All this talk of how little money the Jays have is making me sad. They should learn from Delgado. He's not a poor boy and with his choice of hairstyle he doesn't even have to worry about split enz.

Mike, we won't know if history repeats itself with The Ultimate Comeback II [tm] for another week or so. But that's just splitting hairs. (is that too obscure?)

(is that too obscure?)

No, ... Just too Slow

Oh, damn, picked the wrong Split Enz song ... assumed it would be "History Never Repeats" based on the current Series setup.

The Blue Jays are aggressively attempting to move Hinske to the Cincinnati Reds, who don't have an everyday third baseman.

Doesn't make sense to me... The Jays need a third Baseman AND a bat... if they deal Hinkse (and pay his salary) and sign Koskie they are still short a player..

The only way it makes sense to me is if it frees up Payroll in 2006 and 2007. but that means we are writing off another year... better 2005 than 2007 though..

JAYS TRYING TO DEAL HINSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES! Christmas comes early!!!

This old 'Dome" by Mark Keast: Is a poorly written aritcle

It makes statements, then quotes the experts who deny the statements..

It connects the Jays bringing new fans in, to "new turf" and a winning baseball team to concession sales...

We all know that who owns the Dome is just a financial question.. If there are two Owners then there are two profit streams... if there is one, then there is one... simple... its not a baseball nor a "fan experience" issue..

Ask the people from out of town, "the dome" is not a bad place to be, in fact when there is a good crowd its a GREAT place...

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=88
In his chat yesterday (COMN), BP's Joe Sheehan had this to say about the Cinci third base situation:

Greg (Cincinnati): What do you think of the Reds trying Austin Kearns at 3B?

Joe Sheehan: Every 15 years, someone has to try this. It won't work. It's much more likely that Kearns will be trading for a package of pitchers.

The Reds' dissatisfaction with Edwin Encarnacion is very disappointing. He's the guy who should be at third next year.

Is Kearns a good target for the Jays?

This old 'Dome" by Mark Keast: Is a poorly written aritcle

You expected more from the Sun? I agree with your conclusion - The #1 thing needed to make the Dome a good place to watch a game is decent sized crowds.

Did anyone hear Vernon Wells on the FAN before last nights game?

He was asked about whether he has talkied to Delgado about his current situation. Vernon said he had and that Delgado wants to come back to Toronto, but he's not going to do so at a reduced salary. He said that Delgado needs to give a little and the Jays need to give a little, but neither side is budging right now.

From Lee S.:

4) Dodgers LF Jayson Werth has torn ligaments in his elbow. He may need
surgery and, if he does, GM Paul DePodesta says Werth will be out for "a
good part" of 2005.

In his first year with more than 26 games, Werth hit .486 SLG, .338 OBA,
.825 OPS, 9 RCAA in 89 games. He has 5 RCAA/.790 OPS in 130 career games.

I Googled Hinske and there was an article in the Dayton, Ohio paper that said the Jays were offering Hinske to the Reds. Of course, they want so much information out of you before you can actually read the article I didn't get that far.

I'm not against trading Hinske, I just wish the Jays would make trades when a player's value isn't at its absolute lowest point.

FWIW, Austin Kearns most comparible player is George Bell!

Excellent work in identifying Poor Boy by Split Enz. You win 200 million points, a picture of a woman dealing with her split ends:



and a picture of a sea creature of some sort. How abouot an eel?



---

The Reds' dissatisfaction with Edwin Encarnacion is very disappointing. He's the guy who should be at third next year.

Is Kearns a good target for the Jays?

I think Encarnacion is also a better target. He's going to be a good one. I wonder what the Jays would have to give up to make Hinske + Extra Stuff for Encarnacion? Either the Jays would have to pay a great deal of Hinske's salary or give up some pitching.

I'm not against trading Hinske, I just wish the Jays would make trades when a player's value isn't at its absolute lowest point.

No kidding. Is there a worse possible time to trade Hinske? (and Phelps and Werth etc.)

I don't like the idea of trading someone at there lowest point either. While most of me wants Hinske gone, part of me says, live with him for another year and see what happens. After that year less owed to him on his contract and maybe even better numbers. By then Aaron Hill can take over the job at 3rd.

What happens with Delgado, plays a major factor in what the Jays should do with Hinske. If he goes, the Jays will need another hitter, and just maybe Troy Glaus could be that guy?

While I like Koskie, I don't think he's the answer.

http://www.baseballreference.com/m/mchenau01.shtml
Baseball Reference lies! Austin Kearns' most comparable player is not George Bell, at all. He has much better strike zone judgment and much less durability. Last season, it was a forearm fracture and a thumb injury (which sidelined him for 71 games). Kearns' most comparable player is probably Kal Daniels. Heckuva hitter, but couldn't stay healthy. What is it in the air in Cincinnati anyway that makes their outfielders so susceptible to injury?

