8 relievers? So maybe that's the difference in the Alou case. Now he has the relievers (Eyre), he'll use them.

From a GM perspective, designing your roster in such a fashion is sheer folly. Even if I had the best OOGY in the world, I wouldn't put him on the roster. I'd trade him to one of the other 29 teams in the league and get something nice and shiny. :)

The documented spaz-outs here rival road rage. Even Spencer Fordin is caught frothing at the mouth.

Let's be honest: Catching me wigging out isn't exactly that rare. If you're in the immmediate vicinity, you can catch me reacting that way to a number of stimuli. This TonyPena really has nothing to do with it.

I'm sure Dudek, Coach and (especially) Magpie all have their own favorite examples of my Press Box Antics -- PBA, trademarked. If they don't, I guarantee Wilner does.

I'm just writing in to wish everyone a Happy New Year. Since it made such an impact on some of you, I may as well reiterate that Buster Olney is the best sportswriter in the business while I'm here.

See you all in '05 -- make it a happy and a healthy one.

I think Studes' study shows that it's a really bad strategy

It doesn't quite do that. What it does do is put a number on the OOGY strategy's benefits, but not on the strategy's costs. There seem to me to be two aspects of this:

1. overall bullpen effectiveness, and
2. reduction of roster flexibility.

What is strange from a Jays perspective is seeing the home team near the bottom of the OOGY usage list. Tosca sure flipped pitchers plenty, but I guess he'd usually have them go 2 batters. I'll have to check.

Going to the Yankees to win a World Championship is like going to the zoo to see a polar bear instead of the Arctic.

KT, I think this deserves a T-shirt.

And my favourite Fordin antic was when he was flipping out because he was the only writer to pick up the game notes and everyone else kept asking to borrow his. It was worthy of a sitcom of its own.

Does Roger Clemens go down as a great World Champion? Absolutely not. Jack Morris is a great World Champion, Curt Schilling is a great World Champion, Orel Hersishiser is a great World Champion.

Not going to argue with Hershiser -- greatest player ever to come out of my alma mater and a fine pitching coach these days -- but your other two examples are way off base.

If your reasoning is "You're not a great world chamption if you go to a team that's already really good for an insane amount of money," then Schilling is right out, bloody ankle or no; and Morris was widely considered to be a "mercenary" after the paycheck when we went to Minnesota for twice what Detroit offered, but he claimed he was going "home" -- until after one year Toronto offered him 10 mil for two seasons. So by that argument, going to Toronto in the mid-1990s for Molitor, Winfield, Morris and Stewart cheapens their ring as well, and I'm just willing to bet you don't believe that.

If your argument is "this is different -- it's the Yankees," which is what I think it boils down to, then I will agree that the degree is different, but never once in the free agent era have the Yankees set the market (the exception maybe being Winfield, they've only reacted to the insane contracts handed out to Wayne Garland, Russ Ortiz and their ilk by others.

From what I remember, the Blue Jays could never get over a certain post-season hump before Jack Morris came along. They had great talent, but couldn't deliver the big games in the post season and let the Twins get by them and win it all in 1991 (Jack Morris powered that inferior Minnesota juggeraut as well).

It was worthy of a sitcom of its own.

Congradulations SF, you just earned yourself a spot on Too Many Molinas! Of course you'll have to use the much more intimidating on screen name of Dr. Prison Fence. I see your role in the later seasons after we've jumped the shark as the magic powered super villan trying to bring down the Molinas!

"NO! You can't borrow my game notes!! These are mine!! I have to stop the game at its source if I want to be free.... I'm going to KILL the Molinas!"

PS. Who knew that O-Dog lead the team in pitches seen per plate apperance with significant ABs last year? I tells ya... that kid is something else. Let's spend some of the "we couldn't sign anyone" money on locking up this kid for a couple years.

Tino Martinez has signed a one year deal with the Yankee's. It calls for $3million this season and a team option for the same amount in 2006.

*source: Rotoworld

Oh yeah, and Schilling helped Arizona win its first World Series, and Boston its first in 86 years (and though his team didn't win it all, he sure made the 1993 WS interesting). I guess that's what I mean by "great World Champion"...

When you read the HOF plaques of Schilling and Morris in the future, guaranteed there will be big mention of their World Series prowess. With Clemens, it's just going to be personal achievements mentioned and gaudy stats. That might have been a different story if Houston won it all in 2004 (I still believe they should have got past the Cardinals and shoddy bullpen management cost them the NLCS, as shoddy bullpen management cost the Twins the ALDS).

Keith, if the Yankee's win the world series this year do you think my Tino Maritinez rookie cards will leap in value? :)

Since it made such an impact on some of you, I may as well reiterate that Buster Olney is the best sportswriter in the business while I'm here.

