Ted Lilly, Toronto's best starting pitcher this season, opposes Kevin Brown. Vernon Wells DHs and bats third and Chris Woodward starts at shortstop. Gregg Zaun catches again, despite a day game after a night game; Kevin Cash hasn't gotten a start since August 22 and has a grand total of 23 at-bats this month.
2 pitches, 2 outs.
Lilly is working on history here.
Lilly is working on history here.
And there goes the chance for the 27 pitch complete game.
Nice. Good, efficient start by Lilly.
2 pitches, 2 outs.
2 pitches, 2 outs.
I wonder what is the fewest number of pitches ever used to get a complete game? Anyone know?
Thank god that final Curve to Sheffield was up in the zone, I think the hitters are going to be looking for that much later in the count and sitting on it.
http://www.mathesond.mindsay.com
I know Greg Maddux spun a 78-pitch complete game a few years back (I'm thinking '95 or so, I'm pretty sure I was living in Whistler at the time)
I know Greg Maddux spun a 78-pitch complete game a few years back (I'm thinking '95 or so, I'm pretty sure I was living in Whistler at the time)
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/boxscore/08101944.shtml
58, Loveshack. COMN.
58, Loveshack. COMN.
The Cheer Club Drum made an appearance on YES!
There was a sign on it, but I couldn't read it.
There was a sign on it, but I couldn't read it.
Wow that's amazing. I certainly never would have guessed it being that low. An avg of 2 pitches per batter is sick.
http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
Also, no walks or stikeouts in that game. Things from that ERA are so hard to compare to the modern game.
Also, no walks or stikeouts in that game. Things from that ERA are so hard to compare to the modern game.
Wow.... One more reason Williams shouldn't be playing CF anymore... terrible terrible throw from Shallow Center.
I can hear that drum from Ireland.
My friggin' TV is shaking. Just a little louder and they'll drown out Faulds and Cerutti.
My friggin' TV is shaking. Just a little louder and they'll drown out Faulds and Cerutti.
Sparky! Cmon guys we need all the runs we can get here, we dont want another let down.
It's not too bad out here, Chuck. It's just right:)
Are the Blue Jays actually hitting with RISP today? And two outs? somebody pinch me.
Losing a bit of control on the curve here in the 4th. And now he throws straight into A-Rod's foot and there's two on with one out.
It looks like Lilly has started to overthrow for some reason after relatively breezing early.
It looks like Lilly has started to overthrow for some reason after relatively breezing early.
Bad pitch selection by Lilly. Coming down and in hard on a batter with two strikes. Has to be low and away or up and in but down and in and you give up those extra base hits. I still don't understand why he doesn't throw his change more with two strikes. He tried to Posada but threw a poor one that missed a foot outside and was therefore wasted.
Now he has another 0-2 count here on Sierra. Lets see if he finishes him off or wastes too many pitches again. Wow...Sierra just chased one outside and at his helmet. That's the worst swing I've seen from anyone in a while.
Now he has another 0-2 count here on Sierra. Lets see if he finishes him off or wastes too many pitches again. Wow...Sierra just chased one outside and at his helmet. That's the worst swing I've seen from anyone in a while.
Long time blue jay fan living in NYC. In watching the game on YES today, I was really struck by how much cheering there was when the Yankees scored. Do Yankee fans outnumber Jays fans in attendance?
D-Rock
Usually, they do. It's unfortunate. I think today it's a little more in the Jays favour, although it's hard to determine for sure.
Usually, they do. It's unfortunate. I think today it's a little more in the Jays favour, although it's hard to determine for sure.
D-Rock: I dont know if they outnumber, but there's definitely alot of them. There's always alot of Yankee and RedSox fans in attendance when either team plays here.
Wow that is a TOUGH pitch for Jeter to take and Lilly to not get the benifit of the call.
There will always be one set of rules for the Yankees and another for the rest of the league. It's just how it goes.
I've been up to Toronto for several Yankee and Red Sox games in the past, but don't ever recall hearing so much cheering for an opposing team. I was wondering if it was YES being selective with the audio levels. After hearing applause for Sheffield's strikeout, I'm guessing its not quite as bad as it sounded.
Good job for Lilly to keep with the Fastball there. The Curve got Sheff out the last 2 times, so logic says he was looking for it.
The Red Sox series was embarrassing to listen to, because there was definitely more Sox noise than Jays noise.
Hinske better start to watch his language! I'd hate to lose the field-level mike just because Eric keeps turning the air blue after every ground ball :)
The YES broadcasters were saying that the reason Rios doesn't have more RBIs is that he doesn't know AL pitchers that well yet. That seems patently ridiculous. Is there a reason? Poor hitting w/ men on base or a lack of opportunity?
Who would have ever thought that the O-dog would have a higher batting average than Wells.
Off-topic, but why is there a doubleheader in Seattle today? One would think that a retractable-roof stadium would never need a twinbill.
Maybe it's me. I turn on the tube, it's 4-3 for the Jays and Lilly is pitching to Posada. Walk, Walk, Single, Homer. 7-4 Spankees.
Sigh
I guess I should take one for the team and not watch anymore.
Sigh
I guess I should take one for the team and not watch anymore.
D-Rock: Id say it's more due to lack of opportunity than anything else. Rios has been mostly batting leadoff or towards the bottom of the order so far.
he YES broadcasters were saying that the reason Rios doesn't have more RBIs is that he doesn't know AL pitchers that well yet.
Looking at his splits would probably be more informative than YES's nonsense. He's batting .229 with men in scoring position, .316 otherwise. And of course his 1 homerun doesn't help much either.
Looking at his splits would probably be more informative than YES's nonsense. He's batting .229 with men in scoring position, .316 otherwise. And of course his 1 homerun doesn't help much either.
Wow, how can you guys keep on watching this day after day? We're just lying down for the Yankees. For one thing, I'm not surprised because whenever the Yankees are down, the umpires shorten up their strike zone and crowd the opposing pitcher, this has been happening for the last 3 or 4 years.
Do you guys wonder why Jeter was struggling at the beginning of the season? It was because opposing pitchers were getting the call on those pitchers where he leans back like somebody clotheslined him or he leans forward.
Do you guys wonder why Jeter was struggling at the beginning of the season? It was because opposing pitchers were getting the call on those pitchers where he leans back like somebody clotheslined him or he leans forward.
Be interesting to see how Frasor reponds to the new pen alignment. Good luck kid!
Thanks for the insights on Rios. It's tough to watch games on YES, especially when you're rooting against the Yankees. Actually the quality of insight has been a little better than usual today -- normally the commentary is absolutely terrible.
Now you can hear the crowd chanting “Let's Go Yankees�. It just isn't right....
Now you can hear the crowd chanting “Let's Go Yankees�. It just isn't right....
Good thing this isn't a JP postgame day. I wouldn't want to be near him right now.
I think the insight on YES is actually pretty good. Singleton is fair and informative, and Girardi is better than I thought he would be. Michael Kay on the other hand....I hate his "sssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeee ya" home run call. Ugh.
Speaking of ugh, the Jays are pitiful. It's like watching lambs go to slaughter when they face the Yankees.
You've got some work to go, Mr. Ricciardi.
Speaking of ugh, the Jays are pitiful. It's like watching lambs go to slaughter when they face the Yankees.
You've got some work to go, Mr. Ricciardi.
I'm thinking at this point, the YES guys are more tolerable than Faulds' happiness with the Yankees home runs. :(
You've got some work to go, Mr. Ricciardi.