There are 4 ballplayers in baseball history who had the first name Austin. Two had a whiff of coffee only. Before Kearns, the other who had significant playing time was Austin Bush McHenry. COMN. It was a sad story; McHenry died in his prime of a brain tumour. Ironically, McHenry's most comparable player who was Lyman Bostock who also died in his prime in a drive-by shooting.

Anyways, I'd stay away from Kearns, unless the financial arrangements are such that you can live with a 300 PA season from him.

Personally, I'd feel comfortable with Aaron Hill starting next season as the Jay third baseman if Hinske is traded. It would involve some risk, but as far as I am concerned, one worth taking. The Hinske trade rumour is of course just that a rumour. I'm not getting excited about it. These things are a dime a dozen.

These things are a dime a dozen.

You're vastly overpaying for your trade rumours. :)

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/Stats/box_AFL.shtml
Boffo news from the AFL. Francisco Rosario started and went 4 innings, allowing 1 earned run, while striking out 7. Adam Peterson was perfect in 2 innings and struck out 3. The Saguaros won 10-1. Hill and Hattig each reached base twice, but the story from the Jay perspective was the performance of the pitchers.

Adam Peterson was perfect in 2 innings and struck out 3

He gave up 1 hit.

It's nice to see Peterson and Rosario have a nice game, but given their ages (Peterson will be 26 next season, Rosario 25) they are still really inconsistent. They appear to still have a lot of work to do in the minors, although they both obviously have great stuff.

Ok, I took the bullet and registered at the Dayton paper, and this is what it had to say:

Realizing the Reds are rudderless at third base, the Toronto Blue Jays reportedly are offering Eric Hinske, who probably is too pricey.

He will make $3 million next season, $4.33 million in '06 and $5.625 million in '07. That's not top-shelf cash for a good player, but the Blue Jays probably would have to eat some of that contract to foist him upon the Reds.

In 570 at-bats last season, Hinske hit only .246 with 15 homers and 69 RBIs.

Have the Reds completely given up on Brandon Larson? I remember all the bruhauha about Larson being their conerstone 3B for years to come... yikes

A couple interesting tidbits...

Byung Hyun Kim is reportedly close to being traded/sold to a Japanese team (along with former Giants #1 pick Adam Hyzdu).

The Braves are seriously considering allowing Smoltz to start again, especially if they lose their three free agent starters.

There are rumblings in Yankee-land, that if Mel retires as pitching coach, the Yanks could be interested in Jays' (undeserving) castoff Gil Patterson.

Have the Reds completely given up on Brandon Larson? I remember all the bruhauha about Larson being their conerstone 3B for years to come... yikes

Larson was released.

What is it in the air in Cincinnati anyway that makes their outfielders so susceptible to injury?

Well, at least Eric Davis has that long, injury-free, Hall-of-Fame career with the Reds. And you all thought that late-1980's chatter about him being the first 600/600 player was so much hype!

Adam Peterson was perfect in 2 innings and struck out 3

He wasn't, and I wasn't.:)

I'm not worried at all about Rosario's and Peterson's ages. Rosario's got great stuff, and overall, he's made a decent recovery from TJ surgery. Peterson throws gas and has very little mileage on his arm. If he makes the majors at age 27 or 28, there is no reason that he could not be an effective reliever for six years or more after that. The issues with him are confidence, control, and his secondary pitches.

Why does everyone think Aaron Hill would be acceptable at third base? We need power at the corners, not a singles hitter.

We need power at the corners

This has always struck me as one of those baseball-isms that gets repeated because it's been repeated so often before.

It is likely true that you need power in the lineup to win consistently, but why lump 3B with 1B? While it's true that plenty of power hitters have been All-Star 3B -- Mathews, Schmidt, Glaus, etc. -- so have plenty of "singles hitters" -- Rose, Madlock, etc.

Alternatively, plenty of power-hitting 3B have been moved to other positions to keep their bat in the lineup (Chipper Jones, Harmon Killebrew, Tony Perez, Steve Garvey), while this cannot be said of 1B.

Of course, th e '92 Jays won a title with Kelly Gruber (.229, 11 homers), who wasn't either

But where is the power in the Jays lineup, if Delgado leaves? It's not at 3B, SS, C, 2B (although there is potential there), LF, RF or DH. That leaves just Verno, which isn't good at all... Seems really weird considering that the Jays are built as a team that would get on base and go for the three-run home run.

