Looking forward to tonight's game; JP's on the Fan right now.

The key for any team facing Escobar is to swing only at balls in the hitting zone and get his pitch count up.

Isn't that true of any starting pitcher? I'd be worried if everyone tried to 'Vlad' the ball :)

I was thinking the same thing Fozzy :)

Part of Escobar's success this season has been atributed to the fact that his forkball (splitter, same thing) starts off in the lower-middle part of the zone and just nosedives into the ground. It's a very tough pitch to lay off of when Kelvim's on, so I don't think it's as easy as it sounds to just be patient and only swing at balls in the zone.

We shall see. Esco has had problems at "The A", but before last night, so had Colon.

I'm really not expecting much from Miller on the other hand. It's been poor start after poor start since he's come off the DL. Hopefully he can do some damage control and atleast make it through 5 this time.

Did JP say anything interesting?

http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00002378.shtml#73posts
Ron: COMN for the Roundup thread's always-excellent BBRadio recap of the JP show.

Lineups:

Blue Jays	Angels
LF Johnson 2B Hudson CF Wells 1B Delgado RF Rios 3B Hinske C Zaun DH Gross SS Adams	SS Eckstein 1B Erstad RF Guerrero CF Anderson DH Glaus LF Guillen 2B Kennedy C B. Molina 3B Figgins

Jerry has an interview with Eric Crozier coming up on the pregame show.

THX for the link Alex, I would have missed that.

My guess on to-nites game Angels 7 Jays 4

The key for any team facing Escobar is to swing only at balls in the hitting zone and get his pitch count up.

Isn't that true of any starting pitcher? I'd be worried if everyone tried to 'Vlad' the ball :)

It's especially true against Escobar because of how much his stuff moves. It's really difficult to not chase pitches when you are behind in the count to him, because he tends to start stuff in the zone which then goes out of the zone.

Some pitchers don't really go far out of the hitting zone - they stay around the corners all the time, trying to induce the hitter to swing at a pitch that is not in a great spot to drive, but which is still a strike. Ecobar isn't one of those.

I wagered a nifty $50 with my local internet bookmaker that these Jays would win and the teams would total more then 9.5 runs. I'm giddy with anticipation.

Russ Adams is the pregame guest on tomorrow's show. Gomez will start at SS tomorrow, it's already been announced.

In the offseason Eric Crozier plans to take Calculus, the last class he needs to complete his degree in Architecture.

Great hustle by the ODog!

First Mientkewicz getting nailed by Delgado at Fenway and now Wells unloading on Esco!

Gotta love it!

Just sat down in time to see the "infield" double. Heads-up baserunning by the O-Dog. Then V-Dub steamrolls Kelvim. Cool.

Can we expect a fastball up and in now from Esco?

Vernon lowers the boom against Escobar!! What a hit. That's fairly ridiculous of the Angels to argue that Vernon did that on purpose. And Escobar would have no part of the apology from his long time teammate, what a jerk.

Yikes, that was maybe a 47 footer.

I wonder: How high would that wild pitch have bounced on the turf at SkyDome on a hot sunny day?

No way that was intentional; Vernon pulled up and altered his course to avoid him, but Escobar had the same idea. Fluke play.

Candiotti can't seem to decide between "Calvin" and "Calvim" but I haven't heard him get it right yet.

Comedy of errors; 1-0 Jays.

Delgado started out walking but was alert enough to hustle into second anyway.

Escobar is quite frankly, a scumbag. Whether or not he raped that girl or not doesn't factor in to the decision... if he was guilt, he's even more of a scumbag.

Wells is a standup guy, but he shouldn't have offered to help him up.

What a strange start to this game. Terrific attempt by Kennedy to get to the ball Vladdy couldn't find.

Both those "doubles" for the Jays were like payback for the ones that are hit like frozen ropes into the gap and some outfielder makes a brilliant catch to rob you. It's a funny game sometimes.