He also has some work to "do", but he's got some players that need to go, so you're almost right. ;)
Speaking of players that need to go, I absolutely hate Kerry Ligtenburg.
He also has some work to "do", but he's got some players that need to go, so you're almost right. ;)
Speaking of players that need to go, I absolutely hate Kerry Ligtenburg.
What is going on? Can they not retire one batter in this lineup not named Cairo?
Hehehe - Tom Cheek joked that Menechino is going to pitch.
First pitch, single. He's already better than Ligtenberg.
This is even better than my season-long wish to see Dave Berg pitch.
This almost makes the game worthwhile, seeing Mighty Mouse work from the stretch.
I just got home turned on the TV and FREAKIN Frankie is pitching. Why is pitching? Is everybody else in the bullpen injured?
Hasn't walked anyone either. Better than Maurer.
Is everybody else in the bullpen injured?
The Jays should be so lucky.
They're not injured, they just suck...
The Jays should be so lucky.
They're not injured, they just suck...
At least he is throwing strikes... I can't stop laughing... this is too good.
Ron, find a play-by-play of the ninth. It'll explain why he was pitching.
NY YANKEES 9TH
-D Maurer relieved J Frasor.
-Top of the 9th inning
-G Sheffield doubled to deep left center.
-A Rodriguez singled to left, G Sheffield to third.
-J Posada walked, A Rodriguez to second.
-H Matsui walked, G Sheffield scored, A Rodriguez to third, J Posada to second.
-K Ligtenberg relieved D Maurer.
-R Sierra homered to center, A Rodriguez, J Posada and H Matsui scored.
-T Clark homered to center.
-M Cairo struck out swinging.
-B Williams singled to right.
-D Jeter singled to center, B Williams to second.
-G Sheffield doubled to deep center, B Williams and D Jeter scored, G Sheffield thrown out at third.
-A Rodriguez homered to right.
-F Menechino relieved K Ligtenberg.
-J Posada singled to left.
-H Matsui singled to right, J Posada to second.
-R Sierra lined out to shortstop.
9 runs, 10 hits, 0 errors
NY Yankees 18, Toronto 6
NY YANKEES 9TH
-D Maurer relieved J Frasor.
-Top of the 9th inning
-G Sheffield doubled to deep left center.
-A Rodriguez singled to left, G Sheffield to third.
-J Posada walked, A Rodriguez to second.
-H Matsui walked, G Sheffield scored, A Rodriguez to third, J Posada to second.
-K Ligtenberg relieved D Maurer.
-R Sierra homered to center, A Rodriguez, J Posada and H Matsui scored.
-T Clark homered to center.
-M Cairo struck out swinging.
-B Williams singled to right.
-D Jeter singled to center, B Williams to second.
-G Sheffield doubled to deep center, B Williams and D Jeter scored, G Sheffield thrown out at third.
-A Rodriguez homered to right.
-F Menechino relieved K Ligtenberg.
-J Posada singled to left.
-H Matsui singled to right, J Posada to second.
-R Sierra lined out to shortstop.
9 runs, 10 hits, 0 errors
NY Yankees 18, Toronto 6
And this is going to be a save for Rivera.
Easiest. Save. Ever.
Is everybody else in the bullpen injured?
Ligtenburg, Maurer, Chulk, Frasor already used.
Douglass in California -- personal problems.
Frederick worked yesterday.
So if they didn't use Menechino, Frederick would be unavailable for tomorrow's game.
Easiest. Save. Ever.
Is everybody else in the bullpen injured?
Ligtenburg, Maurer, Chulk, Frasor already used.
Douglass in California -- personal problems.
Frederick worked yesterday.
So if they didn't use Menechino, Frederick would be unavailable for tomorrow's game.
I guess the Jays won't win by that many runs. At least we found a new closer for next year.
Heh heh... "Ruben Sierra versus Frank Menechino, lifetime 0-for-0." Oh well, gotta laugh at games like this -- pretty impressive that the Jays had gone 20 years without having a non-pitcher pitch (Rick Leach, 1984).
Wow - our pitcher is the best offensive player on the team.
What is this, high school?
What is this, high school?
Where is Speier?
And Mauer has been awful, his ERA is 54.00
And Mauer has been awful, his ERA is 54.00
The Jays need to find some bullpen help. Isn't Todd Zeile available?
Where is Speier?
Oh yeah, forgot Speier. Probably worked yesterday, and you gotta save some guys for Sunday's game.
Oh yeah, forgot Speier. Probably worked yesterday, and you gotta save some guys for Sunday's game.
Is everybody else in the bullpen injured?
The Jays should be so lucky.
They're not injured, they just suck...
lol. couldn't of put it better myself
The Jays should be so lucky.
They're not injured, they just suck...
lol. couldn't of put it better myself
How is that going to look on Lightenberg's Resume?
Getting Yanked in Favor of Menechino.
Getting Yanked in Favor of Menechino.
The Jays will never contend for a playoff spot if they play like they have this season vs. the Yanks and Sox.
vs. Yanks
2 wins 10 loses
vs. Red Sox
5 wins 14 loses
a combined
7 wins 24 loses
isn't going to cut it.
vs. Yanks
2 wins 10 loses
vs. Red Sox
5 wins 14 loses
a combined
7 wins 24 loses
isn't going to cut it.
If Ricciardi doesn't assemble a real bullpen next season, I'm calling for his head. I'm tired of this garbage. Three straight years of a bullpen mess. Fix it, damnit! Spare me the lack of money excuse, is every half way respectable reliever making big money? No. So find some!!
[/rant]
Menechino >>>>>> Ligterfluid
[/rant]
Menechino >>>>>> Ligterfluid
Kerry Ligtenburg's Resume:
2003: Pitcher.
2004: Sucked ass for the Blue Jays so much, they brought in a second baseman to pitch.
2005-present: Owner and operator of "Kerry's Convenience Store" in Rapid City, South Dakota.
2003: Pitcher.
2004: Sucked ass for the Blue Jays so much, they brought in a second baseman to pitch.
2005-present: Owner and operator of "Kerry's Convenience Store" in Rapid City, South Dakota.
Oh my, the only "good" thing about today's game was the spectacle of what was probably the worst first half of a 9th inning played at home by the Jays. Or any other team in recent memory. I was laughing so hard I startled my cat.
don't worry. when ligtenberg gets traded to oakland for arthur rhodes or mark redman in the off-season, he'll turn his career around.
I stopped watching after 9-6; I can't believe what I'm reading about Menechino. How does that come to be? Does he warm up in the bullpen? Does he offer his services to Gibbons while watcing LIghterfluid? "Hey Gibby, why don't you put me in there?"
It sure looked funny at bluejays.com to see the pictures of Mariano Rivera vs. Frank Menechino.
It sure looked funny at bluejays.com to see the pictures of Mariano Rivera vs. Frank Menechino.
If Ricciardi doesn't assemble a real bullpen next season, I'm calling for his head. I'm tired of this garbage. Three straight years of a bullpen mess. Fix it, damnit! Spare me the lack of money excuse, is every half way respectable reliever making big money? No. So find some!!
[/rant]
Well some would say lack of money is a real excuse. JP doesn't have the money to go out and sign all the good bullpen guys out there and it's nearly impossible to fluke out and land a couple of good arms for a cheap price.
With JP's limited budget he needs to find 2 HR hitters because he can even work on the bullpen situation.
Unless there's a big increase in the budget I expect JP to once again go with Rule 5 guys, minor players, or career journymen to patch up the bullpen.
