Maybe the Jays should Breathe deeply, give Hinske the Pink slip and trade for gavin Floyd.

*sigh*. All we can do is wait for this time to end. Perhaps if we could play on the dark side of the moon we'd have a chance at some offence.

/I can't think of a way to work Pink Floyd into something even remotely on topic.

Griffin begins by saying that the media isn't always negative and that he'll list 6 things to help the Jays out, then uses all of his points to bash the Jays. Does anyone really believe that JP not admitting that Izturis is a major league shortstop is preventing people from buying tickets?

Anyways, i think we should come up with our own points on how to sell the team.

1 - I agree with Griffin, the Jays should announce a payroll increase. However, I doubt that's going to happen.

2 - They need to survey the fans and figure out if they actually want all that music and stuff.

3 - Give season's tickets to the Cheer Club, and promote sections 518, 517 and 519 as the places to be if you want to make noise. I'm serious about this. The more people you can get to create a fun atmosphere at the dome, the better off you'll be.

4 - In conjuction with that idea, return the $100 Season's pass, for the sections mentioned above.

I'm sure I've missed lots, any other suggestions?

The GM's private dissing of Toronto fans and media, when he travels south of the border, shows an ignorance of the facts.

This is from Griffin's column. Just a question, anyone know what he's referring to?

Some of the things he says arent bad, but his point #2 is laughable IMHO. [whine]"Quit bashing me on the FAN590"[/whine].

http://me.woot.net
Other than the Gagne myth, I found Griffin's article spot-on today. I especially liked the ending, in which he basically said "Give JP a chance."

Does anyone really believe that JP not admitting that Izturis is a major league shortstop is preventing people from buying tickets?

Cesar Izturis would guarantee the Skydome was sold out for every single game. People would come from miles around to see his golden glove and copper bat. He would do for fielding practice what Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa did for batting practice. He could also mastermind an effective marketing campaign and orchestrate the building of a new baseball-only stadium to be known as Cesar's Palace.

Or not. Seriously, are there that many GMs who actually come out and say "D'oh! What was I thinking with that trade? Geez, I'm such a dunce sometimes..." Is Billy Beane holding the A's back by not admitting that he probably shouldn't have given Jermaine Dye that contract?

I know that without the pass I'll be coming to 10-15 games instead of 60 next year. It's a budget thing. I'll be a dad in January, which means that I'll be really poor by baseball season. ;)

The parking issue is a good one -- restaurants around Toronto are offering $5 SkyDome parking coupons with a meal, so why can't the Jays offer those with the purchase of, say, lower deck seats? I realize that you can't really give away $20 parking with a $9 ticket or an $81 season's pass, but how about the nice seats? Or make it part of the FlexPack or season's tickets.

And what can they do about the concessions? I'd be okay with a high price if the food were better, and I'd be okay with the food if the price were much lower. Something has to change. Except the Edo sushi at section 120 -- it's great.

I don't mind when Griffin blasts the team by providing constructive suggestions: at least he's offering points for discussion. (And, to be fair, the team deserves to be blasted at this point.) It's a refreshing change from some of the columns produced by some baseball writers this year, which have been written as if the author is eligible for a bonus every time the Jays' average home attendance decreases by another thousand.

Anyway, my $.02 on the points he presented:

1. In retrospect, it looks like Izturis was rushed through the system too quickly. He's 24; if that's his real age, he's just starting to become old enough to develop as a hitter. And, to get to this point, the Dodgers had to endure two years of really awful hitting; recall that previous Dodger teams had even more trouble scoring runs than this year's Jays did. And the Jays had another shortstop prospect (F. Lopez) who was the same age and seemed to have considerably more offensive potential; I suspect that most GM's would have picked him over Izturis. It didn't work out, but these things happen. And Izturis's 2004 could well be a fluke (and isn't all that good anyway).

2. Hasn't the Prokopec over Gagne story been successfully exposed as an urban myth by now? Didn't somebody in LA state that Gagne was never put on the table?

3. Unless I'm mistaken, J.P. didn't sign Adams specifically to be the closer. He just went out and got a whole lot of relief pitchers, and hoped that one of them would work out. (I have my own theory, which is that imported pitchers virtually never succeed in a Toronto uniform unless they're megastars such as Clemens or Cone, but that's a whole 'nother story.)

4. Griffin has a point when he states that the Jays shouldn't be allowed to get away with thinking of themselves as a small-market team. But many of the 5 million people he's referring to would find it difficult to make it to a 7:05 weekday start at the Dome. Or, to put it another way: would you want to drive 60 to 100 kilometres to Toronto during rush hour? (Toronto urban sprawl has killed off minor hockey in places such as Newmarket precisely because the last thing people want to do after a long day of work is spend another hour fighting traffic to go watch a game somewhere. It's worth recalling that, when the Jays were in their heyday, urban sprawl wasn't anywhere near as bad as it is now.)

