See, if I'd just read Mike D's excellent Advance Scout, I wouldn't pose myself easily answerable questions like that.

Chen was actually traded to the O's for the infamous Player to be named later after stinking it up real good in Syracuse for a few weeks. The staff in Ottawa must have seen something they thought they could fix when he pitched against them. Good pickup by them even if he is released at the end of the season.

Anybody know why?

I think it's because of the consecutive number of days the Orioles have had to play. I believe the maximum number is 23 games without a day off.

Helluva play by Adams. Faulds said he went "about a $12 cab ride" to get that fly ball.

Here's a trade idea to ponder....

Lilly and Adams for Zito.

You think Beane and JP would consider this?

Well thankfully that inning came to an end...

5-0 Baltimore, bottom of the 1st.

I hope not. Lilly's pitching better in a tougher park and is considerably cheaper over the next two years.

Why is that a good trade for either side, Ron? Oakland doesn't need a shortstop, and the Jays sure don't want Zito's salary when they have Lilly at substantially under market value.

What a disastrous inning for Miller. Five days after being nearly unhittable, he's leaving everything up. Until that last start, I was sure his problems were physical. Tonight, it's hard not to conclude that they are in his head.

Sean "BB" Douglass is in the game now.

Why is that a good trade for either side, Ron? Oakland doesn't need a shortstop, and the Jays sure don't want Zito's salary when they have Lilly at substantially under market value.

I'm thinking Adams fielding isn't good enough for SS so the A's could move him to 2nd. The Jays have Aaron Hill cominp up through the system and we might see him with the Jays sometime next season.

Lilly only has one more year left on his deal then he can walk. Of course this all depends how much Zito wants on his new deal but I believe his value has been damaged a bit the past 2 seasons. If this trade went through I would expect Beane to flip Redman to some other team and promote Blanton.

Ron, Adams might not be great at SS, but really what other options at that position do we have? Right now I see Adams as the best option bar none.

Woodward? PLEASE GOD NO. If he is our starting SS next year we have HUGE problems. Gomez? definately not.

Lilly for Zito is a pretty lateral move at this point... Zito hasn't shown hes going to be in suberb form next year and hes pretty damned expensive. Not worth the extra cash.

Lilly's deal is only for 2 years but he's only arbitration eligible the year after that. He can't walk until after 2006. He'll get 3.1 next year andy maybe $6-7 million in arbitration in 2006. Zito is due to get about 5.5 and 8.2 million (option year). Then they are both free agents at the same time.

Weird fact: these two teams have an off-day tomorrow, then finish the series Wednesday and Thursday. Anybody know why?

I've stopped understanding why the schedule makers do what they do. Why aren't the Jays at home on Canadian holidays, and why do they play at home on Memorial Day?

The World Cup hockey final is on Tuesday, and maybe the Jays figured that everybody in Toronto would be watching that.

Or maybe the SkyDome has a lucrative rock concert booked or something.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the relative qualities of the Jays' manager and the Orioles' #9 hitter. I know they've been in the same game before, but this is the first time as manager-player, not coach-player.

Does Douglass piss anyone else off?

I see this guy who has a NASTY NASTY FB, Amazing movement on it, but he gets hit VERY hard all the time.

He throws very predictably, doesn't locate very well and doesn't seem to use his head, doesn't change speeds or use breaking pitches nearly enough.

He needs to get his head screwed on right and stop being such a waste of talent.

Hmm, maybe Justin is hurting again. Since Gibby let him finish the first, I was expecting to see him start the second.

The time to consider trading Lilly (for someone cheaper, not more expensive) is in 2006, when some of the younger arms might be ready to join Doc and Bush in the rotation.

Cat joined the TV crew by phone, but didn't have time to say much, other than he's happy. I should think so.

He needs to get his head screwed on right and stop being such a waste of talent.

Apparently all Douglass needed to toss five scoreless innings was that encouraging pep talk. It's such an easy game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1880247
Ron -- COMN for Gammons' most recent article. In it he states: "Why do you think Mark Ellis is so important to the A's? The only AL second baseman who grades out higher than Ellis is Pokey Reese. Oh, yes." I don't believe they are looking for any second basemen, if (IF) Peter Gammons is to be believed.

On a day when we have "Cat Power" and "Birdfight" threads, there can be only one hero-the O-Dog :)

Douglass is pitching against his former team. Nothing like a little incentive.

Quiroz had a good rip at that; nearly yanked it out of the park though it was in on his fists a bit. It goes as a long out that completely fooled Rob Faulds, but there are some homers in this young man's future. He has a short, quick stroke that reminds a fellow of Pudge Rodriguez.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/tor/stats/bycategory?cat=Pitching&type=0
You know what, I just realized something.

Out of all the pitchers who have pitched for the Jays this season, who do you think has the best ERA?

The answer: Terry Adams. Bleh.