For the Jays to contend they need the whole Yanks and Red Sox team to get season ending injuries and also hope Lopez, Tejada, Crawford, Huff, and Rocco get injured.
[/rant]
Well some would say lack of money is a real excuse. JP doesn't have the money to go out and sign all the good bullpen guys out there and it's nearly impossible to fluke out and land a couple of good arms for a cheap price.
With JP's limited budget he needs to find 2 HR hitters because he can even work on the bullpen situation.
Unless there's a big increase in the budget I expect JP to once again go with Rule 5 guys, minor players, or career journymen to patch up the bullpen.
For the Jays to contend they need the whole Yanks and Red Sox team to get season ending injuries and also hope Lopez, Tejada, Crawford, Huff, and Rocco get injured.
Is this another case of "big crowd syndrome" for our Blue Jays? It seems they have, in recent history, had a knack to play the suckiest games in front of the largest crowds.
For the Jays to contend they need the whole Yanks and Red Sox team to get season ending injuries and also hope Lopez, Tejada, Crawford, Huff, and Rocco get injured.
For starters, yeah.
For starters, yeah.
It seems they have, in recent history, had a knack to play the suckiest games in front of the largest crowds.
This is a baffling but all-too-real phenomenon. It's been going on since 02, as far as I can tell. In fairness, the 02 and 04 Jays have just plaing sucked, so really the only mystery is the 03 team.
This is a baffling but all-too-real phenomenon. It's been going on since 02, as far as I can tell. In fairness, the 02 and 04 Jays have just plaing sucked, so really the only mystery is the 03 team.
I will be the bearer of good news today.
Rosario's line today at AA
7ip 0 h 2bb 8K
Rosario's line today at AA
7ip 0 h 2bb 8K
What?!? Menechino was pitching!? Crap, now Im sorry I turned the game off.
Hope they show it on the highlights later.
Hope they show it on the highlights later.
Which Cheer Club member called in? It was "Mike from Toronto", but I don't know some of the guys by their real names. He mentioned 518 though, so he had to be a Bauxite.
Ricciardi must be in a wretched mood after this one. The elite of the AL East is making the Jays look like a AAA club.
Another piece of news I found depressing this week was the Baseball America report on teams like Boston and Seattle drafting 1st-round talent in the later rounds, and then signing them to large contracts. Yet another advantage the larger-market teams have over Toronto.
On a different note--Rosario's stellar start is fine news, I agree.
Another piece of news I found depressing this week was the Baseball America report on teams like Boston and Seattle drafting 1st-round talent in the later rounds, and then signing them to large contracts. Yet another advantage the larger-market teams have over Toronto.
On a different note--Rosario's stellar start is fine news, I agree.
Tomorrow's bullpen must look something like this now:
Justin Speier
Kevin Frederick
Dave Berg
Joe Breeden
Kent Williams
Jack Layton
Justin Speier
Kevin Frederick
Dave Berg
Joe Breeden
Kent Williams
Jack Layton
It seems they have, in recent history, had a knack to play the suckiest games in front of the largest crowds.
Actually, this goes back a litle further, I think to 1999 - you might recall they got hot and were actually making a run at the wild card - had a big home series against the Redf Sox and had their biggest game day walk-up crows in years. There was actually a Blue Jays buzz in town...
And naturally they got their brains beaten it, badly.
They've been responding to the home crowd the same way ever since.
a combined
7 wins 24 loses
isn't going to cut it.
Well, duh.
(Sorry, Ron. I'm just irritable.)
And this is going to be a save for Rivera.
Easiest. Save. Ever.
What's really wild is Rivera actually pitched to the tying run. And got him out, of course. He's Mariano Rivera...
Does he offer his services to Gibbons while watcing LIghterfluid? "Hey Gibby, why don't you put me in there?"
"Put me in coach, I'm ready to play..."
Actually, it worked for in hockey. That's how I became a goalie. We were losing 7-0 after two periods, and I was sucking as bad as the rest of my team. I volunteered to play in net, and shut out the other guys for the third period. And I was a goalie ever after...
I was ten years old, of course.
Actually, this goes back a litle further, I think to 1999 - you might recall they got hot and were actually making a run at the wild card - had a big home series against the Redf Sox and had their biggest game day walk-up crows in years. There was actually a Blue Jays buzz in town...
And naturally they got their brains beaten it, badly.
They've been responding to the home crowd the same way ever since.
a combined
7 wins 24 loses
isn't going to cut it.
Well, duh.
(Sorry, Ron. I'm just irritable.)
And this is going to be a save for Rivera.
Easiest. Save. Ever.
What's really wild is Rivera actually pitched to the tying run. And got him out, of course. He's Mariano Rivera...
Does he offer his services to Gibbons while watcing LIghterfluid? "Hey Gibby, why don't you put me in there?"
"Put me in coach, I'm ready to play..."
Actually, it worked for in hockey. That's how I became a goalie. We were losing 7-0 after two periods, and I was sucking as bad as the rest of my team. I volunteered to play in net, and shut out the other guys for the third period. And I was a goalie ever after...
I was ten years old, of course.
walk-up crows
Surely everyone remembers the walk-up crows?
Surely everyone remembers the walk-up crows?
The AL East's tremendous gap in spending has been well documented, but the implications are rarely painted in practical terms. They were painfully clear on Saturday, when the Yankees stepped up to take batting practice.
New York's first group -- Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield and Lofton -- makes more money than Toronto's entire roster. Just counting base salaries for the 2004 season, that quartet makes $56.7 million. The Blue Jays, by contrast, make a combined total of less than $51 million.
- From Spencer Fordin on the Jays Official Site, dated today
After reading this and watching the game today on TV, I have a request of the powers that be at Da Box
Can one of you draft an Open Letter to Ted Rogers pointing out why an immediate payroll increase to at least League average (I believe around $65 million) is necessary.
I have seen some comment around the Box from time to time about this, but if all the arguments were put in a well reasoned and well crafted form, along with the no doubt hundreds of comments that would be added, and then forwarded to ownership, it might stand a chance of making an impression.
Batters Box has become known to Jays personnel and media people. Maybe its time to see if the Box has some clout.
New York's first group -- Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield and Lofton -- makes more money than Toronto's entire roster. Just counting base salaries for the 2004 season, that quartet makes $56.7 million. The Blue Jays, by contrast, make a combined total of less than $51 million.
- From Spencer Fordin on the Jays Official Site, dated today
After reading this and watching the game today on TV, I have a request of the powers that be at Da Box
Can one of you draft an Open Letter to Ted Rogers pointing out why an immediate payroll increase to at least League average (I believe around $65 million) is necessary.
I have seen some comment around the Box from time to time about this, but if all the arguments were put in a well reasoned and well crafted form, along with the no doubt hundreds of comments that would be added, and then forwarded to ownership, it might stand a chance of making an impression.
Batters Box has become known to Jays personnel and media people. Maybe its time to see if the Box has some clout.
15 million dollars is a lot of clout, but a letter would at least be well-intentioned.
http://www.immune26.tv
When JP signed Adams, Lighterfluid and Speier I was delighted. Three professional bullpen guys. It didn't work.
This year JP should do the same, try to find three more, who like the three above, look like reasonable signings. With Speier and one or two of the three new ones being OK we'd have a fighting chance.
If we fall in s@it often enough you'd think at least once we'd end smelling like a rose.
If not: JP I'm available if you need me.
When JP signed Adams, Lighterfluid and Speier I was delighted. Three professional bullpen guys. It didn't work.