Another Joe Morgan Moronic statement last night:

I was listening to the game on the radio for a bit last night and Joe Morgan and John Miller are the broadcasters. In the third inning after Jeff Suppan scratched out a hit, Edgar Renteria came to the plate. Joe Morgan went on to say 'this is why I think Tony Womack should be leading off for the Cardinals. If he was leading of he would be up in this situation right now, and he is a much better bunter. He has more speed and he can make things happen. A bunt is what you need in this situation, you need get the runner into scoring position so you need a guy like Womack up who can do this', and so on, and so on.

My first complaint is that this logic suggests that having a guy that can bunt is better than having the best hitter in the league at the plate. Morgan implies he would rather have someone that hit's .100 with no power up, but can bunt, than a guy that hit .300 with 60 home runs.

Then Renteria doubles.

Joe Morgan then goes on to say 'This is why I liked Edgar Renteria up in that situation'

Unbelievable!

Why does everyone think Aaron Hill would be acceptable at third base? We need power at the corners, not a singles hitter.

I won't speak for everyone, but here are my reasons. Winning teams do need their third baseman to make a significant offensive contribution. But, that contribution can take the form either of a slugger-Mike Schmidt, Eddie Matthews, Troy Glaus, or a player with a balance of skills-George Brett, Bill Madlock, Bill Mueller. Aaron Hill is of the latter type. He does have medium range power (he hit 11 homers in a pitcher's park in double A at age 22); very good strike zone judgment, and will hit for a good to very good average.

Not all sluggers really help their team. Tony Batista hit 32 homers last year, but with his .272 OBP he was not helping the Expos.

The real question that I have is whether Aaron Hill is ready (I think he is). Some people would say that he needs to spend some time in triple A, and that certainly is a reasonable view.

Mick, beat me to it by 10 whole minutes. Your prize is my agreement not to make any comments on your all-November team.:)

Marc does make a very good point. The Jays offense could be very week next year unless some changes are made.

I think Hill will become a very good hitter, but I worry that next year won't be a lot of fun for Jays fans.

I personally would not feel comfortable starting the season with both Hill and Adams on the left side of the diamond, especially with Hill's limited playing time at 3B. He needs at least half a season at AAA to work on his defence... but then where would Hattig play... first base/DH? But I thought JF Griffin was being shifted there next season. And who is around to play SS at AAA?

I imagine the plan is to have Hill at SS, Hattig at 3B. I honestly don't know where JFG will fit in, since Crozier will be at 1B.

Joe Morgan thinks Womack should be leading off so that he can bunt the pitcher over to second? Just how many times is that going to be necessary?

That might be the least sensible thing he's ever said.

My last post sounded way more authoritative than I meant it to. I have no knowledge of what the Jays will do. The above was purely just my speculation.

Sometimes I think Morgan just says things he doesn't really believe because he feels he has to say something.

But if the future of Hill is at third base, shouldn't he get more experience there while at AAA? Maybe they will split playing time for Crozier and JF between 1B and DH.

By the way, did you get the email I sent you, Moffatt?

JFG could move back to the outfield.

I'm really disappoited in both Griffen and Arnold's performance to this point.

I generally like listening to Joe Morgan, when he sticks to watching the game and telling us what he sees. The pitcher's stuff, signs of tiredness, defensive positioning and so on. His comments about strategy are another matter, but I can easily ignore them.

Last night, he commented that the Sox had an unusual defensive positioning on Pujols with the third baseman deep and off the line a fair bit. With Mueller at third and nobody on and the Cards trailing by more than a run, a bunt would have been a sensible thing. I'd love to have seen Pujols try that in the ninth. Reggie Jackson might have done that.

I loved John Millers call when Jeff Suppan got caught off third in the 3rd inning:

"That was the worst base running of All-Time!"

It's hard to believe that Griffin was a first round pick by the Yankees (I was hoping the Jays would draft him over Gross... oops). And he hit over .400 in his college career! I figured he would have been in the majors in two years or less.

http://www.bugmenot.com
Ok, I took the bullet and registered at the Dayton paper

COMN for the solution to all your web registration needs when the bselig/bselig login does not work.

By the way, thanks for the eel Mike. Although, you make it seem like I gave myself the prize.

I find it difficult to believe Wells if he said Carlos won't take a pay cut. He's certainly not going to make $17 million anywhere next season. The only questions are how much of a cut he will have to take and whose logo will be on the contract letterhead.

'Paycutt' was my wording not Wells, he was referring to Delgado not taking less than market price.

"Paycutt"

I've really got to start looking over my comments before posting, they have been horrible today.

Well, I think we have a question for Mr. Wilner tonight:

Hey Mike, thanks for taking my call.
How asinine is the Hinske trade rumour? Very, extremely, or absolutely?

Here's my question: Where are all those close, high scoring games I was hoping for? I enjoyed the hell out of game one, but the next two have been...I dunno, lacking in excitement for me. How about everyone else?