5. Why should J.P. state publicly that he makes mistakes? I assume that he is required to provide a full and frank accounting of his efforts to his employers (Godfrey, and the Rogers people), and that he does that. But no corporation head airs his dirty laundry in public - if a CEO of a software company, for example, publicly announced that he really screwed up when planning for release 4.3, his shareholders would, rightly, demand his head on a silver platter.

6. Which "Rogers media properties" is J.P. using as a platform to bash the media? I don't watch much TV other than baseball games, so I honestly don't know the answer to this one. It leads me to wonder whether this war of words is basically part of a general war between Canadian media empires.

7. And Griffin is right when he says that the Jays need to increase their payroll a bit. If they replace Delgado with some shiny trinkets (or Crozier - who looks like a serviceable prospect, but isn't exactly the second coming of Jim Thome), the Toronto fans are being shortchanged.

The extreme potential downside is that, if Rogers decides they don't want to support the team, there aren't a lot of potential buyers on the horizon who would - especially given the Jays/SkyDome situation, which is another ugly corporate battle we don't hear much about these days. (The Dome's ownership seems to be happy enough to use the Dome as a concert and convention venue, and doesn't seem to care much about the Jays. Can someone provide any info on this?) A couple of years ago, Toronto Life magazine predicted that the Jays would be out of Toronto by 2010 - while I'm not as pessimistic as that (there's money to be made in as large a market as this one), sometimes you've got to wonder.

Sorry, this has gone on rather long. Comments?

http://me.woot.net
Urban sprawl isn't impossible to deal with if you take public transportation like the GO train. Seriously, I'd wager that most of the people who drive in to a game could drive to a close GO train station, park for free, and take the train the rest of the way for a very similar cost to what they pay otherwise.

What I'd like to see is some sort of deal between the Jays and GO which means that people who are exiting a game don't have to rush for a train. Hold it until the end of the 9th inning, for example. My dad seems to remember GO doing this at one point; I don't know if it's true, but it's a good idea for SkyDome patrons.

Oh, and how about a GO family pass in the family ticket & food packages?

Which "Rogers media properties" is J.P. using as a platform to bash the media? I don't watch much TV other than baseball games, so I honestly don't know the answer to this one.

Sometimes on the FAN when JP is asked about a certain recent column or article he gets a bit testy. I remember one of his quotes specifically being "Richard (Griffin) doesnt know very much about baseball, I try not to pay attention to him". There are certain members of the media in this city that JP doesnt get along with very well. Apparently he's not allowed to do that.

Also apparently it's ok for them to constantly criticize him at every turn and fill their columns with nothing but negativity regarding the Jays. But it's not ok for him to come on the radio and tell them that they're wrong and they dont know what they're talking about when asked to comment.

Urban sprawl isn't impossible to deal with if you take public transportation like the GO train. Seriously, I'd wager that most of the people who drive in to a game could drive to a close GO train station, park for free, and take the train the rest of the way for a very similar cost to what they pay otherwise.

For sure, but they first have to get home from work, eat, get back in the car, get on the GO train, and walk from the GO train to the SkyDome. All by 7:05. It tires me out just thinking about all of that travelling. :-)

And, it must be said: many people work long past 5:00 these days. (I don't, as a rule, but my career path is not exactly one to be emulated. :-)) Somebody once joked that Toronto is the place where people say, "Thank God it's Monday."

37,774 points to Ryan Day for the lapidary phrase "golden glove and copper bat" and this nanoscale picture of copper-cobalt interaction:



I'd wager that most of the people who drive in to a game could drive to a close GO train station, park for free, and take the train the rest of the way for a very similar cost to what they pay otherwise.

Mmm... depends on how many people you're bringing, I think. If you're going by yourself, that's almost without doubt. The crowded trains on the way back after the game, though, can be a bit annoying.

I like griffins last point of increasing payroll by 10M dollars, but the timing is off. Lets plead poverty to Carlos, and see if he wants to help the team by signing below his value. Then any additional funds could really go a long way.

Oooh, pretty. It looks like a peacock.

As for Griffin's article, this

Quit using Rogers Media properties to bash mainstream media members who disagree with you. It's unseemly and does more to create a negative atmosphere with fans than does the original story, feature or column. Just report sports.

was what it was really, I think, about. The boo-birds are getting some of their own back; they don't like it. This is not surprising.