This year JP should do the same, try to find three more, who like the three above, look like reasonable signings. With Speier and one or two of the three new ones being OK we'd have a fighting chance.
If we fall in s@it often enough you'd think at least once we'd end smelling like a rose.
If not: JP I'm available if you need me.
Heh, I wasn't listening to the radio -- what did Mike say?
If Ricciardi doesn't assemble a real bullpen next season, I'm calling for his head. I'm tired of this garbage.
Remember, the plan is not about free agents, the plan is about drafting and developing. Free agents are what we do in the meantime. Yeah, it sucks for us right now, but it's the plan.
For the Jays to contend they need the whole Yanks and Red Sox team to get season ending injuries and also hope Lopez, Tejada, Crawford, Huff, and Rocco get injured.
Nah, we just have to wait for all our young guys to develop -- in a couple of years, the Yankees will be a team of elderly men, and we'll have a strong, young, hungry team.
Seeing Menechino pitch was probably the high point of this season for me. ;)
If Ricciardi doesn't assemble a real bullpen next season, I'm calling for his head. I'm tired of this garbage.
Remember, the plan is not about free agents, the plan is about drafting and developing. Free agents are what we do in the meantime. Yeah, it sucks for us right now, but it's the plan.
For the Jays to contend they need the whole Yanks and Red Sox team to get season ending injuries and also hope Lopez, Tejada, Crawford, Huff, and Rocco get injured.
Nah, we just have to wait for all our young guys to develop -- in a couple of years, the Yankees will be a team of elderly men, and we'll have a strong, young, hungry team.
Seeing Menechino pitch was probably the high point of this season for me. ;)
I can't believe Menechino pitched! I'm almost sorry we left early.
By the way, what happened for the retro caps? We arrived around 3, no hats at the gate... and we didn't see a single person with a retro cap (but we did see lots with brand new grey caps - did they give those out instead?)
By the way, what happened for the retro caps? We arrived around 3, no hats at the gate... and we didn't see a single person with a retro cap (but we did see lots with brand new grey caps - did they give those out instead?)
Nah, we just have to wait for all our young guys to develop -- in a couple of years, the Yankees will be a team of elderly men, and we'll have a strong, young, hungry team.
Sure some Yanks will be old but believe me George isn't going to field a team of 33+ yr olds unless they were producing at a high level. George isn't a dummy, he's going to sign younger FA's to surround the older guys. I think the first guy in his off-season shopping list is Carlos Beltran.
And as a Yanks fan I love George as an owner. Instead of pocketing all the money for profits he pumps in a lot of it back into the team. He flipped out when the Yanks didn't win the WS last season. He accepts nothing but the championship. Speaking from a fans perspective, George is the best owner in MLB.
Sure some Yanks will be old but believe me George isn't going to field a team of 33+ yr olds unless they were producing at a high level. George isn't a dummy, he's going to sign younger FA's to surround the older guys. I think the first guy in his off-season shopping list is Carlos Beltran.
And as a Yanks fan I love George as an owner. Instead of pocketing all the money for profits he pumps in a lot of it back into the team. He flipped out when the Yanks didn't win the WS last season. He accepts nothing but the championship. Speaking from a fans perspective, George is the best owner in MLB.
Tomorrow's bullpen must look something like this now:
Justin Speier
Kevin Frederick
Dave Berg
Joe Breeden
Kent Williams
Jack Layton
Everyone knows you've got to have a lefty or two in the pen.:)
I wasn't "Mike from Toronto" on Wilner's show today. I can't speak for any of the other Mikes here.
Justin Speier
Kevin Frederick
Dave Berg
Joe Breeden
Kent Williams
Jack Layton
Everyone knows you've got to have a lefty or two in the pen.:)
I wasn't "Mike from Toronto" on Wilner's show today. I can't speak for any of the other Mikes here.
Heh, I wasn't listening to the radio -- what did Mike say?
Something like "If you don't like having Yankee fans cheer all the time, come and join us. We're in 518." I still don't know who it was...that is, which poster.
Everyone knows you've got to have a lefty or two in the pen.:)
Actually, I believe Jack Layton is lefthanded...does anyone know for sure?
Something like "If you don't like having Yankee fans cheer all the time, come and join us. We're in 518." I still don't know who it was...that is, which poster.
Everyone knows you've got to have a lefty or two in the pen.:)
Actually, I believe Jack Layton is lefthanded...does anyone know for sure?
The retro caps did not arrive from the manufacturer, so they gave us all new caps instead.
I think the Yankee problem is that there are only so many free agents out there -- they have nothing to trade, after all.
I agree that from the perspective of the fans in New York that Steinbrenner must be a wonderful owner.
I think the Yankee problem is that there are only so many free agents out there -- they have nothing to trade, after all.
I agree that from the perspective of the fans in New York that Steinbrenner must be a wonderful owner.
He accepts nothing but the championship. Speaking from a fans perspective, George is the best owner in MLB.
Yes he is, and insistence on going for the championship every single year keeps everyone else in the organization... uh, on their toes?
So is there no help whatsoever for the rest of us?
Of course there is. I still think that you can't actually build a championship team by assembling a bunch of free agents. Neither of the great Yankee periods of the Steinbrenner era (the 1976-1981 teams and the 1994-current) were built by free agency. They were polished off and taken over the top by the relentless buying of the best free agents available.
By the 1970s was primarily a trade built-team. The entire infield - Chambliss, Randolph, Dent, Nettles - were acquired in trades. Two of the outfielders - Rivers and Piniella - came in trades. Another outfielder (Roy White) and the catcher (Thurman Munson) came up through the system. The pitchers? Ed Figueroa, Sparky Lyle, Dick Tidrow, Mike Torrez came by trade, Ron Guidry came up through the system. Catfish Hunter and Rich Gossage were the major free agent pitchers (they would eventually add Tommy John, and they did sign Don Gullett, Andy Messersmith, and Rawly Eastwick...)
The heart of the current team mostly came up through the system and via trade. Jorge Posada, Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Alfonso Soriano, Andy Pettitte, and Mariano Rivera were developed in the system. They traded for people like Tino Martinez, Scott Brosius, Paul O'Neill, Chuck Knoblauch. They also traded for people no one else could afford, like Alex Rodriguez and Kevin Brown this year, and they traded for other players whose current teams could no longer afford them (John Wetteland, Javier Vazquez. Knoblauch probably belongs here as well.)
But eventually, the heart of the team leaves and all that remains are the pieces you brought in to finish off the team. And it doesn't quite work, and you keep bringing in more and more of those guys. And you end up paying through the nose for what a player has done in the past for other teams, rather than what they can do for you.
This is what happened to the Yankees in the late 1980s ands early 1990s, and I think we can see it happening again in a year or two.
How many players on the current team can reasonably be expected to improve? I can't think of one.
How many can be expected to maintain their current level of performance for the next three years? Alex Rodriguez, sure. Javier Vazquez, why not? Got a chance, anyway. Derek Jeter? Maybe. Maybe. I doubt it, but maybe.
How many can be expected to decline over the next two or three years? Jorge Posada is a 33 year old catcher. Jason Giambi. Miguel Cairo. Gary Sheffield. Bernie Williams. Ruben Sierra. Hideki Matsui. John Olerud and Tony Clark. Kevin Brown. Mike Mussina. Orlando Hernandez. Jon Lieber. Paul Quantrill. Tom Gordon. Mariano Rivera.
Sure half of these guys won't even be around in two years. But that is the point.