Productive Outs, Productive Outs, Productive Outs!

Happy New Year all!

http://www.fox.com/arresteddev/
I'm just writing in to wish everyone a Happy New Year. Since it made such an impact on some of you, I may as well reiterate that Buster Olney is the best sportswriter in the business while I'm here.


Maybe I can't take him seriously because he reminds me of another Buster (COMN).

:)

Let's spend some of the "we couldn't sign anyone" money on locking up this kid for a couple years.

If the budget can be structured to use up this year's "spare" money on O-Dog's future years, this is a very good call indeed.

It's not really spare money of course, but it appears to be money which has less value than we expected, and we hope it will regain its value next year if/when the market calms down.

(That noise you can hear is Moffatt turning in his about.com grave, when I say dumb things like money having less value than expected.)

do you think my Tino Maritinez rookie cards will leap in value?

What happened to baseball cards anyway? The used to be everywhere, now all you can by is leftover stock from the early 90s (vending machine at SkyDome selling 1993 Donruss). What's up?

I should have sold my Griffey rookie cards back in '89. I think they were worth 5x then what they are now. :(

I still have some Randy Johnson in an Expos jersey (they were loose in a box!). It's funny to look back on what I put in protective casing: Ray Lankford, Ben McDonald, Ricky Jordan, Gregg Jeffries, Bo Jackson...

Can you buy baseball cards in Canada anymore? It was a fad that kind of died with the '94 strike, correct?

another Buster

"Arrested Development", the funniest show on TV.

That noise you can hear is Moffatt turning in his about.com grave

I'm not dead yet. I think I'll go for a walk.

I'm not dead yet. I think I'll go for a walk.

You're not fooling anyone, you know.

Can you buy baseball cards in Canada anymore? It was a fad that kind of died with the '94 strike, correct?

Yes, I think your timeline and reason estimate are about correct. I'm going to give all my cards to my kids. Maybe in their lifetime there will be a nostalgia resurgence.

On your assessment of true champion players I agree with your position. Except Jack Morris while great in Detroit and Minny was pretty much crap in Toronto. In 92 he gave the Blue Jays a workman like 240 innings and that was about it. He washed out in the playoffs and WS. His next year, 93, was pretty much a disaster.

A couple of things:

I say depressing because it looks like the strategy is extremely effective. Which means it isn't going away anytime soon.

If I could make one rule change to baseball, I would make it so that a team was only allowed to make one pitching change per inning (with a new pitcher starting the inning not counting as a pitching change, or an injury that causes a pitcher to come out of the game).

This would speed up the game and make things a little more interesting.

From what I remember, the Blue Jays could never get over a certain post-season hump before Jack Morris came along

Jack Morris was the least effective pitcher for the Blue Jays during the ALCS, he should get no credit at all for getting the Jays over the hump. In fact at the time I felt him being in the rotation actually hurt the Jays, it meant that Jimmy Key was taken out of the rotation, while Key may not have had the shiny wins Morris did, Key was the better pitcher.

In fact at the time I felt him being in the rotation actually hurt the Jays, it meant that Jimmy Key was taken out of the rotation, while Key may not have had the shiny wins Morris did, Key was the better pitcher.

Thats my recollection as well. Though I also seem to recall Key being absolutely electric in relief. It would be interesting to look back on those box scores.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1992_ALCS.shtml
If I recall correctly it was in the World Series that Key was electric. IMO - getting over the Hump was getting to the WS.

Morris started game one of the ALCS and was knocked out in the 3rd inning of game 4 with the Jays trailing. COMN

Italics begone!

Did that work?

Not quite the post season hero for the Jays.

In fairness to Happy Jack, he certainly pitched well enough to win both his Game 1 starts in 1992 - a 4-3 loss to Oakland on a 9th inning HR and a 3-1 loss to Atlanta.

Nevertheless, it was good to have David Cone for Game 2...

For all of you in the east who are now starting to get ready for your New Year celebrations I want to wish you a happy and peaceful new year.

Personlly I will be sharing a thought and a few bucks for those unforunate souls in South Asia.

I don't like this RJ trade. The $8.5 million is way too high If this goes through, the Yankees don't need to develop players, they don't need to have players signed to resonable contracts, that would make them attractive trades, all they need is money.

The Yankees have a lot of money and now the rope does not seem long enough to hang them.

Well, the Yankees do need to develop players if they intend to continue engaging in prospects-for-veterans trades. Despite all of Steinbrenner's money, the shortage of tradable bodies has actually been hamstringing him. With this trade done, the Yankees are now seemingly incapable of making any trades. It's FA's or nothing.

If they suffer injury problems mid-season (a real threat given the age of so many of their players) they will be hard-pressed to make any moves. What relatively cheap and young nuggets are left to peddle?

