I hate to lose Duncan and Navarro, but with A-Rod and Posada not going anywhere soon, getting Johnson (especially if the second lefty Milton comes on board) make the Yankees the favorites to win the A.L. East again -- which, many people fail to recall, they did in 2004, finishing two games ahead of Boston.

The Dodgers ... what the hell are they thinking??

It's slowly coming to pass...

The Dodgers ... what the hell are they thinking??

I actually like this deal from their perspective. Alot. Pitching out of LA tends to be overvalued thanks to park effects, no?

I think Vazquez will do VERY well back in the NL and, more importantly, in his new ballpark. Also, I think the Dodgers can get MUCH more performance for their dollar now that they've eliminated Green's $16M albatross.

It'll be interesting to see what they do next.

http://rotoworld.com/content/playernews.asp?sport=MLB
All of the sudden, Rotoworld is saying the following:

"The Arizona Republic's Bob McManaman told ESPNews the proposed three-team Randy Johnson trade is hardly a done deal. He believes Johnson may now be leaning toward staying in Arizona." COMN

Vazquez strikes me as being more at home in the NL. Green's production doesn't justify 70% of his current salary. Brazoban is a good pitcher, and could get better, but he's a reliever. Eric Duncan and Dioner Navarro are both grade A prospects.

The Yankees upgrade at starting pitcher, but the Big Unit is more of an injury risk than Vazquez would have been so I don't expect there to be a huge difference in value in 2005. Will the Yankees try to sign Randy beyond 2005? That would be risky indeed - to make it worthwhile Randy would have to be the most valuable 43 year old pitcher of all time.

Penny's a good not great pitcher if healthy - he's cheap for now. Hopefully for Arizona he'll regain and maintain his health. Arizona has done as well as could be expected in terms of value for Johnson, except for having to acquire an overpaid Green. They have money, so I don't think they mind. They also get two pretty good pitchers at reasonable cost.

Everybody seems to have got something out of this deal. Since the Yankees don't care about developing young players: for them the deal amounts to "Johnson is better than Vazquez". For the Dodgers it likely has neutral impact for 2005, but might help them enourmously in a few years. The D-backs have added three productive major leaguers and now have assembled a near-average major league club on paper (admittedly at some cost).

I'll have to wait until we know about possible money changing hands before I can determine who's been helped the most.

Of course, NOW the Arizona Republic is reporting that Johnson, who has said he would only go to NYY, is "re-thinking" his position and possibly backing away from the deal to take a closer look at going to Boston.

If THAT happened, Steinbrenner might actually murder Cashman.

It's funny because when Pedro signed with the Mets, my thought was "hmm, I wonder if the Big Unit would be interested now in reprising 2000 with Schilling?". It's fine with me, as long as they agree to do a low budget run here in a year or two!

Whether or not the trade does go through, I would think very highly about what the Dodgers get out of that trade. Vazquez is a much better pitcher than he showed last year and should do fine in Dodgers Stadium with a better defence behind him.

What really swings this deal in LA's favour in my mind is the two prospects they get. Navarro looks like a good hitting catcher which isn't trivial to find and Duncan looks like the real deal as a power hitting third baseman.

Couple that with the fact that the Dodgers actually shed salary (at least in the short term) by sending Green packing then you have a very solid deal for them.

Not that everyone else isn't doing alright in this deal as well. Everyone is getting something of considerable worth. Though for Arizona I don't understand them moving Johnson at the expense of taking on Green. That seems to defeat the purpose of moving your best player off the roster in the first place. I like Penny but I think ultimately he's more of a #2/#3 starter whereas Vazquez is in the #1/#2 range (if he pitches like he really can). Brazoban might be the best pure talent they're getting though he's a short reliever.

The Yankees of course get arguably the best pitcher in baseball though for how much longer is uncertain. They seem to continue finding prospects to trade but you have to wonder how much longer that can go on.

I've been thinking about it and I agree now tht it's a decent trade for the Dodgers. But I can't see how it's a good deal for the D'backs.

If the D'backs are trying to shed salary, then they failed because they acquired Green.

If the D'backs are trying to compete next year, then they failed because they traded their MVP.

Green can scuttle the deal too, if he wants. This is reminiscent of Manny for A-Rod last winter. A "nearly done" deal can still collapse. If it does happen, I think it's a coup for L.A., N.Y. gets exactly what they want, and apart from "buying respectability" (as discussed in another thread) Arizona gets hosed.

Penny arrived in L.A. as damaged goods, with an unusual nerve ailment that baffled doctors. The Dodgers would much rather count on a return to form by Vazquez. The payroll flexibility from subtracting Green lets them go after Delgado, or take a serious run at Beltran. Navarro and Duncan will keep paying dividends for several years.