Up the coast a ways, Tim Hudson walked the first three batters and gave up two hits. Now he's walked another; bases loaded, just one out, already 3-0 and the A's will be glad to see the end of the Red Sox.

What an unusual first inning. I missed how Hudson got on base, but what followed included a batter/fielder collision on a foul ball, a cricket pitch, and a non-seeing-eye double for Delgado to score Hudson. Too soon to tell, but maybe this will trigger a Kelvim meltdown. ("non-seeing-eye double": the ball sees the spot between the fielders, one of the fielders doesn't see the ball, and apparently the other fielder doesn't see that the first fielder doesn't see the ball :-) )

Tim Hudson walked the first three batters

In other news, men from Mars have landed...

gid, Hudson hit a sharp one-hopper, the kind that he would have been able to field easily enough, but it went off the diving Kennedy's glove into shallow right. When everyone took their time picking it up, Orlando scooted into second.

In the what-else-is-new department, "Cy" Santana was awesome, the Astros won and the Marlins won.

Good job by Miller so far; the pitch he got Vlad on had a ton of movement, and everything is tailing down late. Escobar's been nasty too -- the split to Zaun was unfair.

Santana has just been sick this year.

233 K's to only 48 BB's in 202 innings. Has the lowest BA against by a wide margin. He's really young too.

I'm amazed at how the Twins keep on rolling after they are forced to trade away good players or lose FA's because they can't afford them.

Their drafting is arguably the best in the game (along with the A's).

Holy crap Figgins has a cannon. I never knew he could throw that hard.

Once again, an Angels pitcher throws a 3-1 changeup with the Toronto hitter obviously expecting the heat. That's the 3rd time that's happened this series already, so hopefully next time the situation pops up, they'll stay back on a possible change.

Not smart baserunning at all by Hudson. If your going to take a risk like that:

1) Don't hesitate and stop at 2nd
2) Don't slide past 3rd when Figgins misses the tag
3) Don't do it with a hot Delgado on deck

Still 1-0 Jays

Another one for the "I haven't seen that before" file... a 5-3-5 double play on a couple of cannon throws across the diamond. The only thing not to like was that the Jays were batting.

Didn't Bush start 9 up 9 down last night too before.........

A little too aggressive there, ODog. However, it looked to me like Erstad took his foot off 1st about three and a half seconds too early.

Yes he did Ron

Bush also threw only 32 pitches after 3 last night

Justin Miller has thrown 32 pitches after 3....

Let's hope the next 6 innings aren't anything like the last 6 from yesterday night.

That was poor baserunning by Hudson. Very little to gain with a large risk. If Figgins had cut in front of Eckstein to field a grounder and was running away from 3rd base then I'd understand it, but with him right there it wasn't a smart play. Hudson's made two heads-up baserunning plays this series, and one poor one.

Yahoo's boxscore has the DP going as follows: C Figgins-D Erstand-C Figgins-D Erstad-C Figgins. Now that would be one heck of a double play.

I like that baserunning by Hudson. I know you're never supposed to make the 1st or 3rd out at 3rd, but it took 2 perfect throws. If either is in the dirt from 120whatever feet, he's safe. He sure does hustle all the time.

Not to sound too much like a homer, but looking at the replay...

1) I don't think Erstad ever touched the bag.
2) I don't think Figgins got the tag down in time.

But Zarco, so what if he gets to third?

The difference between man on 3rd 2 out for Delgado and man on 2nd 2 out for Delgado is nothing, really. The odds of a Delgado infield hit are also slim, so it really doesn't matter if he's on 2nd or 3rd with the power hitter coming up.

Two things...

1) Figgins plays excellent defense and has a great arm.
2) Figgins missed the tag, but Hudson slid by the base and gave up and started walking to the dugout... he knew he was out.

Another bases loaded walk by Hudson, that's his 5th walk of the game and it's 4-0 Sox.

Bases loaded and 0 out with Dave Roberts coming up. It's official, the Red Sox officially OWN the A's.