Well, actually, it's Frank Menechino, but he doesn't count.

Oops, I pressed "submit post" prematurely. I meant to ask: Is Justin Miller injured again? I missed the game today, but it's odd to see a pitcher finish the first inning and not come out for the second, even if he was horrible. It looks like Douglass did a nice job, though.

So, yeah, is Miller hurt?

The Baltimore Orioles are killing us, with a pitcher who wasn't even good enough to make our team DOMINATING us.

Doesn't this all feel like an awful joke?

Ryan, I've been listening off and on to the TV call and haven't heard anything about Miller being hurt. Pure speculation on my part, until the reporters get the postgame quotes. Knowing Justin, he'll just say he stunk, even if he was uncomfortable out there.

It sure was a stinker of a ball game. Miller's ineffectiveness dug the Jays a hole and Chen wouldn't let them climb out of it. I kept waiting for Bruce to hit the wall, and he never did.

THX for the link James.

I'm reading that article and I clicked on Hattebergs name and I can't believe he's only K'ed 39 times in 480 AB's. That has to be the best percentage in the majors.

a pitcher who wasn't even good enough to make our team

Yeah, a guy who washed out of eight other organizations, frustrating everyone for a decade, may have finally got a handle on his own stuff. I wouldn't offer him a long-term deal just yet, but he pitched the game of his life tonight.

The Jays could be in for more of the same on Wednesday. Lefty Matt Riley, when he's healthy, has some wicked stuff. He was sharp against the Jays here last September, and superb in his latest, when he no-hit the Twins into the fifth and shut them out for seven innings.

I can't believe he's only K'ed 39 times in 480 AB's

Hatteberg rarely even swings and misses, Ron. Not sure where you can get the data, but he makes contact well over 90% of the time. Fouling off pitchers' pitches until you get one you can handle is kind of a lost art, but he's a master.

Ron, Hatteburg is top ten, but, there are a few better. Juan Pierre has 30 Ks in 579 at bats. Pierzynski, Sean Casey, Edgardo Alfonzo, Jason Kendall, Endy Chavez and Mark Loretta also just edge Hatty.

Well, that puts Hatteberg as best in the AL, doesn't it?

Actually Coach its not an easy game. But you know as well as I do that Douglass needs to get his act in gear if he wants to continue pitching for the Jays.

True there is no real formula for pitching, but thats not to say that pitching isn't a science.

He makes Bad decisions on a regular basis, throwing the wrong pitches and making mental mistakes.

Coach, I can understand your love for the team, but don't try to make drive-bys on me for expressing my opinion, not everyone needs to be a total homer on this site and some people need to learn to accept a little critisism.

http://me.woot.net
Miller's grandfather died yesterday; a guy can be forgiven for mental lapses after such an event.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1880521
COMN for Gammons news and notes

He reports JP is leaning towards brining back Gibby as manager.

I don't have much of an opinion on that right now.

At this point, I don't care if the Jays lose a lot of games the rest of the way; if they keep losing, they might get a better draft pick.

Quiroz looks raw, but he's clearly going to be a much better hitter than Kevin Cash. I think he's going to make it all the way.

I haven't seen much of Adams, but the talking heads keep saying that he looks comfortable out there, and I think he's already ahead of Woody at this point.

Losing Delgado is going to hurt, but I'm already starting to mentally detach from him, as I'm beginning to accept that he's going to be elsewhere next year. All I ask the baseball gods is that he go somewhere in the National League; it'll be bad enough losing him, but it'll be worse seeing him tee off on the Jays' bullpen, at SkyDome, as a member of the visiting team. Even the most masochistic of fans can only suffer so much. :-)

I can't believe he's only K'ed 39 times in 480 AB's

What I can't believe is how Barry Bonds hasn't come up in this conversation. He's only K'd 33 times! Granted it's only 331 official AB's, so it's right at 10%, but for a power hitter, that's absolutely amazing. He has 41 HR's, or 24% FEWER K's than HR's. Stunning. Yeah, and his BB/K ratio? 2nd best in the league is Todd Helton at 1.88. Bonds is at 6.15! The guy never ceases to amaze me.

I can't believe Bonds gets better with age.

It would be a crying shame if Bonds doesn't get every single vote for NL MVP this season.

You remove Bonds from the line-up and I have a hard time picturing the Giants winning 80 games.

some people need to learn to accept a little critisism

I love criticism, no matter how you spell it. Some people need to learn how to deliver it constructively. If you had said "Douglass needs to get his act in gear if he wants to continue pitching for the Jays" the first time, that's a perfectly valid opinion. And wouldn't we all have been happy when he proceeded to do just that for the next five innings?

"Stop being such a waste of talent" isn't criticism, it's vague whining. I have no obligation (or desire) to listen to that in silence. If you still want to lecture me about manners, please don't bore everyone else, just e-mail me. Perhaps, instead of you being an anonymous stranger, telling us who pisses you off, we can have a mutually respectful conversation. My door is always open.