For what it's worth, I agree that it's unseemly. The responsibility lies on all sides to cool it and stop pretending that the media are the story.

The song was Time (not Breathe) from Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. I'll let Marc and Paul Z fight over the 100 million points and Pink Floyd picture:



RE: Jays selling more tickets. How about not airing ads where a guy trades his girlfriend to a scalper for a $9 ticket? Or how about something more appropriate for a Mother's Day promotion than a shower curtain. As my lovely significant other put it: (paraphrasing)

"What woman wants a sports related shower curtain as a gift? Plus the first thing that comes to mind when I hear the words Shower Curtain and Mother is Psycho. How is that a good image?"

At one time GO did have a train waiting until 15 minutes or so after a game was over. Maybe at that time the size of the crowds was worth it. Also, GO only runs along the Lakeshore line in Mississauga. That's a 15 minute drive for me. They used to run a train to Milton through northern Mississauga for Jays games. They no longer do that. That would be a 3 minute drive for me. If it's a night game I drive to the dome. I have a secret parking spot within a shorter distance than Union. On weekend day games the Lakeshore line train times are terrible. Either you show up 45 minutes early or 15 minutes late for the game. It's not the best situation but I don't think it prevents people from going to games.

http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00002283.shtml
Designate a few of the upper deck sections for the cheer club-minded, price the seats at $1 and call it "The Looney Bin."

And as someone who takes his little league team to a game every year, make an effort to reach out to young baseball fans.

A kids under-12 price for upper deck seats would be a start. Just get as many kids into the park as you can. "Pester Power" will net you a whole lot of concession revenue once the kids are inside and you can work on indoctrinating your next generation of Jays fans.

Griffin's best point is about "blaming" things on the payroll, and being a small-market team. What does it accomplish? Maybe it lowers expectations, but might it not do so permanently? Can the Jays ever compete with New York & Boston? Unless the team is actively trying to get out of the division, I don't think it's a good idea to suggest the team has a permanent roadblock to contention.

dave till wrote: 2. Hasn't the Prokopec over Gagne story been successfully exposed as an urban myth by now? Didn't somebody in LA state that Gagne was never put on the table?

i saw this posted on another blue jays board months ago, proably from an anti-ricciardi guy trying to cause a stir, but it had a purpose and really puts the whole gagne/prokpec trade in a shade of grey.

"I didn't want Gagne at all," Ricciardi said. "They were trying to get us to take him, but when I went in the room I just said: 'If you guys want to do this, I want Prokopec.' After we got him, I had five clubs call wanting to know if I'd spin him." - toronto sun, february 22 2002

"Nobody ever said, 'Hey, you want Gagné?' We didn't ask for him, either," Ricciardi said, adding: " . . . if it had happened, I'd be the first to admit it." - globe and mail, june 8 2004

the next time jp has a radio session i would love if someone brought this up to him. did he overtalk to hype up luke, rookie mistake? misquoted? lie? that is a contradiction on his part.

The responsibility lies on all sides to cool it and stop pretending that the media are the story.

Pace Marshall McLuhan.

I agree that Toronto is not a small market, not even close. Urban sprawl is a serious problem for all North American cities (you haven't seen sprawl until you've gone to Phoenix or LA). Attendance has been poor this season even for many weekend games when traffic is not a factor (and the Leafs don't seem to have trouble selling out weeknight games). Furthermore, for cable TV revenue purposes, the Blue Jay market is English-speaking Canada. That's way above average for MLB teams.

It's quite an interesting maneuver for a media columnist who constantly complains and bashes an organization to propose that the team stop complaining. At the same time, he is right to a degree. I don't find it very productive for JP to bash the media or fans. He'd be better off staying above the fray if possible.

On other issues-- I don't really miss anyone that JP has dealt away. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I do think that we blew it on Chris Carpenter vs. Pat Hentgen's risk/reward. But that really wouldn't have improved our hitting--- although a couple of starts against Hentgen--- ok, I won't go there.

Flat out though, this team is just horrendous. I don't see very many steps forward at all. Adding payroll to a team this bad seems to be exactly what Ash would have asked us to do. I thought the whole point was to add payroll when we were competitive. We aren't competitive. I'd love to see JP with extra cash to spend, particularly since it isn't my cash.

I think it's more fiscally responsible to give him the "Delgado money" and a little more flexibility to acquire a target or two if necessary.

I don't know if I'm really exaggerating here-- but so much seems to depend on what is done with Delgado and Delgado's money in terms of where I view the organization and the GM. If the team pockets the money, it loses my trust. If Delgado bolts and we don't come close to replacing the offensive numbers that we've come to expect and project from him, then I think JP is really fair game in terms of criticism. He has been aware of this situation and has had plenty of time to come up with Plan B.

