To keep the the topic going here is my last post from the round up thread....

"YOU HAVE BEEN TRADED - GO DIRECTLY TO MILWAUKEE."

YOU WIN SECOND PRIZE IN A BEAUTY CONTEST AND THIRD PLACE IN THE AL EAST - COLLECT $10"

LMAO CRAIG !!! I think you have a start on a new game of Monopoly.

The Jays edition of Monopoly by Craig B " the car is mine or I will sue you , Jobu " pee on the car" and Moffat"Soon to be called Prof God Moffat next summer by his students".

On the pre-pre-game show, Mike Wilner confirmed the Marty York story. David Sloane says that there is a legitimate chance that Carlos Delgado will return to Toronto. As has been reported elsewhere, he is negotiating directly with Paul Godfrey.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article.jsp?content=20041021_152050_5112
League's a no-show, Jason Frasor has joined the booth.

I have to call Wilner out on this one -- unless there have been further developments, the only story re: Sloane and Godfrey was the Marty York one at Sportsnet.ca (COMN), which said Sloane was "optimistic" about signing with Toronto, but if you look at the quote, I don't think it means anything.

Of course I want to be proved wrong. I just don't think Delgado will be back.

I could see that happening. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the "Powers That Be" in the Jays organization decided they had to bring Delgado back, more to do with marketing the team than with any on the field considerations.

Had the Jays done well this year, I'm not sure this would be happening. But it'd be otherwise impossible to market a team that lost nearly 100 games, finished in last, and just lost the best player they ever had.

Mike Wilner confirmed the Marty York story. David Sloane says that there is a legitimate chance that Carlos Delgado will return to Toronto. As has been reported elsewhere, he is negotiating directly with Paul Godfrey.

This is an excellent development. Delgado is Toronto baseball, and I think he has better years in him yet.

From a marketing standpoint, and a public relations standpoint, there is some benefit to giving Carlos Delgado a special "franchise player" type contract.

It could be sold as part of a committment to winning and to rewarding Carlos for his loyal service to the team.

The flip side to that, however, is the fans would have to respond by going to the games or the concept would not likely be employed again. The team would have to win some more games, and Carlos can't win them on his own, as we have seen. There would have to be a modest increase in the budget for the "marquee player" or JP's hands will be tied even tighter than ever.

There are so many variables at work here, that it's not entirely a re-sign Carlos or not re-sign Carlos issue.

That was pretty good...

Def a Web Jim.

Carlos Beltran won't be able to play in 2005, because no team will be able to afford him.

I don't like this, Delgado's contract being taken out of JP's hands. Does this mean that JP's budget is going to be reduced from 53 mil for 25 players to X mil for 24 players?

Why does this team even bother with a GM if control is going to be taken from his hands? If there is extra money available, why doesn't JP have it in his budget to make the decisions that he thinks are best in relation to player personnel? I've trashed JP on here in relation to Hinske, but if his job is GM, why isn't the ultimate decision in regards to Delgado in his court?

That man (Beltran) is unreal

Tyler, I think it has more to do with marketing the team than anything else and in cases like this I think it's excusable.

Delgado is a special case because of his ability, his personality, his history with the team, etc. From a PR standpoint it might be worth it financially to give him the extra million or two over the budget because of the effect on ticket sales and merchandise. Or rather the perceived negative effect if they don't re-sign him.

Why does this team even bother with a GM if control is going to be taken from his hands?

I doubt if its a matter of control being taken out of Ricciardi's hands. I very much doubt if a single conversation happens between Sloane and Godfrey that he is not brought up to speed on. And I doubt very much that these conversation would be taking place at all unless a:) Ricciardi would like to see Delgado playing 1B next year and beyond; b) Ricciardi recognizes that this is going to be a special and complex process.

Its actually nothing new. Circa say 1990, Gord Ash did the Jays negotiations with the Turner Wards of the world; Gillick dealt for the most part with the rest of the roster, but Paul Beeston normally got involved when it came to the big ticket free agents: Jack Morris, Paul Molitor, Dave Stewart. There are no one-man operations, the job is too big.

I don't buy this marketing the team nonsense. Not at all. Consider this. Let's say that Delgado gets 10 mil a year from the Jays to stay in Toronto. Is he going to generate that in ticket revenue? Of course not. The only way he generates that money for the team is if the team wins. Is signing Delgado the best way to make sure the team wins? I don't know, but I suspect Paul Godfrey doesn't really know either. If there is money available, give it to JP to spend, and let him make the decisions on the best way to win.

Seinfeld was right, people cheer for laundry. The bodies inside the laundry are just incidental. If the laundry wins, they will come.

Delgado is the team's best player and they have a much better chance of winning with him in the lineup. If I can figure this out, so can Ricciardi.

In a sense, it makes perfect sense for Godfrey to be the point man on this negotiation because there are two other people who have to sign off on any agreement: Ted Rogers and J.P. Ricciardi.

There is no way Delgado can be accomodated within Ricciardi's plan for a $ 53 million budget. They will have to go over, and Ted Rogers will have to OK that.