Dave, I think the odds of a Escobar wild pitch are darn high. With lazy man Molina behind the plate anyone can uncork one, especially Kelvim. Not to mention an error or something else weird. You're generally right and I understand your point, but Hudson's probably safe 8 or 9 times out of 10 on that play.

hopefully next time the situation pops up, they'll stay back on a possible change

Dave, when you're guessing change, even a Jamie Moyer fastball will eat you up. You have absolutely no chance to "catch up" to heat from Colon or Escobar. That's why you should always sit on the express, intending to drive it hard the opposite way. Then, when you're fooled by something slower, it speeds up your bathead and you have a chance to pull it out of the park. The problem comes when you're trying to pull #1 -- then you're way too far in front of the change. Bottom line is, guys with 96+ gas and a hard-to-detect off-speed pitch are going to strike a lot of folks out no matter what approach they take.

Santana has just been sick this year.

Especially considering he was terrible in April and May. When he lost his first June start to the D-Rays, he walked four of them, giving him 23 BB to 61 K, with a 5.50 ERA and a 2-4 record for the season. The league was hitting .271 off him.

Since then, he has been Koufaxian. Groveish? Unit-like?

Lol, Coach, after creative adjectives like Koufaxian and Groveish, I gotta say I was expecting more for the Unit. Perhaps Unitarian or Unity or...OK, I guess I see why you chose -like.

Yikes, Escobar continues to mow down the Jays.

What an AB by Adams. He is bat on the ball master.

Doc, I would have used Unitarian if I'd thought of it. :)

Yahoo's boxscore has the DP going as follows: C Figgins-D Erstand-C Figgins-D Erstad-C Figgins. Now that would be one heck of a double play.

In rookie ball, which is for 8- and 9-year-olds hitting off a pitching machine, I once had an energetic RF who always backed up infield plays. On a single to right with a couple guys on base, he threw it in and several different rundowns ensued. My daughter, always a diligent scorer, recorded the double play as 9-6-3-4-1-5-2-5-9 -- the best part was, the RF who started it all tagged the second guy out at the plate!

Santana has been amazing this season.

It seems like every fifth day when I open up the Minnesota boxscore I see him go 7-8 innings, allowing 0-2 runs, strikeing out 10+. Since his horrible start, he has easily been the most consistent pitcher in the AL (majors?) I'm curious on where he ranks in average game score.

And yet, most people at ESPN still seem to think Mulder is the frontrunner for the Cy. Sigh, when will we get out of 1920?

Not anymore Ryan.

Suddenly, it seems as if though Curt Schilling has somehow leap-frogged into the lead for the Cy, as wrong as that may be.

I'm getting sick of Hudler just ignoring Santana and spewing forth crap about how great Schilling has been and how "clutch" he's been this season.

Oh, right. I forgot that Schilling passed Mulder in "wins."

*bangs head against wall*

I'm going to take a wild guess there, Coach:

9 on the single...
6-3-4-1 on the rundown between first and second, then the pitcher tags him out and goes to third, since that guy is trying to score...
5-2-5-9 is the rundown between third and home, with your energetic RF recording the putout.

Whatever happened, it must have been:
a) hard to fit on the scoresheet
b) good to see 9 year olds execute the "pickle play" so well, with 8 throws involved

Minor question: when the 3B threw home, I suppose the SS was not available to cover? I've never played organized ball, but usually, someone new takes over the base in a rundown, no?

Lovely job by Miller. I'm sure a lot of us got nervous with the leadoff walk, because he's had a tendency to hit the wall after three or four innings lately, but he pitched his way out of it.

Now 8-0 Boston. A's are wishing there was a mercy rule.

Hopefully some of these guys will notice Santana's work tonight, and say "Hey, this guy's 17-6, 2.85 ERA, 0.94 WHIP, 233 Ks." And hopefully make the connection that he's pitching a lot better than Schilling or Mulder.