"He throws very predictably, doesn't locate very well and doesn't seem to use his head, doesn't change speeds or use breaking pitches nearly enough."

I consider this a valid opinion.

I guess your blind homerism can't read entire posts.

re: Justin Miller

On the radio Howarth informed that Miller was pitching with "a heavy heart" because his grandfather passed away yesterday. The two were supposed to be very close. His family refused to let him miss his start because to miss the game is not what his grandfather would have wanted.

Miller was pitching with "a heavy heart"

How sad. My condolences to Justin and his family on their loss; it puts a mere game into perspective.

We don't usually "scoop" tomorrow's Roundup in the game threads, but Shi Davidi of Canadian Press filed this report in the Sun and here's Spencer Fordin's gamer from the Official Site.

You remove Bonds from the line-up and I have a hard time picturing the Giants winning 70 games.

I fixed that for you.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gameUpdate?gameId=240913107
Royals 17 - Yankees 3. Ouch.

Not only that, but apparently the Royals have Sil Campusano pitching for them, as per ESPN's Game Update! COMN. (I guess they never did fix that Camp/Campusano thing)

http://me.woot.net
Ahem.

With regards to Hatteberg, when Oakland was in town, Scott's note on the JumboTron was that he strikes out only once per ~15 plate appearances, the best rate in the AL.

CaramonLS, let's review what happened here:

You call Douglass 'Sean "BB" Douglass', then about 20 minutes later call him a waste of talent who's pissing you off. The whole time, Douglass is pitching fabulously (or so it seemed at the game). Coach points it out to you, and you have a little fit.

Come on. Douglass pitched a great game, and Coach posted a breezy little comment to try to get you to acknowledge his great outing, and you call that a "drive by" and accuse him of blind homerism.

Well, here's where I accuse you of the opposite, because no matter what Douglass did in that situation you'd still call him a waste. You had every opportunity to say "Hey, I was wrong, good on Douglass", but instead you took your anger out on Coach. Why you're angry that someone on the Jays performed well is beyond me, but hey, you obviously are, otherwise why would you freak out when Coach said "Apparently all Douglass needed to toss five scoreless innings was that encouraging pep talk", referring to your comment? Where is the insult there?

Right, the insult is that Douglass performed well and made you wrong.

Really, CaramonLS, if you can't take it don't dish it out. If you expect to be treated with respect, post with respect. You can be critical of a player's abilities without being personally insulting to them. Why it's considered homerism to think that is also beyond me, but perhaps you can enlighten all of us.

Hank by Proxy, you just have to recognise that the overwhelming majority of Blue Jays' fans seem to fall into two camps, the "Anything less than 162 regular seasons wins, 0.00 ERAs and 1.000/1.000/4.000 lines leading the league in RF, FLD% and all other defensive metrics, plus a flawless WS win is simply sucktastic" and the " and the "No matter what happens there's nothing to be concerned about whatever setbacks happen are not a big deal obviously we're in great shape and will contend next year."

The first camp is just so loud and insistant the second one gives up and goes off to do other things.

One of the reasons I read Battersbox but really no other Blue Jays' interweb items is that almost all Blue Jays sites are ruthlessly dominated by the first kind of "fan". Here is a sanctuary from the endless hoards proclaiming doom. But it's not perfect. Life on the interweb.

*readers may wish to note the above post contains some hyperbole.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/Toronto/2004/09/14/628975.html
Apparently Russ Adams is a fan of Ricky Henderson and has taken to referring to himself in the third person. COMN

"He looks like he has been out there for a while," Adams said. "He has been playing good defence. At the plate he seems to be on everything he swings at."

Alright so I'm poking fun at a typo. What else is there to do?

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?id=98653
COMN for a crazy (and scary) story from Oakland last night involving the Texas Rangers, some rowdy fans and a chair being thrown into the stands.

Weird fact: these two teams have an off-day tomorrow, then finish the series Wednesday and Thursday. Anybody know why?

MLB rules prohibit a team from playing more than 20 consecutive games without an off day. Monday night was the O's 20th straight.

MLB rules prohibit a team from playing more than 20 consecutive games without an off day. Monday night was the O's 20th straight.

So why not take Monday off instead, thus giving the O's only 19 straight games?

Whoa, whoa whoa. Look at the Orioles' schedule. If Thursday, September 9th, between the series at home vs Minnesota and New York doesn't count as an off-day, I don't know what is. And that was after 19 games with only 1 travel day (from Texas to Tampa) between them.

From the Advance Scout: "With a Tuesday off-day thoughtfully inserted to accommodate the World Cup of Hockey . . . " so the reason is just that the Jays didn't want Skydome to have only 6,000 fans.