It's entirely possible that a year from now, the D-Backs will have only Brazoban to show for this. To me, they would have been much further ahead leaving L.A. out of it and taking Vazquez and the two prospects for the Unit.

The irony, of course, is that Brad Penny began his professional career with ... the Arizona Diamondbacks. How's Matt Mantei doing these days, Joe?

Super deal for LA if it goes through. JP Ricciardi jettisoned Raul Mondesi and his contract several months into his Toronto career. Several months into his LA career, Paul DePodesta has just jettisoned the guy Mondesi was dealt for.

The payroll flexibility from subtracting Green lets them go after Delgado

Exactly what I was thinking when I asked out loud it'll be interesting to see what they do next

I heard on The Fan that the Mets were hoping to land Delgado for 40M/4 yrs... I think the Dodgers would definitely throw their hat into THAT ring.

The funny thing is that the DBacks are trying to compete in 2005 but it doesn't seem that the Dodgers (same division) are worried about them in the least.

Good points Coach. Seems Arizona would have been quite a bit better off without DePo sticking his nose in thier business.

""How's Matt Mantei doing these days, Joe?""

Not well. 11.31 ERA.

The payroll flexibility from subtracting Green lets them go after Delgado

How about let's them go after Beltran?

If the deal is official, I like the Dodger end of it the best....by far.

They get the ace starter they wanted. Check.

They sshed Shawn Green's bloated salary. Check.

They get a catcher replacement. Check.

They get a third baseman of the future. Check.

What's not to like about that?

The funny thing is that the DBacks are trying to compete in 2005

That's laughable, all right. If the deal happens, if Glaus doesn't blow out his rotator cuff again, if Gonzalez returns from elbow surgery and doesn't hit a wall at 37, if Green recaptures his 2002 stroke and if Penny's mysterious nerve condition isn't serious, Arizona could finish fourth, somewhere around the .500 mark, a 30-win improvement. They would still be no match for the Dodgers or Padres, and the Giants always win more games than I expect.

Rotoworld's top 4 stories, 2 say the trade is done, 2 say its not going to happen. This does look like the Manny-Arod situation from a year ago.

Just the GM's getting a feel for the reaction....

Hillanbrand is an FA right Coach?

He was by far their best offensive weapon last season. Another blow if they don't resign him.

Hillanbrand is an FA right Coach?

2005 will be Hillebrand's last year before FA. He's eligible for arbitration right now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/transactions?date=20041209
Hillanbrand is an FA right Coach?

Before the 2004, the D-Backs and Hillenbrand avoided arbitration with a one-year $2.6 million deal.

Hillenbrand was not on the list of players to whom Arizona either offered or declined to offer arbitration to on 8 December.

But he doesn't have enough service time to be a free agent.

So I don't get it. Does anyone know?

Wrong,

Hillenbrand's career started in 2001 (and he spent the whole year with the Red Sox).

2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006. After 2006 he will have 6.0 years of service time (assuming he's not released or non-tendered before then) and be a free agent unless he signs a multi-year deal extending into 2007 or beyond before then.

It's possible he'll be non-tendered on Monday, and the odds of that go way up if Shawn Green does end up in Arizona before then.

It's possible he'll be non-tendered on Monday

OK, I get it. Dec 20 is the last day teams can tender contracts. The arbitration deadline earlier (Dec 7) was for players who had already filed for FA - obviously Hillenbrand isn't one of them.

So Arizona can just decide on Monday... so long, its been good to know yuh...or offer a contract. And the possible arbitration period for that would begin 5 Jan if they do...

I just don't understand Arizona. Signing Glaus and Ortiz says "we want to contend." It says it somewhat weirdly, but at least it doesn't say "rebuilding."

So if you want to contend and you're willing to spend money... why do you trade away one of the absolute best pitchers in baseball?

Ryan Day ~ I want to say money, but not if they pick up Shawn Green in the deal. That is truly mindboggling...

So, does anyone else think that perhaps the Yankees deliberately leaked the "deal" to a NY paper to draw attention away from the Mets' signing of Pedro?

Oh, and I do find it a bit amusing to re-read Robert's comments on the "done deal"...

No love for Robinson Cano? If this deal goes down the Yanks will still have *one* prospect ;-).

why do you trade away one of the absolute best pitchers in baseball?

I think RJ is kind of saying "get me out of here" at the top of his voice.

So, does anyone else think that perhaps the Yankees deliberately leaked the "deal" to a NY paper to draw attention away from the Mets' signing of Pedro?

Hey, I had the same thought and posted it on the roundup thread. NOt knowing this one had risen from the dead...

To answer your question... is the Pope Catholic? Does a bear... you know, in the woods?