In which case, Ricciardi is unlikely to get $53 million to spend on the other 24 spots. He's going to have to be OK with whatever arrangement they make. And the arrangement is going to have to go forward for as long as the contract runs.

Neither Ricciardi nor Rogers can actually speak for the other guy in this process - Godfrey is the logical go-between.

If there is money available, give it to JP to spend, and let him make the decisions on the best way to win.

But I dont think this money is really available. I may be totally wrong here but the way I look at it is minimizing losses. How much will the negative publicity of losing Delgado effect the team's bottom line? I dont know but they probably have some pretty good estimates and I would think that it's similar to the amount their willing to go overbudget to sign him. Which is going to make the team better: Giving JP $7M to play with Or having Delgado? I wouldnt think the team would be going ahead with this if JP preferred option A.

Wow.. is anyone watching this game at all?

I find it funny that when the Yankees play a game, we have a huge audience who is really into the game and discussing the sports. Yet many people think the Yankees are bad for baseball. That's always seemed strange to me.

I've been listening while on the road. Suppan's been in trouble from the beginning, but with the help of his defence, he's still in there. It's easy to see why the Cards had such a great season despite having uninspiring pitching.

I'm watching the game, but unlike the interminable nature of any Yankees post-season game (a 4 hour game is swift by their standards), this one is compelling and fast-paced. I'm much less inclined to leave the TV and post something.

I'd be curious to know if the MLB deal with XM has any impact on the Jays re-signing Delgado. This deal should give each team approximately $1.5 - $2.0 million next year, which essentially would be 'found' money for the Jays.

I'm much less inclined to leave the TV and post something.

Is it bad that I have a tv and my computer right next to each other and can watch the game, post, and play poker online?

I'm watching the game, but unlike the interminable nature of any Yankees post-season game (a 4 hour game is swift by their standards), this one is compelling and fast-paced. I'm much less inclined to leave the TV and post something.

While that may be the case for you, I very much doubt that's what's going on to the other dozens of posters. I'm sure the TV rating bear that out.

And, no, Pistol, that's not that bad. I'm on my laptop in the living room... I'm still working and it's 10:30 at night. That's bad!

Stunned...

If it weren't for me being a Diehard Seahawks fan, I'd actually be rooting for the Cards. But since I hate the Rams, and the city of St. Louis as a whole, it forces me to hate the Cards as well.

Hopefully the Stros can come up with 2 runs before this one is over.

Dang, Cards in the lead. I suspect the big moment is done now. St Louis vs Boston. Sigh. I so wanted to see Clemens pitching in relief in game 7, bottom of the ninth, Houston ahead by 1 with a runner on, two out, and seeing what happens. Guess it could still happen.

I was more into the Yankees-Red Sox series because they play in the AL, because I've seen both teams more, and because how they do has a psychological impact on what the two teams do in the off-season and therefore affects the Jays' chances. I'm not saying that the Astros and Cardinals don't deserve my attention; it's just that I don't have as much of a connection with what they're up to.

Yeah, I'm only working in the sense that I'm a 'pro' poker player.

Sadly, I don't think I make minimum wage playing. Of course it's tax free!

I like both teams but like the Cardinals a little more. Mostly, I want the see the winning team celebrate in their home park.

Too many fastballs might have cost Roger a shot at the Red Sox.

In the span of 5 seconds, I went from "I must watch this now" (Pujols up, Cedeno on third) to "Maybe I'll just keep following the game on Gamecast" (Rolen homers off of Clemens).

Honestly, though, I'm really burned out after watching the Yankees / Red Sox series. After watching what seemed to be 100 hours of baseball in the span of 5 days, I need a day off, so that I can be refreshed by the time the Series started. It's really a shame, though, because the Pujols / Beltran and Clemens pitching another game seven aspects would normally make this an amazing LCS, but the Boston / NY series just eclipsed it.

Who does everyone think has a better chance of beating the Bo-Sox?

I'm gonna have to go with the 'Stros here.

IMO, Clemens and Oswalt is as nasty a 1-2 punch as there is in baseball and then Backe's pretty good if he can master his stuff. Although the Cards have the better offense, it isn't by much and the Astros can still flat out rip.

Add to that that Beltran is absolutly on fire, and I think the Stros have the better team when it comes to matching up with Boston.

That's a tough one, Caino. These are both very good teams with some very obvious flaws. I like the Cardinals a bit better, but it's close.

"Honestly, though, I'm really burned out after watching the Yankees / Red Sox series. After watching what seemed to be 100 hours of baseball in the span of 5 days, I need a day off, so that I can be refreshed by the time the Series started."

I agree 100%. Especially due to the all nighters I pulled to compensate for lost study time while watching the series.

Rolen's shot reminded me of #62.

I was listening to the radio broadcast when Duncan came out to visit Suppan early on. The colour guy made reference to the two previous times Duncan visited Suppan in the playoffs, after which both times Suppan settled right down, didn't allow any more runs, and finished strongly.

After retiring the last 14 batters in his first start, and the last 10 in his second start, he finishes this one with nine straight. Nice.

It's hard to say. In my mind, it comes down to pitching.