Of course you bring in Carlos Beltran. But you've got a room with 25 light bulbs and they're all burning out at the same time. Its too many light bulbs to replace at once. The room is going to get dark.
Yes he is, and insistence on going for the championship every single year keeps everyone else in the organization... uh, on their toes?
So is there no help whatsoever for the rest of us?
Of course there is. I still think that you can't actually build a championship team by assembling a bunch of free agents. Neither of the great Yankee periods of the Steinbrenner era (the 1976-1981 teams and the 1994-current) were built by free agency. They were polished off and taken over the top by the relentless buying of the best free agents available.
By the 1970s was primarily a trade built-team. The entire infield - Chambliss, Randolph, Dent, Nettles - were acquired in trades. Two of the outfielders - Rivers and Piniella - came in trades. Another outfielder (Roy White) and the catcher (Thurman Munson) came up through the system. The pitchers? Ed Figueroa, Sparky Lyle, Dick Tidrow, Mike Torrez came by trade, Ron Guidry came up through the system. Catfish Hunter and Rich Gossage were the major free agent pitchers (they would eventually add Tommy John, and they did sign Don Gullett, Andy Messersmith, and Rawly Eastwick...)
The heart of the current team mostly came up through the system and via trade. Jorge Posada, Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Alfonso Soriano, Andy Pettitte, and Mariano Rivera were developed in the system. They traded for people like Tino Martinez, Scott Brosius, Paul O'Neill, Chuck Knoblauch. They also traded for people no one else could afford, like Alex Rodriguez and Kevin Brown this year, and they traded for other players whose current teams could no longer afford them (John Wetteland, Javier Vazquez. Knoblauch probably belongs here as well.)
But eventually, the heart of the team leaves and all that remains are the pieces you brought in to finish off the team. And it doesn't quite work, and you keep bringing in more and more of those guys. And you end up paying through the nose for what a player has done in the past for other teams, rather than what they can do for you.
This is what happened to the Yankees in the late 1980s ands early 1990s, and I think we can see it happening again in a year or two.
How many players on the current team can reasonably be expected to improve? I can't think of one.
How many can be expected to maintain their current level of performance for the next three years? Alex Rodriguez, sure. Javier Vazquez, why not? Got a chance, anyway. Derek Jeter? Maybe. Maybe. I doubt it, but maybe.
How many can be expected to decline over the next two or three years? Jorge Posada is a 33 year old catcher. Jason Giambi. Miguel Cairo. Gary Sheffield. Bernie Williams. Ruben Sierra. Hideki Matsui. John Olerud and Tony Clark. Kevin Brown. Mike Mussina. Orlando Hernandez. Jon Lieber. Paul Quantrill. Tom Gordon. Mariano Rivera.
Sure half of these guys won't even be around in two years. But that is the point.
Of course you bring in Carlos Beltran. But you've got a room with 25 light bulbs and they're all burning out at the same time. Its too many light bulbs to replace at once. The room is going to get dark.
Good analogy at the end, but let's turn off the italics.
Drummer Mike posts as bird droppings. That call could have been him -- a Yankee fan threw a beer at him during the game because they didn't like the drum. They came from another section to do it, too.
BTW, Magpie, it was a common typo that caused the italic thing. You forgot the i in your /i tag.
If I had a million dollars for each time I did that, I could buy the Jays. ;)
If I had a million dollars for each time I did that, I could buy the Jays. ;)
Ugh...Yankee fans. At least we won -- oh, right.
If I had a million dollars for each time I did that, I could buy the Jays. ;)
If I had a million dollars for each time I did that, I could buy the Yankees. ;)
If I had a million dollars for each time I did that, I could buy the Yankees. ;)
john gibbons is a peice of crap manager and should be fired he gave up on the jays i feel when they were down 10-6 and put in fucking frank menichino at pitcher i was laughing in disbalief hes worse than buck marinez!
Looking back at that 1970s Yankee team... was that a great bunch of trades that Gabe Paul made or what?
Traded Fritz Peterson and three other pitchers to Cleveland and got back Chris Chambliss and Dick Tidrow.
Traded Doc Medich to Pittsburgh for Ken Brett AND Dock Ellis AND Willie Randolph.
Traded John Ellis, Jerry Kenney and a couple of warm bodies to Cleveland for Graig Nettles.
Traded Oscar Gamble and Lamarr Hoyt to Chicago for Bucky Dent.
Traded Lindy McDaniel to Kansas City for Lou Piniella.
Traded Bobby Bonds to California for Mickey Rivers and Ed Figueroa.
Traded Danny Cater to Boston for Sparky Lyle.
Lamarr Hoyt eventually had a few decent years as a starter before he got too fat to waddle out to the mound. Otherwise, he traded away a whole lot of nothing and got back a whole lot.
I would think that's one of the more impressive runs of trading ever.
Traded Fritz Peterson and three other pitchers to Cleveland and got back Chris Chambliss and Dick Tidrow.
Traded Doc Medich to Pittsburgh for Ken Brett AND Dock Ellis AND Willie Randolph.
Traded John Ellis, Jerry Kenney and a couple of warm bodies to Cleveland for Graig Nettles.
Traded Oscar Gamble and Lamarr Hoyt to Chicago for Bucky Dent.
Traded Lindy McDaniel to Kansas City for Lou Piniella.
Traded Bobby Bonds to California for Mickey Rivers and Ed Figueroa.
Traded Danny Cater to Boston for Sparky Lyle.
Lamarr Hoyt eventually had a few decent years as a starter before he got too fat to waddle out to the mound. Otherwise, he traded away a whole lot of nothing and got back a whole lot.
I would think that's one of the more impressive runs of trading ever.
No, adam. Menechino came in to pitch when the score was 18-6. When it was 10-6, he brought in Kerry Ligtenberg.
Well, we can all decide which decision constitutes giving up...
Well, we can all decide which decision constitutes giving up...
I was looking back through the play-by-play and I noticed that "Dave Berg hit for Carlos Delgado." I had already turned off the game at this point, so I didn't know this until now.
One word: Why?
One word: Why?
When it was 10-6, he brought in Kerry Ligtenberg.
And two pitches later, it was 15-6. :(
And two pitches later, it was 15-6. :(
Sorry, make that four pitches.
Three posts in a row. I need to shut up...
Three posts in a row. I need to shut up...
There was nothing wrong with Carlos, if that's what you were worried about.
It was just a, oh whatever, let's get Dave an at bat. It's not like Carlos can hit a 12 run homer... :)
It was just a, oh whatever, let's get Dave an at bat. It's not like Carlos can hit a 12 run homer... :)
john gibbons is a peice of crap manager and should be fired he gave up on the jays i feel when they were down 10-6 and put in fucking frank menichino at pitcher
Um, I thought Menechino came in when the score was 17-6? They needed one more out in the entire ballgame and Ligtenberg had just gone HR, HR, single, single, double, HR. That's not giving up, that's realizing that not even a 2B would pitch as bad as Ligtenberg just did.
Um, I thought Menechino came in when the score was 17-6? They needed one more out in the entire ballgame and Ligtenberg had just gone HR, HR, single, single, double, HR. That's not giving up, that's realizing that not even a 2B would pitch as bad as Ligtenberg just did.
what a depressing game.
Loved hearing the drum throughout the game, even heard some comments from yanks fans saying, "what is this cleveland?"
This was the fist game that i have been to that i left before it was over. I just could not take the overwhelling chearing by the evil empire.
Loved hearing the drum throughout the game, even heard some comments from yanks fans saying, "what is this cleveland?"