I'm rooting for the Red Sox partially because we'll never hear about the curse again (I hope) and partially because the people I met at Fenway in June were genuinely nice and seemed like they were in physical pain when they talked about their home team... but the last two games I've been rooting for the Cardinals to make a series out of this!

Then it hit me: what could be worse than making baseball history by coming back from a 3-0 deficit only to go up 3-0 in the World Series and then lose to the second team in baseball history to come back from 3-0 to win it?

By the way, Bud Selig is sitting about five rows directly ahead of where I sat when I went. Those are some fantastic seats.

I really hope they do trade Hinske, however if they don't, can the Jays at least promise they won't include Hinske's butt in next years marketing campaign?

Not this week maybe but; Hattig at third, Adams at SS, Hill at 2nd, Big Vito at 1st, Hudson trade bait.

Who told me this? Denny Crane. (Those of you that don't watch Boston Legal ignore this bit.)

By the way, thanks for the eel Mike. Although, you make it seem like I gave myself the prize.

That cat is out of the bag. Cristian and Moffatt are the same person. Great attempt at a cover-up though, Mofftian.

Why does everyone think Aaron Hill would be acceptable at third base? We need power at the corners, not a singles hitter.

Toronto needs a capable hitter of any type to play third, as others have mentioned. Regardless of what kind of hitter Hill could become though, I'm going to stop short of annointing him for any role on the Jays in 2005. Hill is a good prospect but he hasn't played above AA yet and it's not like he dominated in New Hampshire. If he had, maybe I'd be more prone to say he's ready to make the jump.

It's hard to believe that Griffin was a first round pick by the Yankees (I was hoping the Jays would draft him over Gross... oops). And he hit over .400 in his college career!

JFG has been battling a wrist problem, has he not? That could be part of the answer as to why he hasn't hit like projected. As well, the switch to wooden bats may have robbed him of some of the extra base power he had in college. He might still turn it around.

Who is the better fielding Short Stop, Adams or Hill? Because from what I have seen, I'm very concerned about Russ Adams defense at short and don't think he will stay there long term.

Everything I've read about the two says that Adams has the range and Hill the arm but (maybe) not enough range for short.

By the way, did you get the email I sent you, Moffatt?

Haven't checked it since 7:00AM this morning. Will do so now.

By the way, thanks for the eel Mike. Although, you make it seem like I gave myself the prize.

LOL! How did that happen?!?

Someone must have switched me to decaf this morning. I've been making strange errors all day. :)

But if the future of Hill is at third base, shouldn't he get more experience there while at AAA?

If that's the case, then yes. I don't know if Hill's future is at third base. That's pure speculation on our part. I think his future is as likely to be at second as it is at third.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
I'm very concerned about Russ Adams defense at short

If the Angels can win the west with David Eckstein at short, I'm sure the Jays can get by with Adams' defense.

But where is the power in the Jays lineup, if Delgado leaves? It's not at 3B, SS, C, 2B (although there is potential there), LF, RF or DH. That leaves just Verno, which isn't good at all... Seems really weird considering that the Jays are built as a team that would get on base and go for the three-run home run.

I am pretty sure that a 'winning' Jays team will have a Slugging High Average 1B, and a Slugging DH, AND a return to form of Hinske.

If Hinske isn't going to return to form, (and he might not), then we need 3 bats for 2006, i.e. Koskie AND Glaus, and one more...

BTW: did anyone do the math on the Jays losses this year? All no-payroll issues being equal, the Jays losses could be made 0 if they take the Delgado money, pay the raises they are due this year and SIGN NO ONE!.... SCARY...

There's a great baseball related story on My Grandmother that was on the front page of The New England Herald.

Is she really your grandmother?

That's a great story.

What is the cosmic significance of a lunar eclipse on the night of game 4, with the Sox poised to win?

Sign of Hell freezing over?

Yup, that is really my grandmother.

Don't hold the Red Sox blood in my family against me :)

Finally ... a reason for this long-time Yankee fan to not be totally distraught if so-called Red Sox Nation finally wins a ring: James J. Buckheit. What a well-written essay.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/mraze/70625.html
1)
Well first it is nice to see the jays blood letting of finances nearly stopping.

2)
Delgado can come back and I would be very happy if he signed for 10 million or less. If not then thanks for the memories King Carlos.

3)
Here is a hilarious link from a female Russian Engineer and her take on art and Engineering co-existing. You will all say after going through her pictures that you know where her mind is at. ;-)

COMN for the link

I thought I would post this baseball article I wrote that just came out in the paper because it profiles a very unique pitcher - a left-handed, Canadian knuckle baller (plus I like to plug up and coming Canadian athletes). The kid has a great head on his shoulders and has high hopes for getting a scholarship (he's really smart too - computer science) to play at one of the junior colleges in the States and then transferring some where like Georgia Tech.... I edited the story a bit (so it would not be as long) so I hope it still reads OK.