If I could make one rule change to baseball, I would make it so that a team was only allowed to make one pitching change per inning (with a new pitcher starting the inning not counting as a pitching change, or an injury that causes a pitcher to come out of the game).

This would speed up the game and make things a little more interesting.

Want the simplest solution to speeding up the game? Tell the frigin' batters to stay in the friggin' batters box between pitches. If there are men on base, or if there are two strikes, let them move one foot out of the box to call time. There is no reason imaginable that between each and every friggin' pitch, batters have to leave the batter's box entirely and leave the frame of my TV. That's just absurd.

Tell the frigin' batters to stay in the friggin' batters box between pitches.

Paging Mr Garciaparra... Paging Mr Garciaparra...

Just exactly when did everybody adopt Mike Hargrove as a role model?

Tell the frigin' batters to stay in the friggin' batters box between pitches.

That and pitchers can't leave the mound.

That and pitchers can't leave the mound.

Exactly. Once the batters are no longer roaming, the pitchers will have to be reigned in. As it stands now, the pitchers can take their between pitch jaunts, all the while blaming the absent batters.

Ever see Jim Kaat pitch? Catch and throw. Catch and throw. He pitched like he was double parked.

He pitched like he was double parked.

Tee-hee. Its certainly how Dave Stieb pitched 19 complete games in a season...

It may also have been Kaat who said "I'm only good for two hours" - and I certainly think the length of games is one of the reasons so many starters are toast after 7 IP these days. It's not the seven innings, its the two-and-a-half hours.

If he pulls a Ligtenberg and fires the next pitch to the backstop, does the manager take him out, revealing his strategy utterly failed?

Actually, the manager can't take him out. A pitcher must either face a batter or record an out some other way. There were I think six occasions when a pitcher entered the game and got an out without actually facing a hitter (caught stealings and pick offs.)

I think it's clear that the OOGY's did perform better than an average pitcher. The cost is roster flexibility and general questions of overall bullpen effectiveness. If you leverage your use of OOGYs to the crucial moments of games, there might be a payoff.

Except in the crucial moments of games, don't you want your best reliever on the mound? If this is your best guy, why is he being used as an OOGY?

(I may like typing "OOGY" just a little too much.)

Oh - I think the reason the Jays were second from the bottom in OOGY usage this year was the De Los Santos injury. I think Tosca used the strategy a lot more when Trever Miller was around.

OK, lots of raw data about the Jays use of OOGYs in 2004.

Be forewarned. This could bring back bad memories of the Season From Hell.

Studes says the Jays used an OOGY 17 times - I found 16 of them. Probably just careless and missed one.

A few notes: it's not the bringing in a reliever that bothers everyone. It's taking him out after he gets an out and bringing in someone else that makes you crazy.

The next time John Gibbons pulls a pitcher after facing just one batter will be the first time he's done it (unless of course that's the game I didn't find.) Each time he did it, there was no next inning.

Tosca used this strategy six times in the first 8 games of the season, and seven times over the next three and a half months.

OK, here we go...

(1.) 5 April - Jays down 7-0. Speier relieved Doc with the bases empty and retired last man in the 7th. Del Los Santos pitches the 8th.

(2.) 9 April - Jays up 7-5. Lopez relieves Adams, runner on 1st and 2 out. Gets the 3rd out. Ligtenberg pitches the 9th, Jays win 10-5.

(3.) 10 April - Jays down 3-1. DLS relieves Doc to start the 8th. Retires Ortiz. Lopez comes in and gives up a HR to Manny. Jays lose 4-1.

(4.) 11 April - Jays up 4-2. DLS relieves Adams in the 8th with 1 out and a runner on 1st. Allows a single to Ortiz. Speier comes in and gives up two more singles to cut the lead to 4-3 before getting out of the inning.

(5.) 11 April. Same game. Game tied 4-4, bottom of the 9th. Kershner relieves Ligtenberg with 2 out and the winning run on 2nd. Retires Ortiz. Lopez (6th Toronto pitcher) comes in for the 10th and loses the game in the 12th.

(6.) 13 April - Jays down 5-4 in the 7th. Lopez relieves Kershner with two out and no one on. Gets his man. Adams pitches 8th, Speier the 9th, Jays rally to win 7-5.

(7.) 21 April - Jays down 3-2. DLS relieves Frasor to start the 8th. Allows a 2b to Ortiz and is replaced by Ligtenberg. The run eventually scores on a flyout and a WP, Jays lose 4-2.

(8.) 29 April - Jays up 4-3. DLS relieves Nakamura, bases loaded none out. Two runs already in. Gets a 64 FC for the first out, tying run scores. Frasor comes in, allows two RBI singles before ending the inning. Jays lose 6-4.