This was the fist game that i have been to that i left before it was over. I just could not take the overwhelling chearing by the evil empire.
I'm very interested to see where the Yanks are in 3 years when a lot of their players will be in their 30's and up. Of course they could make trades or add FA's along the way to get younger.
Either way as a Yanks fan, championships don't mean as much anymore because I've been spoiled. This may sound crazy but winning the championship almost every year gets boring. It becomes routine and dull.
I will feel much more joy when the Jays just make the playoffs. I still remember Carter's bomb to win the championship but that was over a decade ago and a ceratin amount of championship luster has worn off since then.
Either way as a Yanks fan, championships don't mean as much anymore because I've been spoiled. This may sound crazy but winning the championship almost every year gets boring. It becomes routine and dull.
I will feel much more joy when the Jays just make the playoffs. I still remember Carter's bomb to win the championship but that was over a decade ago and a ceratin amount of championship luster has worn off since then.
This may sound crazy but winning the championship almost every year gets boring. It becomes routine and dull.
Wow. I can't imagine that it would be boring being a Yankee fan right now, given that
1) You haven't won the World Series since the Clinton administration, and
2) Both the Red Sox and Athletics consider you to be their mortal enemy, and
3) The Angels, who totally humiliated you two years ago, might also make the playoffs, and
4) The Cardinals look way good
I think that the Yankees are the best team in baseball, but I'll be shocked if this postseason is routine. Even the Twins will be dangerous if they can start that Santana guy twice in a five-game series.
Wow. I can't imagine that it would be boring being a Yankee fan right now, given that
1) You haven't won the World Series since the Clinton administration, and
2) Both the Red Sox and Athletics consider you to be their mortal enemy, and
3) The Angels, who totally humiliated you two years ago, might also make the playoffs, and
4) The Cardinals look way good
I think that the Yankees are the best team in baseball, but I'll be shocked if this postseason is routine. Even the Twins will be dangerous if they can start that Santana guy twice in a five-game series.
Thanks for the hat info. That really annoyed me: the only reason that I went to the game was for a free retro hat (I went to 2 in the Boston series, and I'm seeing Seattle and Oakland this week), so with the quality of the game, the quality of the fans (I saw more people fighting / ejected this game than I have during any other season), and the traffic on the way home, I'm really frustrated about it. Ah well, at least I get Ichiro (who just passed Wade Boggs, Lou Gehrig, Stan Musial, Pete Rose, etc for most hits from age 27 - 30) and two Oakland games this week.
And this is going to be a save for Rivera.
Yep, his 45th of the year, too. Mo has always been very aware of the record books -- he insisted that Torre use him on the last day of the season a few years ago so he could get his 50th save (which cost me a roto championship, incidentally, no, not still bitter).
I think he has his sights set on Mr. Thigpen's long-statnding single-season record of 56, and I think he'll get it.
Speaking of the record books, props to Ruben Sierra and his 300th career home run! Imagine the odds you could've gotten on that ever happening, about three or four years ago. ANd the equally long odds you could've gotten 15 years ago that it would take this long!
The Yankees can now field a team with three 300-homer guys (Sheff, A-Rod and Sierra) and two more with 250-280 (Bernie, Giambi); Posada and Clark will both get to 200 before too long, and there's the little matter of Japan's all-time single-season home run hitter being around, too. Scary.
Yep, his 45th of the year, too. Mo has always been very aware of the record books -- he insisted that Torre use him on the last day of the season a few years ago so he could get his 50th save (which cost me a roto championship, incidentally, no, not still bitter).
I think he has his sights set on Mr. Thigpen's long-statnding single-season record of 56, and I think he'll get it.
Speaking of the record books, props to Ruben Sierra and his 300th career home run! Imagine the odds you could've gotten on that ever happening, about three or four years ago. ANd the equally long odds you could've gotten 15 years ago that it would take this long!
The Yankees can now field a team with three 300-homer guys (Sheff, A-Rod and Sierra) and two more with 250-280 (Bernie, Giambi); Posada and Clark will both get to 200 before too long, and there's the little matter of Japan's all-time single-season home run hitter being around, too. Scary.
Useless Information:
Ruben Sierra's career as a Blue Jay.
14 G, 48 AB, 4 R, 10 H, 1 HR, 5 RBI, .208 avg..250 OBP .354 .604 OPS
Ruben Sierra's career as a Blue Jay.
14 G, 48 AB, 4 R, 10 H, 1 HR, 5 RBI, .208 avg..250 OBP .354 .604 OPS
Mick, I don't care how great Rivera is, or how much props to give to Sierra, or how many homers the Yankees have.
The entire New York team can go forth and multiply.
The entire New York team can go forth and multiply.
...not even a 2B would pitch as bad as Ligtenberg just did.
Yes, this was another of Kerry's special games. I wrote about this a couple of weeks back, so let's do an update.
Ligtenberg's year has been strange, to say the least. He has now had seven bad games. He's made 52 appearances, and seven bad ones out of 52 is actually quite OK for a relief pitcher.
My definition of bad outing for a reliever is very simple - any time he gives up two runs or more.
What's weird about Ligtenberg is how incredibly, stupifyingly, mind-bogglingly BAD his bad outing have been.
Here they are:
His BAD games: (May 14, 21; July 10, 27; August 5, 12, 28)
G IPT H R ER BB K ERA W-L-SV
7 1.2 21 27 26 8 3 140.40 0-4-0
The rest of the time:
G IPT H R ER BB K ERA W-L-SV
45 49.1 46 10 10 16 42 1.84 1-1-3
This is simply strange - I looked at some similar pitchers (guys with similar workloads and ERAs) - they generally had anywhere from 7-10 "bad games" as well, but they didn't give up 26 earned runs in 1.2 innings in those games. Their "bad game" ERA would generally be from 20.00 to 45.00.
Ya know, like Dave Maurer's entire season.
Like I said about Ligtenberg before:
... guys pitch worse in their losses and bad games, but still... doesn't it seem as if there have been days when his manager asked him to answer the bell and he should not have answered. He seems like the kind of guy who will not say no, but maybe he should consider it...
I keep coming back to his health and his personality. I think he's been pitching through pain, and he fully expects to be able to pitch through the pain. He can't always do it.
He's enough of a pro to know he shouldn't try to pitch through some injuries. He lost an entire season already.
He's probably hurting all the time, but most of the time he's been able to cope and have some success. Remember, in his other 45 outings, his ERA is 1.84. He hasn't pitched that well, but obviously he's been OK. But some nights he just can't manage it.
And maybe he just doesn't know that until he's on the mound trying to get a ML hitter out.
Yes, this was another of Kerry's special games. I wrote about this a couple of weeks back, so let's do an update.
Ligtenberg's year has been strange, to say the least. He has now had seven bad games. He's made 52 appearances, and seven bad ones out of 52 is actually quite OK for a relief pitcher.
My definition of bad outing for a reliever is very simple - any time he gives up two runs or more.
What's weird about Ligtenberg is how incredibly, stupifyingly, mind-bogglingly BAD his bad outing have been.
Here they are:
His BAD games: (May 14, 21; July 10, 27; August 5, 12, 28)
G IPT H R ER BB K ERA W-L-SV
7 1.2 21 27 26 8 3 140.40 0-4-0
The rest of the time:
G IPT H R ER BB K ERA W-L-SV
45 49.1 46 10 10 16 42 1.84 1-1-3
This is simply strange - I looked at some similar pitchers (guys with similar workloads and ERAs) - they generally had anywhere from 7-10 "bad games" as well, but they didn't give up 26 earned runs in 1.2 innings in those games. Their "bad game" ERA would generally be from 20.00 to 45.00.