Mitchell baseball pitcher Scott Van Gerwen was chosen as the Western Ontario Baseball Association (WOBA) Pitcher of the Year for the 2004 season.
Van Gerwen said, although he is not the hardest thrower, his success has come from being left handed, mixing his pitches effectively and knowing the value of pitching to contact. Throwing a knuckle ball - which has only been mastered by a handful of major league baseball players - does not hurt either, he said.
"If you get it to work, you’re the man," Van Gerwen said of his knuckler. "If you don’t, you’re turning and watching it fly over your head."
Van Gerwen, who described himself as a junk ball pitcher, has about 20 pitches in his arsenal but only five of which that he can effectively control.
Despite Van Gerwen’s junk ball mentality, Mitchell Minor Baseball president and coach Doug Wolfe said the lefty spins a pretty decent curveball and he keeps the batters off-balance because he understands the importance of changing speeds, which is one of the more difficult concepts for a young pitcher to understand.
"He thinks the game and he’s coachable," Wolfe said. "He’s the most dominating (pitcher) I’ve had here in a long time."
Wolfe also said that Van Gerwen is a big-game pitcher, who plays his best when he is in clutch situations.
The 18-year-old left handed pitcher, who stands six foot two inches tall, pitched more than 65 innings for the midgets and another 12 innings for the juniors. Wolfe said the award-winning pitcher played mostly outfield for the juniors so his arm did not get overworked.
Despite pitching against more experienced players in junior, Van Gerwen still fanned 19 batters in 12 innings. His earned run average jumped from 1.93 in midget to 4.09 in junior, but Van Gerwen said his numbers were inflated by one bad inning. In a game against Oakridge, he gave up seven runs in one inning.
When asked what the best way was to handle tough innings, Van Gerwen replied with a smile, "Don’t get into them.
"It’s definitely frustrating. If I’m not pitching well, then I try to get groundballs and let my defence handle it."
As for the biggest difference between pitching against midget and junior batters, Van Gerwen said the junior batters are a lot more adept at hitting mistakes.
He said he threw a hanging curveball in the junior OBA final that was hit off the outfield wall for a triple.
"But I retired the next three batters so it didn’t matter," he said.
Van Gerwen has made huge strides for a pitcher who took a year off baseball three years ago because he was not having fun anymore, only to realize how much the game really meant to him.
"There is no feeling like being on the mound at night with a little fog rolling in," he said wistfully. "It’s a little like the Field of Dreams. It’s pretty awesome."

http://p086.ezboard.com/fsonsofsamhornbostonredsox.showMessageRange?topicID=14279.topic&start=1&stop=20
Finally ... a reason for this long-time Yankee fan to not be totally distraught if so-called Red Sox Nation finally wins a ring: James J. Buckheit. What a well-written essay.

Along similar lines, a 'Win It For' thread at the Sons of Sam Horn that started a week ago (which I discovered today after reading Simmons' column) - COMN.

I don't think Bill Mueller for the Red Sox is much of a power hitter.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/041027
A bit from Simmons' column today (COMN):

Weird fact in case you missed it: The Celtics won their first championship against St. Louis (1957); the Bruins broke a 41-year Stanley Cup drought against St. Louis (1970); and the Patriots won their first Super Bowl against St. Louis (2002). Hey, I'm just the messenger.

Now THAT is freaky.

I found a few articles that might interest some readers:

Businessweek story about Bill Veeck
2004 Sporting News Awards

Enjoy!

I wonder what Austin Kearns would be like as a DH?

I also wonder if the Blue Jays have ever scouted Scott Van Gerwen?

At 18 years old, a friend of mine was pitching as the closer on the Canadian junior squad, bringing it with mid-80's heat and a phenomenal change up (for an 18 year old). At the world championships he was named pitcher of the tournament after posting a 0.69 ERA or something like that against teams including the Americans who I know for sure had one of the Boone brothers on it. To make a long story short, Marc was drafted in the zillionth round (around the 50 mark actually) and blew his arm out a couple of years later.

I wish Mr. Van Gerwen all the best and I really hope it works out but unfortunately...TNSTAAPP.

Austin Kearns most comparible player is George Bell!

And of course the Jays once talked about trying Bell at 3B - they did come to their senses, but Bell regularly took grounders at 3B and was regarded as the emergency 3B for a few years...

Anyway, these days 3B is definitely a power position. Fifteen ML 3B hit more than 20 HRs this past season, and nine slugged better than .500. Our man Hinske ranked 22nd in HRs and 21st in slugging. And alas, he doesn't really make up for it with his glove....

Delgado wants to come back to Toronto, but he's not going to do so at a reduced salary.