I find it hard to argue that JP's system is working. It's much easier right now to say that it isn't. I've read a number of posts here talking about JP being given 5 years or 8 years before we can evaluate him. As a New Yorker, that notion is absurd to me-- as is the entire concept of patience.

But at the same time, how can you give JP anything other than an incomplete? He got stuck with terrible contracts. The slate really becomes clean when Delgado either re-signs or leaves and clears up the dollars. My window for evaluation opens up then.

Sorry for the ramble and rant.

http://aaronreynolds.ca
(and the Leafs don't seem to have trouble selling out weeknight games)

To be fair, a sellout at the ACC is considered bad attendance at SkyDome. What does it hold, 20,000 people?

http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00002283.shtml
The other point with the Gagne/Prokopec thing is that there's no way to tell if anyone here would have converted Gagne into uber-closer. Most forward-thinking front offices are aware that a decent starter is more valuable than a decent reliever, and since the Jays were trading for a starting pitcher, Gagne likely would have been placed in the rotation.

Had he been turned into a closer, Ricciardi's tendency, as with Beane, is to deal guys with impressive save totals before they become expensive, so Gagne may only have been a Jay for a season. Though JP probably could have landed some pretty sweet swag for a Gagne season.

If the jays don't replace delgado's power in the lineup they may be the worst team in baseball next year.

The only guys that can hit 20+ homers a year are wells and hinske, and I highly doubt hinske will regain his old form. Although the prospects are sure to develop, I don't think rios, gross, quiroz, and anyone else they have in the lineup will be able to accomplish this.

When looking at their dependence on the long ball, their average/below average pitching, and average defence, we could be in for a very long year. This is why I tend to agree with griffin's article, especially with increasing the payroll. If the jays don't bring in at least two really good power hitters (that will cost lots of money), we will take tampa bay's place in the standings for a while.

NFH: I'm not quite sure thats a fair comparison. Given the stature of the Leafs in TO, they could easily sell out a 35,000 to 40,000 seat arena night after night.

And they'd do it even if they sunk back down to the depths of the Ballard years.

For me, its the 705pm starts that are the killer. Well. It wouldnt be that much if I didnt work in Markham. But I do. So its a pain :(

In no particular order:

1. Overall I like Griffin's article, even though I don't understand the cryptic digs at Rogers media outlets and don't care to. Media stories on how sports figures (or other media personalities) don't play nice with the particular reporter are always covered as stories themselves...this has never resonated with me. I just can't get too mad at Pat Quinn, for example, when he's less than forthright with Damien Cox. Simply doesn't outrage me.

2. Maybe the commuting difficulties warrant a change back to a 7:35 start time on weeknights. Presumably, the switch was made to 7:05 to get people home earlier and thereby encourage people to come out. But if it's cutting out more people on the front end than it adds on the back end, the team should absolutely rethink it. The team should also lobby GO for a dedicated ballgame train, and then market it aggressively. MatO's predicament shouldn't be the case.

3. The commuting questions shouldn't trump Griffin's "large market" point. To my knowledge, every team in the majors starts their weeknight home games at 7:05, 7:10 or 7:15 local time. Every club draws fans from suburbs, and every club draws fans who ordinarily work later than 7:00.

4. Three sub-points regarding the payroll...

a) It was absolutely reasonable for JP to expect to compete on $50M this season. The offence looked intact, and the team's three best players had impeccable stay-healthy resumes. Who could have guessed that all three would suffer serious injuries?

b) That said, the goal of the organization is (or at least must be) to win. In other words, by avoiding unwise contracts and by identifying undervalued talent and developing young players well, you craft the best team possible -- all with the understanding that you don't have the financial resources of some of your competitors, and must therefore be creative.

The goal of the organization is not (or at least cannot be) to field the cheapest team palatable to your core fans, come what may on the field. The $50M payroll was a means to an end -- competing with limited resources. It cannot be the end itself. Maybe JP can build the team he wants for 2005 with $50M. But if he can feel significantly better about a $60M club, then that's what he should be given to work with.

c) I don't think the word "whining" is fair to describe the posture of Jays management. Still, I will go apoplectic on this very site if the Jays blame '04 attendance for a freeze or (shudder) reduction in payroll for '05. When the Jays faced adversity and injuries early, they cut bait rather than fished. I love the team and feel they deserved much better support, but the banged-up product they put on the field on many nights would not have attracted 50,000 screaming fans in any city in the world. In many ways, The Season From Hell hasn't been the Jays' fault. But The Attendance Figures From Hell similarly haven't entirely been the fans' fault.