You have Backe / Munro / Clemens / Oswalt / Lidge going up against Morris / Williams / Suppan / Marquis / Isringhausen. Both teams have questionable bullpens (starring Dan "Byung-Hyun Kim in waiting" Miceli and Julian "the Kevin Brown of the NL Central" Tavarez), and incredible offensive weapons.

I'd rather see Houston, but that's only to see Clemens / Bagwell / Biggio / Beltran against the Red Sox.

Wow, now I'm really hoping it's Houston and Boston.

A battle of the two players, who in my mind, have turned in the gutsiest performances of this years postseason.

Brad Lidge and Keith Foulke. Combined, they have logged a total of 1,000 IP this postseason. All with 0 days rest ;)

I agree 100%. Especially due to the all nighters I pulled to compensate for lost study time while watching the series.


Ugh, don't remind me. I remember justify watching games because "they'd only go 4, 4 1/2 hours tops". Shows what I know. I had an essay due today, and I tell ya, if my lecture was at 10:00 AM today instead of 3 PM, I'd have been in trouble.

There are any number of reasons I'm rooting for the Cards, from giving Larry Walker a chance to shine in the WS to returning the World Series to the best baseball city.

Above all, though, I really don't like the idea of a fourth Wildcard team winning the World Series. An Astros win would mean that five of the last six League Champions were wildcard teams. How "fair" is that?

An Astros win would mean that five of the last six League Champions were wildcard teams. How "fair" is that?

How is it not fair?

"Above all, though, I really don't like the idea of a fourth Wildcard team winning the World Series. An Astros win would mean that five of the last six League Champions were wildcard teams. How "fair" is that?"

I'd love it! If only division winners ever won the Stanley Cup I'd quit watching hockey.

How "fair" is that?

Entirely? Why should Boston (.605) not make the playoffs when Minnesota (.568 in the worst division in baseball) and Anaheim (.568) do?

Again not putting in the closer for the heart of the oder. I really don't get why managers do this.

So it worked. Doesn't mean it's a smart idea.

I just think it's cheezy that the Astros who, playing the same schedule were far inferior to the Cardinals, get the chance to knock them out. While home field may have been the difference in the series, I'd prefer a system where the wildcard doesn't start on equal footing. (The add a second WC, have them play a 1-game playoff sounds great to me).

Just a personal preference, obviously.

I agree with you, G.T. So it's a shared preference. :)

I agree with the two wild card idea.

Wow.. is anyone watching this game at all?

Sorry Moffat - I was spending some quality time with a member of the fairer sex :)

I was kinda hoping for the 'Stros, mostly so we can see more of Beltran, but I can live with the Cards, presuming Issy doesnt melt down completely here.

I was spending some quality time with a member of the fairer sex :)

As long as it was quality time.

ONE STRIKE AWAY!!!

The game can't be over... its only 11:13.... Yankee games are only in the 3rd inning by this point....

YESSSSS! I can't wait for this World Series!

Heh. Pujols was dragging Tavarez away from the dogpile so he wont hurt his hand anymore than it already is.

As long as it was quality time.

Mais bien sur, M. Mo Phat. Here at Jsoh Inc, Quality Time is at least job 5. Maybe 6.

It'll be an excellent World Series. I can't wait.

A rematch of the '67 series.

Is that a new trophy?

I guess Carlos Beltran will have something in common with his new team (the Yankees) next year, what it's like to lose a 7 game series that you could have won. I can't say I feel sorry for Clemens, he can let the door hit his ass on the way out.

I think the World Series will go the limit but it's too close to call.

being a Diehard Seahawks fan

Wow, another Seahawks/Jays fan! Sweet. I can't say I'm nearly as involved with the 'Hawks as I am with the Jays though.

Anyway, the ALCS really dwarfed a great series in the NL. Only 6 times has an NLCS game ever ended on a walkoff HR, and two of them were games 5 and 6 of this series. The WS will really be awesome. In my opinion the best team in each league.

And Edmonds is absolutely amazing. I argued against Willie Mays' catch about a month ago, and I think tonight was another example of a better catch. Pretty clutch situation too. Saved at least 2 runs in a Game 7 of the NLCS.

Wow, another Seahawks/Jays fan!
make it three.

"Wow, another Seahawks/Jays fan!"
make it four.

Just kidding...

Jobu-nice. Braby-not as nice. :=) Now if anyone can make it a Jays/Seahawks/Sabres trio, I'd be really impressed.

Sabres?

You're on your own for that one buddy.... But enjoy your consolation prize in the ejection pool!

I don't follow the NFL much at all outside of my fantasy team, but when I do cheer for/follow a team, it's always the Seahawks.

So you can sort of make that four. Three and a half?

Anways, it's Jays/Canucks/Seahawks.

Ryan, you may also claim your consolation prize :)

Tangent to Moffatt's observation about the paucity of posters, I find it very telling that, after the historic Red Sox miracle comeback victory, there are three or four references in this thread to some form of the phrase "Yankees playoff games."

Mick, I only see one?

Unless you think it's bad when people say Yankees/RedSox instead of RedSox/Yankees.

I'm an Eagles/Seahawks fan, so make it four.