Delgado's taking a salary cut wherever he goes. He just doesn't want to advertise the fact...

I worry that next year won't be a lot of fun for Jays fans.

It will be more than fun than this year.

Seems really weird considering that the Jays are built as a team that would get on base and go for the three-run home run.

This team has been "built?" Not yet, anyway.

can the Jays at least promise they won't include Hinske's butt in next years marketing campaign?

Something everyone can agree on.

Ahh so the day as come that louder rumblings that Eric Hinske is no longer wanted in Toronto. I Always pictured Hinske as a type of Bernie Williams player, not outstanding at anything, but can hit for some power, has a good eye, can run well, good defensively, and has the ability to come up with big hits and good at bats when we need him. We don't need Eric to hit .300 or hit 30 home runs. We need him to walk a bit more and hit better with risp. Thats it. It can be done

...the current members of the Red Sox last month voted [Garciaparra] a full postseason share, the Boston Globe reported Tuesday.

The roughly 50 or so full playoff shares are expected to be around $200,000 each.

I believe it was Don Drysdale who once grumbled "I remember when a World Series share meant something. Now they just mess up your taxes."

The Yankees used to carry out contract negotiations by invoking the inevitable WS share as an excuse for giving Jim Bouton a $1500 dollar raise after he went 21-7.

"Sure its only $1500, but you'll get your WS share too..."

WS money won't mean much to Manny ($20.4 million) Ramirez. But Bronson Arroyo was paid $332 thousand this year, so its a big deal for him.

Hinske's career line is .257/.336/.430. If he hits his career average, that would be a useful contribution.

Last season, though, was an unqualified write-off for him. It's not just a few walks and a better average with runners in scoring position.

That would be a useful contribution but is a useful contribution for a player making between $3 and $5 million the next three years on a team with the payroll of the Jays?

Put another way, could you trade two Eric Hinskes and get one $6 to $10 million star like Delgado? I don't think you could do that even if Hinske WAS performing at his rookie of the year level, at least not with the contract he signed.

I think for a team like the Jays it's great to have young players come up and have an impact right away. But if you're going to sign them long term to significant dollars you better be sure they will be great for the money, not just good for the money.

Even if you assumed Hinske = Koskie (which the Jays would be thrilled with at this point), Hinske's $5.6 million in 2007 is more than the $4.5 million Koskie made in 2004, the last year of a long term deal signed when salaries weren't trending down. The only explanation is that they felt Hinske would be a GREAT player which is clearly very much in doubt.

Rafael Palmeiro is returning to Baltimore, and I'm at least mildly surprised. Not only the O's DH him in September to prevent his option from vesting (it was triggered by a defensive-games-played clause), but the Yankees were supposed to have been interested.

I guess he's just comfortable with his teammates and the city.

That should have read, of course, "Not only did the O's DH him..."

Could it be that the rest of the market thinks Delgado is going to stay in TO? I thought Baltimore was a pretty strong suiter for Delgado, though I guess it could still happen. Can't see Delgado wanting to play DH 75-80 times a year (or more) though.

I agree. With 20-20 hindsight, the decision to offer long-term contracts to Hinske and Wells has definitely had mixed results at best.

But those moves have long since been made, and the question for the organization is what are they going to do about Hinske now. There are no obvious answers.

I'm guessing the O's are still in the market for a new man at 1B though. If they get someone good they're pretty set with an infield of Roberts, Tejada, Mora, Free Agent, and Palmeiro at DH.

The Jays only hope might be to go the outfield route to find their power. Though I would be unthrilled with Catalanatto playing 1B. He should DH with a real 1B type brought in.

Rafael Palmeiro is returning to Baltimore

So is Delgado less likely to sign with the O's? He could still go there, but without Raffy, Baltimore would be much more inclined to throw money at him.

Last season, though, was an unqualified write-off for [Hinske.]

No kidding. That was a baffling year for Hinske. Check out these stats, Career and 2004:
AVG: .257, .246
OBP: .336, .312
SLG: .430, .375
ISD: .079, .066
ISO: .173, .129
BB/K: 0.54, 0.50
And just for fun:
SB%: 92, 77.

For what it's worth, his BB/K ratio is more steady than anything else: 0.56, 0.57, 0.50 over his career.
What's the opposite of a career year? Can we dub it the Hinske year, or is there another player with an even worse reverse-peak season? There probably is somewhere...

I'll throw this out there for discussion: Would the Red Sox have won the 2004 World Series if they had hired Billy Beane in fall 2002?

According to Michael Lewis, Beane had the following plan in place for the Red Sox:

* Trade Shea Hillenbrand
* Sign Edgardo Alfonzo to play second
* Sign Bill Mueller to play third
* Trade Jason Varitek
* Sign Mark Johnson to catch
* Permanently make Manny Ramirez the DH, sign a better glove for LF
* Send Kevin Youkilis to Oakland as compensation for Beane

Theo Epstein made two of these moves, but I would submit that -- against the odds, to be sure -- the Red Sox are better off having been rejected by Billy Beane.