There might be entirely legitimate reasons not to increase the payroll for next year, either because more money won't make a commensurate difference or because the plan is to invest more money in the targeted "competing years" of '06 and beyond.

But do not blame the fans. It has absolutely been their right to vote with their feet this season.

Marty York was full of good news today on the York Report:

1. Ernie Whitt will not be the 2005 manager for the Jays, but will most likely be a ML coach with the Jays (John Gibbons is the leading candidate to keep the job, though it seems the current coaching staff will be exorcised - especially Barnett.)

2. Rogers will most likely raise the payroll as they will probably lose just $6M this year.

3. JP is rock solid in Toronto.

4. They will make a serious contract offer to Delgado, of course nothing close to $18M.

5. There will be a big roster shakeup in the offseason. (I interpret this as Hinske and Woodward being dealt and the bringing in of some new bats.)

http://www.baseballamerica.com/cgi-bin/statsfindplayer.pl?player=howard,%20ry

If the jays don't replace delgado's power in the lineup they may be the worst team in baseball next year.

I keep wondering if/when the Jays will try to deal for Ryan Howard. After an initial adjustment period in AAA, he is once again pouding the crap out of the ball. COMN. BTW, that's not a misprint. He has 44 HR this year at AA/AAA.

He's blocked by Jim Thome until the end of the decade, and he's not athletic enough to play an OF slot.

What do people think it would take to land him? Would it be worth giving up someone like O-Dog, Batista, or Lilly to get him?

Does Marty York have any credibility on rumours?
My memories of him are all from when he was the reigning "Blue Jays reporter that hates the Jays and everything they do" that's now been taken by Richard Griffin.

Does Marty York have any credibility on rumours?

Since he left the Globe, for his baseball reporting he normally just repeats rumours that more credible journalists have been discussing for several days. I've seen most of Keith's points reported elsewhere; only #5 is somewhat new to me.

Urban sprawl isn't impossible to deal with if you take public transportation like the GO train. Seriously, I'd wager that most of the people who drive in to a game could drive to a close GO train station, park for free, and take the train the rest of the way for a very similar cost to what they pay otherwise.

I live in Bolton (Northwest of Toronto, 45 km from the Dome) and take my 8 & 9 year old sons to about 20 games a year. Believe me, the convenience of parking in the Star Section under the Dome, taking the elevator up to the 500's and then reversing it for the drive home is more than worth the $20.00 for the parking. In fact, last year when parking was usually $15.00 for most "non-premium" games, it was no more expensive than taking public transit.

A kids under-12 price for upper deck seats would be a start.

I pay $6.60 for the $9.00 seats for the kids. Because I had a 7-game flex-pack for the first half, I don't pay service charges on tickets bought for the rest of the season - I pay what it says on the ticket, $22.20 for the three of us.

As a New Yorker, that notion is absurd to me-- as is the entire concept of patience.

And that's why NY has the Knicks, Mets, and Rangers in the state they're in.

Pistol,

And that's why NY has the Knicks, Mets, and Rangers in the state they're in.

And the Yankees are competitive, having incredible attendance, a billion dollar cable deal, etc. Why leave them out of the equation?

I've followed this team since I was 5 years old, even though I live in New York. I've been patient for quite a long time now. To tack on 5-8 years for prospect development is insane. No one deserves that long a leash, particularly someone in his first GM job. Just my take.

5. There will be a big roster shakeup in the offseason. (I interpret this as Hinske and Woodward being dealt and the bringing in of some new bats.)

Getting rid of arguably the 2nd or 3rd worst 3B in baseball this year, and a .609 OPS SS is not a "big roster shakeup". It's the logical thing to do. I fully expect Woodward not to be back, but I see Hinske patrolling 3B for the next 3 years unfortunately. JP loves the guy. But I will have a new found respect for JP if he admits his mistake and moves Hinske.

If we do trade Hinske, it will be for an equally ugly deal. Maybe to LA for Kaz Ishii, who we can then move for a bat (to MIN for Restovich or to Boston for Millar, something along those lines). Just an idea. Ishii doesn't constitute as a bad contract necessarily, he has one more year at $3.2M and 2 team options after that according to bluemanc, but it could make some sense for all teams involved.

I don't know if Woodward will be dealt, but I'd guess he's going to be non-tendered at the end of the season. Just a hunch.

Scott Levy, why would LA want Hinske now?