I'm getting sick of Hudler just ignoring Santana and spewing forth crap about how great Schilling has been and how "clutch" he's been this season.

I'm sure Huddy is on the stick icky when pimping Schil over Santana.

Escobar is pitching real well, but this low strike is getting ridiculous. That pitch to Wells was at the bottom of the shins!

Or are they saying Wells swung at it?

Hopefully some of these guys will notice Santana's work tonight, and say "Hey, this guy's 17-6, 2.85 ERA, 0.94 WHIP, 233 Ks." And hopefully make the connection that he's pitching a lot better than Schilling or Mulder.

But he had a poor start to the season, while Mulder had a good start to the season. This means that Santana has been inconsistent and not clutch.

Or something. I can't even follow their logic anymore.

That's how I remember the play, Rob, and you've interpreted it well. I don't have the scoresheet handy. :)

The right fielder, once he knew he wouldn't be needed at first, hustled to back up the catcher. That was a great little team; we lost 1-0 to Burlington in the OBA quarter-finals, but went unbeaten in York Region and won four other tournaments in 1995, including the Canadian Open.

we lost 1-0 to Burlington in the OBA quarter-finals

See, now I feel bad. Had I played baseball on that team (I was 8 at the time) I would have been so bad, you guys would have won. I blame myself for not being good enough to suck on a team. ;)

**

Meanwhile, does anyone else notice that Miller has a "1" under the "H" column and a "6.0" under the IP column? I likes it.
I also notice Esco's 10 Ks. Not good, this Anaheim team won't stay at 0 for long.

Following here on Gameday, no cable...did "Skee" line that off Escobar's body or something, and it went right to Kennedy?

Man, I'm enjoying this. Second pitcher's duel of the night. I liked the idea of trying Miller in the bullpen because he sometimes seems incapable of concentrating and executing for seven or eight innings. Tonight, you can see why people are still high on him as a starter. He's shut down a very good team, and he's still got that sharp, late downward movement on everything.

Still, his stamina has been a question mark since he returned from the DL, and I'd have somebody throwing in the 'pen soon. Maybe Frederick; his last four outings have been pretty good. If Justin can get through one more, I think it should be Frasor setting up Speier.

Rob, I noticed but I didn't want to jinx him. Hehe.

Good for Kelvim though. He was (oddly) my favourite player when he was here. I was so sad when he signed with the Agnels in the offseason. We all knew he had this kind of talent.

I will never root against the Jays, but I like watching Escobar dominate, and if Anaheim can somehow catch Boston for the AL wild card...

Miller's only at 69 pitches...I'm curious as to how many pitches he was averaging before the injury.

Escobar's at 105. I think he'll be back for one more inning.

Rob, I noticed but I didn't want to jinx him. Hehe.

I didn't jinx Tattoo, did I? I thought that only applied to zeroes under the "H".

Great. If Miller implodes in the seventh, blame it on Rob.

miller's still throwing 93 mph. looking good. 1-2-3 7th.

Looks like you're off the hook, Rob. Three up-three down in the 7th.

Speier hasn't pitched since the third. Hopefully he can go two innings if needed. Sad to say, I have no confidence in anyone else with a one-run lead.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
Does Miller remind anyone else of Escobar? When he's on, he's just about unhittable, and when he's off, his first name becomes "F'N!" And there's talk of moving him to the pen... at least here.

Coach, if you ever want to take up the reigns of a rookie ball team again, I can hook you up.

I just got in and haven't seen the game but am awestruck. Whats the deal with Miller tonite? Cripes he couldn't get out of the fourth the past six starts averaging something like a walk or more an inning. How does a guy do this?

Woo-hoo! One pitch to Vladdy, upstairs when he was expecting downstairs, easy fly ball. Nice mix to GA, busting him inside then going away; they almost got him to chase the 1-2 but no problem, just make another perfect pitch. A bit lucky to get the 2-0 check-swing strike on Glaus, but they put him away, pounding him in, then getting him to roll over a slider to third. Brilliant inning by Miller and Zaun.