(9.) 12 May - Tie game 2-2. Kershner relieves Nakamura with two out in 7th and a man on 1st. Gets his guy. Jays go ahead in the 8th; Ligtenberg works one inning, but then Adams works the 9th and loses the game 4-3.

(10.) 27 May - Jays up 3-2, two out in the 9th, runner on 1st. Frasor relieves Doc (110 pitches) gets the final out and the save.

(11.) 29 May - Jays up 6-2. Kershner starts the 9th, gets his guy. Texas pinch-hits, Ligtenberg comes in and gets the last two outs. Jays win 6-2.

(12.) 5 June - Jays down 4-0. DLS relieves Hentgen to start the 8th and walks the leadoff guy. File comes in, allows no damage. Jays lose 4-0.

(13.) 22 July - Tie game 0-0 in the seventh. Adams relieves Lilly with two out and runners on 1st and 2nd. Gets his guy.Chulk comes in for the 8th and retires 5 in a row before Ruben Sierra... Jays lose 1-0

MANAGERIAL CHANGE

(14.) 11 August - Jays down 3-2. Chulk relieves Speier with the bases loaded and two out. Gets his guy but Jays don't score. Game over.

(15.) 17 August - Tie game 4-4. Speier relieves Frederick in the 9th, one out and Damon on 1st. Gives up GW double to Cabrera, Jays lose 5-4. Game over.

(16.) 4 September - Jays down 9-5. File relieves with Frasor with 2 out in the 9th, runner on second, five runs already in. Gets his guy, Jays don't score, Game over, Jays lose 9-5.

Magpie, that might could've been a whole different thread on its own. Lots of raw material there.

With this trade done, the Yankees are now seemingly incapable of making any trades. It's FA's or nothing.

That's not *entirely* true. The #1 Yankees prospect is still around -- Eric Duncan, who was headed to the Dodgers in the original RJ deal; why the D-Backs took Brad Halsey instead is a mystery to me. And they have a B+-level middle infield prospect in Ferdin Tejada.

But after that, yeah, it's pretty barren until you look at the kids at Staten Island and in Tampa, and there's nobody on the fast track there.

And if Duncan is as good as I think he's gonna be, he won't be around long, traded in July for some 35-year-old left-handed fifth starter.

Philip Hughes is a prospect the Yankees could package with someone like Duncan. I don't know exactly when Hughes signed but I believe he's a 2004 pick so I don't think they could trade him until the full 12 months passed his signing (I guess they could get around that as a PTBNL). Cano would also has some value, I would imagine.

I don't know much about Hughes. Cano is a decent prospect, but could never centerpiece a deal -- in an absolute best case scenario, he's Mariano Duncan. Tejada may turn out to be D'Angelo Jiminez, sure, but from wbat I understand, the Yankees are much higher on him than that.

OK, lots of raw data about the Jays use of OOGYs in 2004.

Great stuff, Magpie. I had actually started a fairly related piece, but then I changed the focus and tried to expand it a bit more. This will still help me out, though. It's a work in progress, but may be done in a week or two. So if you are interested, look out for it.

Not going to argue with Hershiser -- greatest player ever to come out of my alma mater and a fine pitching coach these days -- but your other two examples are way off base

Mick, you went to Bowling Green? Thats the school I'm at right now. Small world eh?

Mick, you went to Bowling Green?

Hi Justin, you bet -- home of Orel Hershiser, Roger McDowell, John Knox, Doug Bair, Larry Owen and Kip Young (I think that's all the major leaguers, so it's not like Hershiser had all that much competition.)

Class of '88 (I know, I know, you were probably in nursery school at the time) and I taught there in 1992-1994. Drop me a note (COMN) some time and tell me who you are and what you're doing there.

Yeah, I was thinking Cano could be the terciary piece of a deal after Duncan and Hughes/Tejada. At least Cano would be something you could use now the rest are still way off in the horizon.

Hey Mick, sent you an e-mail.

And as far as other major leaguers, Andy Tracy, plays for the Rockies and was called up last September after he set a new team record and led the Pacific Coast League with 120 RBI. He also ripped 33 home runs, 42 doubles and three triples in 126 games for the Sky Sox. (Taken right off of the BGSU Website). He also played 38 games for the Expos in 2001.

Also, there is a guy in the Tigers farm system right now from Bowling Green, name is Kelly Hunt. I don't know much more about him.

You're right/ I didn't think Andy actually went to college, but I'm thinking of his older brother Rick, who signed with the Phillies after one semester as a QB/P at BG ... he blew out his arm at some point.

The Tracys grew up down the street from me. Tomorrow I think I will center the QOTD around "all-alma-mater teams" (I think Gizzi, who went to USC, might win that one, unless we have an Arizona alum around somewhere) ... there were more from BG than I thought, according to BBRef, though I'm not sure I'll get a full team out of it.