I guess it wasn't a scam after all. I finally got my 2 free tix from that promotion for the game against Oakland, Friday, Sept/3/04. Since I live in Regina, I won't be attending, but I can mail you out the tix for free if you want...
Aisle:130A
Row:26
Seats:1 and 2
*Says $37 a pop on the ticket, not sure if that is true or not. Anyhow give me a holla if your interested
cchernenkoff@hotmail.com or marlins75c@yahoo.ca

Beltre is a FA, isn't he? I don't know who LA has in the minors who could take over, but considering the Oakland connection, DePodesta may have some interest in Hinske. Not something I'm expecting, just throwing out an idea.

I just don't know what to make of Hinske. I thought he had turned the corner: after the same miserable April and May that the whole club had, he hit .286/.371/.451 in June and topped that with a .317/.345/.490 in July. Then came August: .175/.224/.222 so far. His BB/AB rate has dropped each of his first three seasons and now stands at less than 1/10 for the first time. While he's first in fielding percentage, he's also dead last in zone rating and range factor (acknowledging the inherent problems with those measures, I doubt they're entirely misleading). There's no question that he's regressed badly from his sterling debut season.

I'm not sure what the Jays can do with him, but dealing him away for value seems very unlikely: he has three years and $12.9 million left on his contract, and he's at a career low ebb. And it hurts organizational morale to dump a former ROY and franchise cornerstone less than halfway through his deal. At just $3M next season, the Jays can afford to (and should) keep working on the adjustments needed to restore Hinske to his "on-base freak" status. But there is a lot of work to do in that direction.

Bud Selig has been extended to 2009. Let the flaming begin.

I think you'll see Beltre stay in LA, although he has shown in the past that his (and his agent's) loyalty is connected to the all mighty dollar.

Geez, the Dodgers downgrading from Adrian Beltre to Eric Hinske would be worse than the Jays downgrading from Delgado to Crozier.

I doubt the Dodgers, or anyone at that would even think of taking on Hinske's contract, let alone is poor production.

But I will have a new found respect for JP if he admits his mistake and moves Hinske

First of all, this is coming from someone who thinks hinske isn't a very good player. I think hinske gets into slumps, has problems with focus, and gets frusterated easily. That's besides his lack of speed and range. At times this year he was effective though ... before the all star break he was one of the best hitters on the roster (averaging .275/.348/.404).

But I believe he can hit, and it would be foolish to just dump him right now when his value is low. Unlike ligtenberg, who has been a huge disappointment, and a vastly overpaid one, hinske's contract was very small this year. If I were the gm I would wait until next year, and shop hinske when/if he gets on a hot streak. This way, you eliminate the last 2 years of his contract which are the most expensive while giving his future replacements (hill/tablado) time to adjust to the majors.

Of course, I would love for the jays to get their hands of beltre, but this wont happen.

Off topic: I was just watching Olympic softball (Canada vs. Australia, the red & white down 1-0 after 5). The game moves amazingly fast and though I realize there are several reasons for this (predominently that it isn't an advertisement built around a sport but vice versa) it also has alot to do with the hustle the players constantly show. Whether they walk (it's really a brisk jog) or strikeout (again, a brisk jog but back to the dugout) they don't doddle around. Even when they're unhappy about an at-bat, they show their displeasure in the process of moving quickly. It was a nice change of pace.

ya, I like to see the game most faster, the Bay chick pitching for Canada can really chuck the ball in, and she is pretty hot. Anyways, I digress. I hope Gibbons runs more than Tosca. I am sick of waiting for the 3 run HR every year

This week's SportsWeekly has a good column by Paul White on Jason and Lauren Bay. Unfortunately, i can't find a link to it, but the print version reads very well

I'll have to read that if it talks about Lauren Bay :)

Well, Canada's softball team lost 1-0. Depending on how the tiebreakers work, they may be able to finish fourth and make the playoffs. They are currently fifth, but their last game is against last place Italy, while Japan and China are tied for third but are playing against each other in the last game. I would guess if Japan loses and Canada wins, Canada gets fourth because we beat Japan earlier.

Then, it's all a question of how many games Lauren Bay can pitch before her arm falls off :)

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3363
The Jays are part of today's triple play at Prospectus, COMN, looking at the team's crappy offense this year.

Had much of their offensive foundering this season been attributable to a drastically lower singles rate, it would be easier to write off 2004 as an unlucky aberration. Instead, the Jays have been significantly worse in the areas that matter most: controlling the strike zone and hitting for power. Note especially the precipitous drop in the team’s home run rate and the declining doubles rate, which reflects the teamwide rise in groundball-to-flyball ratio.

After reading the BP Triple Play, I find it somewhat ironic that they conclude that the Jays may be built around run prevention, rather than run scoring - kinda like tha A's are - which is different from the public perception of quote Moneyball unquote philosophy. Maybe Beane's promotion of OBP and "walks'n'homers" was a smokescreen...