Jim, I have my hands full with older guys now in high school ball. I'd be happy to do occasional hitting clinics for any Rep age group, but don't really want to be in charge of another team. One's enough.

Oh my gosh, he's coming back...

Has Justin Miller EVER pitched into the 8th inning?

If Miller implodes in the seventh, blame it on Rob.

By popular demand, this offer has been extended through the eighth.

Good point. If Miller can get one more out, it will be his longest outing of the year.

When Miller has been healthy with his good control he has pitched into the 7th and 8th innings against some very tough teams. Tonight's the best I've seen his control since he came back from the long layoff. I have to wonder if his reintroduction to the big leagues would have gone much smoother if they had given him a real rehab assignment in the minors instead of two simulated games. As with Escobar you can't waste a potentially dominant starting arm in relief.

Not Frasor.

Hum. It's Miller vs the monkey here.

Another hit and I'd pull him, although that ball wasn't hit especially well.

Frasor is warming....is Speier hurt? I think Speier can get 5 outs if needed. Four outs now.

Go Tattoo Man

Hitting is timing, and pitching is upsetting timing. It's also getting them to hit your pitch, which is what Miller did to Guillen. That was a rare mistake to Kennedy; it was supposed to be either higher or further outside. Huge popup of Molina. Gigantic. Kennedy is going, going Zaun at second.

I gave Miller a standing ovation. My dog thinks I've lost it.

Yes! Tremendous throw by Zaun, tremendous tag by Adams. What a tremendous play by the tremendous Blue Jays.

Alright. Kennedy gets Zaunned down to end the inning.

By popular demand, this offer has been extended through the eighth.

Am I okay now?

Thank you, Zaun.

Rob, you are so clutch.

Ya spier.

now i feel better.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
Coach, true enough. Our organization is risking burnout with the number of coaches juggling two and three teams. One is plenty. My mighty Little Red Machine went down 5-2 tonight, despite not allowing a hit. We had some Justin-Miller-until-tonight control troubles.

May take you up on the clinic offer though.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com

Red begone

Relievers that wear goggles scare me. They're always good if they wear goggles.

While there may come a day when Miller, after "only" 94 pitches, could finish this, I completely support bringing in Speier. It won't be easy, though; there's speed, bat control and Vlad coming up.

I have a bad feeling with Spier coming in ............ hopefully I'm wrong!

Here comes J-Spy. Justin relieves Justin. Hmmmm, wonder if that's ever happened, a game with all Justins...

Relievers that wear goggles scare me. They're always good if they wear goggles.

High socks too. Don't forget the high socks. And long hair.

**

Coach, I'm thinking of joining a rec league next year (I'll be 18). Since you know quite a bit about the subject, I'll ask you: how hard do those guys throw, on average? I'm talking people my age, who (presumably) are not high-school or Rep caliber. I ask because I don't want to be stepping in there against anything too fast.

Ron, I would have had a worse feeling leaving in Miller. It would have been a shame for him to lose it after pitching so well. The important thing for Spy was to keep Figgy and Eck off the bases. So far, so good.

Yeah, baby!

Spy vs "first baseman" Erstad...come on!

My, this is nerve racking.

(Takes a deep breath)

Full count...not liking this Speier, come on...

Work fast, throw strikes. Superb job, Justin and Justin. Sweet win against a very good club.

Wow, sure glad I got home in time to see the last two innings of this beauty.

Yahoo!

Gee, it looks like Escobar hasn't learned how to win! ;)
Thanks to Kennedy and Vlad for the "double."

WooHoo!! Great win. How many games have the Jays won 1-0 this year? Doesnt seem like very many.

No Rally for you!

Can the Tattoo Man turn it around?

Yes.

YES! (Exhale)

Maybe Kerry Ligtenberg should don a pair of goggles.