They still have Varitek and Youkilis, and with Manny DHing they may not have pursued David Ortiz as aggressively.

What really grabs me about the contract is Wells is making 14.7 million over the five-year period, and Hinske is making 14.75 Hands up, who would pay Hinske more than Wells?
I know, I know, they signed him right after his ROY season, so his value was higher.

Completely Implausible Theory Following:

If "Skee" has a really good season in '05, but Hill tears up AAA, do you trade him (Hinske)? I'm talking a .300/.400/.500 season from both men. Improbable, but please, indulge me.

Hinske will be locked up for two years guaranteed at $4.3 MM and $5.6 MM, coming off a great year, and he's a former Rookie of the Year. What could the Jays get for that?

If "Skee" has a really good season in '05, but Hill tears up AAA, do you trade him (Hinske)? I'm talking a .300/.400/.500 season from both men. Improbable, but please, indulge me.

I wouldn't hesitate if the needs of the club were met. It depends on how Adams and Hudson do, as well.

I think Aaron Hill will take over 3B for many years in Toronto, but that's just because I'm a huge Hill fan. Blame Mike Murphy from WKXL, he made him sound as dreamy as Jetes. ;)

He only hit .279/.368/.410 in New Hampshire, but you could "explain away" that line with the following:
1) He's from California and played college ball at LSU. Would this April in Manchester be his first time in cold weather while playing ball? I don't think it would be very comfortable.
2) Only his first full pro season.
3) Have you seen Gill Stadium? It makes the Oakland foul territory look like nothing.

This has been your "Vote for Hill" message for the day.

http://www.pataky.net/Ballparks/AA/EL/Manchester/47.html
COMN for an even better shot of the foul territory at Gill; thanks to Kevin Pataky for both pictures.

http://www.pataky.net/Ballparks/AA/EL/Manchester/47.html
Cool stuff Rob. The reviewer only gives the park a 2 out of 10 and lists it as easily the worst park in the Eastern League. But hey they're getting a new stadium next year. A few neat little tidbits in that stadium link. For instance:

"Although these advertisements [on the outfield wall] only rotate between innings, the players still don't like them. Justin Singleton told me they are too close to the batting eye and are an extreme distraction."

"The company that installed the turf, Southwest Recreational Industries, filed for bankruptcy shortly after the installation on this field this past winter. The synthetic soil hasn’t yet settled into the turf and has posed early challenges for infielders. Sharply hit baseballs make a splashing effect - and while sitting in the stands there is a prominent smell of rubber."

Also a good shot of right foul territory COMN.

http://www.pataky.net/Ballparks/AA/EL/Manchester/11.html
*Sigh* Too slow. COMN for a shot of the LF foul territory though.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/porraed01.shtml
Unrelated to absolutely everything:

Check out the place of birth for Edmund Joseph Porray, who pitched 10 innings for the 1914 Buffalo Buffeds in the Federal League.

COMN in above post, if you didn't figure it out...

Best birthplace ever.....

Since most people are shifting their attention to the game thread now, I think it's okay to ask this:

Does anyone have NHL 2005 for ps2? How is it and more importantly is it worth me buying it?

Does anyone have NHL 2005 for ps2? How is it and more importantly is it worth me buying it?

All my PS2 time and money will now be diverted to the new GTA: San Andreas for the foreseeable future---as should your time and money.

Normaly that would be an easy decision, but since one of my loser friends bought GTA, I'll just nab it from him when he's not looking. But he already has two hockey games, so he's not getting 2005 and now I must make the choice.

Is "San Andreas" really going to be as amazing as they say?

'Cause...I have the first two games (well, 3rd and 4th, technically) and it's going to be hard to top them.

Apologies to anyone over 30, we realize these games are destroying the youth of today. ;)

I guess the strike effected hockey more than I thought...does no one have nhl 2005? Sure it's no MVP, but I just wanna know if its worth the money.

I have GTA 1, 3, Vice City and just bought San Andreas yesterday and my first impression is that it is the best of them so far!

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neel/041027
NFH:

A little SportsClix column for you to revel in (COMN). Eric Neel goes all-out on this one. I just might buy them after reading it, any suggestions on how to build the next dynasty?

the foul territory at Gill

What is that place? A football field? A golf course?

don't worry Rob, I already emailed him as soon as I saw it ;)

Check out the place of birth for Edmund Joseph Porray, who pitched 10 innings for the 1914 Buffalo Buffeds in the Federal League.

Back then it was a lot more common than you'd think. As an aside, I know someone who was born on an airplane.