Maybe Beane's promotion of OBP and "walks'n'homers" was a smokescreen...

No, walks and homers are pretty clearly good, and OBP likewise critical. Billy Beane believes it as much as the rest.

It's just that he emphasizes offense less than defense. In other words, the resources are better spent buying range and strikeouts, rather than walks and homers.

It's a bit off topic, but relates to Pistol's earlier post about the Mets. Here's their line-up today:

Gerald Williams
McEwing
Zeile
Hidalgo
Cameron
Wright
Vance Wilson
Garcia
Benson

Eeeeewwww. If Kazmir turns out to be anything, it should be fun listening to talk radio around here.

I would guess if Japan loses and Canada wins, Canada gets fourth because we beat Japan earlier.

According to McLean, the US and Australia also have to beat Taiwan (I'm won't call it CT) and Greece, though odds of either not happening are pretty remote.

Japan would seem to have more motivation, since China seems to be in the medal round win or lose, but a win for China would mean avoiding the US in the semis.

Then, it's all a question of how many games Lauren Bay can pitch before her arm falls off :)

That was the worst part about losing 1-0. If it had been a blowout, they could've given her some rest, but with it so close, she had to stay in...

Is it just me, or does it seem odd that some players wear caps, some wear visors, and some wear nothing on their heads? Throw in the different length shorts, and it all seems kind of strange to me... that, and the hitters who "slap" at the ball, instead of actually swinging.

The slap hits bug me to no extent. I'm not sure why but it might be the constant drilling I got as a kid to keep my back foot (relatively) stationary.

...The uniforms also irk me a little. It seems plain dumb to play on a surface like that with shorts on -- the potential for injury is unnecessarily greater.

I've got a large patch of brand-new skin growing on my leg to confirm that shorts and dirt infields dont mix'n'match well. And in my case, I was actually wearing ball pants - its just that the slide managed to rip 'em up pretty good.

While watching the Canada/Taiwan game, I noticed that nobody was sliding at all. Is it because of the shorts issue, or is there some rule against it.

That 'power-slap' (as I heard someone on the CBC describe it) reminds me to no end of Ichiro!, who also has that wierd bail-out-and-run hack at the ball.

That slap reminds me of Happy Gilmore.

Today the players were sliding and diving. Many have a knee bad that allows the skin to stay on their knees but as anyone who's played baseball knows, the perfect slide isn't always possible.

And the Yankees are competitive, having incredible attendance, a billion dollar cable deal, etc. Why leave them out of the equation?


My point was that the short sightedness of those teams (Rangers, Knicks, Mets) is why they're so bad. And they continue to be bad because of this whole 'we're NY so we have to win now' mentality. And that's what's primarily holding them back, which I find amusing and ironic.

And really, the Yankees were the same way up until the early 90s. When they started to win was when their system started turning out players. Their success cycle is just longer than most due to having significant resources on hand. The Yankees haven't reached the point where they need to consider whether it's time to start over or try to remain competitive.

I completely get your point.

The Rangers and Knicks and Mets all make a ridiculous amount of money through playoff ticket sales. If I was an owner of one of those franchises, I'd be all over trying to get to that extra revenue stream too.

I'm sure there is a happy middle ground. I think that saying that it's not fair to evaluate a GM until his draft develops is crazy. At the same time, I give JP a pass on everything until Delgado's money is spent the way JP wants it to be. I think that's a fair position to take.

At some point, the big club has to be competitive.

You can always evaluate the draft vs. others taken in the same draft or players taken in the same position in previous years, like Moffatt's articles. While ultimately you can't judge the draft until you see where the players end up, you can still try.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1863097
If Kazmir turns out to be anything, it should be fun listening to talk radio around here.

This news won't help (COMN). Mets place Zambrano on DL.

"I can fix Zambrano in 15 minutes." -Rick Peterson

The Mets are idiots.

horrible trades for Mets because Benson is Free Agent in off-season and word has it that Zambrano would have been non-tendered in the off season as well, so the Mets could have signed both players during this winter and not traded any prospects

2002: 566 AB, .279-.365-.481, 24 HR, 38 2B, 77 BB, 0.56 BB/K, .201 ISO
2003: 449 AB, .243-.329-.437, 12 HR, 45 2B, 59 BB, 0.57 BB/K, .194 ISO
2004: 310 AB, .274-.346-.403, 08 HR, 14 2B, 35 BB, 0.58 BB/K, .129 ISO
***I used Hinske's first half numbers in 2004..