I smell a photoshop...:-)

Speier does the job. Jays pitching can add a shutout of Anaheim next to that shutout of Boston on their 2004 resumé.

good game. got the win, and carlos didn't hit a dinger.

Yep, first 1-0 win of the season, Loveshack. I searched for "W 1-0" on the Jays' ESPN schedule page (both first and second halves) and found nothing.

Very happy with the win tonight. It feels good.

I'm sure the East Coasters are happy since the game went by really quickly.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
That was some in-Speiering pitching tonight. Deglado's "stealth" double holds up.

I would the say the answer to my headline question is an emphatic YES!

It's not often a team's #3 hitter only gets 3 PA in a game. Kennedy's caught stealing in the 8th left Vlad on deck when the game ended.

Amazing also that the only run of the game scored on a routine fly to rightcentre which neither outfielder ran in for.

I'm sure the East Coasters are happy since the game went by really quickly.
- meh. school doesn't start till monday.

MLB Gameday:
Bottom 9th B:3 S:2 O:3
Darin Erstad lines out softly to left fielder Reed Johnson.

Bottom 9th B:3 S:2 O:3
Darin Erstad lines out softly to left fielder Reed Johnson.

So nice, he did it twice.

Woah Miller is a man of few words ... looked like he wanted out of that interview asap

anyone know how to do italics when posting a comment?

or quoting a previous comment i should say.

meh. school doesn't start till monday.

Sure, for you maybe! I got some chem reading to do somehow between now and 8:30.

Italics: Use <.i> at the beginning and <./i> at the end, but do not use the periods.

Example: <.i>This is not in italics.<./i> However, this is.

Well, good night all. Good game and I get to fall asleep with Wilner yelling "Rob PIZZO!!" the last thing I hear before I go.

how hard do those guys throw, on average?

Rob, are you talking about a Midget house league, or a rec league with older guys? Either way, expect to see 70-mph fastballs and an assortment of off-speed stuff. If someone hits 75, he'll probably be a lights-out closer; I doubt they could do that for more than an inning or two.

Really, the difference between recreational ball and Midget Rep or the best HS players has more to do with command than velocity; you can be a terrific starter without topping 80 if you hit your spots and change speeds well. Someone like Kris Dabrowiecki from our school, who paints corners at 90, is truly exceptional -- that's why he was drafted.

#23808 Posted 09/08/2004 09:44 PM by Jim:

I wagered a nifty $50 with my local internet bookmaker that these Jays would win and the teams would total more then 9.5 runs. I'm giddy with anticipation.

Is there any possible baseball / pop culture combination that would be more unholy than the combo of the Rally Monkey and the Macarena? I don't think that video that the Angels used before the bottom of the 9th was not suitable for a general audience.

It's great to see the Jays play spoiler against the Angels, especially with Boston smacking the A's around. The only other opportunities for this are the two remaining series against the Yankees. Hopefully the Jays can take some of those games, too.

lol, i'll figuire it out

Pedro's back.

Yes, the one-time supposed Blue Jay target for various offers including Halladay and Vernon Wells, Pedro Astacio is back in the majors, pitching for the Red Sox.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
Is there any possible baseball / pop culture combination that would be more unholy than the combo of the Rally Monkey and the Macarena?

6-4-3, my guide for questions like this is to ask:

What would Ty Cobb do if he saw this?

I think there'd be a Rally Monkey head mounted over TC's fireplace after that atrocity.

Does sportsnet show jays in an hour even after these late night west coast games, or should i stop waiting up?

Last night it was only on Sportsnet Pacific, at 6am eastern. Not sure if the same applies for tonight.

Whatever became of Scott Carson? He used to give great insight on this page...

Miller : Simply exceptional, I wish I hadn't had to go to bed after the sixth.

Italics : Put <i> in front of the text you want in italics, and then </i> after it.

Thanks for the info, Coach. (It would probably be a rec league - I'm sure it's not Midget.) Much appreciated.