I also know a married couple who met when they were trapped on an elevator that was stuck between floors.

So all those 80's sitcom cliches *do* happen in real life. :)

What is that place? A football field? A golf course?

I call it "Gill National Park." Luckily, they will play at a new stadium next year, named...something. Anyone remember?

Back then it was a lot more common than you'd think. As an aside, I know someone who was born on an airplane.

Boy, that would be something. Who would deliver such a baby? The copilot? Imagine if they hit some turbulence; someone would yell "YOU'RE RISKING A PATIENT'S LIFE!" :)

I actually get to see those ads, by the way. I have an antenna in my room, so the mean people at Cogeco can't impose "G.D. ARENA FOOTBALL" on me when I'm watching the World Series. Although, if you don't live in Borington, you wouldn't know how annoying Cogeco is. Think Rogers, but less customer service and no baseball team.

Apologies to anyone over 30, we realize these games are destroying the youth of today.

That's O.K., then, Rob: just so you know what it's doing. (I'm pleased to see, too, that you--like Moffatt--are working on your spelling.)

Do any of the San Andreas owners know if there's an early 90's alt-rock station in the game? Probably my favourite musical "genre".

(I'm pleased to see, too, that you--like Moffatt--are working on your spelling.)

Oh ya? Come hear a minute, nobodie talks like that to me! ;)

Jobu,

Hockey isn't exactly my thing, but I've had both NHL '04 and '05, and frankly it's not worth your money. In fact, it's quite frankly a big step backwards for the franchise. Ride out '04 and buy it when it drops to about $20.

Thing is I dont have 2004, in fact, I dont have any hockey game. So I take it this one aint to fun? ESPN hockey is supposed to be released with a selling price of 30 bucks. Thats not bad. Might just get that then.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/sports/nhl2005/review.html
I have NHL 2004 and it's pretty good. Haven't played '05, but here's a review of it for you -- all four pages of it. COMN, it's 7.9/10. NHL 2004 was 8.8 and 2003 was 8.3, for comparison. This is the same site that convinced me to buy (or not buy) a few games, so I think it's pretty accurate.

So whoever writes these things agrees with Fozzy: '05 not as good as '04.

The review teaser: Make no mistake. NHL 2005 is still a solid game of hockey--but it shouldn't be your first choice for one.

Yea, Gill Stadium doubles as the local high school team's football field. Makes the sightlines at the Dome look alot better.

ESPN is only $20 here :).

20 bucks makes for a convincing argument...

In a completely unrelated note, I just saw that the Orioles resigned rafael palmeiro. Hopefully this means that there is one less potential suitor for Delgado out there.

Reading the Baltimore Sun they re-signed Palmeiro ($3 million) to DH and are looking at a 1B, mentioning Delgado and Sexson.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/leagues/HS_amateur/041027wwba20.html
In AFL news, Hill and Hattig hit homers yesterday for the Saguaros. Big Vito did not play. Jason Arnold started and took the loss, giving up 4 runs in the 3rd with a 3-run homer the key blow. There were some positives though; he walked one and struck out 5 in 4 innings of work.

BA has an interesting article on high-school prospects. COMN. #6 David Adams fits right into our discussion of yesterday concerning what you want in a third baseman. It'll be interesting to watch where he ends up.

Ismael Ramirez, last seen having some fun in the FSL (131/25 K/BB),is now in the Venezualan Winter League and pitched for the Oriente Carires yesterday; putting up the following line:

IP   H   R  ER  BB   K 
5.0  1   0   0   1   5 

Am I correct in assuming Izzy will be in New Hampshire next year?

Am I correct in assuming Izzy will be in New Hampshire next year?

I would assume so, provided he's still in the organization after the Rule 5 draft. More to come on that in the next few weeks.

One assumes the Jays will purchase Ramirez's contract. Seems a bit risky not to protect a AA ready starter who is performing well in the command department and has enough stuff to get by. I also wouldn't take a chance on losing a guy like Davis Romero as a team could hide him in the bullpen as the Brewers did with Matt Ford.

I was surprised that the Jays did not outright one or two more players from the 40-man. Near as I can tell all of Arnold, Frederick, Glynn, and Miller made the cut as did Cash and Griffin. I have to believe most if not all of those guys were on the bubble.

I guess the Jays have it all worked out as to how many empty spaces they need to protect newly eligible players and add required free agents.

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/mlb/news/AAN3572343.htm
(Cross posted from Red Sox thread)

Free agent list is up. COMN; includes Carlos, Pedro, Beltran, Beltre.

Even better list here.

TORONTO (6): Dave Berg, of; Valerio de los Santos, lhp; Carlos Delgado, 1b; Chris Gomez, ss; Greg Myers, c; Gregg Zaun, c.