Second half numbers
2004: 127 AB, .197-.231-.315, 3 HR, 4 2B, 5 BB, 0.20 BB/K, .118 ISO

I think it is too early to give up on Hinske, as his 2nd half numbers are greatly destroying his overall numbers this year. He's been a .780-ish OPS hitter for his first 1325 major league at bats (it's down to .775 with his horrible second half). Are we really going to give up on him based on one bad half?

Before his second half numbers, his BB/K rate actually improved from his rookie year, but his ISO was way down. Could be an aberration. He had excellent doubles power his first 2 years, but it has completely vanished this year. Aberration?

Remember 1997, when the entire team was pretty much garbage offensively? It seemed like bad hitting was contagious. I think it could be a similar case this year.

Put Hinske in a better hitting lineup, or at least one that is hitting to its potential (we aren't), and I think he will be back to becoming an above average 3B. If he can hit somewhere between his 2002 and 2003 numbers, I wouldn't complain. He just has to find his doubles power again, which has completely run out on him this year.

As you guys put it, this is the "Season From Hell". Maybe this is a year where stats take a backseat. Everything that could go wrong has for the most part.

I've been looking closely at Hinske at bat the last week and I've concluded that it's possible that his lack of power this year is partly due to his hand position.

Most batters start with their hands back or high near their ear. When the pitch is released they start to move their hands down (if they hold them high) or get ready to bring them forward (if they hold them back).

Hinske starts with his hands near his chest. As the pitcher releases, he brings them back and then forward to swing in one motion. I think this creates a swing that is too short to hit for much power because the bat head doesn't have a chance to accelerate and there is less of a whip effect.

This may improve Hinske's ability to catch up to a fastball, but it won't help his power. Hinske's strikeout rate has also dropped, which may mean he's trying to become more of a medium power contact hitter. I don't think this is necessarily a good idea for someone like Hinske: we'll see.

In-context Jays stats since All-Star Break (including former Jays). Parental discretion advised.

Quote from RotoTimes
The New York Post reports that the Yankees are close to a deal that would send Esteban Loaiza (P) NYY to the Rangers for a prospect or two. The list of prospects the Yankees are looking at include Double-A second baseman Jason Bourgeois, Triple-A utilityman Ramon Navar, and Triple-A pitchers Ryan Snare and Sam Narron. Loaiza is 0-1 with a 6.75 ERA in three starts with the Yankees. In 17.1 innings he's allowed 23 hits and nine walks. The Rangers are expected to acquire him before his next scheduled start on Saturday.

Doesn't it feel good that the Yankees got burned by him too??
But they are going to get a couple prospects back... though I'm sure they'd rather have Contreras... I suppose they'll flip the prospects and some $$$ to a small market team for another veteran??

Who's available?? Is there an "Estes-Moyer"- type (Veteran reliable on a losing team) that is going to be an FA?

Trivia Question....

Who were
Matt Nokes, Don Mattingly, Pat Kelly, Charlie Hayes, Andy Stankiewicz, Mel Hall, Roberto Kelly, Danny Tartabull, Kevin Maas

Answer:

The Starting 9 for the 1992 New York Yankess...
How I long for the day...

Follow-up:

Their Starting Pitchers were.
Melido Perez, Scott Sanderson, Scott Kamieniecki, Greg Cadaret, Tim Leary, And Closer Steve Farr

Stephen T, that's a nicely presented report.

Sure wish I had made that trade posting in the "Trade Rumours" thread, though the idea is much more original in here... hehehe

Letter to the Editor (as sent)

Obviously Richard Griffin has it in for J.P. Riccardi, (I won't bother referencing specific links, neither of us has the bandwidth), and while I hardly care what the message is that the Star chooses to spend its ink on, his rants are becoming tiring.

Maybe Mr Griffin wanted to be the G.M. and got passed over??

Regardless, he should seriously consider dropping this whole Luke Prokepec or Eric Gagne example as proof of J.P.'s incompetence... The whole issue has been thoroughly debunked by both sides, and all he is doing is devouring his own credibility as an informed perspective.

See you in the funny pages

Daryn T***
(A fan, also disappointed, but with no dillusions that I could do better.)

http://www.canadasdebate.com
Remember 1997, when the entire team was pretty much garbage offensively? It seemed like bad hitting was contagious. I think it could be a similar case this year.

Good old Carlos Garcia. The only player I've ever seen booed during a between-innings throwaround. He dropped a ball tossed his way by Delgado and a bunch of us started giving it to him.

There are some disturbing parallels between that year and this one. Didn't they fire the hitting coach at the end of that season?

What I don't get is how the team's overall production has been declining steadily since May of last year, and nobody has looked at the hitting coach?