Ya know, like Dave Maurer's entire season.
Like I said about Ligtenberg before:
... guys pitch worse in their losses and bad games, but still... doesn't it seem as if there have been days when his manager asked him to answer the bell and he should not have answered. He seems like the kind of guy who will not say no, but maybe he should consider it...
I keep coming back to his health and his personality. I think he's been pitching through pain, and he fully expects to be able to pitch through the pain. He can't always do it.
He's enough of a pro to know he shouldn't try to pitch through some injuries. He lost an entire season already.
He's probably hurting all the time, but most of the time he's been able to cope and have some success. Remember, in his other 45 outings, his ERA is 1.84. He hasn't pitched that well, but obviously he's been OK. But some nights he just can't manage it.
And maybe he just doesn't know that until he's on the mound trying to get a ML hitter out.
they didn't give up 26 earned runs in 1.2 innings in those games. Their "bad game" ERA would generally be from 20.00 to 45.00.
Ya know, like Dave Maurer's entire season.
Which is what? 1.2 innings? Against the Yankees?
SAAAAAMPLE SIIIIIIIIZE!!!!!
Ya know, like Dave Maurer's entire season.
Which is what? 1.2 innings? Against the Yankees?
SAAAAAMPLE SIIIIIIIIZE!!!!!
There was a sign on it, but I couldn't read it.
The sign says "The O-Drum".
The sign says "The O-Drum".
I've never heard anything about Ligtenberg being hurt.
About those Ligtenberg runs, 27 allowed in 1.2 innings - let's also think about all those inherited runners who got home as well. As part of a reliever's job is to prevent inherited runners from scoring there should really be a stat showing the actual runs that crossed the plate while a certain pitcher was on the mound.
You know what would be an even better stat? Inherited runners prevented from scoring. So, Mike Timlin coming in with the bases load, nobody out, would have 3 "cookies". No - wait - the inherited runners on base should be multiplied by the number of outs recorded - so Mike Timlin would have gotten 9 "cookies" for that job. If he comes in, records one out, then gives up a grand slam, that would be 3 "cookies" - if he got two outs before the grand slam, 6 "cookies", etc. That would be a good way to judge relievers in the clutch. Terry Adams and Kerry Ligtenberg have just been brutal at collecting cookies. I think Justin Speier may have an impressive amount. Given that we all know saves are soft, "cookies" might just be the best way to weigh a reliever's balls.
I was at the game tonight, and I booed as loud as I could when Litenberg came out. I yelled "trip and die Litenberg!" The last game I was at that he played he walked in the tying run and then gave up a grand slam.
What bugs me is on Sportsnet Sarudi always stands up for him. I say we all boo him off the field his next outing.
Sarudi keeps reminding us how he got out the top 3 yankees with the bases loaded. "And now, Cy Young award winner.... Kerry Litenberg!"
What bugs me is on Sportsnet Sarudi always stands up for him. I say we all boo him off the field his next outing.
Sarudi keeps reminding us how he got out the top 3 yankees with the bases loaded. "And now, Cy Young award winner.... Kerry Litenberg!"
His BAD games: (May 14, 21; July 10, 27; August 5, 12, 28)
Y'know it's too bad we just couldnt find a simple formula to figure out what his bad days are, and then just not use him on those days. Then he'd be one of the better relievers in all baseball. Problem is you never know if today is a good day or bad day.
Y'know it's too bad we just couldnt find a simple formula to figure out what his bad days are, and then just not use him on those days. Then he'd be one of the better relievers in all baseball. Problem is you never know if today is a good day or bad day.
You take 7 bad games off any reliver's record and they would all have an ERA under 3.00
Why all the hatred for Ligtenberg? Cripes there was no way the Bluejays were going to win once the Yanks tied it up against Theodore. So it turned from a lose to a route. Big deal already.
Some here have given pretty good analyses to show he has not been as bad as the numbers would suggest. I tend to agree with that analyses. Lightenberg has been a very very good pitcher throughout his career. Relievers even the very good ones tend to blow hot and cold from time to time throughout their career. Kerry happens to be not very good this year but not so bad that he deserves the kind of rage thats been thrown up here. He never did anything to anybody family or friends did he?
Some here have given pretty good analyses to show he has not been as bad as the numbers would suggest. I tend to agree with that analyses. Lightenberg has been a very very good pitcher throughout his career. Relievers even the very good ones tend to blow hot and cold from time to time throughout their career. Kerry happens to be not very good this year but not so bad that he deserves the kind of rage thats been thrown up here. He never did anything to anybody family or friends did he?
http://timgueguen.blogspot.com
What a disaster.
Did anyone watching the game on tv notice the fellow with the white hat that sat behind home plate for most of the game? I swear the guy was Takeshi Kitano, the Japanese actor/director/media personality.
What a disaster.
Did anyone watching the game on tv notice the fellow with the white hat that sat behind home plate for most of the game? I swear the guy was Takeshi Kitano, the Japanese actor/director/media personality.
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/stats/tor_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=236427
Frank Menechino's lifetime ERA is 0.00 :)
Sadly, this outing only brought his career ERA down to 27.00. He gave up 4 runs in 1 IP while pitching for the A's in 2000.
Frank Menechino's lifetime ERA is 0.00 :)
Sadly, this outing only brought his career ERA down to 27.00. He gave up 4 runs in 1 IP while pitching for the A's in 2000.
I was in rightfield, just a section down from the bullpen (being my first game in those seats since the managerial change, I noticed how much less the phone rang with Tosca gone. Less chances to make "Let the machine get it" type jokes, too, which saddened me greatly.)
We were surrounded by Yankee fans, but they were pretty nice. I was wearing a Sox cap and drew a lot of taunting from some Yankee fans, but it was in good fun. "Oh, there he is. Mr. 1918." I got the guy in Puffer's Lounge good. "Yeah, I'd feel good about my team going into the playoffs when my best starter at the moment is a washed up Cuban." Zing! They'll never see it coming when the playoff collapse happens.
Anyway, I knew that a 4-0 lead would evaporate eventually, but serving up a meatball to Tony Clark wasn't the way I wanted to see the game put away. It was pretty much over when it went to 7-4. When they rallied against Q, I still didn't hold out hope. I mean, they still had to score 3 off Rivera, and that's not happening unless this is the day his arm comes flying off. I predict the ALCS for that happening. I'm sure Maurer coming in for the 9th seemed like a good idea in terms of resting the actual useful guys, because what's the worst that can happen? My mom was wondering why this guy had an ERA of 27.00 coming in. She soon found out. The worst happened. The 9th was so horrible at the start, culminating in the based loaded walk. It reminded me of why I hated playing outfield in softball when I was a kid when certain pitchers are pitching. Then, Kerrysene made his presence known, and I thought, what with his inherited runner follies, that at least we'd see a double to add some excitment. From the crack of Sierra's bat I laughed uproariously. I laughed even harder when Tony Clark sent the next pitch off Windows as well. The Yankee fans populating... well, everywhere, were in a frenzy. It was scary to see firsthand. Don't these people want the game to end so they can go home? I know I did. I mean, Sportsnet had the Sox/Tigers game on.
Then came Sheffield's double. I saw him lift his leg and yelled TAG HIM!!! Hinske did, and I'm not exactly sure how, but Sheff fell over in pain. Then, I don't know what came over me but I was yelling HURT HIM!!! YES!!! I was more animal than man. And I actually respect the hell out of Sheff. For the season he's having, for the pain he plays through, for the positive attitude he demonstrates and tells everyone that he left his malcontent label behind in LA (I'll play third if you want me to, Boss) and here I was screaming for his hide. I felt bad, but it sure did temper the Yankee elation, and besides, taking the extra base in a rout is a baseball sin. The Yankee fans around me agreed that he had it coming. Well, the ones who weren't in stunned silence.
Chino coming in to pitch was good fun. I'm sure he's upset that Mark Grace has a better career WHIP than him. I also taunted the Yankee hitters who couldn't take an infielder deep as well as tauning Kerrysene for the fact that Chino was doing a better job. I was also yelling for Gomez to get in some work. I guess I should've yelled for Berg. That would've worked better.
Anyway, going into the belly of the beast which is Yankee fans was much more pleasant experience this time around. Too bad the game result was so awful.
We were surrounded by Yankee fans, but they were pretty nice. I was wearing a Sox cap and drew a lot of taunting from some Yankee fans, but it was in good fun. "Oh, there he is. Mr. 1918." I got the guy in Puffer's Lounge good. "Yeah, I'd feel good about my team going into the playoffs when my best starter at the moment is a washed up Cuban." Zing! They'll never see it coming when the playoff collapse happens.
Anyway, I knew that a 4-0 lead would evaporate eventually, but serving up a meatball to Tony Clark wasn't the way I wanted to see the game put away. It was pretty much over when it went to 7-4. When they rallied against Q, I still didn't hold out hope. I mean, they still had to score 3 off Rivera, and that's not happening unless this is the day his arm comes flying off. I predict the ALCS for that happening. I'm sure Maurer coming in for the 9th seemed like a good idea in terms of resting the actual useful guys, because what's the worst that can happen? My mom was wondering why this guy had an ERA of 27.00 coming in. She soon found out. The worst happened. The 9th was so horrible at the start, culminating in the based loaded walk. It reminded me of why I hated playing outfield in softball when I was a kid when certain pitchers are pitching. Then, Kerrysene made his presence known, and I thought, what with his inherited runner follies, that at least we'd see a double to add some excitment. From the crack of Sierra's bat I laughed uproariously. I laughed even harder when Tony Clark sent the next pitch off Windows as well. The Yankee fans populating... well, everywhere, were in a frenzy. It was scary to see firsthand. Don't these people want the game to end so they can go home? I know I did. I mean, Sportsnet had the Sox/Tigers game on.
Then came Sheffield's double. I saw him lift his leg and yelled TAG HIM!!! Hinske did, and I'm not exactly sure how, but Sheff fell over in pain. Then, I don't know what came over me but I was yelling HURT HIM!!! YES!!! I was more animal than man. And I actually respect the hell out of Sheff. For the season he's having, for the pain he plays through, for the positive attitude he demonstrates and tells everyone that he left his malcontent label behind in LA (I'll play third if you want me to, Boss) and here I was screaming for his hide. I felt bad, but it sure did temper the Yankee elation, and besides, taking the extra base in a rout is a baseball sin. The Yankee fans around me agreed that he had it coming. Well, the ones who weren't in stunned silence.
Chino coming in to pitch was good fun. I'm sure he's upset that Mark Grace has a better career WHIP than him. I also taunted the Yankee hitters who couldn't take an infielder deep as well as tauning Kerrysene for the fact that Chino was doing a better job. I was also yelling for Gomez to get in some work. I guess I should've yelled for Berg. That would've worked better.
Anyway, going into the belly of the beast which is Yankee fans was much more pleasant experience this time around. Too bad the game result was so awful.
btw, regarding the "27 pitches, 27 outs" jinx bestowed upon Theodore in the very first post, I too said the same thing. It reminded me of opening day when Doc struck out Sanchez and Vina to lead off. "We could see a 20 K game here! Or a no-hitter!" In short, we shouldn't do it.
I think the Yankee problem is that there are only so many free agents out there -- they have nothing to trade, after all.
Sadly enough there are enough FA's around. Hitterswise they just sign Beltran, Beltre and Carlos to have this lineup:
1B Calos
2B Jeter
SS A-Rod
3B Beltre
LF Matsui
CF Beltan
RF Sheffiled
DH Combo: Giambi/Williams
Decent lineup :-(
Sadly enough there are enough FA's around. Hitterswise they just sign Beltran, Beltre and Carlos to have this lineup:
1B Calos
2B Jeter
SS A-Rod
3B Beltre
LF Matsui
CF Beltan
RF Sheffiled
DH Combo: Giambi/Williams
Decent lineup :-(
btw, regarding the "27 pitches, 27 outs" jinx bestowed upon Theodore in the very first post, I too said the same thing.
Somehow I don't think that a post in this thread is going to change the course of a game.
Somehow I don't think that a post in this thread is going to change the course of a game.
The Yankees will never sign Delgado; they have Giambi, Clark, Lee and Olerud with Posada on thehorizon. Why sign another guy who can only play first or DH?
Jeter will never play 2B for this team. If he would consider moving from short AND if Torre would consider moving him, he already would have moved.
Beltran seems to love Houston and Beltre is damn near going to win an MVP in LA. Why would they move?
This is Yankee-hating paranoia at its abstolute worst. As soon as somsone becomes available, of course he will end up in pinstripes. Just like Randy Johnson did at the trading deadline.
Excuse me for introducing a dash of realism; of course, we're all just supposed to "go forth and multiply."
This is a VERY good team, that will make the playoffs and probably not win the World Series. If history holds true, the Yanks will recognize their primary problem is old and infirm starting pitching, and seeing a chance to fix that AND simultaneously rip out the heart of Red Sox Nation an SoSH, make a run at one Pedro Martinez. Mike Torrez finally won a ring in pinstripes. As did Roger Clemens. Pedro is next, though the Boss will wildly overpay for a fragile righty .
Jeter will never play 2B for this team. If he would consider moving from short AND if Torre would consider moving him, he already would have moved.
Beltran seems to love Houston and Beltre is damn near going to win an MVP in LA. Why would they move?
This is Yankee-hating paranoia at its abstolute worst. As soon as somsone becomes available, of course he will end up in pinstripes. Just like Randy Johnson did at the trading deadline.
Excuse me for introducing a dash of realism; of course, we're all just supposed to "go forth and multiply."
This is a VERY good team, that will make the playoffs and probably not win the World Series. If history holds true, the Yanks will recognize their primary problem is old and infirm starting pitching, and seeing a chance to fix that AND simultaneously rip out the heart of Red Sox Nation an SoSH, make a run at one Pedro Martinez. Mike Torrez finally won a ring in pinstripes. As did Roger Clemens. Pedro is next, though the Boss will wildly overpay for a fragile righty .
Excuse me for introducing a dash of realism; of course, we're all just supposed to "go forth and multiply."
I hope you weren't offended by my comment; I was in quite the bad mood when I posted it. It wasn't directed at you specifically, but I apologize if you took it that way.
Anyway, I think you're right re: Pedro. That would really hurt the Red Sox faithful, not to mention produce 13 columns from Bill Simmons within three days. ;)
I hope you weren't offended by my comment; I was in quite the bad mood when I posted it. It wasn't directed at you specifically, but I apologize if you took it that way.
Anyway, I think you're right re: Pedro. That would really hurt the Red Sox faithful, not to mention produce 13 columns from Bill Simmons within three days. ;)